Why is Nirnhoned Still Not Fixed?

Xsorus · June 2015

Domander wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Playing a Magicka and Stamina User this patch...if you don't know why Nirnhoned hasn't been changed yet you clearly haven't pvped this patch.

Pvp is kinda ruined for anyone magicka based, at least vs those exploiting it.

If you don't think so, give me 40 or 50k armor.

Really? Because i see countless Magicka Sorcs/DKs/Templars out there

In fact my Magicka Dk is better then my Stamina DK.

As for you wanting 40 to 50k armor..You going to give everyone 20k+ Armor Pen like ya have Spell Pen? No?

You are definitely traumatized by some bad experience you had with a sorc...probably with their broken nirn staff and broken crystal frags proc.

Or i've actually pvped since 1.6....as both a Stamina User and a Magicka User and understand why they're aren't throwing in a fix for nirnhoned before they do a rebalance.

You realize how screwed a lot of Stamina Users would be without Nirnhoned right now would be against something like a Magicka DK for example who can flame lash even the high resist people for 4 or 5k a pop? The ones without Nirnhoned I bloody crit for close to 9k....This is when they have 18k-20k Health...They can't dodge it either...

Or God...Prox Detonation... without Nirnhoned working the way it does right now.

Though I find it funny you went right to thinking I was just talking about sorcs...When in reality if Nirnhoned didn't exist all Magicka Users would be way over the top right now.

Sorcs would just be the ones most on the top.

Magicka doesn't do more damage than stamina... in fact it's the other way around.

Magicka right now is only balanced based on the fact Nirnhoned exists..Like I said..without nirnhoned people would be eating 8k+ whips from me left and right....Which are far easier to land then Wrecking Blow...in fact is Nirnhoned didn't exist the only Stamina user you would probably see is a Nightblade.

Xsorus · June 2015

Domander wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Playing a Magicka and Stamina User this patch...if you don't know why Nirnhoned hasn't been changed yet you clearly haven't pvped this patch.

Pvp is kinda ruined for anyone magicka based, at least vs those exploiting it.

If you don't think so, give me 40 or 50k armor.

Really? Because i see countless Magicka Sorcs/DKs/Templars out there

In fact my Magicka Dk is better then my Stamina DK.

As for you wanting 40 to 50k armor..You going to give everyone 20k+ Armor Pen like ya have Spell Pen? No?

Magicka works as well as stamina against anyone that's not spell resist capped, otherwise you're doing half damage. Have you been up against it? your attacks will literally do half damage. You going to kill someone with 2.5k lashes? I mean unless they have 0 healiing. (oh and that's if they are NOT blocking) If I could get 50k armor... who cares if the enemy has 20k penetration? LOL

maybe not everyone wants to be stamina? that's why you see a lot? On my DK, I did not like the stamina playstyle, I love magicka, I used to switch between them before 1.6 for my bow build when I needed the range. I can't really do that anymore.

On my sorc, I'm going stam

You realize very few people are actually Spell resist capped right? It requires 5+ Nirnhoned to do it...Most are wearing Monster Helms, that's 2 pieces that doesn't get it...That leaves 5 Pieces of gear left..Most stamina users are either going to run something like Skirmisher/Ravager/Dreugher which eats up another 2 to 5 Slots...

The people you're going to run into with Cap Resist most of the time aren't stamina users, They're other Magicka Users....Esp the Dual Wielding (Nirnhoned weapons) or 1hd/shield users.

Xsorus · June 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

On one of the ESO lives Jessica, if I remember correctly, said that the next major update will be like a week after console

@whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO or anyone else can confirm this information? I did not see anywhere that ZOS gave a time frame for when the 'next major update' would be hitting PC after console release.

I remember them saying that too, Next major updated which will be 2-3Months after console release

Yup, the Nirnhoned trait will be adjusted to be more in line with the other traits in the next major content update.

