Every MMO Has One, ESO has the Templar

Fizzlewizzle

@Attorneyatlawl
Wow, your ability to read skill descriptions is indeed good. Just because something is looks amazing on paper doesn't mean it acctually is.

Versitale means nothing if everything is equally ***. The thing Templars are best at (according to you) is based around 1 single skill. Try healing endgame content with Ritual of Rebirth and Repentance... you will KILL your own team doing that.
Ritual of Rebirth takes a long time to cast, and unless you have a team who knows how to work with it you will certainly get killed. Repentence also works great during boss fights... i mean, after you get your team killed you can use their bodies once to heal yourself, as there are generally no dead bodies in boss fights.

Puncering strikes gives away cc immunity, so using that alread disables ALL your CC options (spear shards and eclipse, or anything else you (or your teammates) want to use).

Dark flare hits indeed pretty decent, but you won't ever be able to get a sneak attack with it because the flight time is so long that you are already out of stealth before it hits. It also has a long casting time to boot.

Have you ever noticed the common feature about all "successful" Templar builds...
They hardly possess any Templar skills. Having only 1 or 2 Templar skills doesn't make it a genuine Templar build, it makes it a build which every class can use, with the features pointed out to make it the most successful on a Templar.
The last decent "Templar" build i have seen (on this forum) only had 2 Templar skills, of which one was optional because the only advantages the Templar skill had was an extra stun. NEITHER OF THE TWO SKILLS HE USED TO HEAL HIMSELF WAS A TEMPLAR HEAL! NOT EVEN HIS "OH ***" HEAL!

Still credits to the guy, as it was a interesting build.

tplink3r1

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Dredlord wrote: »

As with players Devs have their favourites. As I have moved from mmo to mmo over the years I have noticed I move from class type to class type as my favourite and sometimes have a distaste for what I played in the last one.

I can't imagine a Dev is any different and of course in every game you can see it, maybe not at first but soon it becomes obvious, there is one class that no one one the team gives a f*** about...

A couple examples I remember most clearly. Vanilla Wow had its Druid, Guildwars 2 has its Necro. I'm sure you can think many others if it was the class you mained in other games

It wasn't so clear to me about the Templar until recently when all of a sudden in the bug compilation thread the message comes for near all of the bugs posted "working as intended".

There is a point where a dev team proves their professionalism and overcomes their bias or doesn't.

There is an overwhelming amount of feedback on these forums about the performance of the class and whether working as intended should be intended.

Will the Dev team allow the console release to happen with a clunky half broken class? a game with only 4 classes and a fraction of the class abilities most MMO's have to balance.

It's time to take notice ZOS, working as intended is not an acceptable answer anymore.

I'm having trouble telling if this is satirical or not. Class balance is actually extremely close at this point in time across most roles. Templars in particular remain the most versatile, but also now as good as every other class in everything except healing, where they excel and do so at a level above the others thanks to extremely strong class-based Breath of Life (which a Dragonknight, often complained about for green dragon blood which is simply 33% of your missing (not total) health, could only dream of having such a high level of instant healing, which not only then hits themselves but also 2 allies for much of the amount, the main target can be crit-healed for upwards of a full health bar on high gear setups), Ritual of Rebirth, and Remembrance. Rune Focus also is great for the extra armor and magicka regen which even works in pvp for example while in mist form as it's a regen "buff".

On the damage front, they have heal jabs which count as several hits against block and are extremely high healing for yourself to boot while often dealing a good chunk of extra damage from a 25% chance at a moderately-sized damage proc from their spear passives, and have Dark Flare which self-Empowers and can sustain extremely high damage while buffing everyone, heal-debuffing all enemies near the target, and damaging the target heavily. Add in Reflective Light for a nice ranged aoe dd+snare that also adds to your spell critical chance, Spear Shards (great utility, and morphed to the ground DoT will proc the spear passive as well) for damage/mez/providing stamina to allies, and a class-based charge+aoe-on-landing (yes, it has its quirks... so does every other charge-type skill in ESO) and Eclipse which morphed not only reflects spells (and now fixed, you don't suffer any skill lockout using it) but also can be cast on multiple enemies to then either explode (Unstable morph) or heal you (the other morph) each time anything is reflected, and in PVP forces the enemy to choose whether to CC break or not cast (either action diminishes their effectiveness), along with others, and you round out one heck of a great package.

There are more good builds and great combinations you can make in ESO than what you see on people's youtube blog-ad sites. Try making some for yourself . I also sincerely doubt any game dev worth their salt has a "bias" or "lack of professionalism" to a class in their game on a project of this scale... there's no reason for them to in the first place, and there's certainly no evidence of such either.

drogon1 wrote: »

Lyzaaa wrote: »

keybaud wrote: »

Everyone needs to stop going on about things being OP and UP. Templar is not disregarded by ZOS and it CAN do very good DPS. Check out "http://Deltiasgaming.com"

He has a build called 'Omega' for Templar DPS and it is insane in PvP for DPS and for PvE. You can also check it out on youtube:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DUIm-vu-cw
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbhFBFYYfs8

So don't complain that Templar is 'Not cared For' and 'Can't do Good DPS' because it can.

roflmao deltia doesnt make pvp builds.Hes a player that plasy 24/7 has top notch gear everything, more experience with the game than anyone, and all he doesis stomp non vet PvP..

I mean i took quick peak at his first build and all he made is a freakin jesus beam bot. It has huge magicka and spell power but that doesnt take a genious to make, you really think such a simple build noone coudl come up with?

It's not a genious solution to the templar issues. In fact if that char goes into cyrodiil, with that low regen and armor, he's gonna get rekt b4 even being able to do anything.

EDIT: noticed the first vid was a PvE built..

the 2nd build does seem to a bit better but nontheless.. well w/e just disregard this im not gonna waste time explaining.. No offense to deltia but he's not the guy to watch PvPing.

Deltia posts PvP builds also, and he's fine to "watch" for PvP as he clearly loves playing the whole game and posting creative builds that he creates himself or learns from others. "all he doesis stomp non vet PvP" - just go away...

Eh, I've looked at one of his builds to see what all the fuss was about and didn't come back impressed, I'll leave it at that. He does re-post a lot of builds he sees on forums as his own (one example being the Sun craze that sparked from his youtube video copied basically wholesale from Wrath here on these forums, which had been around since the patch 1.2 days when trials first came out anyways even to boot). I have also seen many builds mentioned in game guild (trade guild) or zone chats suddenly be talked about as "his new build" by random people in-game hours or days later. Like most streamers, not all of course though, it's more for entertainment purposes than actually learning great builds or in-depth gameplay information. Not that there can't be any good information that does come up, but it's like watching a Linus Tech Tips stream: it's a presentation aimed more at a general audience to be flashy and fun, not targeted for substance. Like I said... there are a million better (and worse) builds you can come up with inside of 15-20 minutes in-game if you just sit a moment and think about how to set up a well-synergized character. Cookie cutter ones found on youtube are great to watch for fun and if you're not really into the game much, a starting point, but otherwise you're much better served making one for yourself in short order.

Follow the usual RPG strategies like you'd find in here, and you'll be in great shape.

Ecplise good? HAHAHA, nice try.

Xsorus

Templar actually is a better stamina toon then dks, probably second best stam user behind nightblade, magicka they are on par with dks with sorcs being best, and nightblades being close 2nd.

Temps problem is same as dks problem, no viable escape

Inactive Account

LoL !!!

I remember in BETA and beyond when everyone shy'd away from the Templar because they were "The Worst " class. With nothing going for them...

Funny how things change.

hedna123b14_ESO

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl
Wow, your ability to read skill descriptions is indeed good. Just because something is looks amazing on paper doesn't mean it acctually is.

Versitale means nothing if everything is equally ***. The thing Templars are best at (according to you) is based around 1 single skill. Try healing endgame content with Ritual of Rebirth and Repentance... you will KILL your own team doing that.
Ritual of Rebirth takes a long time to cast, and unless you have a team who knows how to work with it you will certainly get killed. Repentence also works great during boss fights... i mean, after you get your team killed you can use their bodies once to heal yourself, as there are generally no dead bodies in boss fights.

Puncering strikes gives away cc immunity, so using that alread disables ALL your CC options (spear shards and eclipse, or anything else you (or your teammates) want to use).

