Every MMO Has One, ESO has the Templar

tplink3r1

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Let me guess, you think the dragonknight's reflective scale is good, but think Total Dark (eclipse) sucks....? Despite having no projectile limit and a higher duration you can slap on multiple people instantly with no giant "Don't shoot me, I'm reflecting!" wings showing off like a jumbo tron sign, and Total Dark healing a good bit for you each time it reflects, and affecting them against all targets instead of just the caster? Oh and it acts as a nice resource denial to boot.

So many Templar mains complaining yet they don't even think Luminous Shards is targetable, despite how simple it is and well known that I know and I haven't mained a Templar even in beta, just played alongside a lot of good ones. That's pretty bad to be complaining and demanding major balance changes when you don't even know the basics of your own primarily played class!

Eclipse doesn't contribute anything for survival, people just break free out of it.
"Despite having no projectile limit" Why does it matter? I have never seen eclipse reflecting more than 2 projectiles(Light attack+spell).
And heres the big differences:
1.RS makes you TOTALLY immune to ranged attacks while it is up, eclipse is never up.
2.95% of all DKS use RS, 99% of all templars don't use eclipse, the 1% are just noobs trying new abilities.

Fizzlewizzle

@Attorneyatlawl , What class do you main?
All you wrote down so far is a list of skill descriptions, and claiming using certain skills and such because:

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

I haven't mained a Templar even in beta, just played alongside a lot of good ones.

You act like you know everything about a class you hardly play, and tell people who actually use said class 24/7 to shut up and LTP. Instead of Trolling and spreading false information, you should actually pick up a templar and experience it yourself.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

To the guy laughing about the huge ritual of rebirth heal for pvp and dark flare (a self empowering nuke that can be made to hit harder than crystal fragments, heal rebuffs everyone near and including the target, and more), it's little wonder you're complaining about Templar power levels if you don't even use those kinds of major skills.

I assume you mean me, but in any case tagging the person you are talking to might clear up any possible misunderstandings in the future, so i would like to clear up something.

I might be the person who knows best how this Ritual of Rebirth works from everyone contributing to this topic, as i have been using this heal for more than a year now, rather than Healing Springs (which everyone uses).
Both to heal in PvP, as well as heal Veteran Dungeon (Pledges) with it.

I write about it BECAUSE i know exactly how it works and what it is capable off, instead of only following a skill description and seeing some other people play with it. You might wonder why i use it, if i can't be positive about it?
I became a Templar to NOT having to use the Restoration Staff for staying alive. I did use a Restoration staff in the past, but after the nerf where they removed all Synergies between the Restoring Light tree and the Restoration staff, it didn't contribute anymore to the healing i did.

Because of how slow Healing Ritual is, and how open you are to any forms of damage or Stagger, i build my whole account around being able to survive most damage that gets thrown to me. Besides that i also found a way to regain enough Magicka to spam Healing Ritual even though i walk around in 7/7 heavy armor.

Argonian Templar:
- 7/7 heavy armor.
- SnB (2X)
- 2380 Magicka Recovery
- 15-22K Heals

i'm still trying to incorporate Dual wielding into my build, as it has a cheap movement speed buff, as well as extra Magic damage when wielding dual Swords, to boost my healing further.
-

Same goes for Dark Flare and the other skills i mentioned. I use them and i know how they work. Doesn't mean they are that great, but i know how i can make the most of them.

Thunder

Dredlord wrote: »

As with players Devs have their favourites. As I have moved from mmo to mmo over the years I have noticed I move from class type to class type as my favourite and sometimes have a distaste for what I played in the last one.

I can't imagine a Dev is any different and of course in every game you can see it, maybe not at first but soon it becomes obvious, there is one class that no one one the team gives a f*** about...

That's where your theory breaks down. A person does tend to prefer one class above the others, however, that general predilection is nullified with a group. Your proposition is like saying people will have a personal preference when it comes to Neapolitan ice cream. Though one might like all the flavors, they will tend to prefer one above the rest. Therefore the company that makes the ice cream must also prefer one flavor above the rest and subsequently focus the majority of their time and resources on that flavor.

It's a pretty silly notion when you think of it in proper context isn't it?