If they dail down the values on nirn items it should be fine, spell resist of 30k might seem like a lot but basic spell penetration is something around 12-13k so almost half is easily ignored.

The main issue is the lack of physical resistance from the Reinforced trait, if they buff Reinforced the TTK in pvp will become longer which will prevent people from getting one-shot by gankers etc.

They won't buff Reinforced trait to match Nirnhoned if they're smart

Pretty much every Magicka User would Cap Physical Resist, and then use Dampen Magicka or harness Magicka to combat Magicka Damage....It'll basically make Magicka Users over the top defense wise.

They need to Raise HP up, reduce some damage on certain classes, and then nerf nirnhoned.

Domander · June 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Playing a Magicka and Stamina User this patch...if you don't know why Nirnhoned hasn't been changed yet you clearly haven't pvped this patch.

Pvp is kinda ruined for anyone magicka based, at least vs those exploiting it.

If you don't think so, give me 40 or 50k armor.

Really? Because i see countless Magicka Sorcs/DKs/Templars out there

In fact my Magicka Dk is better then my Stamina DK.

As for you wanting 40 to 50k armor..You going to give everyone 20k+ Armor Pen like ya have Spell Pen? No?

You are definitely traumatized by some bad experience you had with a sorc...probably with their broken nirn staff and broken crystal frags proc.

Or i've actually pvped since 1.6....as both a Stamina User and a Magicka User and understand why they're aren't throwing in a fix for nirnhoned before they do a rebalance.

You realize how screwed a lot of Stamina Users would be without Nirnhoned right now would be against something like a Magicka DK for example who can flame lash even the high resist people for 4 or 5k a pop? The ones without Nirnhoned I bloody crit for close to 9k....This is when they have 18k-20k Health...They can't dodge it either...

Or God...Prox Detonation... without Nirnhoned working the way it does right now.

Though I find it funny you went right to thinking I was just talking about sorcs...When in reality if Nirnhoned didn't exist all Magicka Users would be way over the top right now.

Sorcs would just be the ones most on the top.

Magicka doesn't do more damage than stamina... in fact it's the other way around.

Magicka right now is only balanced based on the fact Nirnhoned exists..Like I said..without nirnhoned people would be eating 8k+ whips from me left and right....Which are far easier to land then Wrecking Blow...in fact is Nirnhoned didn't exist the only Stamina user you would probably see is a Nightblade.

First I will say, maybe if vampire, second, surprise attack.

also when my DK was playing with stamina I was able to get 5k DOT TICKS from unstable flame.

Tankqull · June 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

On one of the ESO lives Jessica, if I remember correctly, said that the next major update will be like a week after console

@whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO or anyone else can confirm this information? I did not see anywhere that ZOS gave a time frame for when the 'next major update' would be hitting PC after console release.

I remember them saying that too, Next major updated which will be 2-3Months after console release

Yup, the Nirnhoned trait will be adjusted to be more in line with the other traits in the next major content update.

If they dail down the values on nirn items it should be fine, spell resist of 30k might seem like a lot but basic spell penetration is something around 12-13k so almost half is easily ignored.

The main issue is the lack of physical resistance from the Reinforced trait, if they buff Reinforced the TTK in pvp will become longer which will prevent people from getting one-shot by gankers etc.

They won't buff Reinforced trait to match Nirnhoned if they're smart

Pretty much every Magicka User would Cap Physical Resist, and then use Dampen Magicka or harness Magicka to combat Magicka Damage....It'll basically make Magicka Users over the top defense wise.