Dark flare hits indeed pretty decent, but you won't ever be able to get a sneak attack with it because the flight time is so long that you are already out of stealth before it hits. It also has a long casting time to boot.

Have you ever noticed the common feature about all "successful" Templar builds...
They hardly possess any Templar skills. Having only 1 or 2 Templar skills doesn't make it a genuine Templar build, it makes it a build which every class can use, with the features pointed out to make it the most successful on a Templar.
The last decent "Templar" build i have seen (on this forum) only had 2 Templar skills, of which one was optional because the only advantages the Templar skill had was an extra stun. NEITHER OF THE TWO SKILLS HE USED TO HEAL HIMSELF WAS A TEMPLAR HEAL! NOT EVEN HIS "OH ***" HEAL!

Still credits to the guy, as it was a interesting build.

Inner Light and Structured Entropy is pretty standard for buffing spell damage. Biting Jabs (substitute dark flare), Radiant Oppression and Purifying light are also on my main bar ( thats 3/5 skills being templar skills)...wth are you talking about successful templars barely using templar skills? As for healing breath of life WAS, IS, and WILL BE king in vDSA...trials obviously need aoe heals thus resto staff, but for everything except for trials (who still runs those anyway? everyone got all that gear like last year) Breath of Life is the way to go. I can pull 12-13k in vDSA without trying hard and with focusing on rotation and changing some things around 18-20k is easily done....Can't speak for PvP (nor do I care, I don't play it), but in PvE Templar is amazing...

Dredlord

Xsorus wrote: »

Templar actually is a better stamina toon then dks, probably second best stam user behind nightblade, magicka they are on par with dks with sorcs being best, and nightblades being close 2nd.

Temps problem is same as dks problem, no viable escape

This assessment might be true for pve but it couldn't be farther from the truth for pvp.

Temps have neither an unblockable cc or an escape. Mag or stam a DK has a far easier time setting up a burst combo

for solo play even a sorcs hardened ward is better than our insta heal, it protects from crits and doesnt suffer from healing debuffs by comparison.

Xsorus

Dredlord wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Templar actually is a better stamina toon then dks, probably second best stam user behind nightblade, magicka they are on par with dks with sorcs being best, and nightblades being close 2nd.

Temps problem is same as dks problem, no viable escape

This assessment might be true for pve but it couldn't be farther from the truth for pvp.

Temps have neither an unblockable cc or an escape. Mag or stam a DK has a far easier time setting up a burst combo

for solo play even a sorcs hardened ward is better than our insta heal, it protects from crits and doesnt suffer from healing debuffs by comparison.

Unblockable cc would be those stupid spears you throw up in the air, not that you need it anyway. And dks don't have an escape either so that's not an issue, you also have way more burst potential then a dk could ever hope to achieve on a Templar, the dk basically relies on wrecking blow to do his work which is not the easiest thing to land on competent players. Templats have far more burst potential with the your knockdown/knock back with crit charge (the direct damage passive you have) followed by executioner or piercing jabs. Incredible nasty setup basically. You can even throw in backlash for heavier burst.

Dredlord

Xsorus wrote: »

Dredlord wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Templar actually is a better stamina toon then dks, probably second best stam user behind nightblade, magicka they are on par with dks with sorcs being best, and nightblades being close 2nd.

Temps problem is same as dks problem, no viable escape

This assessment might be true for pve but it couldn't be farther from the truth for pvp.

Temps have neither an unblockable cc or an escape. Mag or stam a DK has a far easier time setting up a burst combo

for solo play even a sorcs hardened ward is better than our insta heal, it protects from crits and doesnt suffer from healing debuffs by comparison.

Unblockable cc would be those stupid spears you throw up in the air, not that you need it anyway. And dks don't have an escape either so that's not an issue, you also have way more burst potential then a dk could ever hope to achieve on a Templar, the dk basically relies on wrecking blow to do his work which is not the easiest thing to land on competent players. Templats have far more burst potential with the your knockdown/knock back with crit charge (the direct damage passive you have) followed by executioner or piercing jabs. Incredible nasty setup basically. You can even throw in backlash for heavier burst.

stupid spears is right lol, you mean the one that randomly stuns somebody? hopefully it's the guy you wanted to stun...

problem is they already have immunity if you are using jabs.

You should probably read up on all the problems these skills you are saying are so great have. The forums are full of threads about them. It's really obvious for anyone that mains a temp that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Xsorus

Dredlord wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Dredlord wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Templar actually is a better stamina toon then dks, probably second best stam user behind nightblade, magicka they are on par with dks with sorcs being best, and nightblades being close 2nd.

Temps problem is same as dks problem, no viable escape

This assessment might be true for pve but it couldn't be farther from the truth for pvp.

Temps have neither an unblockable cc or an escape. Mag or stam a DK has a far easier time setting up a burst combo

for solo play even a sorcs hardened ward is better than our insta heal, it protects from crits and doesnt suffer from healing debuffs by comparison.

Unblockable cc would be those stupid spears you throw up in the air, not that you need it anyway. And dks don't have an escape either so that's not an issue, you also have way more burst potential then a dk could ever hope to achieve on a Templar, the dk basically relies on wrecking blow to do his work which is not the easiest thing to land on competent players. Templats have far more burst potential with the your knockdown/knock back with crit charge (the direct damage passive you have) followed by executioner or piercing jabs. Incredible nasty setup basically. You can even throw in backlash for heavier burst.

stupid spears is right lol, you mean the one that randomly stuns somebody? hopefully it's the guy you wanted to stun...

problem is they already have immunity if you are using jabs.

You should probably read up on all the problems these skills you are saying are so great have. The forums are full of threads about them. It's really obvious for anyone that mains a temp that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Don't open with jabs, basically open with piercing javelin, jabs should only be used when they have immunity basically.
Also what are you going on about on spears, if you are upset that it only works on one person I dont know what to tell ya, fossilize works on one person also, and if you think burning talons is useful I assure its not, it basically works good on one class right now and that's magicka dk, anyone stamina based is just going to dodge roll out of it, sorcs just ignore it and nightblades can just dark cloak curing the dot.

Either way templars have probably the second best burst combo for stamina behind nightblades, the only thing they suffer from is lack of an escape

Dredlord

Xsorus wrote: »

Dredlord wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Dredlord wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Templar actually is a better stamina toon then dks, probably second best stam user behind nightblade, magicka they are on par with dks with sorcs being best, and nightblades being close 2nd.

Temps problem is same as dks problem, no viable escape

This assessment might be true for pve but it couldn't be farther from the truth for pvp.

Temps have neither an unblockable cc or an escape. Mag or stam a DK has a far easier time setting up a burst combo

for solo play even a sorcs hardened ward is better than our insta heal, it protects from crits and doesnt suffer from healing debuffs by comparison.

Unblockable cc would be those stupid spears you throw up in the air, not that you need it anyway. And dks don't have an escape either so that's not an issue, you also have way more burst potential then a dk could ever hope to achieve on a Templar, the dk basically relies on wrecking blow to do his work which is not the easiest thing to land on competent players. Templats have far more burst potential with the your knockdown/knock back with crit charge (the direct damage passive you have) followed by executioner or piercing jabs. Incredible nasty setup basically. You can even throw in backlash for heavier burst.

stupid spears is right lol, you mean the one that randomly stuns somebody? hopefully it's the guy you wanted to stun...

problem is they already have immunity if you are using jabs.

You should probably read up on all the problems these skills you are saying are so great have. The forums are full of threads about them. It's really obvious for anyone that mains a temp that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Don't open with jabs, basically open with piercing javelin, jabs should only be used when they have immunity basically.
Also what are you going on about on spears, if you are upset that it only works on one person I dont know what to tell ya, fossilize works on one person also, and if you think burning talons is useful I assure its not, it basically works good on one class right now and that's magicka dk, anyone stamina based is just going to dodge roll out of it, sorcs just ignore it and nightblades can just dark cloak curing the dot.

Either way templars have probably the second best burst combo for stamina behind nightblades, the only thing they suffer from is lack of an escape

I realize you are trying to help...thank you for trying

Your advice is useless because you dont understand the issues temps have, I'll try to explain so you don't waste anyones time in this thread again

OF COURSE YOU DONT OPEN WITH JABS, the problem is you get full duration immunity for a fraction of second stagger. You can start your jabs while they have immunity still and give them immunity again the moment it ends. It's basically free perma CC immunity for the enemy. I would be better if it had no stagger at all.