Dredlord

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Let me guess, you think the dragonknight's reflective scale is good, but think Total Dark (eclipse) sucks....? Despite having no projectile limit and a higher duration you can slap on multiple people instantly with no giant "Don't shoot me, I'm reflecting!" wings showing off like a jumbo tron sign, and Total Dark healing a good bit for you each time it reflects, and affecting them against all targets instead of just the caster? Oh and it acts as a nice resource denial to boot.

Let me guess, you have no idea how eclipse is actually functioning atm. Please people stop posting if you don't know anything past the tool tip.

Let compare the 2 skills as they function and not tooltip vs tooltip shall we?

Does scales work if your target is cc immune? yes of course...how bout eclipse? nope

Can I remove scales if I want to nuke down my target? nope...can my target remove eclipse if he wants to nuke me down? sure can and he gets 5 seconds of CC immunity as a bonus so now he has a free burst damage rotation on me.

If cast while a projectile is in the air will casting scales reflect it? yep (awesome fun counterplay right?) how bout casting eclipse while a projectile is in flight? nope sorry won't reflect.(awesome fun counte...err F..U zos really?)

How bout if we play ping pong. DK hits scales and temp slaps eclipse on him (lets say the DK is too stupid to break out remove eclipse and grab some free immunity) Temp expects the his uber powerful (lol) Darkflare to double reflect and then damage the DK as it would with 2 DK's using scales or even def posture. Sorry doesnt work that way for eclipse, the projectile seems to bounce back again but actually does no damage to the DK. possible bug? maybe...

Botton line is eclipse is vastly inferior to scales in practice. Lawl its starting to look like your just here to troll with all your misinformation.

Dredlord

Thunder wrote: »

Dredlord wrote: »

As with players Devs have their favourites. As I have moved from mmo to mmo over the years I have noticed I move from class type to class type as my favourite and sometimes have a distaste for what I played in the last one.

I can't imagine a Dev is any different and of course in every game you can see it, maybe not at first but soon it becomes obvious, there is one class that no one one the team gives a f*** about...

That's where your theory breaks down. A person does tend to prefer one class above the others, however, that general predilection is nullified with a group. Your proposition is like saying people will have a personal preference when it comes to Neapolitan ice cream. Though one might like all the flavors, they will tend to prefer one above the rest. Therefore the company that makes the ice cream must also prefer one flavor above the rest and subsequently focus the majority of their time and resources on that flavor.

It's a pretty silly notion when you think of it in proper context isn't it?

I'm sorry but your analogy is huge fail...ice cream? really? is chocolate pvping strawberry now? is strawberry whining chocolate has too many chocolate chips?

Let me inform about the group that nullified your ability to realize that group has a boss, a shotcaller, a lead designer even.

That lead designer has direction and vision for the game......and a bias (we all do). The point of the OP was, (and you missed it hard) when there is overwhelming evidence through player feedback, will he have the professionalism to re-evaluate his vision for the templar.

The templar skills/gameplay are slow and clunky, lack synergy and counterplay and are grossly outperformed by other class skills because of GCD's and slow animations.

danno8

Dredlord wrote: »

Botton line is eclipse is vastly inferior to scales in practice.

This exactly. And all of your points are spot on with my PvP Eclipse experience.

Sometimes a combination of Eclipse and Defensive Posture can screw with a Sorcerer for a time, but it's always a losing battle because it can be CC breaked so quickly.

edit: and just to add, WTF is up with the Eclipse ping pong anyway? I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing this bs...

Xsorus

Eclipse works on Melee Based Magic Damage attacks, like Lava Whip...so thats something at least.

Vahrokh

Earelith wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Every MMO has a class called Templar that they have no idea what to do with them. They sad thing is ive picked it on every game...

Uuum paladin in wow was an insane tank,healer and a deadly pvper dps.

In Vanilla it was just a healer..No other spec was valuable. Protection spec was good to go out and farm aoe mobs due to damage shield it had, but only on regular easy mobs.

in TBC it was the best aoe tank for boss adds (due to fast and insane aggro it could built) but it wasn't for boss tank, not even in dungeons. And in pvp there were half class specs better than him..I am an average player playing frost mage in TBC and paladins was one of the easiest kills in arena. Still, Paladin was just a healer as far as group content concerned except some very few occasions of aoe tank boss adds.

Early WotLK Retribution was FotM class facerolling everyone. Later on it got fixed (nerfed).

