Azura Star EU

Erondil

Tors wrote: »

Its just a pity that the server has been brought down right now due to issues introduced from the nana squads lag bombs.

Anyway, here is a nice picture of what happens when you run solo as a red. Taken 5 mins before server down.

Prize to the person who can count the yellows (+- 10/20) !!!!

Lol unless EDC had a raid tonight (they didnt for 3-4 weeks) the only ad guild playing on azura is banana squad, and we don't even bother raiding in primetime anymore. It seems odd that you're one of those kid blaming one faction for latency, when in fact you're part of a guild that does way worse. If you were blaming zos and saying everybody is guilty, I would agree with you until a certain point but this is just ridiculous aswell as embarassing.
No one ever said only ep had big fat pug/organised raids/zergs (whatever you want to call it), ad and dc are obviously guilty aswell. And well solo play is in a poor state for members of every faction, because of guilds like your aswell as the pug zerg mentality (both things are present in every faction, I feel like I repeat myself but it's needed for @Lava_Croft to understand, sorry).
Though I will give you some advice, if you really want to solo/small scale, don't go between yellow alessia and red sejanus in primetime. That's "kris solo" not solo, and eventhough I do that from time to time, its not very fun imho.

Tors

@Erondil

You have just repeated what I have been saying.

Lag is not the players fault, its the server infrastructure that is lacking.



My picture is just to show that Zergs come in all colours.



By the way I don't enjoy soloing, I cant see the point in playing a MMORPG and not group. Hence me playing a Templar specked to heal and little else.

Erondil

Tors wrote: »

@Erondil

You have just repeated what I have been saying.

Lag is not the players fault, its the server infrastructure that is lacking.

I agree that lag is zos fault. But we all know that they will never ever be able to fix it. So why play in a way that create a lot of latency and destroy the fun for everyone else? Again, that goes for everybody.

Tors

Erondil wrote: »

Tors wrote: »

@Erondil

You have just repeated what I have been saying.

Lag is not the players fault, its the server infrastructure that is lacking.

I agree that lag is zos fault. But we all know that they will never ever be able to fix it. So why play in a way that create a lot of latency and destroy the fun for everyone else? Again, that goes for everybody.

So in one post you say that its not the players fault, but in the very next you say it is?


We are not responsible for people following the swords on the map. To say a single guild with a couple of raids running can have any noticeable difference on a server designed to host hundreds is pretty foolish.

Jhunn

Tors wrote: »

To say a single guild with a couple of raids running can have any noticeable difference on a server designed to host hundreds is pretty foolish.

No it's not, everyone knows it and it's laughable you're trying to deny it.

Sanct16

@Tors

Let's talk about math:

Tors wrote: »

Some of you are really sounding stupid now.
Its basic maths.
[...]
The maths is not hard to understand.
[...]
2) ....Work out that (300 people x 3) / (number of possible objectives) = (very rough number of players in one place).

Since you asked for it:
There is 18 keeps and 3 outposts. Assuming that the population cap is at 300 per faction and noone is traveling between objectives, doing pve or IC we get:
900/21 = 42,8

However it is highly questionable that there are 300 people participating in actual pvp for each faction. I think the amount of people that are fighting for objectives is closer to 100-150 for each faction so it should probably be:
450/21 = 21,4

I don't think anyone would mind fights with 21 people (probably not even 42) at the same objective... However the problem is that most people just push the same keep. So although we do have 21 objectives there are actually only ~3 fights going on for the most part thanks to certain groups that think having the whole faction at the same keep would be something worth aiming for.

Taking your equation and assuming you fight at least the same amount of enemies as you have in your group we get:
2 * 36 = x / 21
<=> x = 21*36*2
<=> x = 1512

So in order for 36 man group to be justifyable by your equation it would take over 1500 players on a single campaign....

Erondil

Tors wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Tors wrote: »

@Erondil

You have just repeated what I have been saying.

Lag is not the players fault, its the server infrastructure that is lacking.

