This is...endgame?

ADarklore · July 2015

I often scratch my head when I hear people talking about 'end game'... because what does that mean but, the END of the game. So people RUSH to reach... wait for it... the END OF THE GAME... and then complain, "we have nothing to do". The reality is, END GAME equals "nothing to do but wait around for the next DLC". This is what happens when you RUSH to reach a point where this is nothing. I think part of the problem is that so many players are single-player gamers and they're so used to reaching the end of a game and moving on, that MMOs are confusing for them. They expect that an MMO means that there is endless content, endless things to do... they don't comprehend that all this 'End Game' people talk about is literally, the end of content until something new comes out, THAT is the reality of 'End Game' on an MMO. So while waiting for new content, you are forced to either take a break or grind repeatable content in the meantime.

P3ZZL3 · July 2015

I for one have just reached the vegetable level with my new Templar.

coryevans_3b14_ESO · July 2015

biovitalb16_ESO wrote: »

uriangelub17_ESO wrote: »

So once you reach level cap, you need to start all over again and reach another level cap?

Level 50 was the first level cap. Then when we all hit level 50 and had nothing to do the devs panicked and made it Vr10..than panicked again and upped it to vr12...than panicked again and make it vr14. in the next major patch they are going to show us how they rushed together some content and upped it to vr16.

Ya, they're going to show how they "rushed" together imp city...which they've been rushing for over a year... (sarcasm)

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

"So I just hit vr1 and was pretty happy. Then I saw that I have to visit EVERY zone to level up to vr 13 or 14. Why?
What do I do after I hit vr13? Are there raids like Destiny?
I like this game, it helps me get my TES fix but I don't think I can quest this long.
Thanks lads/ladies "

No you dont have to visit every zone. You can do anything you like.

You do anything you like. You hit VR13, 14, you can go anywhere you want. At that point you should know by yourself what you want to do. What you like most in ESO and how to spent time in here.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · July 2015

Flaminir wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

Oh, boy! Another random person that wants to reach "the end" while still having 2/3 of fun in front of him?! Sweet Jesus.

Cadwells Silver/Gold are NOT fun.

They are cheap and lazy substitutes for real end-game content.

If I want to experience the main story arc of one of the other factions I'll go start a toon in that faction.

All The Best

Whilst I totally respect your choice on this & say just roll another character in that faction, you are totally dismissing the needs of a LOT of other players.

Most like having one main character.... one that they can do everything with, hence the name 'main'.

Now if they had started the game with no access to silver/gold as you suggest then I think most people would be very very annoyed that two thirds of the game content was locked out to them.

While I'm normally very loathe to mack this comparison I feel I have no choice here.

How many WoW Players have one toon that has played ALL Alliance content and then, without buying a faction change, played ALL Horde content?

Answer none.

And it is still the most successful MMORPG on the market.

My first job when I left school was as a repair and maintenance technician for office equipment (this is in the Pre-Ubiquitous-PC days when most companies still used typewriters etc).

Do you know the Golden Rule of all technical and engineering professions?

Don't fix what ain't broke.

All The Best

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

Oh, boy! Another random person that wants to reach "the end" while still having 2/3 of fun in front of him?! Sweet Jesus.

Cadwells Silver/Gold are NOT fun.

They are cheap and lazy substitutes for real end-game content.

If I want to experience the main story arc of one of the other factions I'll go start a toon in that faction.

All The Best

Well then. Thats just your opinion. I hope you wont complain about "lack of content". Because the content is in here. And if someone decides to ignore 2/3 of a game he simply doesnt have right to complain about "not enough content".

P3ZZL3 · July 2015

It's also worth noting, once you get to V1 you get Cadwells Silver open up via the Harborage.
Make sure you complete this.
Once completed, you don't have to complete quests to get anywhere in the game.
You can partner with a friend/guildie who has already unlocked all areas and use him to help you teleport to all the areas so you can adventure more

Gandrhulf_Harbard · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Well then. Thats just your opinion. I hope you wont complain about "lack of content". Because the content is in here. And if someone decides to ignore 2/3 of a game he simply doesnt have right to complain about "not enough content".

