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ZERG losing ZOS money

Armethius
Armethius
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im starting this thread because we all know money rules the world. ZOS wants to make money, by getting more subscribers, and more paid subscribers. I think they will lose subscribers if they don't fix the power of a 24 player zerg.

i am an avid fan of elder scrolls games, and I love cyrodil, however, playing tonight was unbearable. there is no way to take down the group of 24 red zerglings that was farming in between alessia and sej tonight. they are invincible.

i am also not sure how to fix it, i have ideas, but I'm sure ZOS has thought of them all. Make siege even more powerful, make each class have an aoe skill that gains power when it hits more enemies; decrease group sizes... those are the few i have thought of.

we obviously want massive 40 on 40 battles, but i don't think any of us want 40 on a blob of zerging invincible enemies.

PLEASE GINA, PLEASE ZOS, PLEASE fix this somehow, especially before it comes to consoles. WE ALL WANT A LARGER MORE HAPPY SUBSCRIBER BASE. All the newbies are getting killed, and quitting the way the game is now...

thanks,
Armethius
  • krim
    krim
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    Yeah this an impossible task.. Zerging/blobbing or w.e you want to call it is a strategy in any pvp game. 1.6 was supposed to fix blobbing and lag for you folks but failed. Theres nothing you can do about 40 people grouping up and rolling over things no matter what they change. Simple math really.

    Now that the game consist of people just getting blown up (thanks to all the game mechanic changes in 1.6). It just makes these huge groups even stronger because a smaller group has no chance what so ever. So like i been saying we are still in the same situation of getting zerged with massive lag. If you look back before 1.6 there was thread saying we need to increase the AoE cap to deal with these zergs. You will find several of my guildies saying how that wont fix anything and just create more lag. How did we know because we were fighting zergs in 4-8 man groups np without aoe caps. You just needed the right set of skills and itemization. No one wanted to listen now we have no way to deal with zergs but they decided to increase aoe caps to make lag worse. GG i think its time for that system restore.
  • krim
    krim
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    This is huntlers post before! BEFORE WE KNEW THAT THEY WOULD NERF OUR ULTI GAIN. AND STILL

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/130425/a-word-of-caution-on-aoe-caps/p1

  • krim
    krim
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  • Beesting
    Beesting
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    If there is a zerg farming you, you can do 3 things:

    1. Go to a different part of the map
    2. Go to your guest campain
    3. Go do some pve

    Just running back into the fight only rewards farming, try to witstand the temptation :neutral:
    Beesting, Bosmer Magica DK, AD EU, crafter
    Slager, Dunmer Magica DK, DC EU, pvp
    Farmer, Dunmer Magica DK, AD EU, trials build

    Every major patch looks like the end of the world but somehow i just cannot stop playing.
  • krim
    krim
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    Hey look its a small man group playing to their strengths. Bottle necking larger groups into bridges and mile gates.





    Well we got the aoe caps removed but lets change all the mechanics that made it possible to combat zergs. So now when the giant red zerg shows up on allessia bridge you cant do ***. Except go to another part of the map, or another campaign rofl. Even better go pve haha

    In a game with all the different combinations of skills/armor/sets/enchants/passives you cant expect your bow build to work in every situation. But Thank you, all you one trick pony build users, qqers, and people who are oh so quick to call someone an exploiter. You people who wanted to play the way you want. You got it, everyone is now rocking the same builds and you still cant do anything about the zergs.

  • Cody
    Cody
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    krim wrote: »
    Hey look its a small man group playing to their strengths. Bottle necking larger groups into bridges and mile gates.





    Well we got the aoe caps removed but lets change all the mechanics that made it possible to combat zergs. So now when the giant red zerg shows up on allessia bridge you cant do ***. Except go to another part of the map, or another campaign rofl. Even better go pve haha

    In a game with all the different combinations of skills/armor/sets/enchants/passives you cant expect your bow build to work in every situation. But Thank you, all you one trick pony build users, qqers, and people who are oh so quick to call someone an exploiter. You people who wanted to play the way you want. You got it, everyone is now rocking the same builds and you still cant do anything about the zergs.

    heard ya the first time:)

    #Argonianmasterrace
  • krim
    krim
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    Cody wrote: »
    krim wrote: »
    Hey look its a small man group playing to their strengths. Bottle necking larger groups into bridges and mile gates.