Then I stopped playing so I cant tell you what was his fate after wotlk

I was in a top 10 first world kill guild during both vanilla WoW and TBC. In TBC we had a warrior main tank, me as feral druid main tank and offtank and a paladin who could easily replace me except for few special gimnick bosses (like the one that required super insane health, where only I was guaranteed to survive).

Xsorus

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Don't open with jabs, basically open with piercing javelin

Javelin is notoriously unreliable in PvP. The CC will rarely be applied even to people not dodging and with no swirlies.

Last time I've been hit with it must have been sometime last year and that's usually a pretty good indication the skill is terrible.

Virtually every single Stamina Templar uses Javelin, Its not remotely unreliable...in fact it is pretty much the bread and butter attack/opener for them.

Thunder

Dredlord wrote: »

I'm sorry but your analogy is huge fail...ice cream? really? is chocolate pvping strawberry now? is strawberry whining chocolate has too many chocolate chips?

I'm sorry you don't understand how analogies work. Your original contention: people tend to have a preference, therefore the developers of ESO must also have a preference and are therefore unfairly biased toward a certain class. My analogy directly addresses that contention specifically. It has absolutely nothing to do with strawberry being envious of chocolate, they are just flavors. The point of the analogy is that the ice cream manufacturer doesn't have a bias toward any individual flavor, they just want to sell ice cream.

You seem to think the developers make game play decisions based on how it might affect their favorite class. To me, the idea is so absurd its ludicrous. The classes are nothing more than a product to the developers. They would no more show preferential treatment to one class over the others than a car manufacturer would show preferential treatment to one color car over the others . Your implication that the ESO developers are biased is no different than if I suspected Ford of saving the best bolts in the bucks for white Escorts while giving red Escorts all the crappy left over bolts.

You care way, WAY more than they do. At the end of the day, anyone who would have any control over which bolts go in which color Escort is not going to be driving home in an escort. If you are worried a developer might be juicing up one class over the others so that they will have an advantage when they play their favorite class, you should be more worried about that "NPC" bear in the woods. If I were a developer and I wanted an unfair advantage over players, I wouldn't give that advantage to any player that chooses my favorite class! I'd just hop in a bear and put him in god mode.

That's what you need to be worried about. Watch out for dem bears!

---

edit

---

OH! I misunderstood the OP. I thought he was saying Templar is the developers favorite class. Now I see he is saying Templar is their LEAST favorite class.

Doesn't really change anything though. Like with the ice cream analogy, rather than saying it would be absurd to think that because someone at the company might prefer strawberry the company would devote more time and resources to strawberry than vanilla and chocolate, instead I'd say it would be absurd to think that because someone at a company might dislike chocolate the company would devote less time and money to it.

What confused me was the OP said something along the lines of every MMO has one.... WoW had the druid... which I took to mean a favorite class the developers made OP because druids farted more DPS than any 2 other classes put together back when I played.

However, had I not misunderstood the OP, I would have mentioned that templar is not the red headed step child of ESO. Templars can do something no other class can do, which is really true of all the classes. Every class can do things no other class can do. That's pretty much the point. So OP's position makes even less sense. If you see some other class doing something you want to do better than Templar can do it, go play that class! The classes aren 't, can't, and shouldn't be balanced around identical DPS. There so much more to a class than DPS. The more you try to make everything equal, the less individual classes even exist.

Xevothian

Well first of all, saying no one gives a F*** about Templars is just a lie. I am in Saiyans, a PvP guild owned by @Blabafat and I completely care about him within the group and he is a Templar. He is not only extremely good at playing the class, but is a great healer. And above all of that, he can pull of great dps. I'm not saying this is a L2P problem, i'm just saying that maybe, as a you are a Templar or have one i'm assuming, you need to change your playing style on the class to become a better all around player. There is always some superior playing style on classes. Some are unique and some are mainstream. The class, i will say, doesn't have the best dps, but you can get it that way. Have you really tried everything you can to make this class pull out its big guns?

Valymer

With my stamina templar, I only PvP. And trust me that spear is not nearly as good as a CC as Fear, Streak, or Fossilize.

In fact that is really the thing that holds templars back in PvP, imo...they need a good aoe CC.

The only templar skill that I even use in Cyrodiil at the moment is Biting Jabs, and that's mostly only for all these vampires that like to spam mist form over and over while they build ultimate.