In WOW is the Horde levelling experience classed as "content" for Alliance characters?

No.

One of the MAJOR selling points of this game was the Three Faction antagonism of AvAvA.

Cadwells undermines that to the point of it being laughable to try and maintain it.

All The Best

smokes · July 2015

Dcaliber wrote: »

So I just hit vr1 and was pretty happy. Then I saw that I have to visit EVERY zone to level up to vr 13 or 14. Why?
What do I do after I hit vr13? Are there raids like Destiny?
I like this game, it helps me get my TES fix but I don't think I can quest this long.
Thanks lads/ladies

yea cadwells is awful, it has been the source of many complaints and burnout for those not inclined to grind

Azalin76 · July 2015

I remember what it was like before they lowered the xp needed to only 1 million for each rank, didn't it used to be 1 million times the rank? so to get from v4 to v5 it was 5 million xp and from v13 to v14 it was 14 million xp.

Flaminir · July 2015

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

Oh, boy! Another random person that wants to reach "the end" while still having 2/3 of fun in front of him?! Sweet Jesus.

Cadwells Silver/Gold are NOT fun.

They are cheap and lazy substitutes for real end-game content.

If I want to experience the main story arc of one of the other factions I'll go start a toon in that faction.

All The Best

Whilst I totally respect your choice on this & say just roll another character in that faction, you are totally dismissing the needs of a LOT of other players.

Most like having one main character.... one that they can do everything with, hence the name 'main'.

Now if they had started the game with no access to silver/gold as you suggest then I think most people would be very very annoyed that two thirds of the game content was locked out to them.

While I'm normally very loathe to mack this comparison I feel I have no choice here.

How many WoW Players have one toon that has played ALL Alliance content and then, without buying a faction change, played ALL Horde content?

Answer none.

And it is still the most successful MMORPG on the market.

My first job when I left school was as a repair and maintenance technician for office equipment (this is in the Pre-Ubiquitous-PC days when most companies still used typewriters etc).

Do you know the Golden Rule of all technical and engineering professions?

Don't fix what ain't broke.

All The Best

Well if you personally want a game just like WoW then there is an obvious answer there!

Many don't.

I think to simply dismiss Silver/Gold using some of the hyperbole that surrounds some of the forums posts these days is quite blinkered. It's not silver/gold that are intrinsically the problem... many many people really like them and don't want to have 2/3 of the game locked off. I quite enjoyed them 1st time around.

2nd... 3rd.... 4th... there becomes the issue for me...

And that's the issue for many people, that they don't want to have to quest there way up the levels.

It's not silver/gold as such... its the fact there needs to be a viable & reasonably paced alternative to questing up to the level cap. Vet ranks themselves are also a part of the issue.

Access to silver/gold areas isn't as big a deal if there was an alternative.

I think they've gone down the right route of increasing XP gain in various areas in the next major update, but what I'd like to see is that once you hit V1 & complete coldharbour that all of Silver AND Gold automatically unlock!

That way there's a choice... quest, PvP, grind.... do what you want, but you aren't forced into loads of questing if you don't want.

Sausage · July 2015

Dcaliber wrote: »

So I just hit vr1 and was pretty happy. Then I saw that I have to visit EVERY zone to level up to vr 13 or 14. Why?

You dont like to play, do you?

LrdRahvin · July 2015

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Well then. Thats just your opinion. I hope you wont complain about "lack of content". Because the content is in here. And if someone decides to ignore 2/3 of a game he simply doesnt have right to complain about "not enough content".

In WOW is the Horde levelling experience classed as "content" for Alliance characters?

No.

One of the MAJOR selling points of this game was the Three Faction antagonism of AvAvA.

Cadwells undermines that to the point of it being laughable to try and maintain it.

All The Best

ZOMG I love your sig...

How much are you charging to license it? Perhaps, we can work out a deal.

Edit: Nvm...found an old meme I made about a different game that conveys the same message and I get to save money.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

I love caldwell silver and gold. I didnt spent my time playing game and exploring things just to be forced at some point to make new character just to explore another 1/3 of game and then do it again.