I agree that lag is zos fault. But we all know that they will never ever be able to fix it. So why play in a way that create a lot of latency and destroy the fun for everyone else? Again, that goes for everybody.

So in one post you say that its not the players fault, but in the very next you say it is?


We are not responsible for people following the swords on the map. To say a single guild with a couple of raids running can have any noticeable difference on a server designed to host hundreds is pretty foolish.

Reread again, it's not exactly what I said. And I'm sorry but yes, a single guild running 20+ man stacked raid does make a noticeable difference, as long as they fight something for more than a few minutes. That's sad for a game who is supposed to handle largescale battle, but thats how it is since 1.5.

Sanct16

Well 20 people don't lag the server. A guild

Tors wrote: »

running with a couple of raids

does.

Erondil

Sanct16 wrote: »

Well 20 people don't lag the server. A guild

Tors wrote: »

running with a couple of raids

does.

20 vs 20 does as long as there are a few other pug fights on the map. But ye nothing comparable to a couple of raids^^

Baragorath

@Sanct16 and @Jhunn I don't see any problem to solve your situation.

Stop coming to Pact zone, DC push AD and vice versa.

You can have your small scale without lag which we generate and you can freely farm each other with full support from Pact side.

This will require to drop your green alliance.

TBH who cares you die from pact lag - for sure not us.

Good luck and have fun.

Sanct16

Baragorath wrote: »

@Sanct16 and @Jhunn I don't see any problem to solve your situation.

Stop coming to Pact zone, DC push AD and vice versa.

You can have your small scale without lag which we generate and you can freely farm each other with full support from Pact side.

This will require to drop your green alliance.

TBH who cares you die from pact lag - for sure not us.

Good luck and have fun.

Well sadly the lag is serverwide so when you stack at alessia bridge with whole EP faction server is unplayable everywhere. The reason Banana Squad is pushing EP is usually to try and split up EP so the lag might stop for a while.

Nafirian

The logic displayed by Decimation Elite never ceases to amaze me just wow.

VagabondAngel

EP take BRK with what looks like at least 60 people. 6 people sieging, 50+ running around spamming aoe at nothing. Are we seeing the problem yet?

Etaniel

Tors wrote: »

@Erondil

You have just repeated what I have been saying.

Lag is not the players fault, its the server infrastructure that is lacking.



My picture is just to show that Zergs come in all colours.



By the way I don't enjoy soloing, I cant see the point in playing a MMORPG and not group. Hence me playing a Templar specked to heal and little else.

Tors wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Tors wrote: »

@Erondil

You have just repeated what I have been saying.

Lag is not the players fault, its the server infrastructure that is lacking.

I agree that lag is zos fault. But we all know that they will never ever be able to fix it. So why play in a way that create a lot of latency and destroy the fun for everyone else? Again, that goes for everybody.

So in one post you say that its not the players fault, but in the very next you say it is?


We are not responsible for people following the swords on the map. To say a single guild with a couple of raids running can have any noticeable difference on a server designed to host hundreds is pretty foolish.

You just blow my mind every time you post, incredible !

MMO means multiplayer interaction, it doesn't say they have to be on your side, so soloing against people has a place in an mmo, don't see what is weird about that (solo pve arenas, now that's something that doesn't make sense).

Zergs come in all colours. Yes, they do, no one is denying that, stop using it as an argument to justify your behaviour. That screenshot is basically you feeling what every small scaler feels when meeting your groups, you seem to dislike that feeling, go figure.

Lag is both the player's fault and ZoS's fault. Infrastructure/code or whatever is utter crap and even though it was designed to support hundreds of players it doesn't. Now that we know it doesn't, it's the player's fault if he keeps pushing past the limits of the server.

You are responsible for the swords on the map, with the amount of people you move in your raids, you create big swords, and the few pugs that show up don't make a much bigger impact than the sh**storm you've already set in place. You seem to be very naive concerning the pop caps in Cyro, it is nowhere near 300 per faction, it's much closer to 100-120, so yes, a guild running a couple of raids has a HUGE impact on server performance. (running 3 raids means running about 70% of your faction's population).