Yes thank you for informing the world spears and fossilize both only cc one person. The great thing about fossilize is you never have to guess who that will be. It's like winning the lottery when I toss a spear up in a group fight and it actually stuns the low health blocking guy.

timidobserver

You can get the job done on a Templar regardless of what you are doing(pve, pvp, solo, heal, dps, tank, ect), which is nice because it wasn't always the case, but healing is the only thing we truly excel at. If you are trying to min/max your group for optimal performance, you want DK or NB DPS at the moment. Templar tanks are awesome, but given Magma Armor(can single handedly save the day), Talons, and GDB, you probably want a DK Tank.

As far as PvP goes, you can be extremely successful on a Templar, but for optimal performance you probably want to be a Sorc or NB right now.

Xsorus

Dredlord wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Dredlord wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Dredlord wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Templar actually is a better stamina toon then dks, probably second best stam user behind nightblade, magicka they are on par with dks with sorcs being best, and nightblades being close 2nd.

Temps problem is same as dks problem, no viable escape

This assessment might be true for pve but it couldn't be farther from the truth for pvp.

Temps have neither an unblockable cc or an escape. Mag or stam a DK has a far easier time setting up a burst combo

for solo play even a sorcs hardened ward is better than our insta heal, it protects from crits and doesnt suffer from healing debuffs by comparison.

Unblockable cc would be those stupid spears you throw up in the air, not that you need it anyway. And dks don't have an escape either so that's not an issue, you also have way more burst potential then a dk could ever hope to achieve on a Templar, the dk basically relies on wrecking blow to do his work which is not the easiest thing to land on competent players. Templats have far more burst potential with the your knockdown/knock back with crit charge (the direct damage passive you have) followed by executioner or piercing jabs. Incredible nasty setup basically. You can even throw in backlash for heavier burst.

stupid spears is right lol, you mean the one that randomly stuns somebody? hopefully it's the guy you wanted to stun...

problem is they already have immunity if you are using jabs.

You should probably read up on all the problems these skills you are saying are so great have. The forums are full of threads about them. It's really obvious for anyone that mains a temp that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Don't open with jabs, basically open with piercing javelin, jabs should only be used when they have immunity basically.
Also what are you going on about on spears, if you are upset that it only works on one person I dont know what to tell ya, fossilize works on one person also, and if you think burning talons is useful I assure its not, it basically works good on one class right now and that's magicka dk, anyone stamina based is just going to dodge roll out of it, sorcs just ignore it and nightblades can just dark cloak curing the dot.

Either way templars have probably the second best burst combo for stamina behind nightblades, the only thing they suffer from is lack of an escape

I realize you are trying to help...thank you for trying

Your advice is useless because you dont understand the issues temps have, I'll try to explain so you don't waste anyones time in this thread again

OF COURSE YOU DONT OPEN WITH JABS, the problem is you get full duration immunity for a fraction of second stagger. You can start your jabs while they have immunity still and give them immunity again the moment it ends. It's basically free perma CC immunity for the enemy. I would be better if it had no stagger at all.

Yes thank you for informing the world spears and fossilize both only cc one person. The great thing about fossilize is you never have to guess who that will be. It's like winning the lottery when I toss a spear up in a group fight and it actually stuns the low health blocking guy.

Chances are if you do the right combo on the Templar most people will not be alive to get that immunity from jabs, the damage is incredibly high. As for no stagger I'd have no problem with that but it still doesn't change the fact stam Templar is second best stam toon right now. As for spears you can easily go for whoever you hit with it even if it's random, though frankly people will probably break it like they do fossilize. Dks pretty much have to rely on fossilize cause of wrecking blow right now.

cazlonb16_ESO

Xsorus wrote: »

Don't open with jabs, basically open with piercing javelin

Javelin is notoriously unreliable in PvP. The CC will rarely be applied even to people not dodging and with no swirlies.

Last time I've been hit with it must have been sometime last year and that's usually a pretty good indication the skill is terrible.

Xsorus

timidobserver wrote: »

You can get the job done on a Templar regardless of what you are doing(pve, pvp, solo, heal, dps, tank, ect), which is nice because it wasn't always the case, but healing is the only thing we truly excel at. If you are trying to min/max your group for optimal performance, you want DK or NB DPS at the moment. Templar tanks are awesome, but given Magma Armor(can single handedly save the day), Talons, and GDB, you probably want a DK Tank.

As far as PvP goes, you can be extremely successful on a Templar, but for optimal performance you probably want to be a Sorc or NB right now.

Magma armor is kind of meh to be honest, you are better off running something like clouding swarm and wrecking blow people in the face. If you are playing a stam based dk you will be wanting to use dodge a lot as any sort of damage, even small amounts will result in your death. Hell even take flight might be better then it. I know someone will say what about the armor debuff? If you run sharpened and a 2 handed mace you will ignore most of the armor people have anyway.

Valije

As someone who played a stamina based NB from the start... what are you talking about?

Fizzlewizzle

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl
Wow, your ability to read skill descriptions is indeed good. Just because something is looks amazing on paper doesn't mean it actually is.

Versatile means nothing if everything is equally ***. The thing Templars are best at (according to you) is based around 1 single skill. Try healing endgame content with Ritual of Rebirth and Repentance... you will KILL your own team doing that.
Ritual of Rebirth takes a long time to cast, and unless you have a team who knows how to work with it you will certainly get killed. Repentance also works great during boss fights... i mean, after you get your team killed you can use their bodies once to heal yourself, as there are generally no dead bodies in boss fights.

Puncturing strikes gives away cc immunity, so using that already disables ALL your CC options (spear shards and eclipse, or anything else you (or your teammates) want to use).

Dark flare hits indeed pretty decent, but you won't ever be able to get a sneak attack with it because the flight time is so long that you are already out of stealth before it hits. It also has a long casting time to boot.

Have you ever noticed the common feature about all "successful" Templar builds...
They hardly possess any Templar skills. Having only 1 or 2 Templar skills doesn't make it a genuine Templar build, it makes it a build which every class can use, with the features pointed out to make it the most successful on a Templar.
The last decent "Templar" build i have seen (on this forum) only had 2 Templar skills, of which one was optional because the only advantages the Templar skill had was an extra stun. NEITHER OF THE TWO SKILLS HE USED TO HEAL HIMSELF WAS A TEMPLAR HEAL! NOT EVEN HIS "OH ***" HEAL!

Still credits to the guy, as it was a interesting build.

Inner Light and Structured Entropy is pretty standard for buffing spell damage. Biting Jabs (substitute dark flare), Radiant Oppression and Purifying light are also on my main bar ( thats 3/5 skills being templar skills)...wth are you talking about successful templars barely using templar skills? As for healing breath of life WAS, IS, and WILL BE king in vDSA...trials obviously need aoe heals thus resto staff, but for everything except for trials (who still runs those anyway? everyone got all that gear like last year) Breath of Life is the way to go. I can pull 12-13k in vDSA without trying hard and with focusing on rotation and changing some things around 18-20k is easily done....Can't speak for PvP (nor do I care, I don't play it), but in PvE Templar is amazing...

Try that set-up in PvP, it won't work.
Having a decent set-up in PvE isn't that hard. I have had 1001 ridiculous set-ups myself, which all functioned fantastic in PvE. The second however you step into PvP your builds are worthless, as nothing stand still for you to pull of your squishy high DPS rotation.

I don't have any problems with the skills you mentioned, as they are the bread and butter for my Templar as well (in PvE), but the guy i addressed was singing and praising about skills like Healing Ritual (which i doubt you, in your right mind, will ever use in something like vDSA) as well as combo-ing skills which can't be combo-ed as they all give the enemies CC immunity.

Half the people who talk here seem to only play a Templar in PvE, where as i already mentioned they are decent and without lots of problems. Especially if you choose to run something like a Stamina Build (refer to this topic).