Stamina templars might be great in PvE, but they are not so strong in PvP at the moment. Or should I say: if they are strong, it is not because of their class skills.

Dredlord

Thunder wrote: »

Dredlord wrote: »

I'm sorry but your analogy is huge fail...ice cream? really? is chocolate pvping strawberry now? is strawberry whining chocolate has too many chocolate chips?

I'm sorry you don't understand how analogies work. Your original contention: people tend to have a preference, therefore the developers of ESO must also have a preference and are therefore unfairly biased toward a certain class. My analogy directly addresses that contention specifically. It has absolutely nothing to do with strawberry being envious of chocolate, they are just flavors. The point of the analogy is that the ice cream manufacturer doesn't have a bias toward any individual flavor, they just want to sell ice cream.

You seem to think the developers make game play decisions based on how it might affect their favorite class. To me, the idea is so absurd its ludicrous. The classes are nothing more than a product to the developers. They would no more show preferential treatment to one class over the others than a car manufacturer would show preferential treatment to one color car over the others . Your implication that the ESO developers are biased is no different than if I suspected Ford of saving the best bolts in the bucks for white Escorts while giving red Escorts all the crappy left over bolts.

You care way, WAY more than they do. At the end of the day, anyone who would have any control over which bolts go in which color Escort is not going to be driving home in an escort. If you are worried a developer might be juicing up one class over the others so that they will have an advantage when they play their favorite class, you should be more worried about that "NPC" bear in the woods. If I were a developer and I wanted an unfair advantage over players, I wouldn't give that advantage to any player that chooses my favorite class! I'd just hop in a bear and put him in god mode.

That's what you need to be worried about. Watch out for dem bears!

You missed the point again fella, I think this time you were too busy defending your analogy. btw there are no crappy bolts, the bolts are put in by machines, machines have no bias.

ok ok your analogy was pure awesome...now get over it.

You are right most players probably do care way more than the developers, which is why they should take notice of all the feedback and suggestions for this class rather than feeding us BS like "working as intended" for obviously bugged skills. Skills previously confirmed as "bugged and we are looking into it" by devs.

Dredlord

Xevothian wrote: »

Well first of all, saying no one gives a F*** about Templars is just a lie. I am in Saiyans, a PvP guild owned by @Blabafat and I completely care about him within the group and he is a Templar. He is not only extremely good at playing the class, but is a great healer. And above all of that, he can pull of great dps. I'm not saying this is a L2P problem, i'm just saying that maybe, as a you are a Templar or have one i'm assuming, you need to change your playing style on the class to become a better all around player. There is always some superior playing style on classes. Some are unique and some are mainstream. The class, i will say, doesn't have the best dps, but you can get it that way. Have you really tried everything you can to make this class pull out its big guns?

Congratulations, I am happy you care about your guild leader who is a templar. I certainly don't play my templar perfectly and have room for improvement.

Thank you for your learn to play comment. I get better every day.

Animal_Mother

timidobserver wrote: »

I cringe every time I try see someone try to defend healing ritual. There are some other bad abilities, but healing ritual is my only pet peeve about Templar. Anyone defending that crap ability pretty much loses all credibility with me and becomes a blind Templar forum basher in my eyes. Any Templar that is trying to be an effective healer should not be running healing ritual in PVE and most certainly not in PvP.

Lately, I've been using Lingering when I'm in Cyrodiil. Being Stam-based I need my heals to count (for me BoL heals for 5300/2500); so casting Purifying Ritual followed by Lingering Ritual has been my method of protecting siege operators for the past month. I can nearly heal for 8K (+PR hot) to each target with the combination and it costs me less magicka than two BoLs.

It's not for fluid actions, but for use in fixed locations - defense and storming breaches, I'm starting to find it useful. I don't have Vigor, yet so I have to use this combo.

Mettaricana

PKMN12 wrote: »

fun fact: this class inbalance is STILL not as bad as it was during P2P, where it was Fire-DK-mage or bust

sad part was i went fire DK mage just so i could stop falling behind with everything else then i made a sorc loved it... then they nerfed it sorta loved it then they tweaked surge and made gear typing so important now i can't stand to look at sorc because she either hits like a truck and dies like a feather drifting into a volcano. or she can be armored enough to take a hit and deal damage like feather having a tantrum against a truck.