Sick of Tower Farming

AnteCoyote

Don't like farms? Stop feeding. Personally I like breaking them up and getting the tick they build up whenever possible.

krim

SturgeHammer wrote: »

My biggest issue with tower farming has nothing to do with the farm aspect, if people want to do that then whatever, it's the design of resource captures that enables this that bothers me. ZOS designed a system in which capturing resources is supposed to reward the capturing alliance, they put giant banners at each one begging you to stand on it and take control. It is extremely hard for new pvpers, casual pvpers, and even some experienced pvpers to want to go against what is clearly illistrated to be a good thing by the game. Hanging back to destroy what is soon to be your property is extremely counter intuitive, and not obvious to most why it should be done. Staying in your enemies tower Should be counter intuitive or at least provide an interesting risk/reward decision to be made by the enemy, but it's made mostly advantageous by the not so obvious building destruction mechanics. Many will say this is all an L2P issue, and that's true because this can be completely avoided by everyone learning the mechanics of the situation. Asking players to learn those mechanics and go against what the designer put in place is a design flaw. Not judging players on either side of this, just pointing it out the weirdness in hopes of a future redesign.

Flag in the tower and flag outside. If theres a enemy inside the resource doesnt flip, could be an easy fix. Destroying the tower however to kill the enemies inside is not counter intuitive. You do the same thing to keep walls before you take it over. You said it was a L2P issue, im not going to argue there. You pvp to kill other people in game. There is no design flaw in a BIG open world where things can become wildly unbalanced in numbers. The only flaw is the designer lack of attention and vision for pvp/cyrodiil.

kevlarto_ESO

Best thing you can do when the ap farmers move into a tower or a farm house is just leave them be, they will come out when they are board, just keep them out of the keeps if all possible, catch them on the move they fold like paper dolls in open field battles, because once settled in they can suck the fun out of the entire campaign, they just runaround rocks spamming aoe's not really helping their faction, because they are driven by one thing greed for their own ap rank, guess that's ok if that's your cup of tea, but if both sides of the keyboard are not having fun people will leave. /shrug

krim

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

Best thing you can do when the ap farmers move into a tower or a farm house is just leave them be, they will come out when they are board, just keep them out of the keeps if all possible, catch them on the move they fold like paper dolls in open field battles, because once settled in they can suck the fun out of the entire campaign, they just runaround rocks spamming aoe's not really helping their faction, because they are driven by one thing greed for their own ap rank, guess that's ok if that's your cup of tea, but if both sides of the keyboard are not having fun people will leave. /shrug

For most the AP is not a big deal at all. Its about winning and losing. Who ever is winning is having fun, and whoever is losing is not.

Rojnaar

Really? Why whine about tower farms, it's easy enough not to run in. And this "Tower Farms are so Low Brow" attitude from some folks... oh please...

Hell with that, if I'm with a couple friends and another faction is running a full pop-lock together, steamrolling, I'm going to jump in a tower and farm that large population. I'm going to tower farm you until you cry tears of blood, then I'll tower farm you some more.

Then I'll use your tears to buy some craptasstic boxes and make you pay me 6 digits in gold for the morag tong I got for killing you.

Rook_Master

Just add NPCs, and an alternate door into the back of the tower, and problem solved.

I really don't feel like I'm asking for much here.

RedTalon

Why you always destroy a tower before caping a resource

Teargrants

Here is how literally every tower farm goes: farmers set up on door and farm brain dead pugs that rush in, smart ppl keep fire trebs hitting the 2nd floor so farmers can't go up there. Other smart people get inside, go up the stairs and set up oil pouring down. This pushes farmers off the back half of the 1st floor. More smart people get in to the 2nd floor, when there are enough they rush down and assjam the farmers.

The other alternative is the farmers stealth off the 2nd floor and hit ppl when they try taking the flag, but then it's not tower farm is it?

Instead of QQing just don't go in to feed the farmers unless you're capable of surviveing to reach the 2nd floor.

RadioheadSh0t

Rook_Master wrote: »

Just add NPCs, and an alternate door into the back of the tower, and problem solved.

I really don't feel like I'm asking for much here.

Adding NPCs won't do a single thing. Any group worth a damn will wipe them almost instantaneously.

The back of the Tower is a staircase, you can't put a door there and it doesn't really do anything to solve your supposed problem, because the better tower farms are at the second and third level.