With caldwell silver and gold i have an OPTION! A POSSIBLITY to explore it while still NOT BEING FORCED to do it.
If you dont like caldwell silver and gold there is Craglorn and Cyriodiil with quests and exp.

Not to mention this game provides enough of SP to master all crafts in one char and multiple alternative battle skills.

Only reason to make an alt is to try other classes but then, its your OWN choice to make an alt, and you ARENT alowed to blame anyone but yourself, that you now "Have to" lvl it up again. And noone forces you to lvl it up again up to the max lvl. If you want to, its your own choice.

And oh wow, to people who complain they have to "repeat" things when they lvl up alts. What were you thinking? Seriously, what did you expect? Making alt and not repeating single thing?

LrdRahvin · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

I love caldwell silver and gold. I didnt spent my time playing game and exploring things just to be forced at some point to make new character just to explore another 1/3 of game and then do it again.

With caldwell silver and gold i have an OPTION! A POSSIBLITY to explore it while still NOT BEING FORCED to do it.
If you dont like caldwell silver and gold there is Craglorn and Cyriodiil with quests and exp.

Not to mention this game provides enough of SP to master all crafts in one char and multiple alternative battle skills.

Only reason to make an alt is to try other classes but then, its your OWN choice to make an alt, and you ARENT alowed to blame anyone but yourself, that you now "Have to" lvl it up again. And noone forces you to lvl it up again up to the max lvl. If you want to, its your own choice.

And oh wow, to people who complain they have to "repeat" things when they lvl up alts. What were you thinking? Seriously, what did you expect? Making alt and not repeating single thing?

Riiiiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhhhhhhttttttt....

Because, ya know, Craglorn and Cyrodiil in their current incarnations are such incredibly joyful, well designed examples of ZOS DEV masterpieces.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · July 2015

Flaminir wrote: »

Well if you personally want a game just like WoW then there is an obvious answer there!

Many don't.

I don't.

I want ESO to be successful.

And that means not making the mistakes that others have made before you, it means learning from those mistakes, and it means being prepared to shift tack when what you are doing isn't working.

If the "plan" Zeni had for ESO was working there would have been no need to dump the Sub and move to B2P, would there?

Think about it.

All The Best

Cherryblossom · July 2015

Dcaliber wrote: »

So I just hit vr1 and was pretty happy. Then I saw that I have to visit EVERY zone to level up to vr 13 or 14. Why?
What do I do after I hit vr13? Are there raids like Destiny?
I like this game, it helps me get my TES fix but I don't think I can quest this long.
Thanks lads/ladies

Welcome to Lazy end game from ZOS.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

If you dont like caldwell silver and gold there is Craglorn and Cyriodiil with quests and exp.

Craglorn: penalised for grouping up in a group content area.

Cyrodil: unbalanced PvP made even worse by lousy performance issues, that have been ignored.

These are not really viable alternatives to Cadwells.

And that is, I suggest, why there is so much dislike of Cadwells - its the only viable route to VR12 and it sucks the life out of Alliance vs Alliance.

All The Best

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

LrdRahvin wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

I love caldwell silver and gold. I didnt spent my time playing game and exploring things just to be forced at some point to make new character just to explore another 1/3 of game and then do it again.

With caldwell silver and gold i have an OPTION! A POSSIBLITY to explore it while still NOT BEING FORCED to do it.
If you dont like caldwell silver and gold there is Craglorn and Cyriodiil with quests and exp.

Not to mention this game provides enough of SP to master all crafts in one char and multiple alternative battle skills.

Only reason to make an alt is to try other classes but then, its your OWN choice to make an alt, and you ARENT alowed to blame anyone but yourself, that you now "Have to" lvl it up again. And noone forces you to lvl it up again up to the max lvl. If you want to, its your own choice.

And oh wow, to people who complain they have to "repeat" things when they lvl up alts. What were you thinking? Seriously, what did you expect? Making alt and not repeating single thing?

Riiiiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhhhhhhttttttt....

Because, ya know, Craglorn and Cyrodiil in their current incarnations are such incredibly joyful, well designed examples of ZOS DEV masterpieces.