    Well we got the aoe caps removed but lets change all the mechanics that made it possible to combat zergs. So now when the giant red zerg shows up on allessia bridge you cant do ***. Except go to another part of the map, or another campaign rofl. Even better go pve haha

    In a game with all the different combinations of skills/armor/sets/enchants/passives you cant expect your bow build to work in every situation. But Thank you, all you one trick pony build users, qqers, and people who are oh so quick to call someone an exploiter. You people who wanted to play the way you want. You got it, everyone is now rocking the same builds and you still cant do anything about the zergs.

    heard ya the first time:)

    #Argonianmasterrace

    I dont think so.. the first time was before 1.6 when i was trying to teach people how to play, and not be so ignorant. Im actually enjoying this now that we are still complaining about the same topics when zos did what they did in 1.6 to change blobbing and lag. Since its failed massively its obvious people just needed to l2p. Since the game is just zerg or die now theres really nothing to learn anymore.
    Edited by krim on May 1, 2015 2:58AM
  • krim
    krim
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    tPCYxcS.png

    It's brilliant because it does more and more damage the more people it hits! If 24 people are stacked, for example, the last person infected by it will take the initial damage... X24!!!

    ZOS, put something similar in the game (a deployable Dwemer construct that shoots out chained lightning, for example) and people will be very reluctant to all stack up together all the time.

    A skill is not going to do anything to a zerg of players spamming heals and purges. We need certain mechanics to change again(revert) not adding skills that are just band aid fixes that dont promote any type of skill play. Oh hey theres a huge group let me cast this spell. This is a game that promoted large scale battles but here we are in 1.6 still crying about blobs. At this point rightfully so, because there is no way to combat a zerg without a zerg. But some people dont find it fun to follow 23 or more people around just literally mowing people down not knowing for sure if they ever even did anything to contribute.

    Does this guy even play his own game? What is he even talking about? Stick to the herd or die? Feels a lot more like that now. Notice how he says fighting at the bridge.. Hes probably in one of my groups bridge videos getting rekt. Start it at 31:29 seconds

    Edited by krim on May 1, 2015 4:45AM
  • Darkonflare15
    Darkonflare15
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    krim wrote: »
    tPCYxcS.png

    It's brilliant because it does more and more damage the more people it hits! If 24 people are stacked, for example, the last person infected by it will take the initial damage... X24!!!

    ZOS, put something similar in the game (a deployable Dwemer construct that shoots out chained lightning, for example) and people will be very reluctant to all stack up together all the time.

    A skill is not going to do anything to a zerg of players spamming heals and purges. We need certain mechanics to change again(revert) not adding skills that are just band aid fixes that dont promote any type of skill play. Oh hey theres a huge group let me cast this spell. This is a game that promoted large scale battles but here we are in 1.6 still crying about blobs. At this point rightfully so, because there is no way to combat a zerg without a zerg. But some people dont find it fun to follow 23 or more people around just literally mowing people down not knowing for sure if they ever even did anything to contribute.

    Does this guy even play his own game? What is he even talking about? Stick to the herd or die? Feels a lot more like that now. Notice how he says fighting at the bridge.. Hes probably in one of my groups bridge videos getting rekt. Start it at 31:29 seconds
    To be honest, he was talking about how it was before they boost up the siege damage. He basically state they wanted a siege warfare PvP not a street fight like most players play right now. Even though he stated I hope just five more rewards for playing that way.
  • jody.roaneub17_ESO
    ZERGS are not making ZOS lose money OP. The carebears who can't do anything about it just don't want to play this game. Its understandable nothing wrong with being a carebear. Just go to do carebear stuff and let these people have their one game in which they can have fun and enjoy themselves.
    Edited by jody.roaneub17_ESO on May 1, 2015 5:24AM
  • cozmon3c_ESO
    cozmon3c_ESO
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    Nope zergs and LAG caused by zergs are killing the pvp.
    Guild UMBRA Chapter Lead
    ~Leper Si -V14 Sorcerer~
    Youtube Channel - Leper
    https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCozmon3c/videos
  • jody.roaneub17_ESO
    You might have a point with the lag thing. Is it really that game breaking?
  • krim
    krim
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    krim wrote: »
    tPCYxcS.png

    It's brilliant because it does more and more damage the more people it hits! If 24 people are stacked, for example, the last person infected by it will take the initial damage... X24!!!

    ZOS, put something similar in the game (a deployable Dwemer construct that shoots out chained lightning, for example) and people will be very reluctant to all stack up together all the time.