ZOS doesn't need to do anything about tower farming because it isn't a problem. No one is forcing you to run in there, you have no one but yourself to blame if you feed them, and there are more than enough ways to stop it.

Less QQ, more pew pew.

Arito

Just take the doors off and remove the >95% repair-even-if-under-attack nonsense and it would 1: be more interesting to defend a tower, and 2: prevent people from sieging keeps from the resource towers while a zerg inside spams repair kits indefinitely.

WebBull

I don't think it is an issue and it can be fun sometimes. No more PvE guards please.

Davenaro

lol what do you mean why is it a thing? It only happens because of YOU. Just don't go in lol

BrassRazoo

As soon as the resource flips, those inside the tower should start taking DoT or something.

driosketch

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I agree with the OP completely. That and Roof farming at a keep, it's just annoying. We just need to all walk away if we take a resource and the enemy is in the tower, just walk away. Roof farming... I don't know. They could make it where fixing the inner breach makes it not possible for them to cap the keep... so they'd have to siege the inner down again to capture flags. That might help.

It's funny that it's small things killing PVP but due to lack of attention/fixing they've become bigger issues.

Which is extremely annoying. I didn't even realize you could destroy those stairs. Why is that a thing?

Anyways, just go down stairs and wait them out. The keep won't even light up if they aren't killing anyone and they can't cap the flags from up there.

FMonk

Is this thread actually serious? If you die to a tower farm, it's 100% your fault, not Zenimax's, not the other players', yours. There are plenty of things we can complain about in PvP, this isn't one of them.

ToRelax

driosketch wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I agree with the OP completely. That and Roof farming at a keep, it's just annoying. We just need to all walk away if we take a resource and the enemy is in the tower, just walk away. Roof farming... I don't know. They could make it where fixing the inner breach makes it not possible for them to cap the keep... so they'd have to siege the inner down again to capture flags. That might help.

It's funny that it's small things killing PVP but due to lack of attention/fixing they've become bigger issues.

Which is extremely annoying. I didn't even realize you could destroy those stairs. Why is that a thing?

Anyways, just go down stairs and wait them out. The keep won't even light up if they aren't killing anyone and they can't cap the flags from up there.

The keep will flag if they simply shoot again or kill some NPC.

IxSTALKERxI

Ezareth wrote: »

There are exceptions of course, but 9 times out of 10 when I see one of these high ranked AP farmers running around alone they're just terrible. It probably has to do with the fact they rarely have to rely on just themselves and their own abilities/skills to survive and don't know what to do when they're attacked by a couple people outside of their zergball/farm group.

Keep in mind good group players use builds for group plays... Sometimes if you find one of these players on their own (they may have gone afk and be on their way to rejoin their group) they may not even have 1 single offensive ability on their bar or no way to sustain themselves on their own. Try running around solo with nothing on your bar but caltrops and cleanse and see how you go lol. :P


As for the tower farming, get rid of the door and place the flag in the tower. Good groups don't need a tower to farm AP anyway lol.

kijima

FMonk wrote: »

Is this thread actually serious? If you die to a tower farm, it's 100% your fault, not Zenimax's, not the other players', yours. There are plenty of things we can complain about in PvP, this isn't one of them.

^ Agreed.

Laggus

Ishammael wrote: »

Honestly, I don't see the problem. Tower fights are sometimes fun. And, its a good way to escape huge f*ing zergs when in small groups. And if you see a big group in a tower... just leave them there. Not doing anything.

They tend to pick the towers in range of keep walls and can siege from. If they are left there they simply bring down a Keep wall. Then its just meals on wheels for them as they know people will have to come to them. It's a crumby style of play though.

Satiar

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

There are exceptions of course, but 9 times out of 10 when I see one of these high ranked AP farmers running around alone they're just terrible. It probably has to do with the fact they rarely have to rely on just themselves and their own abilities/skills to survive and don't know what to do when they're attacked by a couple people outside of their zergball/farm group.

Keep in mind good group players use builds for group plays... Sometimes if you find one of these players on their own (they may have gone afk and be on their way to rejoin their group) they may not even have 1 single offensive ability on their bar or no way to sustain themselves on their own. Try running around solo with nothing on your bar but caltrops and cleanse and see how you go lol. :P


As for the tower farming, get rid of the door and place the flag in the tower. Good groups don't need a tower to farm AP anyway lol.

