A New Armor Discussion [With Pictures! :D]

Rev Rielle

Xendyn wrote: »

I wish you luck with that, I honestly do. However, they have already changed armor in the other direction so Idk how it'll go for you.

Redguard they did this




Orc they did this




Neither of which was an improvement in a lot of players opinions (do a search, you'll see)

I believe that redguard armour change in years to come will be a benchmark for - and often referred to as - a bad design decision by an MMO company with regard to armour style changes. I still shake my head in disbelief when looking back at old screenshots. If you showed any lay person the two imagines, and asked them to name which one was the original design and which one was the improved version.... I think we know what most would likely say.

Now admittedly, the orc armour did need fixing. It's graphics and texture quality (as can be seen in the pictures above) was clearly very blurry in the original. The hem on the light armour too was exceptionally thick and overall the armour looked messy and dyed atrociously.

So how the same developers on one hand can do a good job on one set, whilst basically ruining another... that's anyone's guess. Though I suppose that's largely a matter of personal opinion.

svartorn

ZOS executive designers are hyper conservative religious idiots I guess.

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO

svartorn wrote: »

ZOS executive designers are hyper conservative religious idiots I guess.

Not that religious. Otherwise they would have put more love into the templar class.

Schnuffles

It has been a while since I've checked this thread. I am pleased to see people bringing their ideas and breathing life into this suggestion. Keep up the conversation. Discussions like this are the only way to have things changed. (especially for console players such as myself seeing as there is no "/feedback" option for us)

orangeberry4

id pay a few crowns for good costumes that were not censored so heavily.

TheShadowScout

Personally I like the changes, makes armor look like armor with more armor-like coverage. And without "bossfight weak spot" boob window in the orc plate mail...

Though I really would wish to see the old redguard light visuals come back as "civilian clothing" for roleplay purposes...

But then, I would wish a lot of different visuals to come as civilian clothing... and for it to be more accessible then just burglarizable... purchasable from tailors, research- and craft-able by clothiers, etc.

Bebopgroove

If the clothing and armor had never been altered, I would probably play more females. As it stands now, I only play two girls (both beast races) and the rest are males.

And I'm a girl

Volkodav

Too many people are afraid of skin showing,as if it is *** or something.In reality many people wore rather skimpy leather armor,as it were,back in the day.Reasoning? It wouldnt get in the way during battle. Not everyone had metal armor.

Schnuffles

I feel like this forum is not viewed as much as it should be. They want players to come back to play but they don't want to give us what we want.

Volkodav

Schnuffles wrote: »

I feel like this forum is not viewed as much as it should be. They want players to come back to play but they don't want to give us what we want.

I once commented that you can please some of the people some of the time,but you cant please all of the people all of the time.

TheShadowScout

Volkodav wrote: »

Too many people are afraid of skin showing,as if it is *** or something.In reality many people wore rather skimpy leather armor,as it were,back in the day.Reasoning? It wouldnt get in the way during battle. Not everyone had metal armor.

...and those who did wear "skimpy leather" all too often ended up conquered by those who wore proper armor. See history of the roman empire. Since "getting in the way" (of enemy blows) kinda is the whole point...

Perhonally I really would -love- to see each armor available in two versions - the current one as "full coverage" and a skimpy one as "half coverage" with, say, 66% of the protection of the full coverage version.
Full coverage boots and half coverage sandals. Full coverage armored pants and half coverage kilts/skirts. Full coverage jerkins and half coverage vests. Full coverage cuirass and chainmail and half coverage breastplate. Full coverage helmets and half coverage skullcaps. Full coverage gauntlets and half coverage bracers. That sort of thing...

Schnuffles

All I want is the OPTION to choose what my character wears. (Which i would gladly pay for with my own cash.) Its just as much of an RPG as it is an MMO they should have known this when they took this game on, Its ELDER SCROLLS and if i can't make a simple decision as to what my character wears on a daily basis to make me feel like I have a small amount of individualism or control than i should just go play a game like tomb raider where all these things are decided for me. They aren't listening to the consumer and I'm not the first to have this complaint

Schnuffles

Volkodav wrote: »

Schnuffles wrote: »

I feel like this forum is not viewed as much as it should be. They want players to come back to play but they don't want to give us what we want.