They need to Raise HP up, reduce some damage on certain classes, and then nerf nirnhoned.

this are the only true words from you for a long time

everything else in this thread is complete garbage

Mauz · June 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

Because you can't nerf nirn alone. You have to do some balancing at the same time, otherwise every magika build will become a oneshot build

Exactly this

Rook_Master · June 2015

Cinbri wrote: »

While i agree that nirnohoned need fix coz it is imbalance, i also afraid what will happen after it will be fixed coz with my current 52k spellresist and stacked Hardy CP crystal fragments still crits me for 14-16k damage even after stuck empower fix(was it even fixed?); this means if i don't have defensive stance or Eclipse i will be dead for 100% after blocking will drain all my stamina; and - no, i not talking about emperor sorc. (So fixing nirn without fixing balance would be devastating and only bring back Era of Sorcs Online)

So because CF is powerful we need to completely break spell resistance?

It's disconcerting that there are others who share your opinion here. Do you really think 52k spell resistance is ok? That means you are at 50% mitigation constantly, just because you slapped on a few traits.

On a side note, there is no way you got hit with a 16k frag with 52k spell resistance. Most likely it clipped past your shield and hit you unmitigated for the rest of the damage.

eliisra · June 2015

Rook_Master wrote: »

On a side note, there is no way you got hit with a 16k frag with 52k spell resistance. Most likely it clipped past your shield and hit you unmitigated for the rest of the damage.

Yeah, that's noway, unless 100% elemental and armor debuffed. Or it's the shield bug, which I'm not even sure exist? When I use my 50% spell res build, your average CF hits me 4-7k, depending on the sorcerer.

Than there's hard hitters like 2k Concealed Weapon and Whip. Think my mediocre health recovery alone will out heal that. Compared to 10-15k Surprise attacks, Wrecking Blows, Snipes and Steel Tornado, while I'm using both Resolve + full set of heavy armor. Totally balanced game.

Joy_Division · June 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Playing a Magicka and Stamina User this patch...if you don't know why Nirnhoned hasn't been changed yet you clearly haven't pvped this patch.

Pvp is kinda ruined for anyone magicka based, at least vs those exploiting it.

If you don't think so, give me 40 or 50k armor.

Really? Because i see countless Magicka Sorcs/DKs/Templars out there

In fact my Magicka Dk is better then my Stamina DK.

As for you wanting 40 to 50k armor..You going to give everyone 20k+ Armor Pen like ya have Spell Pen? No?

You are definitely traumatized by some bad experience you had with a sorc...probably with their broken nirn staff and broken crystal frags proc.

Or i've actually pvped since 1.6....as both a Stamina User and a Magicka User and understand why they're aren't throwing in a fix for nirnhoned before they do a rebalance.

You realize how screwed a lot of Stamina Users would be without Nirnhoned right now would be against something like a Magicka DK for example who can flame lash even the high resist people for 4 or 5k a pop? The ones without Nirnhoned I bloody crit for close to 9k....This is when they have 18k-20k Health...They can't dodge it either...

Or God...Prox Detonation... without Nirnhoned working the way it does right now.

Though I find it funny you went right to thinking I was just talking about sorcs...When in reality if Nirnhoned didn't exist all Magicka Users would be way over the top right now.

Sorcs would just be the ones most on the top.

Yeah, I'm sure the unblockable 4000 weapon damage wrecking blow and 11 meter radius steel tornado spammers would be totally screwed without nirnhoned. When I can slap on an armor trait and reduce their damage in half, then I will feel sorry for them.

And the reason you see so many magicka Temps and DKs is because we are expected to do things in PvE...like heal these Steel tornado spammers who are so used to wading into enemy firing and not take any damage, not because magicka is better than stamina.

Oughash · June 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

They won't buff Reinforced trait to match Nirnhoned if they're smart

Pretty much every Magicka User would Cap Physical Resist, and then use Dampen Magicka or harness Magicka to combat Magicka Damage....It'll basically make Magicka Users over the top defense wise.

They need to Raise HP up, reduce some damage on certain classes, and then nerf nirnhoned.

I.... actually agree with Xsorus here. Nirn hasn't been fixed (and yes, its way out of balance) b/c so much other stuff needs to be fixed with it.