The thing Templars are best at (healing), as @Attorneyatlawl and @timidobserver (and a few others) mentioned, got nerfed Quite exponentially in the past because the other classes found it unfair that a class with a pure healing tree out healed people with a Restoration staff. They still do (a bit, as other classes became more viable in healing also), but they stripped away all synergies the Restoration staff tree had with the Restoring Light tree, as well as greatly nerfed quite a lot of Restoring Light skills making them less viable compared to the Restoration staff (including the Ultimate).
In PvP a Templar is only viable as a healer, or you will end up with the builds i mentioned before (the ones without any Templar skills). That is not the way it should be.

hedna123b14_ESO

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl
Wow, your ability to read skill descriptions is indeed good. Just because something is looks amazing on paper doesn't mean it actually is.

Versatile means nothing if everything is equally ***. The thing Templars are best at (according to you) is based around 1 single skill. Try healing endgame content with Ritual of Rebirth and Repentance... you will KILL your own team doing that.
Ritual of Rebirth takes a long time to cast, and unless you have a team who knows how to work with it you will certainly get killed. Repentance also works great during boss fights... i mean, after you get your team killed you can use their bodies once to heal yourself, as there are generally no dead bodies in boss fights.

Puncturing strikes gives away cc immunity, so using that already disables ALL your CC options (spear shards and eclipse, or anything else you (or your teammates) want to use).

Dark flare hits indeed pretty decent, but you won't ever be able to get a sneak attack with it because the flight time is so long that you are already out of stealth before it hits. It also has a long casting time to boot.

Have you ever noticed the common feature about all "successful" Templar builds...
They hardly possess any Templar skills. Having only 1 or 2 Templar skills doesn't make it a genuine Templar build, it makes it a build which every class can use, with the features pointed out to make it the most successful on a Templar.
The last decent "Templar" build i have seen (on this forum) only had 2 Templar skills, of which one was optional because the only advantages the Templar skill had was an extra stun. NEITHER OF THE TWO SKILLS HE USED TO HEAL HIMSELF WAS A TEMPLAR HEAL! NOT EVEN HIS "OH ***" HEAL!

Still credits to the guy, as it was a interesting build.

Inner Light and Structured Entropy is pretty standard for buffing spell damage. Biting Jabs (substitute dark flare), Radiant Oppression and Purifying light are also on my main bar ( thats 3/5 skills being templar skills)...wth are you talking about successful templars barely using templar skills? As for healing breath of life WAS, IS, and WILL BE king in vDSA...trials obviously need aoe heals thus resto staff, but for everything except for trials (who still runs those anyway? everyone got all that gear like last year) Breath of Life is the way to go. I can pull 12-13k in vDSA without trying hard and with focusing on rotation and changing some things around 18-20k is easily done....Can't speak for PvP (nor do I care, I don't play it), but in PvE Templar is amazing...

Try that set-up in PvP, it won't work.
Having a decent set-up in PvE isn't that hard. I have had 1001 ridiculous set-ups myself, which all functioned fantastic in PvE. The second however you step into PvP your builds are worthless, as nothing stand still for you to pull of your squishy high DPS rotation.

I don't have any problems with the skills you mentioned, as they are the bread and butter for my Templar as well (in PvE), but the guy i addressed was singing and praising about skills like Healing Ritual (which i doubt you, in your right mind, will ever use in something like vDSA) as well as combo-ing skills which can't be combo-ed as they all give the enemies CC immunity.

Half the people who talk here seem to only play a Templar in PvE, where as i already mentioned they are decent and without lots of problems. Especially if you choose to run something like a Stamina Build (refer to this topic).

The thing Templars are best at (healing), as @Attorneyatlawl and @timidobserver (and a few others) mentioned, got nerfed Quite exponentially in the past because the other classes found it unfair that a class with a pure healing tree out healed people with a Restoration staff. They still do (a bit, as other classes became more viable in healing also), but they stripped away all synergies the Restoration staff tree had with the Restoring Light tree, as well as greatly nerfed quite a lot of Restoring Light skills making them less viable compared to the Restoration staff (including the Ultimate).
In PvP a Templar is only viable as a healer, or you will end up with the builds i mentioned before (the ones without any Templar skills). That is not the way it should be.

Ok I havent done any PvP as I've said, so those issues may be the case...I'll wait till imperial city hits to make my PvP entrance...

Uberkull

Heromofo wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Every MMO has a class called Templar that they have no idea what to do with them. They sad thing is ive picked it on every game...

Uuum paladin in wow was an insane tank,healer and a deadly pvper dps.

Yea, this. Paladin was the king of 'working as intended'. Blizzard lead game designer even posted often on the forum supporting his decisions on nerfing the paladin....:)

Forget his forum name....wait, I got it 'Ghost Crawler'.

Refreshing when actual dev leads come to the forum and mingle with the players.

glak

uberkull wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Every MMO has a class called Templar that they have no idea what to do with them. They sad thing is ive picked it on every game...

Uuum paladin in wow was an insane tank,healer and a deadly pvper dps.

Yea, this. Paladin was the king of 'working as intended'. Blizzard lead game designer even posted often on the forum supporting his decisions on nerfing the paladin....:)

Forget his forum name....wait, I got it 'Ghost Crawler'.

Refreshing when actual dev leads come to the forum and mingle with the players.

I liked reading Ghost Crawler's posts. While I usually disagreed with his posts, at least I understood the what was intentional.

On here, I can't tell if it's
what the devs want to say for the good of their game (basically what we want to hear on bugs) OR
a reversal in wait due to a management decision.
And it's getting annoying fast. It's as if they recently discovered that stuff is getting too difficult to fix and say "I don't see a problem with it"

For the working as intended's, they might as well modify a bunch of tool tips again, but for the console release.

blabafat

Chances are if you do the right combo on the Templar most people will not be alive to get that immunity from jabs, the damage is incredibly high. As for no stagger I'd have no problem with that but it still doesn't change the fact stam Templar is second best stam toon right now. As for spears you can easily go for whoever you hit with it even if it's random, though frankly people will probably break it like they do fossilize. Dks pretty much have to rely on fossilize cause of wrecking blow right now.

Ok, stam jabs hurts a TON. What about magicka templar?

Attorneyatlawl

blabafat wrote: »

Chances are if you do the right combo on the Templar most people will not be alive to get that immunity from jabs, the damage is incredibly high. As for no stagger I'd have no problem with that but it still doesn't change the fact stam Templar is second best stam toon right now. As for spears you can easily go for whoever you hit with it even if it's random, though frankly people will probably break it like they do fossilize. Dks pretty much have to rely on fossilize cause of wrecking blow right now.

Ok, stam jabs hurts a TON. What about magicka templar?

Both are great in pve and pvp... and heal jabs are arguably the better morph in the first place which is the Magicka version. To the guy laughing about the huge ritual of rebirth heal for pvp and dark flare (a self empowering nuke that can be made to hit harder than crystal fragments, heal rebuffs everyone near and including the target, and more), it's little wonder you're complaining about Templar power levels if you don't even use those kinds of major skills.

Attorneyatlawl

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Dredlord wrote: »

As with players Devs have their favourites. As I have moved from mmo to mmo over the years I have noticed I move from class type to class type as my favourite and sometimes have a distaste for what I played in the last one.

I can't imagine a Dev is any different and of course in every game you can see it, maybe not at first but soon it becomes obvious, there is one class that no one one the team gives a f*** about...

A couple examples I remember most clearly. Vanilla Wow had its Druid, Guildwars 2 has its Necro. I'm sure you can think many others if it was the class you mained in other games

It wasn't so clear to me about the Templar until recently when all of a sudden in the bug compilation thread the message comes for near all of the bugs posted "working as intended".

There is a point where a dev team proves their professionalism and overcomes their bias or doesn't.

There is an overwhelming amount of feedback on these forums about the performance of the class and whether working as intended should be intended.

Will the Dev team allow the console release to happen with a clunky half broken class? a game with only 4 classes and a fraction of the class abilities most MMO's have to balance.

It's time to take notice ZOS, working as intended is not an acceptable answer anymore.

I'm having trouble telling if this is satirical or not. Class balance is actually extremely close at this point in time across most roles. Templars in particular remain the most versatile, but also now as good as every other class in everything except healing, where they excel and do so at a level above the others thanks to extremely strong class-based Breath of Life (which a Dragonknight, often complained about for green dragon blood which is simply 33% of your missing (not total) health, could only dream of having such a high level of instant healing, which not only then hits themselves but also 2 allies for much of the amount, the main target can be crit-healed for upwards of a full health bar on high gear setups), Ritual of Rebirth, and Remembrance. Rune Focus also is great for the extra armor and magicka regen which even works in pvp for example while in mist form as it's a regen "buff".