For the last time, the server cannot host hundreds of players (maybe it used to be possible, but that is irrelevant to the current situation) even though it was designed with that goal in mind, so stop acting like it does !

FriedEggSandwich

Tors wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Ive stopped caring.

Maybe but but I did just see an amazing video

Which shows that some people DO care. A little bit too much I think....

Anyway, Decimation Elite are honored that there are people willing to take the time out of their busy lives to make stuff like this.


Its just a pity that the server has been brought down right now due to issues introduced from the nana squads lag bombs.

Anyway, here is a nice picture of what happens when you run solo as a red. Taken 5 mins before server down.

Prize to the person who can count the yellows (+- 10/20) !!!!

Anyone can take screenies like that. Here's a nice picture of what happens when you run in a group of 3 as yellow lol. Taken the evening before last.



http://i.imgur.com/hLiDxe0.jpg

azoriangaming

who is the ep ball group that is up right now? Jesus the lag at this time of a morning...

LegendaryChef

I reset my router and it was working fine, you all are deluded.

Nafirian

Jaybe_Mawfaka

More people more fun
No matter that server can't handle even 20v20 proper fight, lets keep acting like we don't have a clue what are the reasons of the laggs, for sure it is not our 3 full raids ballstacking on the crown

Tors

I am still not sure why anyone who is red is automatically DE while the yellows and blues are 100% sat in little 4 man groups heroically soloing the might to the massed Red empire.


@Sanct16 cheers, I always wondered what the rough numbers of players per side are in the game. I still think your numbers are on the low side.

The official numbers were once

1 bar = 0 - 75 people
2 bars = 76 - 150 people
3 bars = 151 - 225 people

SO going by these figues we would be on the top end - 600ish players on the server a night (453-675)


That said, you forget a very important point.

The map is divided into logical squares, all of which have some autonomous processing control. It is not a single map, but overlapping maps with their own resources assigned.

This can be seen when you get those random loading screens running across open land. From what I can see the majority of these are to flush some sort of cache serverside (no activity on your local machine)

Squares next to each other seem to share some resources, which makes sense, you must be able to see people on both sides of a demarcation line, thus each overlay must talk to those adjacent to them, but a square ajacent to that one wont.

So a big group of players will affect you locally, but they will have no affect on your from a medium distance from yourself.

Again you can proove this by the ping meter, it goves over 150 for me and I know a massive zerg is approaching. Once they are removed, the ping goes down to 50-100. They will all have ressed at the same place (well most of them will) if these people stacked up were affecting the whole map, then I would still have a high ping rate.

Not sure how large a square is, but it seems to be big enough to fit 3 in between Alessia and BRK, so they are quite large.



RIght back to the rest of the crap you guys are spewing.

Now its bad to run as a single group? DE are causing the collapse of the entire data center by having the temerity to field an entire raid?

The hypocrisy is staggering from anyone in Nana squad complaining about ball groups, you are the single biggest practitioner of this style of play. You are famous for it. My screen lights up with the glow of your prox bomb as it approaches.

Baragorath

It is clear for Pact your Green Alliance failed.

Your Green Alliance rised the beast which you can not stop.

Its you AD and DC which were keeping border on your home keeps and kept pushing Pact.

It was really boring to fight all the time for Arrius when your preferred quest was Arrius lumber which is posted somewhere in this thread.

You want roll back - no chance.

You can keep scouts in each keep as you used to do last months and come with huge numbers which are hidden in all your pictures and movies.

Let it be well known - WE THE PACT ARE PREPARED AND WILL KICK YOU ACCORDINGLY. - More enemy more fun - more APs for the PACT.

At the moment will re-use my picture which was used to laugh from DC cooperation in thread called "[PC] Azuras - campaign win for Daggerfall thanks to huge cooperation from Honour, Exile, BOD and EVO "

Nafirian

Tors wrote: »

I am still not sure why anyone who is red is automatically DE while the yellows and blues are 100% sat in little 4 man groups heroically soloing the might to the massed Red empire.