A few things:
1. Raise HP
2. Reduce damage on some magicka skills
3. Nerf nirnhoned
4. balance wpn/spl dmg itemization (reduce damge set bonuses? or add softcaps)
5. fix regen stacking (softcaps or lower set bonuses)

Basically, a player needs to be forced to choose between sustain, damage, and toughness.

Cinbri · June 2015

Rook_Master wrote: »

So because CF is powerful we need to completely break spell resistance?

No, i said that change something that will make only one class strongest again, won't help at all

Rook_Master wrote: »

On a side note, there is no way you got hit with a 16k frag with 52k spell resistance. Most likely it clipped past your shield and hit you unmitigated for the rest of the damage.

Sadly, i got this and was very sad that even nirn and full heavy armor for some reason are not helping mitigate strongest magic ability and i have no idea why. I think it some issues with spell penetration.
Anyway i voting for nirn fix and spellpenetration as wearing light nirn armor giving you, just like in 1.5, biggest profit.
But somewhy i don't believe in miracle.

psufan5 · June 2015

I have 4 pieces of leather with it on, and I still get hit very hard by spells. There are ways to reduce its effectiveness considerably. Zenimax just needs to make it so you cannot go over the softcap on anything. Therefore, debuffs will actually work and not simply bring people down to the cap. Make it so no one can go over 32k resist regardless of what you have on. Given that you can reduce resists in so many ways, it should be pretty easy to crush people.

ToRelax · June 2015

Rook_Master wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

While i agree that nirnohoned need fix coz it is imbalance, i also afraid what will happen after it will be fixed coz with my current 52k spellresist and stacked Hardy CP crystal fragments still crits me for 14-16k damage even after stuck empower fix(was it even fixed?); this means if i don't have defensive stance or Eclipse i will be dead for 100% after blocking will drain all my stamina; and - no, i not talking about emperor sorc. (So fixing nirn without fixing balance would be devastating and only bring back Era of Sorcs Online)

[...]

On a side note, there is no way you got hit with a 16k frag with 52k spell resistance. Most likely it clipped past your shield and hit you unmitigated for the rest of the damage.

That is possible, just need a glass cannon build...

Demp everything into spell damage > max magicka, get every bit of possible spell penetration. Then you would penetrate a bit of the resistance already (7k or so, if you want to trust thoe numbers...) and you can have 14k + fragments tooltip (fully buffed), depending on cp.

Elemental Drain and destro passives make it easier ofc as was mentioned, but obviously not for fragments.

End of the day I have no idea what some people's problem is - nirn is so blatantly overpowered it's not funny anymore, and I can honestly do just fine with either magicka or stamina builds without using a single piece of nirnhoned.
Something like a magicka burst NB with Prox Detonation can kill me very easily if I am not extra careful, but that is a glass cannon setup as well, if I catch them 1v1 and use a detect potion they can't do much against me.

Tankqull · June 2015

Cinbri wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

So because CF is powerful we need to completely break spell resistance?

No, i said that change something that will make only one class strongest again, won't help at all

Rook_Master wrote: »

On a side note, there is no way you got hit with a 16k frag with 52k spell resistance. Most likely it clipped past your shield and hit you unmitigated for the rest of the damage.

Sadly, i got this and was very sad that even nirn and full heavy armor for some reason are not helping mitigate strongest magic ability and i have no idea why. I think it some issues with spell penetration.
Anyway i voting for nirn fix and spellpenetration as wearing light nirn armor giving you, just like in 1.5, biggest profit.
But somewhy i don't believe in miracle.

say hello to the dmgshield overflow bug.

Cinbri · June 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

So because CF is powerful we need to completely break spell resistance?

No, i said that change something that will make only one class strongest again, won't help at all

Rook_Master wrote: »

On a side note, there is no way you got hit with a 16k frag with 52k spell resistance. Most likely it clipped past your shield and hit you unmitigated for the rest of the damage.