On the damage front, they have heal jabs which count as several hits against block and are extremely high healing for yourself to boot while often dealing a good chunk of extra damage from a 25% chance at a moderately-sized damage proc from their spear passives, and have Dark Flare which self-Empowers and can sustain extremely high damage while buffing everyone, heal-debuffing all enemies near the target, and damaging the target heavily. Add in Reflective Light for a nice ranged aoe dd+snare that also adds to your spell critical chance, Spear Shards (great utility, and morphed to the ground DoT will proc the spear passive as well) for damage/mez/providing stamina to allies, and a class-based charge+aoe-on-landing (yes, it has its quirks... so does every other charge-type skill in ESO) and Eclipse which morphed not only reflects spells (and now fixed, you don't suffer any skill lockout using it) but also can be cast on multiple enemies to then either explode (Unstable morph) or heal you (the other morph) each time anything is reflected, and in PVP forces the enemy to choose whether to CC break or not cast (either action diminishes their effectiveness), along with others, and you round out one heck of a great package.

There are more good builds and great combinations you can make in ESO than what you see on people's youtube blog-ad sites. Try making some for yourself . I also sincerely doubt any game dev worth their salt has a "bias" or "lack of professionalism" to a class in their game on a project of this scale... there's no reason for them to in the first place, and there's certainly no evidence of such either.

drogon1 wrote: »

Lyzaaa wrote: »

keybaud wrote: »

Everyone needs to stop going on about things being OP and UP. Templar is not disregarded by ZOS and it CAN do very good DPS. Check out "http://Deltiasgaming.com"

He has a build called 'Omega' for Templar DPS and it is insane in PvP for DPS and for PvE. You can also check it out on youtube:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DUIm-vu-cw
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbhFBFYYfs8

So don't complain that Templar is 'Not cared For' and 'Can't do Good DPS' because it can.

roflmao deltia doesnt make pvp builds.Hes a player that plasy 24/7 has top notch gear everything, more experience with the game than anyone, and all he doesis stomp non vet PvP..

I mean i took quick peak at his first build and all he made is a freakin jesus beam bot. It has huge magicka and spell power but that doesnt take a genious to make, you really think such a simple build noone coudl come up with?

It's not a genious solution to the templar issues. In fact if that char goes into cyrodiil, with that low regen and armor, he's gonna get rekt b4 even being able to do anything.

EDIT: noticed the first vid was a PvE built..

the 2nd build does seem to a bit better but nontheless.. well w/e just disregard this im not gonna waste time explaining.. No offense to deltia but he's not the guy to watch PvPing.

Deltia posts PvP builds also, and he's fine to "watch" for PvP as he clearly loves playing the whole game and posting creative builds that he creates himself or learns from others. "all he doesis stomp non vet PvP" - just go away...

Eh, I've looked at one of his builds to see what all the fuss was about and didn't come back impressed, I'll leave it at that. He does re-post a lot of builds he sees on forums as his own (one example being the Sun craze that sparked from his youtube video copied basically wholesale from Wrath here on these forums, which had been around since the patch 1.2 days when trials first came out anyways even to boot). I have also seen many builds mentioned in game guild (trade guild) or zone chats suddenly be talked about as "his new build" by random people in-game hours or days later. Like most streamers, not all of course though, it's more for entertainment purposes than actually learning great builds or in-depth gameplay information. Not that there can't be any good information that does come up, but it's like watching a Linus Tech Tips stream: it's a presentation aimed more at a general audience to be flashy and fun, not targeted for substance. Like I said... there are a million better (and worse) builds you can come up with inside of 15-20 minutes in-game if you just sit a moment and think about how to set up a well-synergized character. Cookie cutter ones found on youtube are great to watch for fun and if you're not really into the game much, a starting point, but otherwise you're much better served making one for yourself in short order.

Follow the usual RPG strategies like you'd find in here, and you'll be in great shape.

Ecplise good? HAHAHA, nice try.

Let me guess, you think the dragonknight's reflective scale is good, but think Total Dark (eclipse) sucks....? Despite having no projectile limit and a higher duration you can slap on multiple people instantly with no giant "Don't shoot me, I'm reflecting!" wings showing off like a jumbo tron sign, and Total Dark healing a good bit for you each time it reflects, and affecting them against all targets instead of just the caster? Oh and it acts as a nice resource denial to boot.

So many Templar mains complaining yet they don't even think Luminous Shards is targetable, despite how simple it is and well known that I know and I haven't mained a Templar even in beta, just played alongside a lot of good ones. That's pretty bad to be complaining and demanding major balance changes when you don't even know the basics of your own primarily played class!

timidobserver

Xsorus wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

You can get the job done on a Templar regardless of what you are doing(pve, pvp, solo, heal, dps, tank, ect), which is nice because it wasn't always the case, but healing is the only thing we truly excel at. If you are trying to min/max your group for optimal performance, you want DK or NB DPS at the moment. Templar tanks are awesome, but given Magma Armor(can single handedly save the day), Talons, and GDB, you probably want a DK Tank.

As far as PvP goes, you can be extremely successful on a Templar, but for optimal performance you probably want to be a Sorc or NB right now.

Magma armor is kind of meh to be honest, you are better off running something like clouding swarm and wrecking blow people in the face. If you are playing a stam based dk you will be wanting to use dodge a lot as any sort of damage, even small amounts will result in your death. Hell even take flight might be better then it. I know someone will say what about the armor debuff? If you run sharpened and a 2 handed mace you will ignore most of the armor people have anyway.

I was definitely was referring to PVE when I mentioned magma armor.

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl
Wow, your ability to read skill descriptions is indeed good. Just because something is looks amazing on paper doesn't mean it actually is.

Versatile means nothing if everything is equally ***. The thing Templars are best at (according to you) is based around 1 single skill. Try healing endgame content with Ritual of Rebirth and Repentance... you will KILL your own team doing that.
Ritual of Rebirth takes a long time to cast, and unless you have a team who knows how to work with it you will certainly get killed. Repentance also works great during boss fights... i mean, after you get your team killed you can use their bodies once to heal yourself, as there are generally no dead bodies in boss fights.

Puncturing strikes gives away cc immunity, so using that already disables ALL your CC options (spear shards and eclipse, or anything else you (or your teammates) want to use).

Dark flare hits indeed pretty decent, but you won't ever be able to get a sneak attack with it because the flight time is so long that you are already out of stealth before it hits. It also has a long casting time to boot.

Have you ever noticed the common feature about all "successful" Templar builds...
They hardly possess any Templar skills. Having only 1 or 2 Templar skills doesn't make it a genuine Templar build, it makes it a build which every class can use, with the features pointed out to make it the most successful on a Templar.
The last decent "Templar" build i have seen (on this forum) only had 2 Templar skills, of which one was optional because the only advantages the Templar skill had was an extra stun. NEITHER OF THE TWO SKILLS HE USED TO HEAL HIMSELF WAS A TEMPLAR HEAL! NOT EVEN HIS "OH ***" HEAL!

Still credits to the guy, as it was a interesting build.

Inner Light and Structured Entropy is pretty standard for buffing spell damage. Biting Jabs (substitute dark flare), Radiant Oppression and Purifying light are also on my main bar ( thats 3/5 skills being templar skills)...wth are you talking about successful templars barely using templar skills? As for healing breath of life WAS, IS, and WILL BE king in vDSA...trials obviously need aoe heals thus resto staff, but for everything except for trials (who still runs those anyway? everyone got all that gear like last year) Breath of Life is the way to go. I can pull 12-13k in vDSA without trying hard and with focusing on rotation and changing some things around 18-20k is easily done....Can't speak for PvP (nor do I care, I don't play it), but in PvE Templar is amazing...

The thing Templars are best at (healing), as @Attorneyatlawl and @timidobserver (and a few others) mentioned, got nerfed Quite exponentially in the past because the other classes found it unfair that a class with a pure healing tree out healed people with a Restoration staff. They still do (a bit, as other classes became more viable in healing also), but they stripped away all synergies the Restoration staff tree had with the Restoring Light tree, as well as greatly nerfed quite a lot of Restoring Light skills making them less viable compared to the Restoration staff (including the Ultimate).
In PvP a Templar is only viable as a healer, or you will end up with the builds i mentioned before (the ones without any Templar skills). That is not the way it should be.