    A skill is not going to do anything to a zerg of players spamming heals and purges. We need certain mechanics to change again(revert) not adding skills that are just band aid fixes that dont promote any type of skill play. Oh hey theres a huge group let me cast this spell. This is a game that promoted large scale battles but here we are in 1.6 still crying about blobs. At this point rightfully so, because there is no way to combat a zerg without a zerg. But some people dont find it fun to follow 23 or more people around just literally mowing people down not knowing for sure if they ever even did anything to contribute.

    Does this guy even play his own game? What is he even talking about? Stick to the herd or die? Feels a lot more like that now. Notice how he says fighting at the bridge.. Hes probably in one of my groups bridge videos getting rekt. Start it at 31:29 seconds
    To be honest, he was talking about how it was before they boost up the siege damage. He basically state they wanted a siege warfare PvP not a street fight like most players play right now. Even though he stated I hope just five more rewards for playing that way.

    I rewatched it and maybe he meant it that way. Other then when the dmg was super high because of things effecting the dmg, and the first ticks of trebs applying instantly. I see people using siege now just about as frequent as they were used in pre 1.6. So we still have the "street fights" w.e that means. They tried to force changes like blobbing without thinking about cyrodiils main objectives taking keeps and outposts. As long as cyrodiils only objectives are keeps and outposts you will have zergs and blobs. Same thing with the whole new direction of spreading people out... How the hell do you do that? Theres only one place to go w.e keep your faction is trying to take next. CMON NOW.
  • Jitterbug
    Jitterbug
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    krim wrote: »
    5. ZOS give us some bgs or a system restore 1.5

    yes, please
  • Iyas
    Iyas
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    Jitterbug wrote: »
    krim wrote: »
    5. ZOS give us some bgs or a system restore 1.5

    yes, please

    This but without lag pls
    Noricum/ Kitesquad/ PC/EU

    Kitesquad Vol. 1

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=6tGxK9KRrEI
  • MisterBigglesworth
    MisterBigglesworth
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    krim wrote: »
    A skill is not going to do anything to a zerg of players spamming heals and purges. We need certain mechanics to change

    What mechanics would those be, exactly? You basically need to disincentive the use of AOE since it seems the be the primary cause of lag. So you could reduce all AOE damage by 90% within Cyrodiil. Even so you would simply then have a 50-man zerg single targeting down a smaller group of enemies instead of AOEing them down.

    Therefore you would have to limit how many players can be in a given area of the map at any one time... that doesn't work in an open world setting where players are free to go wherever they want. One possible way of doing this would be to severely lower population caps for each campaign. Another possible way of doing this would be to somehow instance different regions of the map, or to scrap seige warfare altogether and repurpose the Keeps as instanced battlegrounds with their own queues and very small population caps. All of this flies in the face of the concept of AvA gameplay, of course, but there you have it.

    Long story short: just fix the lag.
    Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.
  • AhPook_Is_Here
    AhPook_Is_Here
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    If you want to end stacking Warhammer really had a good fix for that. Other than long range targeted aoes, friendly and hostile collision prevented stacking mechanics from being overly effective. Adding collision in this game would likely just lower the number of players it took to hit the lag threshold (load the server more), but would address the ability to make pristine Venn diagrams of death and healing. I don't know if the trade-off would be worth it, but if they introduce another smaller venue, it would be a great place to test it.
    “Whatever.”
    -Unknown American
  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    First, lets clear this up...

    There is a difference between Zerging and Blobbing

    DAOC had Zerging, and it had zergs in that game that'd be make this game look silly, We're talking 200+ all following one Target

    These zergs were slow and generally pray to fast striking 8 mans that could instant kill large portions of it..You could hit the zergs in this game with 8, but to many players in certain guilds think you need 24 because they think its not zerging...We use to be able to shame these types of players into actually being good, and no relying on numbers...But you can't do that without being banned on these forums

    Now Blobbing is a whole different thing, This is where everyone is hugging each other as much as possible...AOE caps being removed has helped somewhat with this but there is a problem... You see when they removing the caps they intentionally left the cap on Heals because they wanted AOE damage to be a problem....However at the same time they left the caps off an instant cheap aoe hot that heals for a crapload that they just added...I love Vigor....I use Vigor on my DK, it however needs a 6 person cap like every single Heal in this game....Same with Barrier...That's a form of "Healing" in this game, Basically a preheal..It also needs a cap.

    Now those aren't the only two things you can do, That'd effect the durability of those groups, but you could also go back and Make Oil Catapult non purgable like before...and make Meat Bag catapult stronger.