I once commented that you can please some of the people some of the time,but you cant please all of the people all of the time.

Its really their job as a business to take our suggestions into consideration and make an attempt to please their consumers. But theres a bad habit in the gaming industry now days of them TELLING US their product is good and if we dont want it well "the consumer must be stupid".
No, you can have the best product in the world but if theres no one interested in buying it you've simply wasted time and money. In some things you have to cater to your audience if you plan on surviving in the long term.
If you refuse and ignore your audience you cannot be suprised when your "amazing product" ultimately ends up falling short of your expectations of greatness.

Schnuffles

TheShadowScout wrote: »

...and those who did wear "skimpy leather" all too often ended up conquered by those who wore proper armor. See history of the roman empire. Since "getting in the way" (of enemy blows) kinda is the whole point...

The realisim argument is old and played out. Its a video game where Dragons witches and zombies exist I really dont care about "well that armor isnt protective, blah blah"
Ok so i'll just chalk it up so some kind of enchantment or ward.
Applying realism to this game is just plain stupid. I play games to escape reality, I just want nice armor and costumes i can enjoy.

TheShadowScout

Schnuffles wrote: »

The realisim argument is old and played out. Its a video game where Dragons witches and zombies exist I really dont care about "well that armor isnt protective, blah blah"
Ok so i'll just chalk it up so some kind of enchantment or ward.
Applying realism to this game is just plain stupid. I play games to escape reality, I just want nice armor and costumes i can enjoy.

The "realism within the constraints of the game setting" argument is very important to some people; that's what drew a great many people to TES games in the first place after all. And some arguments never become played out, because they stay valid.

If -you- don't care about it, fine, that's you. Some others do. Some games don't care about it either, other games at least try. ESO (the whole TES range, actually) is one of my favorite games because it -does- try, because there -is- a sense of realism to the attire, because it makes one dream about how this -could- be, in some alternate universe. And feeding dreams is what a game like this is all about for me anyhow...

And the "but... enchantment" argument is as old, and unlike the realism one pretty invalid as well.
Point one - TES lore has no "mystrical protection" items like D&D (no Bracers AC0, no Ring of Protecction+5).
Point two - while enchanted skimpy armor may be strong, it still doesn't cover all. And enchented full coverage armor would be stronger still, thus my "make skimpy armor variants at less protection and have people make their choices as they may" idea.

Applying realism -within the setting- to any game is never stupid, its immersive. Saying it isn't is pretty much like saying "hey, who needs historical accuracy in movies, let's just outfit the "roman legionaries" in sneakers, people watch this to escape reality anyways, not to get a history lession..." "We con't need convincing CGI, just copy something in, who cares about realistic looks..." There are movies like that. They are usually found in the "please buy this for a hugely reduced cost, since noone in his right mind would pay any halfway decent price for it" basket in front of your store. That is now the direction I for one would like ESO going.
The immersion is what makes the game world feel "alive" for many of us. The realism within the "what if this existed" feeds that.

Now... that being said...

More options are always a good thing! I'd gladly welcome more options, as long as they are decently done both in looks and mechanics. I really don't mind skimpy clothing, I just hate it when the skimpy clothing gets the same effect as full plate... because I happen to think there ought to be some tradeoffs. The burglarable "civilian clothing" pieces made me very happy, and I really wish there'd be more of the kind, and more easily accessible; those give a nice option to have roleplaying clothes. But I mentioned that already.

Schnuffles

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Point 1: The point of "realism" is stupid because it is abundantly clear that Elder Scrolls has since the beginning never had a qualm over the "the armor isnt realistic" argument.
Over and over there have been examples in the many canon unmodded games over the years of less than protective armor. If you looked at the front page you would see it for yourself.
THAT is why FOR THIS GAME the realism of armor argument is quite frankly STUPID.
If you can run around choke slamming dragons in a tavern dress enchanted with Resist fire in the canon games why is it barred from access in this one?
That is the point i'm making. So really take the realism argument to some other game because it just doesn't belong in this one.