I was referring primarily to our performance capability at the moment. We can heal all content just fine at the moment and we do it better than most of the other classes. Of course that doesn't mean a whole lot given that healers only fill 1 or 2 slots in a group. Performance aside, I agree completely that the restoring light tree is pretty bad at the moment. Healing Ritual is horrible and they destroyed radiant aura in 1.6.

On PvP, like I said, NB and Sorc have a pretty significant advantage right now, but you can be successful on a Templar without healing and with Templar skills on your bar.

eliisra

Xsorus wrote: »

Chances are if you do the right combo on the Templar most people will not be alive to get that immunity from jabs, the damage is incredibly high. As for no stagger I'd have no problem with that but it still doesn't change the fact stam Templar is second best stam toon right now. As for spears you can easily go for whoever you hit with it even if it's random, though frankly people will probably break it like they do fossilize. Dks pretty much have to rely on fossilize cause of wrecking blow right now.

Agreed, stam jab is crazy dps. If you open with another cc, you can sort of avoid the immunity from the puny knock back.

But the spear no. You clearly haven't played templar if you think you can use it 1v1 or even small scale freely. Like many other templar skills it has insane travelling time. Magicka templar slow projectiles is a problem.

Only reason DK's get speared is because they stand in one place and block, same with stacking spam raids.

You can not use Blazing Spear against moving targets period. By that I dont mean dodge, blink, sprint or with major expedition targets. I mean someone slowly walking, even back-peddling. You cannot hit them unless rooted or cc'ed, by a friendly. Have to drop the Spear where you "think" the target will be standing once the longer than life travelling animation is over. Which is totally rng and usually doesn't work.

It's the curse of templar, everything is slow, clunky, feels buggy, with animation delay or gcd. Could really use a class dev, to make the class feel more smooth and fun in combat. All classes could use that really.

Attorneyatlawl

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl
Wow, your ability to read skill descriptions is indeed good. Just because something is looks amazing on paper doesn't mean it actually is.

Versatile means nothing if everything is equally ***. The thing Templars are best at (according to you) is based around 1 single skill. Try healing endgame content with Ritual of Rebirth and Repentance... you will KILL your own team doing that.
Ritual of Rebirth takes a long time to cast, and unless you have a team who knows how to work with it you will certainly get killed. Repentance also works great during boss fights... i mean, after you get your team killed you can use their bodies once to heal yourself, as there are generally no dead bodies in boss fights.

Puncturing strikes gives away cc immunity, so using that already disables ALL your CC options (spear shards and eclipse, or anything else you (or your teammates) want to use).

Dark flare hits indeed pretty decent, but you won't ever be able to get a sneak attack with it because the flight time is so long that you are already out of stealth before it hits. It also has a long casting time to boot.

Have you ever noticed the common feature about all "successful" Templar builds...
They hardly possess any Templar skills. Having only 1 or 2 Templar skills doesn't make it a genuine Templar build, it makes it a build which every class can use, with the features pointed out to make it the most successful on a Templar.
The last decent "Templar" build i have seen (on this forum) only had 2 Templar skills, of which one was optional because the only advantages the Templar skill had was an extra stun. NEITHER OF THE TWO SKILLS HE USED TO HEAL HIMSELF WAS A TEMPLAR HEAL! NOT EVEN HIS "OH ***" HEAL!

Still credits to the guy, as it was a interesting build.

Inner Light and Structured Entropy is pretty standard for buffing spell damage. Biting Jabs (substitute dark flare), Radiant Oppression and Purifying light are also on my main bar ( thats 3/5 skills being templar skills)...wth are you talking about successful templars barely using templar skills? As for healing breath of life WAS, IS, and WILL BE king in vDSA...trials obviously need aoe heals thus resto staff, but for everything except for trials (who still runs those anyway? everyone got all that gear like last year) Breath of Life is the way to go. I can pull 12-13k in vDSA without trying hard and with focusing on rotation and changing some things around 18-20k is easily done....Can't speak for PvP (nor do I care, I don't play it), but in PvE Templar is amazing...

Try that set-up in PvP, it won't work.
Having a decent set-up in PvE isn't that hard. I have had 1001 ridiculous set-ups myself, which all functioned fantastic in PvE. The second however you step into PvP your builds are worthless, as nothing stand still for you to pull of your squishy high DPS rotation.

I don't have any problems with the skills you mentioned, as they are the bread and butter for my Templar as well (in PvE), but the guy i addressed was singing and praising about skills like Healing Ritual (which i doubt you, in your right mind, will ever use in something like vDSA) as well as combo-ing skills which can't be combo-ed as they all give the enemies CC immunity.

Half the people who talk here seem to only play a Templar in PvE, where as i already mentioned they are decent and without lots of problems. Especially if you choose to run something like a Stamina Build (refer to this topic).

The thing Templars are best at (healing), as @Attorneyatlawl and @timidobserver (and a few others) mentioned, got nerfed Quite exponentially in the past because the other classes found it unfair that a class with a pure healing tree out healed people with a Restoration staff. They still do (a bit, as other classes became more viable in healing also), but they stripped away all synergies the Restoration staff tree had with the Restoring Light tree, as well as greatly nerfed quite a lot of Restoring Light skills making them less viable compared to the Restoration staff (including the Ultimate).
In PvP a Templar is only viable as a healer, or you will end up with the builds i mentioned before (the ones without any Templar skills). That is not the way it should be.

Yeah, Mägicka builds don't get sneak attacks. That is kind of our thing not to, but instead we get high consistent damage nd don't share our resource pool with our defense. And you're tacitly incorrect on Templar class healing. Breath of Life outdoes everything in the game, including even a low health DK using dragon blood on themselves, while also being able to frit and doing half healing to two additional targets. Ritual of Rebirth is a slightly longer cast than most projectile nukes but heals at a huge level with low resource cost and in an aoe around you. Both of the restoring light ultimate morphs rock, but I and most give the edge to Remembrance as the flat 23% damage reduction for allies is worth losing two seconds on the healing, which is already the most Healing Per Second obtainable in the entire game for your group while also having a fairly low Ultimate cost at 117 after the 4%passive reduction Templars have.

timidobserver

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl
Wow, your ability to read skill descriptions is indeed good. Just because something is looks amazing on paper doesn't mean it actually is.

Versatile means nothing if everything is equally ***. The thing Templars are best at (according to you) is based around 1 single skill. Try healing endgame content with Ritual of Rebirth and Repentance... you will KILL your own team doing that.
Ritual of Rebirth takes a long time to cast, and unless you have a team who knows how to work with it you will certainly get killed. Repentance also works great during boss fights... i mean, after you get your team killed you can use their bodies once to heal yourself, as there are generally no dead bodies in boss fights.

Puncturing strikes gives away cc immunity, so using that already disables ALL your CC options (spear shards and eclipse, or anything else you (or your teammates) want to use).

Dark flare hits indeed pretty decent, but you won't ever be able to get a sneak attack with it because the flight time is so long that you are already out of stealth before it hits. It also has a long casting time to boot.

Have you ever noticed the common feature about all "successful" Templar builds...
They hardly possess any Templar skills. Having only 1 or 2 Templar skills doesn't make it a genuine Templar build, it makes it a build which every class can use, with the features pointed out to make it the most successful on a Templar.
The last decent "Templar" build i have seen (on this forum) only had 2 Templar skills, of which one was optional because the only advantages the Templar skill had was an extra stun. NEITHER OF THE TWO SKILLS HE USED TO HEAL HIMSELF WAS A TEMPLAR HEAL! NOT EVEN HIS "OH ***" HEAL!

Still credits to the guy, as it was a interesting build.

Inner Light and Structured Entropy is pretty standard for buffing spell damage. Biting Jabs (substitute dark flare), Radiant Oppression and Purifying light are also on my main bar ( thats 3/5 skills being templar skills)...wth are you talking about successful templars barely using templar skills? As for healing breath of life WAS, IS, and WILL BE king in vDSA...trials obviously need aoe heals thus resto staff, but for everything except for trials (who still runs those anyway? everyone got all that gear like last year) Breath of Life is the way to go. I can pull 12-13k in vDSA without trying hard and with focusing on rotation and changing some things around 18-20k is easily done....Can't speak for PvP (nor do I care, I don't play it), but in PvE Templar is amazing...