Sadly, i got this and was very sad that even nirn and full heavy armor for some reason are not helping mitigate strongest magic ability and i have no idea why. I think it some issues with spell penetration.
Anyway i voting for nirn fix and spellpenetration as wearing light nirn armor giving you, just like in 1.5, biggest profit.
But somewhy i don't believe in miracle.

say hello to the dmgshield overflow bug.

Snowballer23 · June 2015

Yesterday I met a NB with nirno, i am a magicka DK and with light attack I did more damage than with whip LOL not counting the perma rolldodge

Tankqull · June 2015

Cinbri wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

So because CF is powerful we need to completely break spell resistance?

No, i said that change something that will make only one class strongest again, won't help at all

Rook_Master wrote: »

On a side note, there is no way you got hit with a 16k frag with 52k spell resistance. Most likely it clipped past your shield and hit you unmitigated for the rest of the damage.

Sadly, i got this and was very sad that even nirn and full heavy armor for some reason are not helping mitigate strongest magic ability and i have no idea why. I think it some issues with spell penetration.
Anyway i voting for nirn fix and spellpenetration as wearing light nirn armor giving you, just like in 1.5, biggest profit.
But somewhy i don't believe in miracle.

say hello to the dmgshield overflow bug.

awesome

cschwingeb14_ESO · June 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

While i agree that nirnohoned need fix coz it is imbalance, i also afraid what will happen after it will be fixed coz with my current 52k spellresist and stacked Hardy CP crystal fragments still crits me for 14-16k damage even after stuck empower fix(was it even fixed?); this means if i don't have defensive stance or Eclipse i will be dead for 100% after blocking will drain all my stamina; and - no, i not talking about emperor sorc. (So fixing nirn without fixing balance would be devastating and only bring back Era of Sorcs Online)

[...]

On a side note, there is no way you got hit with a 16k frag with 52k spell resistance. Most likely it clipped past your shield and hit you unmitigated for the rest of the damage.

That is possible, just need a glass cannon build...

Demp everything into spell damage > max magicka, get every bit of possible spell penetration. Then you would penetrate a bit of the resistance already (7k or so, if you want to trust thoe numbers...) and you can have 14k + fragments tooltip (fully buffed), depending on cp.

No, it is not possible without the shield bug. To hit someone with 52k resistance for 16k, you would have to be able to hit a critter for 32k with frags. That is just not possible since they fixed the +20% bug.

Also, the target would have to have no champ points in the reduced magic damage taken passive. Also, that 14k tooltip already includes the+20% procs damage bonus... And if you're getting numbers that high, then you're using DW and don't get any destro passives

The hyperbole about fragments is getting ridiculous

Oh yeah... Back on track: Nerf nirn armor so that it is back in line with other traits

ToRelax · June 2015

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

While i agree that nirnohoned need fix coz it is imbalance, i also afraid what will happen after it will be fixed coz with my current 52k spellresist and stacked Hardy CP crystal fragments still crits me for 14-16k damage even after stuck empower fix(was it even fixed?); this means if i don't have defensive stance or Eclipse i will be dead for 100% after blocking will drain all my stamina; and - no, i not talking about emperor sorc. (So fixing nirn without fixing balance would be devastating and only bring back Era of Sorcs Online)

[...]

On a side note, there is no way you got hit with a 16k frag with 52k spell resistance. Most likely it clipped past your shield and hit you unmitigated for the rest of the damage.

That is possible, just need a glass cannon build...

Demp everything into spell damage > max magicka, get every bit of possible spell penetration. Then you would penetrate a bit of the resistance already (7k or so, if you want to trust thoe numbers...) and you can have 14k + fragments tooltip (fully buffed), depending on cp.

No, it is not possible without the shield bug. To hit someone with 52k resistance for 16k, you would have to be able to hit a critter for 32k with frags. That is just not possible since they fixed the +20% bug.

That maths, rofl.