I hate getting caught on my group build so bad. I try to kill people with Rapid Maneuvers but it just don't work!

kijima

Yeah, I've done that but with purge. No matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't manage to focus down my enemy with Purge.

I can only imagine the lol's from my enemy.

Not my greatest moment, but my excuse was excessive Alcohol consumption, what was yours?

Ghostbane

Stop going into the towers. Unless I'm in there, come in and say hai.

eliisra

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Keep in mind good group players use builds for group plays... Sometimes if you find one of these players on their own (they may have gone afk and be on their way to rejoin their group) they may not even have 1 single offensive ability on their bar or no way to sustain themselves on their own. Try running around solo with nothing on your bar but caltrops and cleanse and see how you go lol. :P

Ugh I know what you mean. Bar consists of synergies, heals, and support. Best case you have some type of AoE or 1 offensive skill. Than you crash and get separated. Naturally run into some solo specc'ed hero, who thinks you two are having a great 1v1 duel and he's all excited about it. Might even send a tell "GF, to bad we got interrupted"

Also why organized groups will kick the living hell out if pugs, they have people in there willing to drop their ego's and be completely pathetic solo, to strengthen the group lol.

About tower farming or recourse camping, in some cases it can be a good thing. Alternative to keep zerging, more spread out fights. Something to do for smaller groups, that wants to flee the lag. It's when you get like 30-40 guys farming a tower, that it feels a bit counter productive.

qsnoopyjr

Rook_Master wrote: »

Saft wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

I'm so sick of this crap. This should not be a thing.

Zenimax: Working as intended? Please add like 10 faction NPCs to the basement of towers, as well as an alternate way into the tower.

This tower farming nonsense has gone on for far, far too long.

But but but, where do you want all Templars and DK to be? We cannot put our foot on neutral soil without a NB/Sorc ganking us and then use their op escapes to get away.

lolol nerf sorc plz


Now that we've got that out of the way, can we talk about the issue of tower farming? I really think it's overdue for an examination. Why is no one talking about this?

Ya nightblades and sorc need something nerfed to prevent them from easily getting away.
Really hate seeing someone go invisible with 5 people wailing at him.
I saw a sorc the other day teleporting too fast to get away, its like they was invulnerable too, like you couldnt stop him or anything.. immune to everything.

Game needs more roots, snares, and such. Some with if person removes the roots, 50% of there magic and stamina is drained.

But back on topic tower farming.
Ironic, I made a post about this like a week or 2 ago.
Everyone responded like they know exactly what to do.. Take down the tower, THAN you capture the flag.

But does ANYONE do that??

It's like to get 6 pack abs, you do ab workouts, and diet diet diet...
But does ANYONE do that??

Everyone knows how to get a 6 pack ab, but how may people you see have them?

Anyways, to solve the issue, just simply allow trebbing catapulting through the windows of the tower.
I always see people sieging the tower when its ours, but its not doing anything, for it to do something allow fire through the open windows.

To solve people not having 6 pack abs. Well thats a different subject, you see women with butt implants, boob implants... But do you see men OR women with 6 pack ab implants? Nope. 6 pack ab implants must very dangerous or something, compared to something in your butt or your chest. Sorry folks, getting 6 pack abs there are no shortcuts besides hard workouts and diet diet diet!

I solved how to get the people out of the tower, but couldn't solve how to get 6 pack abs..
1 for 2 isn't bad start!

Teargrants

Satiar wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

There are exceptions of course, but 9 times out of 10 when I see one of these high ranked AP farmers running around alone they're just terrible. It probably has to do with the fact they rarely have to rely on just themselves and their own abilities/skills to survive and don't know what to do when they're attacked by a couple people outside of their zergball/farm group.

Keep in mind good group players use builds for group plays... Sometimes if you find one of these players on their own (they may have gone afk and be on their way to rejoin their group) they may not even have 1 single offensive ability on their bar or no way to sustain themselves on their own. Try running around solo with nothing on your bar but caltrops and cleanse and see how you go lol. :P


As for the tower farming, get rid of the door and place the flag in the tower. Good groups don't need a tower to farm AP anyway lol.

I hate getting caught on my group build so bad. I try to kill people with Rapid Maneuvers but it just don't work!

What's a group build?

Oughash

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

Game needs more roots, snares, and such. Some with if person removes the roots, 50% of there magic and stamina is drained.