Point 2: Your personal "immersion" should not affect my own. Saying the way you play is the "right" or "best way" is also incorrect. I bought this game just like any of you. I should have the right to play it how I like too. ESPECIALLY if i'm willing to pay EXTRA to do so.

This game promised me Elder scrolls in all its glory .. just ONLINE. Which it is not and hasn't been since the PC release.
Its so much more than just the outfits, the outfits are just one minor inconvenience that i figured with enough time would change because its something so small that could please so many. [no one asked for this censorship anyway! its a rated M game to begine with!] But no its about more, its about all of the half-baked ideas this company generated and didnt live up too. And they wonder why people keep dropping like flies.

PAY ATTENTION TO THE CONSUMER.

dodgehopper_ESO

Xendyn wrote: »

I wish you luck with that, I honestly do. However, they have already changed armor in the other direction so Idk how it'll go for you.

Redguard they did this




Orc they did this




Neither of which was an improvement in a lot of players opinions (do a search, you'll see)

In terms of the theme for Orcs, it was stupid to have the boob window. Orcs are far too pragmatic for that. In the case of Redguards, they live in a searing hot desert. Boob windows might be appropriate in the harem, but I'm not so sure it makes sense travelling among the dunes. At any regard I think what they changed the armor too was appropriate, but slutty alternatives are fine in other areas. They could easily make costumes for this, or even variant choices for current motifs. I'm fairly certain the Skyrim Tavern dress, the nocturnal dress, and the dibellan robe would be hugely popular for a lot of players. I'm happy when heavy armor doesn't have these stupid features though. As it is I find some major flaws with heavy armor artwork in the game from a realism standpoint. Most games really get wrong what is most important to protect. If I can stab your abdomen into the lungs, or stab and hit your heart... its probably not heavy armor. The same holds true for the neck. I'd consider ancient roman armor something like this: Heavy chest, medium head, medium legs, light feet, medium hands, medium shoulders.

Schnuffles

Realisim: Women would not have Boobs in heavy armor. That would make it exceptionally easy to crush said armor and kill the woman. so we need to flatten those chest peices while we are censoring everything else too.
Hows this for realism. none of the armor in the game is realistic. Leather armor is also not skin tight!

If everything were "realistic" we would all be running around in brown clunky tunics because armor was really not dyed or decorative unless it was ceremonial. and you would not be able to tell a male from a female at all! everyone would just be one gender neutral shape and helmets would cover everything.

Mmm yes a game where it doesn't matter what you look like because everyone looks the same.
the only separating features being your usernames

Sounds like fun right?

I want options. Its a game based on a fantasy world where just about anything is possible and i should think more revealing clothing options based off ALREADY CANON armor sets would be the least of your worries

No one is asking for there to be light sabers or wookie costumes. This request is withing the realm of what is feasible and far less immersion breaking that STUPID wedding dress! How can anyone complain about this when there is THAT in the game?!

DMBCML

Astrids_fire wrote: »

I vote YES to proposition Scantily Dress lol

If the game is truly going to for mature audiences, shouldn't it reflect that? Not g rated stuff.

dodgehopper_ESO

Schnuffles wrote: »

Realisim: Women would not have Boobs in heavy armor. That would make it exceptionally easy to crush said armor and kill the woman. so we need to flatten those chest peices while we are censoring everything else too.
Hows this for realism. none of the armor in the game is realistic. Leather armor is also not skin tight!

If everything were "realistic" we would all be running around in brown clunky tunics because armor was really not dyed or decorative unless it was ceremonial. and you would not be able to tell a male from a female at all! everyone would just be one gender neutral shape and helmets would cover everything.

Mmm yes a game where it doesn't matter what you look like because everyone looks the same.
the only separating features being your usernames

Sounds like fun right?

