Sick of Tower Farming

Rook_Master

I'm so sick of this crap. This should not be a thing.

Zenimax: Working as intended? Please add like 10 faction NPCs to the basement of towers, as well as an alternate way into the tower.

This tower farming nonsense has gone on for far, far too long.

Saft

Rook_Master wrote: »

I'm so sick of this crap. This should not be a thing.

Zenimax: Working as intended? Please add like 10 faction NPCs to the basement of towers, as well as an alternate way into the tower.

This tower farming nonsense has gone on for far, far too long.

But but but, where do you want all Templars and DK to be? We cannot put our foot on neutral soil without a NB/Sorc ganking us and then use their op escapes to get away.

Rook_Master

Saft wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

I'm so sick of this crap. This should not be a thing.

Zenimax: Working as intended? Please add like 10 faction NPCs to the basement of towers, as well as an alternate way into the tower.

This tower farming nonsense has gone on for far, far too long.

But but but, where do you want all Templars and DK to be? We cannot put our foot on neutral soil without a NB/Sorc ganking us and then use their op escapes to get away.

lolol nerf sorc plz


Now that we've got that out of the way, can we talk about the issue of tower farming? I really think it's overdue for an examination. Why is no one talking about this?

Ezareth

I haven't seen a successful tower farm in ages. Is this still a thing?

Every time I see some group try this I stack shields, wait for 1-2 pieces of fodder to go through the door and clear mines/fire ballistas etc, Bolt escape/barrel roll up the stairs and start pouring oil until the AP stops.

AP Farmers gonna farm AP. If it isn't tower farming it will be the Alessia bridge or a Scroll in the Winery. Bads are attracted to AP Farms like moths to flame.

Rook_Master

Ezareth wrote: »

I haven't seen a successful tower farm in ages. Is this still a thing?

Every time I see some group try this I stack shields, wait for 1-2 pieces of fodder to go through the door and clear mines/fire ballistas etc, Bolt escape/barrel roll up the stairs and start pouring oil until the AP stops.

AP Farmers gonna farm AP. If it isn't tower farming it will be the Alessia bridge or a Scroll in the Winery. Bads are attracted to AP Farms like moths to flame.

There are still plenty of groups doing this.

Personally I just stay away from these people, but like you said, the PUGs can't resist.

Adding some NPCs to the basement seems like a good fix, doesn't it?

Ezareth

Rook_Master wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I haven't seen a successful tower farm in ages. Is this still a thing?

Every time I see some group try this I stack shields, wait for 1-2 pieces of fodder to go through the door and clear mines/fire ballistas etc, Bolt escape/barrel roll up the stairs and start pouring oil until the AP stops.

AP Farmers gonna farm AP. If it isn't tower farming it will be the Alessia bridge or a Scroll in the Winery. Bads are attracted to AP Farms like moths to flame.

There are still plenty of groups doing this.

Personally I just stay away from these people, but like you said, the PUGs can't resist.

Adding some NPCs to the basement seems like a good fix, doesn't it?

Do you think NPCs are going to stop the groups that can do this successfully? Like I said, AP farmers are going to farm, just like many people can't resist chasing the sorc. Personally I like trolling farmers who try to tower farm.

I don't AP Farm and I think the guys who dedicate their time to this in Cyrodiil are usually far worse players than the guys you see running solo or in small group PvP. This is why you're rarely catch me in a group larger than 3-4...it's just not fun any more. You either zerg ball, sit on a resource and collect "ticks" and generally just farm bads who have zero chance at success. I like giving everyone I play against a fighting chance, otherwise Cyrodiil is just another PvE zone where we farm AP instead of Exp.

Rook_Master

Ezareth wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I haven't seen a successful tower farm in ages. Is this still a thing?

Every time I see some group try this I stack shields, wait for 1-2 pieces of fodder to go through the door and clear mines/fire ballistas etc, Bolt escape/barrel roll up the stairs and start pouring oil until the AP stops.