Have you done any of craglorn quests? Many people thing craglorn = nirn farm, dungeons

Many people dont know that craglorn does have its storyline quests with intresting story and mechanics! Yes a storyline in craglorn about celestial warriors. Sure you need a group for that but it takes just asking around and you will find plenty of people to explore it around.

Robotmafia · July 2015

SirAndy wrote: »

biovitalb16_ESO wrote: »

Level 50 was the first level cap. Then when we all hit level 50 and had nothing to do the devs panicked and made it Vr10..than panicked again and upped it to vr12...than panicked again and make it vr14. in the next major patch they are going to show us how they rushed together some content and upped it to vr16.

Well actually, the first level cap was level 17 but we rarely talk about that here anymore ...

pretty sure that level cap was only for testers xD

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

If you dont like caldwell silver and gold there is Craglorn and Cyriodiil with quests and exp.

Craglorn: penalised for grouping up in a group content area.

Cyrodil: unbalanced PvP made even worse by lousy performance issues, that have been ignored.

These are not really viable alternatives to Cadwells.

And that is, I suggest, why there is so much dislike of Cadwells - its the only viable route to VR12 and it sucks the life out of Alliance vs Alliance.

All The Best

There are PvE quests in cyriodiil too you know? And they give pretty lucrative exp. You can do them every day. Cadwell is not only route to VR12. Its one of routes. And among them there is grinding exp. But if you decide to skip it or ignore its just your own fault for pretending there are no alternatives.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

There are PvE quests in cyriodiil too you know? And they give pretty lucrative exp.

That most people never bother with because they keep getting ganked by PvPers with hundreds of CP looking for cheap kills.

I have no problem with putting PvE content and quests in a primarily PvP zone; but it was idiotic of them to not allow people to opt-out of PvP to do them.

All The Best

smokes · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

I love caldwell silver and gold. I didnt spent my time playing game and exploring things just to be forced at some point to make new character just to explore another 1/3 of game and then do it again.

With caldwell silver and gold i have an OPTION! A POSSIBLITY to explore it while still NOT BEING FORCED to do it.
If you dont like caldwell silver and gold there is Craglorn and Cyriodiil with quests and exp.

Not to mention this game provides enough of SP to master all crafts in one char and multiple alternative battle skills.

Only reason to make an alt is to try other classes but then, its your OWN choice to make an alt, and you ARENT alowed to blame anyone but yourself, that you now "Have to" lvl it up again. And noone forces you to lvl it up again up to the max lvl. If you want to, its your own choice.

And oh wow, to people who complain they have to "repeat" things when they lvl up alts. What were you thinking? Seriously, what did you expect? Making alt and not repeating single thing?

i like that the content is there to explore in cadwells S+G - what i dont like and what has caused a massive rift in the game, is that cadwells S+G raised the VR cap to VR10. when it shouldn't have.

this created a massive black hole of power gains between people who grinded to VR10 within 4 days of early access and those that are still in the process of levelling their first toon, via quests, to VR14.

cadwells should never have had any progress tied to it, other than skyshards, gold and materials.

granting VR10 through cadwells was the first step down the road to failure imo and still hasn't been fixed.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

There are PvE quests in cyriodiil too you know? And they give pretty lucrative exp.

That most people never bother with because they keep getting ganked by PvPers with hundreds of CP looking for cheap kills.

I have no problem with putting PvE content and quests in a primarily PvP zone; but it was idiotic of them to not allow people to opt-out of PvP to do them.

All The Best

I was worried about PvE content being in PvP zone too but after a bit of thinking and planning i went trought it without problems and i can share my tips with anyone who wants to do it too. You cant just nobrain it, you have to plan accordingly.
I picked champaign where map was dominated by my alliance. Based on my observation any faction can find campaign and time of day when map will be mostly in his own colour. Next when the fight goes on in one place, you go to opposite direction. Simple as that. Next, you avoid paths between keeps. Most players charging between keeps will go in most possible straight line. And 2 players is best party for it, 3 or 2. And you dont travel in group, you are spread around a bit so when one of you is attacked you can either spread out and hide (and when enemy goes away you can res friend) or you decide that you can take that fight on. Same goes with entering dungeons.