    There was a time when AOE caps were in place where you actually had zerg balls stop for a bit, because people were throwing down Oil Catapults and pelting the zerg with it a long with Multiple Meat Bags, this basically made these guys move incredibly slow while having their healing reduced.

    They were still powerful in areas where you couldn't throw these down, but in open field...They were getting crushed.

  • SC0TY999
    SC0TY999
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    A certain player was posting on the forums right at the beginning, stating that what we're all experiencing now was what would come out of ZOS introducing the AOE cap!

    ZOS please remove the AOE cap entirely!

    Oh the days when 1 DK could talons a whole group, making a zerg split to all corners of the map!

    Then the AOE cap was introduced and I encountered the very first blob in ESO and it was like, WTF!
  • Dreyloch
    Dreyloch
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    krim wrote: »
    tPCYxcS.png

    It's brilliant because it does more and more damage the more people it hits! If 24 people are stacked, for example, the last person infected by it will take the initial damage... X24!!!

    ZOS, put something similar in the game (a deployable Dwemer construct that shoots out chained lightning, for example) and people will be very reluctant to all stack up together all the time.

    A skill is not going to do anything to a zerg of players spamming heals and purges. We need certain mechanics to change again(revert) not adding skills that are just band aid fixes that dont promote any type of skill play. Oh hey theres a huge group let me cast this spell. This is a game that promoted large scale battles but here we are in 1.6 still crying about blobs. At this point rightfully so, because there is no way to combat a zerg without a zerg. But some people dont find it fun to follow 23 or more people around just literally mowing people down not knowing for sure if they ever even did anything to contribute.

    Does this guy even play his own game? What is he even talking about? Stick to the herd or die? Feels a lot more like that now. Notice how he says fighting at the bridge.. Hes probably in one of my groups bridge videos getting rekt. Start it at 31:29 seconds

    I have that face on my dartboard. Almost threw one on instinct and realized it was my comp =/

    I'm taking a break from ESO in general. Pop. imbalance is just NOT fun anymore. PvP is just NOT fun anymore. Lag is just NOT fun anymore. It's seriously strained my friendship with guildmates because it's so fustrating. Then to read nothing will be done till console release is over? Heh, last straw. Beautiful looking game, but it's gone to absolute crap.....and Noes! You can't haz my stuffz! (before some joker says it)
    "The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"
  • cozmon3c_ESO
    cozmon3c_ESO
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    Dreyloch wrote: »
    krim wrote: »
    tPCYxcS.png

    It's brilliant because it does more and more damage the more people it hits! If 24 people are stacked, for example, the last person infected by it will take the initial damage... X24!!!

    ZOS, put something similar in the game (a deployable Dwemer construct that shoots out chained lightning, for example) and people will be very reluctant to all stack up together all the time.

    A skill is not going to do anything to a zerg of players spamming heals and purges. We need certain mechanics to change again(revert) not adding skills that are just band aid fixes that dont promote any type of skill play. Oh hey theres a huge group let me cast this spell. This is a game that promoted large scale battles but here we are in 1.6 still crying about blobs. At this point rightfully so, because there is no way to combat a zerg without a zerg. But some people dont find it fun to follow 23 or more people around just literally mowing people down not knowing for sure if they ever even did anything to contribute.

    Does this guy even play his own game? What is he even talking about? Stick to the herd or die? Feels a lot more like that now. Notice how he says fighting at the bridge.. Hes probably in one of my groups bridge videos getting rekt. Start it at 31:29 seconds

    I have that face on my dartboard. Almost threw one on instinct and realized it was my comp =/

    I'm taking a break from ESO in general. Pop. imbalance is just NOT fun anymore. PvP is just NOT fun anymore. Lag is just NOT fun anymore. It's seriously strained my friendship with guildmates because it's so fustrating. Then to read nothing will be done till console release is over? Heh, last straw. Beautiful looking game, but it's gone to absolute crap.....and Noes! You can't haz my stuffz! (before some joker says it)

    can i have your stuff
    Guild UMBRA Chapter Lead
    ~Leper Si -V14 Sorcerer~
    Youtube Channel - Leper
    https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCozmon3c/videos
  • krim
    krim
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    Guys, as a community, you really need to stop buying into the hype that zergs is causing the lag. This was ZOS's lame attempt to cover that they couldnt figure it out. Its like when the world used to here that the earth is flat so you cant travel to far out in the ocean you will fall off it. Look at my sig, my machine pushes through most of this lag, I never drop below 30 fps. I can see whats happening, and trust me it isnt the stacking. I have seen stacks of near 200 (3 way) not lag recently and I see stacks of 48 (2x24) lag all the time.