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Also, the target would have to have no champ points in the reduced magic damage taken passive. Also, that 14k tooltip already includes the+20% procs damage bonus... And if you're getting numbers that high, then you're using DW and don't get any destro passives

I know that the tooltip incluedes the bonus damage tyvm.
And since it's about what is possible, we can indeed assume the target has no CP in the reduced magic damage passive.
Yes, we're using dualwield, very clever.

Attorneyatlawl · June 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

On one of the ESO lives Jessica, if I remember correctly, said that the next major update will be like a week after console

@whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO or anyone else can confirm this information? I did not see anywhere that ZOS gave a time frame for when the 'next major update' would be hitting PC after console release.

I remember them saying that too, Next major updated which will be 2-3Months after console release

Yup, the Nirnhoned trait will be adjusted to be more in line with the other traits in the next major content update.

If they dail down the values on nirn items it should be fine, spell resist of 30k might seem like a lot but basic spell penetration is something around 12-13k so almost half is easily ignored.

The main issue is the lack of physical resistance from the Reinforced trait, if they buff Reinforced the TTK in pvp will become longer which will prevent people from getting one-shot by gankers etc.

This, been saying it for months and months

. Nirnhoned isn't the issue, Reinforced not working the same way is

.

Xsorus wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

On one of the ESO lives Jessica, if I remember correctly, said that the next major update will be like a week after console

@whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO or anyone else can confirm this information? I did not see anywhere that ZOS gave a time frame for when the 'next major update' would be hitting PC after console release.

I remember them saying that too, Next major updated which will be 2-3Months after console release

Yup, the Nirnhoned trait will be adjusted to be more in line with the other traits in the next major content update.

If they dail down the values on nirn items it should be fine, spell resist of 30k might seem like a lot but basic spell penetration is something around 12-13k so almost half is easily ignored.

The main issue is the lack of physical resistance from the Reinforced trait, if they buff Reinforced the TTK in pvp will become longer which will prevent people from getting one-shot by gankers etc.

They won't buff Reinforced trait to match Nirnhoned if they're smart

Pretty much every Magicka User would Cap Physical Resist, and then use Dampen Magicka or harness Magicka to combat Magicka Damage....It'll basically make Magicka Users over the top defense wise.

They need to Raise HP up, reduce some damage on certain classes, and then nerf nirnhoned.

There are bubbles that absorb physical, magical, or both. That's not really a difference between the two as far as that goes. The reason reinforced needs to be upped to match nirnhoned (perhaps with a slight reduction on nirnhoned's percentage at the same time) is due to itemization and passives. Rather than re-write the same post, I'm going to just quote myself from the other major nirnhoned thread where I reiterated my thoughts from a few months ago:

Attorneyatlawl wrote:

Like I've said before in other threads, we need to slow down time to kill, not speed it up by nerfing nirnhoned in a vacuum. Frankly, it's one of the things in this game that is close to perfect on balance, and could possibly stand a reduction of its percentage by a small amount (18 to 20% at legendary instead of 24% on an armor item as it is now). In tandem with that, as I've said many times over the past few months, balancing out nirnhoned with an equivalent physical resistance trait available such as retuning Reinforced to work in the same way and percentages, would go a long way towards fixing the incredibly bursty gameplay that has come to become a large amount of the encounters you fight in now in Cyrodiil. Some people are saying that the TTK is too slow, but I'd actually posit that for magicka users, it's just right.