Dude, are you even playing ESO right now? If anything, there are too many CCs especially those which don't work properly (fear, etc).

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

To solve people not having 6 pack abs. Well thats a different subject, you see women with butt implants, boob implants... But do you see men OR women with 6 pack ab implants? Nope. 6 pack ab implants must very dangerous or something, compared to something in your butt or your chest. Sorry folks, getting 6 pack abs there are no shortcuts besides hard workouts and diet diet diet!

I solved how to get the people out of the tower, but couldn't solve how to get 6 pack abs..
1 for 2 isn't bad start!

Not gonna lie, this made me laugh. Also, WTF butt implants? Is this a thing?

Etaniel

the fact that this thread derived from tower farming to butt implants clearly shows how unimportant it is

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

But back on topic tower farming.
Ironic, I made a post about this like a week or 2 ago.
Everyone responded like they know exactly what to do.. Take down the tower, THAN you capture the flag.

But does ANYONE do that??

!

Actually yeah, I see a lot of times. But often you have 20 guys who stay off the flag and siege, and 2 or 3 *** who haven't figured out what is going on and who go cap the flag. Meaning the tower goes down to an outraging 5% hp but it can't be destroyed anymore, leaving the farmers safe

SturgeHammer

krim wrote: »

SturgeHammer wrote: »

My biggest issue with tower farming has nothing to do with the farm aspect, if people want to do that then whatever, it's the design of resource captures that enables this that bothers me. ZOS designed a system in which capturing resources is supposed to reward the capturing alliance, they put giant banners at each one begging you to stand on it and take control. It is extremely hard for new pvpers, casual pvpers, and even some experienced pvpers to want to go against what is clearly illistrated to be a good thing by the game. Hanging back to destroy what is soon to be your property is extremely counter intuitive, and not obvious to most why it should be done. Staying in your enemies tower Should be counter intuitive or at least provide an interesting risk/reward decision to be made by the enemy, but it's made mostly advantageous by the not so obvious building destruction mechanics. Many will say this is all an L2P issue, and that's true because this can be completely avoided by everyone learning the mechanics of the situation. Asking players to learn those mechanics and go against what the designer put in place is a design flaw. Not judging players on either side of this, just pointing it out the weirdness in hopes of a future redesign.

Flag in the tower and flag outside. If theres a enemy inside the resource doesnt flip, could be an easy fix. Destroying the tower however to kill the enemies inside is not counter intuitive. You do the same thing to keep walls before you take it over. You said it was a L2P issue, im not going to argue there. You pvp to kill other people in game. There is no design flaw in a BIG open world where things can become wildly unbalanced in numbers. The only flaw is the designer lack of attention and vision for pvp/cyrodiil.

@krim, you are correct, destroying a tower to kill the enemies inside is straight forward and it is done during every keep capture. This would be true of resource captures if doing that were required, like keep captures. Having players do something like intentionally hanging back on a resource cap to destroy a tower first, instead of moving straight to an open flag feels counter intuitive and worth discussion for the sake of visibility. I totally agree that putting a flag in the tower or requiring all enemies inside be dead before the flip can happen would clear up a lot of confusion. Incorporating breaching the tower into the process of capping a resource would provide people a clear reason to do it.

To those who think this discussion is pointless, If ZOS does change the campaign scoring to put a heavier weight on resources then people will start caring at least a little more about this topic. The situation is preventable, but it still happens so talking about it can't hurt.

Bouvin

Quit taking the flag and start sieging down the tower.

Bouvin

Saft wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

I'm so sick of this crap. This should not be a thing.

Zenimax: Working as intended? Please add like 10 faction NPCs to the basement of towers, as well as an alternate way into the tower.

This tower farming nonsense has gone on for far, far too long.

But but but, where do you want all Templars and DK to be? We cannot put our foot on neutral soil without a NB/Sorc ganking us and then use their op escapes to get away.

LOLOLOL

I've been getting hit with light attacks through Cloak when spamming it as fast as I could.

I really wouldn't call Cloak "OP" in it's current state.

Activate cloak: Go invis for 2.9 seconds, but still get hit by everything which also knocks you out of invis. While invis, enemy can still see where you are going because you become a little black transparent bubble.

Activate Streak: Stun everyone around you, teleport out of range from getting attacked, spam to get away faster than anyone other than other Sorc can chase.