@Sanct16 cheers, I always wondered what the rough numbers of players per side are in the game. I still think your numbers are on the low side.

The official numbers were once

1 bar = 0 - 75 people
2 bars = 76 - 150 people
3 bars = 151 - 225 people

SO going by these figues we would be on the top end - 600ish players on the server a night (453-675)


That said, you forget a very important point.

The map is divided into logical squares, all of which have some autonomous processing control. It is not a single map, but overlapping maps with their own resources assigned.

This can be seen when you get those random loading screens running across open land. From what I can see the majority of these are to flush some sort of cache serverside (no activity on your local machine)

Squares next to each other seem to share some resources, which makes sense, you must be able to see people on both sides of a demarcation line, thus each overlay must talk to those adjacent to them, but a square ajacent to that one wont.

So a big group of players will affect you locally, but they will have no affect on your from a medium distance from yourself.

Again you can proove this by the ping meter, it goves over 150 for me and I know a massive zerg is approaching. Once they are removed, the ping goes down to 50-100. They will all have ressed at the same place (well most of them will) if these people stacked up were affecting the whole map, then I would still have a high ping rate.

Not sure how large a square is, but it seems to be big enough to fit 3 in between Alessia and BRK, so they are quite large.



RIght back to the rest of the crap you guys are spewing.

Now its bad to run as a single group? DE are causing the collapse of the entire data center by having the temerity to field an entire raid?

The hypocrisy is staggering from anyone in Nana squad complaining about ball groups, you are the single biggest practitioner of this style of play. You are famous for it. My screen lights up with the glow of your prox bomb as it approaches.

Yet again blaming other people for it while you run in massive ROFL trains k den.

Jhunn

Not true @Tors but you wouldn't know of course, since you don't solo away from the zergs. If Arrius has a 3 way fight with +80 people and +500 ping, I can feel it on Faregyl farm.

They said that about population cap, yes, but this was lowered multiple times and it's impossible that this cap is above 150 people at the moment.

@Baragorath #MoreNumbersMoreFun #ProudToZerg #PactStronk

Septimus_Magna

The problem isnt that there are very big groups of unskilled players running around.

The problem is that these groups are basically immortal because of the game's mechanics and the lag they produce.

Im fine with 40 players grouping up when they're new to pvp or not yet used to the combat style.
In theory their numbers would make up for their lack of skill to keep the fights relative fair.

This used to be the case, back when we had dynamic ulti regen etc.
Right now this balance between numbers and player skill is almost completely gone, thats whats ruining pvp.

There's too little incentive to improve actual player skill, if you run with a large enough group you'll win anyway (and lag-out the server out while doing so).

Running with a very big group should not guarantee winning battles.

The best way for ZOS to fix this is to give organized/skilled groups a way to defeat larger unorganized/unskilled groups.

Hopefully the upcoming pvp changes will help to bring back some balance to Cyrodiil group pvp.

Baragorath

@Jhunn

Correction - equivalent forces against enemy numbers.

Hope you enjoy Glademist lumber fights same as Arrius lumber.

P.S.

Suggest you to keep Glademist lumber quest.

Erondil

Tors wrote: »

I am still not sure why anyone who is red is automatically DE while the yellows and blues are 100% sat in little 4 man groups heroically soloing the might to the massed Red empire.


@Sanct16 cheers, I always wondered what the rough numbers of players per side are in the game. I still think your numbers are on the low side.

The official numbers were once

1 bar = 0 - 75 people
2 bars = 76 - 150 people
3 bars = 151 - 225 people

SO going by these figues we would be on the top end - 600ish players on the server a night (453-675)


That said, you forget a very important point.

The map is divided into logical squares, all of which have some autonomous processing control. It is not a single map, but overlapping maps with their own resources assigned.

This can be seen when you get those random loading screens running across open land. From what I can see the majority of these are to flush some sort of cache serverside (no activity on your local machine)

Squares next to each other seem to share some resources, which makes sense, you must be able to see people on both sides of a demarcation line, thus each overlay must talk to those adjacent to them, but a square ajacent to that one wont.