Try that set-up in PvP, it won't work.
Having a decent set-up in PvE isn't that hard. I have had 1001 ridiculous set-ups myself, which all functioned fantastic in PvE. The second however you step into PvP your builds are worthless, as nothing stand still for you to pull of your squishy high DPS rotation.

I don't have any problems with the skills you mentioned, as they are the bread and butter for my Templar as well (in PvE), but the guy i addressed was singing and praising about skills like Healing Ritual (which i doubt you, in your right mind, will ever use in something like vDSA) as well as combo-ing skills which can't be combo-ed as they all give the enemies CC immunity.

Half the people who talk here seem to only play a Templar in PvE, where as i already mentioned they are decent and without lots of problems. Especially if you choose to run something like a Stamina Build (refer to this topic).

The thing Templars are best at (healing), as @Attorneyatlawl and @timidobserver (and a few others) mentioned, got nerfed Quite exponentially in the past because the other classes found it unfair that a class with a pure healing tree out healed people with a Restoration staff. They still do (a bit, as other classes became more viable in healing also), but they stripped away all synergies the Restoration staff tree had with the Restoring Light tree, as well as greatly nerfed quite a lot of Restoring Light skills making them less viable compared to the Restoration staff (including the Ultimate).
In PvP a Templar is only viable as a healer, or you will end up with the builds i mentioned before (the ones without any Templar skills). That is not the way it should be.

Yeah, Mägicka builds don't get sneak attacks. That is kind of our thing not to, but instead we get high consistent damage nd don't share our resource pool with our defense. And you're tacitly incorrect on Templar class healing. Breath of Life outdoes everything in the game, including even a low health DK using dragon blood on themselves, while also being able to frit and doing half healing to two additional targets. Ritual of Rebirth is a slightly longer cast than most projectile nukes but heals at a huge level with low resource cost and in an aoe around you. Both of the restoring light ultimate morphs rock, but I and most give the edge to Remembrance as the flat 23% damage reduction for allies is worth losing two seconds on the healing, which is already the most Healing Per Second obtainable in the entire game for your group while also having a fairly low Ultimate cost at 117 after the 4%passive reduction Templars have.

I cringe every time I try see someone try to defend healing ritual. There are some other bad abilities, but healing ritual is my only pet peeve about Templar. Anyone defending that crap ability pretty much loses all credibility with me and becomes a blind Templar forum basher in my eyes. Any Templar that is trying to be an effective healer should not be running healing ritual in PVE and most certainly not in PvP.

Attorneyatlawl

eliisra wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Chances are if you do the right combo on the Templar most people will not be alive to get that immunity from jabs, the damage is incredibly high. As for no stagger I'd have no problem with that but it still doesn't change the fact stam Templar is second best stam toon right now. As for spears you can easily go for whoever you hit with it even if it's random, though frankly people will probably break it like they do fossilize. Dks pretty much have to rely on fossilize cause of wrecking blow right now.

Agreed, stam jab is crazy dps. If you open with another cc, you can sort of avoid the immunity from the puny knock back.

But the spear no. You clearly haven't played templar if you think you can use it 1v1 or even small scale freely. Like many other templar skills it has insane travelling time. Magicka templar slow projectiles is a problem.

Only reason DK's get speared is because they stand in one place and block, same with stacking spam raids.

You can not use Blazing Spear against moving targets period. By that I dont mean dodge, blink, sprint or with major expedition targets. I mean someone slowly walking, even back-peddling. You cannot hit them unless rooted or cc'ed, by a friendly. Have to drop the Spear where you "think" the target will be standing once the longer than life travelling animation is over. Which is totally rng and usually doesn't work.

It's the curse of templar, everything is slow, clunky, feels buggy, with animation delay or gcd. Could really use a class dev, to make the class feel more smooth and fun in combat. All classes could use that really.

You've got to be joking. Good Templars can, do, and will usually catch you with their first Luminous Shards unless you dodge roll it, because there's only so much space one can move when it has a large radius and a travel time of only around a second. This makes it a little harder to use at low skill levels, but stronger at highly skilled play as you can backload it with another faster travel time spell and then an instant travel immediately to string three hits inside of a second. Obviously, the full backboard is not always feasible but it usually is much like sorcerers do. Some Templar players I have fought are great with the spears and it shows in spades. It's a skill dependent and predictive skill to use but is very strong to balance it out.

Attorneyatlawl

timidobserver wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl
Wow, your ability to read skill descriptions is indeed good. Just because something is looks amazing on paper doesn't mean it actually is.

Versatile means nothing if everything is equally ***. The thing Templars are best at (according to you) is based around 1 single skill. Try healing endgame content with Ritual of Rebirth and Repentance... you will KILL your own team doing that.
Ritual of Rebirth takes a long time to cast, and unless you have a team who knows how to work with it you will certainly get killed. Repentance also works great during boss fights... i mean, after you get your team killed you can use their bodies once to heal yourself, as there are generally no dead bodies in boss fights.

Puncturing strikes gives away cc immunity, so using that already disables ALL your CC options (spear shards and eclipse, or anything else you (or your teammates) want to use).

Dark flare hits indeed pretty decent, but you won't ever be able to get a sneak attack with it because the flight time is so long that you are already out of stealth before it hits. It also has a long casting time to boot.

Have you ever noticed the common feature about all "successful" Templar builds...
They hardly possess any Templar skills. Having only 1 or 2 Templar skills doesn't make it a genuine Templar build, it makes it a build which every class can use, with the features pointed out to make it the most successful on a Templar.
The last decent "Templar" build i have seen (on this forum) only had 2 Templar skills, of which one was optional because the only advantages the Templar skill had was an extra stun. NEITHER OF THE TWO SKILLS HE USED TO HEAL HIMSELF WAS A TEMPLAR HEAL! NOT EVEN HIS "OH ***" HEAL!

Still credits to the guy, as it was a interesting build.

Inner Light and Structured Entropy is pretty standard for buffing spell damage. Biting Jabs (substitute dark flare), Radiant Oppression and Purifying light are also on my main bar ( thats 3/5 skills being templar skills)...wth are you talking about successful templars barely using templar skills? As for healing breath of life WAS, IS, and WILL BE king in vDSA...trials obviously need aoe heals thus resto staff, but for everything except for trials (who still runs those anyway? everyone got all that gear like last year) Breath of Life is the way to go. I can pull 12-13k in vDSA without trying hard and with focusing on rotation and changing some things around 18-20k is easily done....Can't speak for PvP (nor do I care, I don't play it), but in PvE Templar is amazing...

Try that set-up in PvP, it won't work.
Having a decent set-up in PvE isn't that hard. I have had 1001 ridiculous set-ups myself, which all functioned fantastic in PvE. The second however you step into PvP your builds are worthless, as nothing stand still for you to pull of your squishy high DPS rotation.

I don't have any problems with the skills you mentioned, as they are the bread and butter for my Templar as well (in PvE), but the guy i addressed was singing and praising about skills like Healing Ritual (which i doubt you, in your right mind, will ever use in something like vDSA) as well as combo-ing skills which can't be combo-ed as they all give the enemies CC immunity.

Half the people who talk here seem to only play a Templar in PvE, where as i already mentioned they are decent and without lots of problems. Especially if you choose to run something like a Stamina Build (refer to this topic).

The thing Templars are best at (healing), as @Attorneyatlawl and @timidobserver (and a few others) mentioned, got nerfed Quite exponentially in the past because the other classes found it unfair that a class with a pure healing tree out healed people with a Restoration staff. They still do (a bit, as other classes became more viable in healing also), but they stripped away all synergies the Restoration staff tree had with the Restoring Light tree, as well as greatly nerfed quite a lot of Restoring Light skills making them less viable compared to the Restoration staff (including the Ultimate).
In PvP a Templar is only viable as a healer, or you will end up with the builds i mentioned before (the ones without any Templar skills). That is not the way it should be.