AP Farmers gonna farm AP. If it isn't tower farming it will be the Alessia bridge or a Scroll in the Winery. Bads are attracted to AP Farms like moths to flame.

There are still plenty of groups doing this.

Personally I just stay away from these people, but like you said, the PUGs can't resist.

Adding some NPCs to the basement seems like a good fix, doesn't it?

Do you think NPCs are going to stop the groups that can do this successfully? Like I said, AP farmers are going to farm, just like many people can't resist chasing the sorc. Personally I like trolling farmers who try to tower farm.

I don't AP Farm and I think the guys who dedicate their time to this in Cyrodiil are usually far worse players than the guys you see running solo or in small group PvP. This is why you're rarely catch me in a group larger than 3-4...it's just not fun any more. You either zerg ball, sit on a resource and collect "ticks" and generally just farm bads who have zero chance at success. I like giving everyone I play against a fighting chance, otherwise Cyrodiil is just another PvE zone where we farm AP instead of Exp.

I feel like if there were NPCs down there, it would make it much more difficult to set up in there.

However the group I saw doing this yesterday was a full raid from a well-known "elite" guild, so maybe it wouldn't have stopped them. It's more of a shame that there are 20+ adults willing to engage in this type of behavior. It makes me sad for the state of the community as a whole.

Snit

So don't be a turnip.

You can't be tower-farmed if you don't volunteer for it. If you don't have an organized group that can root them out, just move on elsewhere.

Jaiden

Don't cap the resource, seige and bring the tower down. Problem solved. I can't count the number of times *** cap the resource while the enemy turtles inside. It's your own fault for letting it happen.

Zargorius

Or ZOS could put the flags inside the towers so you need to siege those first...that would be interesting.

Etaniel

Rook_Master wrote: »

I feel like if there were NPCs down there, it would make it much more difficult to set up in there.

However the group I saw doing this yesterday was a full raid from a well-known "elite" guild, so maybe it wouldn't have stopped them. It's more of a shame that there are 20+ adults willing to engage in this type of behavior. It makes me sad for the state of the community as a whole.

You make no sense at all. Those 20+ adults came to cyrodil to kill people. The people that they kill are clearly inferior and outplayed. So what's wrong about inferior and outplayed people getting killed? You'll tell me there's nothing strategic about tower farming, I'll tell you it's clearly more strategy than those pugs can grasp, since they keep running inside.
It makes me sad that you have to blame the community of this game, as for me, this community is way better and more mature than most other online games out there.

Ezareth wrote: »

Do you think NPCs are going to stop the groups that can do this successfully? Like I said, AP farmers are going to farm, just like many people can't resist chasing the sorc. Personally I like trolling farmers who try to tower farm.

I don't AP Farm and I think the guys who dedicate their time to this in Cyrodiil are usually far worse players than the guys you see running solo or in small group PvP. This is why you're rarely catch me in a group larger than 3-4...it's just not fun any more. You either zerg ball, sit on a resource and collect "ticks" and generally just farm bads who have zero chance at success. I like giving everyone I play against a fighting chance, otherwise Cyrodiil is just another PvE zone where we farm AP instead of Exp.

@Ezareth What do you mean by "far worse players than the guys you see running solo or in small group PvP"? Who ever complained about solo or small scale groups?

I give people a fighting chance when I duel, I do my best not to give them that chance when I encounter them in open field. (Because I'm not a sorc and I have zero choice anyways )

Dositheus

Zargorius wrote: »

Or ZOS could put the flags inside the towers so you need to siege those first...that would be interesting.

Interesting idea.

SoulScream

I just really hate how you can't siege when it flips friendly. Last night we were one hit away from bringing the tower down and some snip caps the rss. grrr lol

Rook_Master

How about allowing the tower to be damaged by friendly fire?

That also seems like a decent solution.

AhPook_Is_Here

Rook_Master wrote: »

How about allowing the tower to be damaged by friendly fire?

That also seems like a decent solution.

Woh, free ticket to emp on dead servers, good idea!