So a big group of players will affect you locally, but they will have no affect on your from a medium distance from yourself.

Again you can proove this by the ping meter, it goves over 150 for me and I know a massive zerg is approaching. Once they are removed, the ping goes down to 50-100. They will all have ressed at the same place (well most of them will) if these people stacked up were affecting the whole map, then I would still have a high ping rate.

Not sure how large a square is, but it seems to be big enough to fit 3 in between Alessia and BRK, so they are quite large.



RIght back to the rest of the crap you guys are spewing.

Now its bad to run as a single group? DE are causing the collapse of the entire data center by having the temerity to field an entire raid?

The hypocrisy is staggering from anyone in Nana squad complaining about ball groups, you are the single biggest practitioner of this style of play. You are famous for it. My screen lights up with the glow of your prox bomb as it approaches.

I'm pretty sure a faction can be locked with far less than 200 players, split between IC and Cyrodiil. Also the lag (latency, not fps) isn't local, it's server wide (I have 1k ping at base quite often in primetime) idk about you but when I have random loading screen it's usually because my pc is shite, so most of the stuff doesnt render on my screen and the game decides to go in loading screen to render it (I used to have it alot, and it was mainly when I would get near a keep/many ppl that didnt have time to render).
If you would play far from your own faction with a smaller group more often, you would know it^^
No one ever said only DE makes lag (or at least from what Ive read), everybody creates latency BUT a lot of people moving alltogether does put more pressure on the server than the same amount of people spread all over the map and everyone knows it, except those that don't want to accept it.

Also yes we do run 12 players group tight and we do coordinate proxi, the supposed zerg buster/tool punishing stacking to, guess what, burst zergs and kill stacked group. What a shame.

Dakrana_Thrazvoth

Tors

Erondil wrote: »

I'm pretty sure a faction can be locked with far less than 200 players, split between IC and Cyrodiil.

I would love to have some real information on this, but the only way would be from a player created source like esostats.com which is hardly accuarte. I doubt Zos will furnish us with any real data any time soon.

Erondil wrote: »

Also the lag (latency, not fps) isn't local, it's server wide (I have 1k ping at base quite often in primetime) idk about you but when I have random loading screen it's usually because my pc is shite, so most of the stuff doesnt render on my screen and the game decides to go in loading screen to render it (I used to have it alot, and it was mainly when I would get near a keep/many ppl that didnt have time to render).

I have to disagree

I too have a crappy PC during the week with an awesome network connection, and a awesome PC at weekends with a "meh" connection.

Lag due to my duff video card is obvious, but my ping rate is generally around the 20-50 mark and pretty stable. Its a reliable enough indicator of troops comming close way before I see them. So reliable that I can generally stealth before I see them comming round the hill.

It's when they come into view that I get FPS problems due to my PC.

If it were serverwide then I would not see this ping drop, and I would be at the 2-300 ping rate constantly (up to 1k when I am at home)

To be honest, I dont think there is a super computer powerfull enough to run Cryodil as a single instance. The heating alone would make the game a financial loss. The 9 who run one of the top 10 super computers for WoW can still only do it because there is little actual geopgraphy of any size and it is all cut up into little instanced chunks. (its also not a single computer but hey )

A game whose tech I am quite well up on, called "Asherons Call" is the closest to ESO's mega server idea does the same thing as ESO. Single world, made of many overlaping instances.




Whatever, If the other 4 campains with the same ruleset as Azuras are all empty, then it makes sense for Zos to remove them and give the processing power to the Azuras instance so we can get back to the massed combat we used to see.

Taresgos

seems like we(aldmeri) got Auriel's blessing and the r e t r i b u t i o n from our small scale came to all stacked-with-3-organised-raids-in-one-point red and blue enemies tonight at nikel/bridge

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

PVP was funny tonight thought we were gnna need a bigger boat but still managed to overcome the 60+ (counted on this screeny) a few times
Also EDC were mainly / only on Trueflame as far as I know whilst I was away.
ty for the 10k offensive tick we stole at bleakers was the funniest part of the night XD