Stop already with the realism.
I want options. Its a game based on a fantasy world where just about anything is possible and i should think more revealing clothing options based off ALREADY CANON armor sets would be the least of your worries

No one is asking for there to be light sabers or wookie costumes. This request is withing the realm of what is feasible

We are looking at things from different angles. I like the way the heroes (and citizens) of tamriel in Skyrim were so grungy. It makes the world more lived in and believable. As a side note you might actually be surprised how colorful clothing was in ancient days. Vikings wore a lot of bright blues and reds and yellows... they were not drab by any stretch of the imagination, and they did not wear motorcycle gang leather either, like the movies seem to say. I can live with a certain level of 'Conan-esque' slutty clothing out there, but what I'm saying to the developers is that I'd really prefer they didn't apply this style to heavy armor. Heavy Armor is heavy armor. I think boob bumps in armor is also a bit ridiculous as well, so you're preaching to the choir there. I didn't nitpick all of the details that irk me about armor in the game, but I like the armor to look at least slightly believable. Heavy armor SHOULD look like defense was the foremost concern in its design. Heavy armor was never perfect but there are some obvious traits it should have. At its best it should try to make stabbing at any point very difficult. It should be designed to deflect blows. It should be particularly strong against slashing strikes. I like the fact that hammers/maces in the game have a trait that penetrates armor, because that is exactly what these weapons were for. I just want a hint or taste of realism.

I'm also assenting that there is a place for what you want, more in the realm of light armor, and to a lesser extent medium. Lets be fair here anyway, almost no one wears heavy armor, particularly in pvp because it is close to worthless. The statistical elements of heavy armor are another issue altogether, but probably should be dealt with as well. I'm not disagreeing with you entirely here, I just have a particular dislike of seeing Knights armor that looks completely nonfunctional. A Knight should look like a Knight, whether or not they are a man or a woman.

On the issue of medium armor I think some degree of openings and weaknesses should be available. Medium armor was lighter and less well protected. I can even see medium armor existing as 'heavy in parts' with clear openings in other areas, but they shouldn't be stupid openings. A breastplate shouldn't give a straight shot to the heart, but I could envision a piece of armor that favors protection on the left side, for instance. Chain armor should at the very least cover from neck to upper thigh. Making openings in chain to reveal your womanly assets is just not realistic or reasonable, and would also weaken the integrity of the armor. The point I'm making here is armor is meant to protect. I think relative free reign should be given in the light armor arena, because at that point you're talking about clothes. Do whatever you want with clothes. :P

As for the issue of the armor being skin level, that's a matter of their artwork coding, and nothing can be done about that unless they change their system.

Nadijeh

I definitely want "sexier", less conservative outfits, I can't wait for the upcoming trailer costumes because they have a "cool and stylish" factor that everything else very seriously lacks.

When you have an in-game store and your monetization is heavily reliant on the sale of costumes, pets, and mounts then you should really go out of your way to design costumes that are outstanding. Right now everything is mediocre at best, and downright horrendous at worst with very rare exceptions.

It's important to remember that most peoples Elder Scrolls experiences with past games largely included modded versions of the game that had a lot of sexier options than what was originally designed, and realism has very little place in a high & dark fantasy MMORPG imo. More feminine options with skirts, trains, corsets, feathers, beads, mesh, straps, and charms can ALL fit within the setting of the game and it's aesthetic while also being made to look outstanding and create signature looks for our characters.



This is sort of what I'm talking about to give a very general idea.

TheShadowScout

Nadijeh wrote: »

This is sort of what I'm talking about to give a very general idea.

That is the kind of outfit I'd love seeing in ESO... it looks stylish, yet doesn't forego protection either. Perfect for some light armor IMO...
(BtW, Morrigan always has cool looks! ;-p)

Nadijeh

This is actually using mods for Skyrim creating an outfit inspired by Yennefer from Witcher 3.

Schnuffles

These ideas are exactly the kinds of costumes i have in mind when speaking of "revealing" armors. That kind of general idea along with any of the original armor sets already made by bethesda (therefore CANON, no matter how "unrealistic" or "impractical" they seem) would be a very welcome addition to the game.