Rook_Master

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

How about allowing the tower to be damaged by friendly fire?

That also seems like a decent solution.

Woh, free ticket to emp on dead servers, good idea!

If they really wanted to, they could have their friend from a different faction damage the tower as well.

Also, so many people already have emp from the trading that went on back in the day, that it is hardly meaningful anymore.

Ezareth

Etaniel wrote: »

[
@Ezareth What do you mean by "far worse players than the guys you see running solo or in small group PvP"? Who ever complained about solo or small scale groups?

I give people a fighting chance when I duel, I do my best not to give them that chance when I encounter them in open field. (Because I'm not a sorc and I have zero choice anyways )

I'm just saying the best players I've come across in Cyrodiil I don't find in AP farming groups. There are exceptions of course, but 9 times out of 10 when I see one of these high ranked AP farmers running around alone they're just terrible. It probably has to do with the fact they rarely have to rely on just themselves and their own abilities/skills to survive and don't know what to do when they're attacked by a couple people outside of their zergball/farm group.

I've done the whole AP farm thing with the best players in the game, It can be fun...but only in the way doing a PvE raid is fun. You crush a bunch of "mobs" grind loot/exp and everyone has a blast on TS. It's boring to me though and I just don't find myself challenged in any of those scenarios. Even when you're fighting huge zergs on the cusp of your whole group wiping, you're mainly doing things that have large Macro effects like firing siege, using AoE ults/abilities, pouring oil etc. Those things just don't require the attention to detail to me that playing in smaller group/solo settings has.

Oughash

Honestly, I don't see the problem. Tower fights are sometimes fun. And, its a good way to escape huge f*ing zergs when in small groups. And if you see a big group in a tower... just leave them there. Not doing anything.

kkravaritieb17_ESO

If you re stupid enough to enter the tower then sorry to say you deserve to get rekt. Stop whining plz and use your brains.

tinythinker

jeremyrisleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Don't cap the resource...

Ah, memories. How many times in the past 12+ months have I seen this pleaded repeatedly in chat when a tower farm is being set up?

Rook_Master

Ezareth wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

[
@Ezareth What do you mean by "far worse players than the guys you see running solo or in small group PvP"? Who ever complained about solo or small scale groups?

I give people a fighting chance when I duel, I do my best not to give them that chance when I encounter them in open field. (Because I'm not a sorc and I have zero choice anyways )

I'm just saying the best players I've come across in Cyrodiil I don't find in AP farming groups. There are exceptions of course, but 9 times out of 10 when I see one of these high ranked AP farmers running around alone they're just terrible. It probably has to do with the fact they rarely have to rely on just themselves and their own abilities/skills to survive and don't know what to do when they're attacked by a couple people outside of their zergball/farm group.

I've done the whole AP farm thing with the best players in the game, It can be fun...but only in the way doing a PvE raid is fun. You crush a bunch of "mobs" grind loot/exp and everyone has a blast on TS. It's boring to me though and I just don't find myself challenged in any of those scenarios. Even when you're fighting huge zergs on the cusp of your whole group wiping, you're mainly doing things that have large Macro effects like firing siege, using AoE ults/abilities, pouring oil etc. Those things just don't require the attention to detail to me that playing in smaller group/solo settings has.

But @Ezareth, he doesn't want a challenge, he wants to "win against inferior players" with "superior strategy" by sitting in front of tower doors and spamming fire ballista and steel tornado.

That might be boring to you, but the small mind is easily amused.

Etaniel

Ezareth wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

[
@Ezareth What do you mean by "far worse players than the guys you see running solo or in small group PvP"? Who ever complained about solo or small scale groups?

I give people a fighting chance when I duel, I do my best not to give them that chance when I encounter them in open field. (Because I'm not a sorc and I have zero choice anyways )

I'm just saying the best players I've come across in Cyrodiil I don't find in AP farming groups. There are exceptions of course, but 9 times out of 10 when I see one of these high ranked AP farmers running around alone they're just terrible. It probably has to do with the fact they rarely have to rely on just themselves and their own abilities/skills to survive and don't know what to do when they're attacked by a couple people outside of their zergball/farm group.