    Recently we walked ZOS through the lag and they were quite amazed at what we presented.

    I also requested that Wheeler provide information about what was too many people stacking in a post awhile back, so we could help formulate testing. That info never came, which also tells me that its not valid because they threw a dart at the board for what is happening.

    So get off 'zergs kill this game' please and start addressing what is the real issues.

    Lags been around since forever in this game. Im interested in what you presented to ZOS. But generally you have a large influx of players and you get lag. Instinctively you assume oh lots of zergs = lag. Now with the recent changes of 1.6 making it even more zerg friendly its easier to point the blame on them. Honestly i could care less about the lag at this point because we have been dealing with it from the start. Its like oh its lagging now well thats normal, and my machine never drops below 30fps either. But i agree the real issue is these changes that have really hurt the diversity of character builds and play style.
  • cozmon3c_ESO
    cozmon3c_ESO
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    Damn i dont know how much more of this lag i can take, you may not see me on at prime time anymore, i barely die before primetime and then the lag hits and i cant cc break, weapon swap, bolt escape, survive.........
    Guild UMBRA Chapter Lead
    ~Leper Si -V14 Sorcerer~
    Youtube Channel - Leper
    https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCozmon3c/videos
  • maryriv
    maryriv
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    Armethius wrote: »
    im starting this thread because we all know money rules the world. ZOS wants to make money, by getting more subscribers, and more paid subscribers. I think they will lose subscribers if they don't fix the power of a 24 player zerg.

    i am an avid fan of elder scrolls games, and I love cyrodil, however, playing tonight was unbearable. there is no way to take down the group of 24 red zerglings that was farming in between alessia and sej tonight. they are invincible.

    i am also not sure how to fix it, i have ideas, but I'm sure ZOS has thought of them all. Make siege even more powerful, make each class have an aoe skill that gains power when it hits more enemies; decrease group sizes... those are the few i have thought of.

    we obviously want massive 40 on 40 battles, but i don't think any of us want 40 on a blob of zerging invincible enemies.

    PLEASE GINA, PLEASE ZOS, PLEASE fix this somehow, especially before it comes to consoles. WE ALL WANT A LARGER MORE HAPPY SUBSCRIBER BASE. All the newbies are getting killed, and quitting the way the game is now...

    thanks,
    Armethius

    Making siege a little better went a little ways towards helping, but if they know how to get out of red circles then that's no help.

    Also with 24 people you just dedicate 4 people to spamming Efficient purge over and over again which neutralizes every crowd buster in the game.

    Maybe an assault ability that does more damage to everyone in the same proximity based on the number of people IN that proximity? THAT would be fun :)
  • nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO
    nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO
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    Just have a nuke that does 5k base damage x number of people within 10 yards to everyone within those 10 yards in the assault tree.

    That means the second people form a blop they die instantly. Only way to win would be to spread out.
  • maryriv
    maryriv
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    Armethius wrote: »
    im starting this thread because we all know money rules the world. ZOS wants to make money, by getting more subscribers, and more paid subscribers. I think they will lose subscribers if they don't fix the power of a 24 player zerg.

    i am an avid fan of elder scrolls games, and I love cyrodil, however, playing tonight was unbearable. there is no way to take down the group of 24 red zerglings that was farming in between alessia and sej tonight. they are invincible.

    i am also not sure how to fix it, i have ideas, but I'm sure ZOS has thought of them all. Make siege even more powerful, make each class have an aoe skill that gains power when it hits more enemies; decrease group sizes... those are the few i have thought of.

    we obviously want massive 40 on 40 battles, but i don't think any of us want 40 on a blob of zerging invincible enemies.

    PLEASE GINA, PLEASE ZOS, PLEASE fix this somehow, especially before it comes to consoles. WE ALL WANT A LARGER MORE HAPPY SUBSCRIBER BASE. All the newbies are getting killed, and quitting the way the game is now...

    thanks,
    Armethius

    Ad collision detection on friendlies.

    Cause AOE dmg to do dmg to friendlies :)

    More practical ones are the ones you mentioned of course, limit group size further and increase siege damage further, as it is people are still standing in red and just getting purged.
  • Teargrants
    Teargrants
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    Damn i dont know how much more of this lag i can take, you may not see me on at prime time anymore, i barely die before primetime and then the lag hits and i cant cc break, weapon swap, bolt escape, survive.........
    Respec stam build, start barrel rolling everywhere. Remember, dodge roll still works in the lag!
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