Upon applying those few tips, i cleared whole Cyriodiil zone, all dungeons, all skyshards, all quests. Even in enemy territory. And also the "giant pvpers lures" aka dolmens. Summary? Ganked few times in dungeons. Never ganked in dolmen. Spotted enemy players several times but waited them out. If there is an enemy player in quest hub in cyrio, there is high chance he doesnt bother with PVP just like you and want to do his quests in peace. It was a little frustrating but the risk was giving a little spice to challenge. Especially destroying dolmen next to enemy keep, where dolmens are like giant "I AM HERE" signs.

Obvious places like some 'popular farmind dungeons' will be harder to complete.

Flaminir · July 2015

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

Well if you personally want a game just like WoW then there is an obvious answer there!

Many don't.

I don't.

I want ESO to be successful.

And that means not making the mistakes that others have made before you, it means learning from those mistakes, and it means being prepared to shift tack when what you are doing isn't working.

If the "plan" Zeni had for ESO was working there would have been no need to dump the Sub and move to B2P, would there?

Think about it.

All The Best

I Agree on everything you say there.

But the part about dropping the sub.... If that wasn't planned/predicted by them from day 1 then I'm a son of a Guar!

It was nothing to do with the relative success/failure of the game on PC.... it was everything to do with the charging model of Sony & Microsoft on console platforms, & they couldn't have different payment models across different platforms so had to bring PC in line with this.

They knew full well it would have to change when console came around (Or at the very least would have suspected that they wouldn't get Sony/MS to change so would have to themselves) & the first year was an obvious revenue generating exercise to get cash in the bank to carry on development.

But back on topic.... everything about ESO is geared to, and marketed about giving the player a choice.

They need to ensure that the choice is for people to do silver/gold if they want, and that there'sa viable alternative for those that don't.... I think that the XP increases are a good start, and we just need more content.

I don't class Silver/Gold as endgame content at all. They are levelling areas.... nothing more nothing less. Quest or grind them... who cares... but they aren't endgame.

coryevans_3b14_ESO · July 2015

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Well then. Thats just your opinion. I hope you wont complain about "lack of content". Because the content is in here. And if someone decides to ignore 2/3 of a game he simply doesnt have right to complain about "not enough content".

In WOW is the Horde levelling experience classed as "content" for Alliance characters?

No.

One of the MAJOR selling points of this game was the Three Faction antagonism of AvAvA.

Cadwells undermines that to the point of it being laughable to try and maintain it.

All The Best

That's definitely part of it. But what's worse is having multi faction guilds. That and other things make the faction "war" meaningless mersion wise.

Tors · July 2015

F7sus4 wrote: »

Oh, boy! Another random person that wants to reach "the end" while still having 2/3 of fun in front of him?! Sweet Jesus.

@F7sus4 Utterly awesome!

Gandrhulf_Harbard · July 2015

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Well then. Thats just your opinion. I hope you wont complain about "lack of content". Because the content is in here. And if someone decides to ignore 2/3 of a game he simply doesnt have right to complain about "not enough content".

In WOW is the Horde levelling experience classed as "content" for Alliance characters?

No.

One of the MAJOR selling points of this game was the Three Faction antagonism of AvAvA.

Cadwells undermines that to the point of it being laughable to try and maintain it.

All The Best

That's definitely part of it. But what's worse is having multi faction guilds. That and other things make the faction "war" meaningless mersion wise.

Agree entirely.

Its like they had a handful of great ideas, but no understanding of even the basics needed to implement them.

All The Best

AlnilamE · July 2015

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

I for one have just reached the vegetable level with my new Templar.

When I reached the aforementioned level with my sorc, I dyed my armor red in celebration!

It was short-lived, though and I'm now halfway to v11.

Drelkag · July 2015

The whole VR system is a mess IMO. Who thought it was a great idea to completely break the great leveling the game had 1-50 and shove us into another faction completely isolated from meeting the actual members of that group? Just feels 'wrong'.