Yeah, Mägicka builds don't get sneak attacks. That is kind of our thing not to, but instead we get high consistent damage nd don't share our resource pool with our defense. And you're tacitly incorrect on Templar class healing. Breath of Life outdoes everything in the game, including even a low health DK using dragon blood on themselves, while also being able to frit and doing half healing to two additional targets. Ritual of Rebirth is a slightly longer cast than most projectile nukes but heals at a huge level with low resource cost and in an aoe around you. Both of the restoring light ultimate morphs rock, but I and most give the edge to Remembrance as the flat 23% damage reduction for allies is worth losing two seconds on the healing, which is already the most Healing Per Second obtainable in the entire game for your group while also having a fairly low Ultimate cost at 117 after the 4%passive reduction Templars have.

I cringe every time I try see someone try to defend healing ritual. There are some other bad abilities, but healing ritual is my only pet peeve about Templar. Anyone defending that crap ability pretty much loses all credibility with me and becomes a blind Templar forum basher in my eyes. Any Templar that is trying to be an effective healer should not be running healing ritual in PVE and most certainly not in PvP.

Maybe you should actually try slotting it one of these days, then. I used it back in beta and I group regularly with people using it in PVP. It's arguably not useful in trials, but it can be good for some rounds of vDSA and any vet dungeon including vCOA on the PVE front. Knowing when you can cast a timed cast versus having to rely solely on instants is a basic skill in MMORPG play. And man, are the cast times and mechanics forgiving in this one... I shudder to think of many people talking about how a no interrupt system with only manually targeted ones like this game has, trying to kill a starter zone mob back in the days of EQ or DAOC. It's called positioning and timing. I get told in teamspeak that I give people too much credit for understanding or learning basics like these and that people do die to veteran zone mobs even now when I couldn't fathom it... don't prove them right .

timidobserver

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl
Wow, your ability to read skill descriptions is indeed good. Just because something is looks amazing on paper doesn't mean it actually is.

Versatile means nothing if everything is equally ***. The thing Templars are best at (according to you) is based around 1 single skill. Try healing endgame content with Ritual of Rebirth and Repentance... you will KILL your own team doing that.
Ritual of Rebirth takes a long time to cast, and unless you have a team who knows how to work with it you will certainly get killed. Repentance also works great during boss fights... i mean, after you get your team killed you can use their bodies once to heal yourself, as there are generally no dead bodies in boss fights.

Puncturing strikes gives away cc immunity, so using that already disables ALL your CC options (spear shards and eclipse, or anything else you (or your teammates) want to use).

Dark flare hits indeed pretty decent, but you won't ever be able to get a sneak attack with it because the flight time is so long that you are already out of stealth before it hits. It also has a long casting time to boot.

Have you ever noticed the common feature about all "successful" Templar builds...
They hardly possess any Templar skills. Having only 1 or 2 Templar skills doesn't make it a genuine Templar build, it makes it a build which every class can use, with the features pointed out to make it the most successful on a Templar.
The last decent "Templar" build i have seen (on this forum) only had 2 Templar skills, of which one was optional because the only advantages the Templar skill had was an extra stun. NEITHER OF THE TWO SKILLS HE USED TO HEAL HIMSELF WAS A TEMPLAR HEAL! NOT EVEN HIS "OH ***" HEAL!

Still credits to the guy, as it was a interesting build.

Inner Light and Structured Entropy is pretty standard for buffing spell damage. Biting Jabs (substitute dark flare), Radiant Oppression and Purifying light are also on my main bar ( thats 3/5 skills being templar skills)...wth are you talking about successful templars barely using templar skills? As for healing breath of life WAS, IS, and WILL BE king in vDSA...trials obviously need aoe heals thus resto staff, but for everything except for trials (who still runs those anyway? everyone got all that gear like last year) Breath of Life is the way to go. I can pull 12-13k in vDSA without trying hard and with focusing on rotation and changing some things around 18-20k is easily done....Can't speak for PvP (nor do I care, I don't play it), but in PvE Templar is amazing...

Try that set-up in PvP, it won't work.
Having a decent set-up in PvE isn't that hard. I have had 1001 ridiculous set-ups myself, which all functioned fantastic in PvE. The second however you step into PvP your builds are worthless, as nothing stand still for you to pull of your squishy high DPS rotation.

I don't have any problems with the skills you mentioned, as they are the bread and butter for my Templar as well (in PvE), but the guy i addressed was singing and praising about skills like Healing Ritual (which i doubt you, in your right mind, will ever use in something like vDSA) as well as combo-ing skills which can't be combo-ed as they all give the enemies CC immunity.

Half the people who talk here seem to only play a Templar in PvE, where as i already mentioned they are decent and without lots of problems. Especially if you choose to run something like a Stamina Build (refer to this topic).

The thing Templars are best at (healing), as @Attorneyatlawl and @timidobserver (and a few others) mentioned, got nerfed Quite exponentially in the past because the other classes found it unfair that a class with a pure healing tree out healed people with a Restoration staff. They still do (a bit, as other classes became more viable in healing also), but they stripped away all synergies the Restoration staff tree had with the Restoring Light tree, as well as greatly nerfed quite a lot of Restoring Light skills making them less viable compared to the Restoration staff (including the Ultimate).
In PvP a Templar is only viable as a healer, or you will end up with the builds i mentioned before (the ones without any Templar skills). That is not the way it should be.

Yeah, Mägicka builds don't get sneak attacks. That is kind of our thing not to, but instead we get high consistent damage nd don't share our resource pool with our defense. And you're tacitly incorrect on Templar class healing. Breath of Life outdoes everything in the game, including even a low health DK using dragon blood on themselves, while also being able to frit and doing half healing to two additional targets. Ritual of Rebirth is a slightly longer cast than most projectile nukes but heals at a huge level with low resource cost and in an aoe around you. Both of the restoring light ultimate morphs rock, but I and most give the edge to Remembrance as the flat 23% damage reduction for allies is worth losing two seconds on the healing, which is already the most Healing Per Second obtainable in the entire game for your group while also having a fairly low Ultimate cost at 117 after the 4%passive reduction Templars have.

I cringe every time I try see someone try to defend healing ritual. There are some other bad abilities, but healing ritual is my only pet peeve about Templar. Anyone defending that crap ability pretty much loses all credibility with me and becomes a blind Templar forum basher in my eyes. Any Templar that is trying to be an effective healer should not be running healing ritual in PVE and most certainly not in PvP.

Maybe you should actually try slotting it one of these days, then. I used it back in beta and I group regularly with people using it in PVP. It's arguably not useful in trials, but it can be good for some rounds of vDSA and any vet dungeon including vCOA on the PVE front. Knowing when you can cast a timed cast versus having to rely solely on instants is a basic skill in MMORPG play. And man, are the cast times and mechanics forgiving in this one... I shudder to think of many people talking about how a no interrupt system with only manually targeted ones like this game has, trying to kill a starter zone mob back in the days of EQ or DAOC. It's called positioning and timing.

Oh, I've tried it plenty enough to know that I should save my skill point. I agree entirely that Templar can be successful in 100% of ESO content. However, if you are really going to sit there and say that healing ritual is a good skill, it is clear that your MO in this thread is say that every Templar skill is good and nothing anyone says will change that. After that, I don't even have anything more to say to you in this thread lol. Anyone that thinks healing ritual is good cannot be reasoned with.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

You've got to be joking. Good Templars can, do, and will usually catch you with their first Luminous Shards unless you dodge roll it, because there's only so much space one can move when it has a large radius and a travel time of only around a second.

Thank god that no one dodge rolls in PvP anymore!

Sorry, but I tried to use it in PvP for a long time, and it is just too difficult-- especially in a 1v1 situation. Maybe I'm just a bad player, but I can hold my own in PvP and get more kills than deaths, and this one is just very hard to use. If your enemy is CCed you can try to land it-- just hope they don't get up quick and dodge roll or just move in a direction you hadn't anticipated. Have you tried to use it recently in PvP, where every NB is dodge rolling like William Shatner on crack? It is a very hard skill to use, and if anyone is able to hit an enemy in 1v1 more than 50% of the time, my hat would be off to them.

I really do think the main difference in comments here is between Templars that PvP and those that don't. In PvE, Templars seem to be doing fine. In PvP, those delays, Global Cool Downs, bugs, lack of escape, and lack of AoE CC are a death sentence.