Now we need to balance it for physical builds to match, along with (also mentioned many times before) bringing more parity to the amounts of weapon damage you can stack in feasible/good gear combinations versus how much you can stack spell damage in a similar fashion. The best usable builds in PVE and PVP for spell damage, excluding using dual wield weapons which sacrifices your magicka-based medium-weave attack and is normally a substantial part of your damage (it accounts for around 15-20% of my damage output for example on my Dragon Knight) while cutting yourself off from weapon-based magicka skills, is around the 2900-3100 range. In a good physical-based build, it is very practical to carry around 3500+ weapon damage and in high-damage builds along the lines of the magicka comparison, over 4,100-4,300. You can also opt to drop a few hundred or so of that weapon damage and slot in sets like Hawk Eye or Morag Tong which fit well in a variety of builds, for 5% reduced bow skill cost and increased damage, or 15% extra (bow skill essentially) damage with poisons (which the bow skills morph into). The only comparable item set for magicka builds is the Sun set, which is a 5% bonus to fire damage, and there is no comparable set like Ravaging for physical builds. This is by and large more of the same that I've already posted, but I've noticed a handful of others are beginning to comment along the same lines such as Xsorus more recently.

And in response to someone (incorrectly) claiming that it is easy to get higher spell pen than you can get for armor pen...

Attorneyatlawl wrote:

]Maces in dual wield provide 10% penetration each, or a two-handed mace provides 20% penetration. Sharpened tops at 14% penetration whereas Nirnhoned tops at 18%. From weapons alone with sharpened maces, you'll get 34% armor penetration whereas a magicka build will get 18%, while light armor provides a ~4800 spell resistance penetration (~10-14% against many enemies) but medium armor additionally gets 12% weapon damage rating. So generally, you'll land at around 34% armor penetration factoring in just the armor passives and weapon passives/traits, versus around 30% spell penetration, while the physical builds will also gain 12% weapon damage rating. Destruction staff users gain an extra 10% ignore but it's only for destruction skills, whereas the mace passives apply to everything including class skills, etc.

Spell resistance is also easier by far to get to the 35,000-40,000+ range with little sacrifice made in medium/heavy armor builds (and around 25,000 in magicka builds based on light armor 5/1/1 light/medium/heavy armor combinations), while for physical resistance it is extremely difficult to get that above 25,000-27,000 in builds fully decked out for it in heavy armor (impractical for a magicka build). Major Armor debuffs are on a variety of skills commonly used by physical builds, while the only magicka ability that does a major Spell Resistance debuff other than the nightblade's reaper's mark (which actually does armor, too) class skill, is the Destruction Staff's "Elemental Drain". Otherwise, you're out of luck. Meanwhile a variety of class and weapon skills apply major armor debuffs while dealing large amounts of damage.

Add in the huge disparity in practically reachable weapon damage and spell damage amounts, and that they scale very similarly on a like-ability to like-ability basis for your skills, and physical is far ahead at this point in time. That is why you see the majority of players running around with physical builds at this point in time

'Nuff said

.

Bouvin · June 2015

Nirnhood?

Jaxsun · June 2015

Rook_Master wrote: »

Lorkhan wrote: »

zenimax answer to your question:
because consoles

Funny how console didn't stop them from nerfing crab grind.

Yep, they've put all their eggs into the console basket. And when they have the same aloof, non-committal incompetence to the consoles as they do the PC they'll shutdown. But before they do, they'll censor, i mean, remove posts that aren't "constructive"...

RinaldoGandolphi · June 2015

The fact that Nirnhoned is even in this game in its current state is nonsense.

RinaldoGandolphi · June 2015

No worries, next week Nirnhoned should be nerfed as the console day patch should be the one that does it.

ZOS has too much riding on console,. no way they allow it to go that long...they have too mnay folks copying accounts from PC, they would literally be unkillable and ruin their sales on console.

I will honestly be shocked if its not patched on the same day console hits as they have a patched slated to go out that day which is June 9th next week.

Cinbri · June 2015

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

No worries, next week Nirnhoned should be nerfed as the console day patch should be the one that does it.

ZOS has too much riding on console,. no way they allow it to go that long...they have too mnay folks copying accounts from PC, they would literally be unkillable and ruin their sales on console.

I will honestly be shocked if its not patched on the same day console hits as they have a patched slated to go out that day which is June 9th next week.

Cinbri · June 2015

Small update: seems 16k frags damage is shield bug indeed. Got hitted by frags for 2k then after BS expire got critted by same person for 13k.