I've done the whole AP farm thing with the best players in the game, It can be fun...but only in the way doing a PvE raid is fun. You crush a bunch of "mobs" grind loot/exp and everyone has a blast on TS. It's boring to me though and I just don't find myself challenged in any of those scenarios. Even when you're fighting huge zergs on the cusp of your whole group wiping, you're mainly doing things that have large Macro effects like firing siege, using AoE ults/abilities, pouring oil etc. Those things just don't require the attention to detail to me that playing in smaller group/solo settings has.

I agree with you 100%, except that I like some larger group play from times to times so i can turn off my brain and just listen to the group leader ^^

Those players, when you encounter them solo are usually easy targets, some because they never play solo and have no clue how to do it, others because they are in their group spec and are only trying to join their group when you stumble upon them, so obviously they aren't ready to take on a strong opponent.

I was just asking you because you said "worse than" which led me to believe you thought solo players or smallscale players were bad in general, which is obviously not your opinion
Not everything requires challenge to be fun ! To each their own I guess

Ezareth

Ishammael wrote: »

Honestly, I don't see the problem. Tower fights are sometimes fun. And, its a good way to escape huge f*ing zergs when in small groups. And if you see a big group in a tower... just leave them there. Not doing anything.

I remember one time I stole a 9K tick from Prett's tower farming group back in the day. You actually get defense ticks for your own players dying. They were farming AD bads so long and I was doing my thing bolting around in a circle upstairs with them chasing me instead of recapping the flag. The pugs got tired and gave up and no one died in a minute and I got the tick.

Rook_Master wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

[
@Ezareth What do you mean by "far worse players than the guys you see running solo or in small group PvP"? Who ever complained about solo or small scale groups?

I give people a fighting chance when I duel, I do my best not to give them that chance when I encounter them in open field. (Because I'm not a sorc and I have zero choice anyways )

I'm just saying the best players I've come across in Cyrodiil I don't find in AP farming groups. There are exceptions of course, but 9 times out of 10 when I see one of these high ranked AP farmers running around alone they're just terrible. It probably has to do with the fact they rarely have to rely on just themselves and their own abilities/skills to survive and don't know what to do when they're attacked by a couple people outside of their zergball/farm group.

I've done the whole AP farm thing with the best players in the game, It can be fun...but only in the way doing a PvE raid is fun. You crush a bunch of "mobs" grind loot/exp and everyone has a blast on TS. It's boring to me though and I just don't find myself challenged in any of those scenarios. Even when you're fighting huge zergs on the cusp of your whole group wiping, you're mainly doing things that have large Macro effects like firing siege, using AoE ults/abilities, pouring oil etc. Those things just don't require the attention to detail to me that playing in smaller group/solo settings has.

But @Ezareth, he doesn't want a challenge, he wants to "win against inferior players" with "superior strategy" by sitting in front of tower doors and spamming fire ballista and steel tornado.

That might be boring to you, but the small mind is easily amused.

Well I've done a few Sorc-Assassin tower farms in my day. They can be fun, especially when you drop 25 Daedric mines on the front door and people are insta-gibbed the moment they go through the door. Some people though just make this their "thing" in cyrodiil and man that seems boring to me. The view inside a tower is not very scenic ( =

Etaniel

Rook_Master wrote: »

But @Ezareth, he doesn't want a challenge, he wants to "win against inferior players" with "superior strategy" by sitting in front of tower doors and spamming fire ballista and steel tornado.

That might be boring to you, but the small mind is easily amused.

Actually, my idea of success in a PvP game is to make everyone feel inferior when they face me, so in the end yes I wanna kill inferior players all day long. That's my challenge, to reach the point where I'm so superior that there is no chalenge anymore Of course it's not something I can achieve, but I was damn close in 1.5

Call me small mind all you want, but I'm open to all forms of PvP, from duels to solo roaming, to smallscale to 24 man raids.