Attorneyatlawl · June 2015

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The fact that Nirnhoned is even in this game in its current state is nonsense.

Care to explain your views with supporting math?

The facts just don't support that.

RinaldoGandolphi · June 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The fact that Nirnhoned is even in this game in its current state is nonsense.

Care to explain your views with supporting math? The facts just don't support that.

Its not about math, its about opportunity costs....a person gives up "very little" to stack Nirn....the difference between infused and nirn on large pieces is inconsequential..lets see here... a small increase to magic, stamina, or health, or a huge increase to spell resist....you present those numbers to anyone and they will pick nirn everytime, from a cost perspective it makes sense.

Nirn is too good right now, yes there are ways to counter it, with spell pen, destro staff, weakness to elements, spell erosion, etc...but look at how much you have to do just to counter a single armor trait...its just a bit much...im not saying nerf nirn to useless, but it needs toned down some...say about 3% better then Reinforced "per piece" not increasing your base spell resist by a %

Opportunity cost...what you have to give up in order to use nirn is unbalanced, right now if everyone had access to nirn, which in a few weeks, they will, no one will use any other trait in pvp as it makes no sense to(Just like impentrable was so good in 1.5)...even Divines pales in comparison to what you get with nirn.

I just hope when they adjust it they don't go overboard and render it useless.

k2blader · June 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

That is possible, just need a glass cannon build...

Demp everything into spell damage > max magicka, get every bit of possible spell penetration. Then you would penetrate a bit of the resistance already (7k or so, if you want to trust thoe numbers...) and you can have 14k + fragments tooltip (fully buffed), depending on cp.

Elemental Drain and destro passives make it easier ofc as was mentioned, but obviously not for fragments.

End of the day I have no idea what some people's problem is - nirn is so blatantly overpowered it's not funny anymore, and I can honestly do just fine with either magicka or stamina builds without using a single piece of nirnhoned.
Something like a magicka burst NB with Prox Detonation can kill me very easily if I am not extra careful, but that is a glass cannon setup as well, if I catch them 1v1 and use a detect potion they can't do much against me.

Due to nirn being broke (and exploited), there is little other choice for a sorc except to go the max spell damage route. Maybe some still prefer sustain builds but I figure what is the point unless you want to bolt away a ton.

Due to practically nonexistent viable ways to mitigate physical damage, magicka build players (not just sorcs) who want to enjoy group play are that much more challenged, unless their group always has superhero level healers.

Mr_Nobody · June 2015

k2blader wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

That is possible, just need a glass cannon build...

Demp everything into spell damage > max magicka, get every bit of possible spell penetration. Then you would penetrate a bit of the resistance already (7k or so, if you want to trust thoe numbers...) and you can have 14k + fragments tooltip (fully buffed), depending on cp.

Elemental Drain and destro passives make it easier ofc as was mentioned, but obviously not for fragments.

End of the day I have no idea what some people's problem is - nirn is so blatantly overpowered it's not funny anymore, and I can honestly do just fine with either magicka or stamina builds without using a single piece of nirnhoned.
Something like a magicka burst NB with Prox Detonation can kill me very easily if I am not extra careful, but that is a glass cannon setup as well, if I catch them 1v1 and use a detect potion they can't do much against me.

Due to nirn being broke (and exploited), there is little other choice for a sorc except to go the max spell damage route. Maybe some still prefer sustain builds but I figure what is the point unless you want to bolt away a ton.

Due to practically nonexistent viable ways to mitigate physical damage, magicka build players (not just sorcs) who want to enjoy group play are that much more challenged, unless their group always has superhero level healers.

Superhero healers excel at doing multiple things at once, not just healing. Thats why they need any type of good players in grp to do that, thus, making the grp most effective. In my personal opinion of anyone thats not a healer, you have to learn to take care of yourself first, and only then expect to be healed at *only* the critical moment.