Garion

You can blame ZOS for significantly buffing the viability of siege in these situations. Following the removal of ground oil resource tower farming became a less viable way of farming AP - although it could be done, there were better options such as bridges and mile gates which yielded far higher AP and significantly less risk of being overrun in a small space.

With siege being as strong as it is now you effectively have a ranged version of the old ground oil that makes it incredibly easy to control the numbers coming through the door and prevent being overrun.

Joy_Division

Putting NPCs in the tower wont matter because they are too easy to kill.

Tower farming used to be incredibly annoying because ground oils made it so easy for the defenders to insta-kill the attackers. As Ezareth pointed out, tower farming only works with inexperienced players now. There is something of a routine that works fairly well:

• 4-5 people operate fire trebs to hit top and middle floors.
• templars stand at the door spamming Breath of Lie (heals go through walls...or maybe not since there is no "roof")
• people entering immediately dodge roll up the stairs (if you slot immovable before you go in, there is little they can do aside from a lucky fire ballista shot).

Tower is usually cleared in about 90 seconds or so...be sure to stick around for the 1.5K defensive tick ironically provided by the would-be tower AP farmers.

Gargragrond

Anything but running between keeps in huge zergs should be a thing. I find those tower fights refreshing. Haven't participated in the farming myself, but as a DK, one of the few remaining unique things we can do is put on some corrosive armor and unstoppable and run upstairs through the annihilation where I can finally find some nice close quarters small scale combat, while the farmers downstairs keep pondering whether they should chase me or keep guarding the door

On related note, some time ago I was delighted to find that a small enemy group had managed to climb on the top of that Chalman gate (didn't know you can get up there) - it was quite fun trying to figure out the best way to flush them out of there. I think these kinds of things should be encouraged. And if you don't like it, what's the harm really? You can ignore it and it doesn't affect campaign scoring etc. In these kind of situations you can finally get a bit creative with some niche skills you would never use in a normal build.

OtarTheMad

I agree with the OP completely. That and Roof farming at a keep, it's just annoying. We just need to all walk away if we take a resource and the enemy is in the tower, just walk away. Roof farming... I don't know. They could make it where fixing the inner breach makes it not possible for them to cap the keep... so they'd have to siege the inner down again to capture flags. That might help.

It's funny that it's small things killing PVP but due to lack of attention/fixing they've become bigger issues.

RadioheadSh0t

Sick of being farmed in towers?

You can:

A) Go somewhere else
Destroy the tower before taking the flag
C) get an organized group to break it up, it's a pretty easy tactic to beat if you know what you're doing

krim

Rook_Master wrote: »

I'm so sick of this crap. This should not be a thing.

Zenimax: Working as intended? Please add like 10 faction NPCs to the basement of towers, as well as an alternate way into the tower.

This tower farming nonsense has gone on for far, far too long.

I guess before you can learn to play you need to actually have a brain.

SturgeHammer

My biggest issue with tower farming has nothing to do with the farm aspect, if people want to do that then whatever, it's the design of resource captures that enables this that bothers me. ZOS designed a system in which capturing resources is supposed to reward the capturing alliance, they put giant banners at each one begging you to stand on it and take control. It is extremely hard for new pvpers, casual pvpers, and even some experienced pvpers to want to go against what is clearly illistrated to be a good thing by the game. Hanging back to destroy what is soon to be your property is extremely counter intuitive, and not obvious to most why it should be done. Staying in your enemies tower Should be counter intuitive or at least provide an interesting risk/reward decision to be made by the enemy, but it's made mostly advantageous by the not so obvious building destruction mechanics. Many will say this is all an L2P issue, and that's true because this can be completely avoided by everyone learning the mechanics of the situation. Asking players to learn those mechanics and go against what the designer put in place is a design flaw. Not judging players on either side of this, just pointing it out the weirdness in hopes of a future redesign.