Summary of the XP problems not being addressed

daswahnsinn

Vincire wrote: »

I've just started the Vet grind and ... it sucks. The game immediately takes a dramatic shift from a very fun and rewarding experience in terms of character progression to one that feels very slow and boring while also recycling content. Quite frankly, I am surprised that ZOS refuses to even comment on the situation and I am quickly losing interest in the game unfortunately. I realize that they're planning to do away with vet levels all together but allowing the current situation to languish without even a single comment isn't a good short term solution.

They should do away with Vet ranks before the console release. Too many players will feel jilted when the final reach Vr14 then have it taken away when they didn't have the time to enjoy the fun. But to be honest they probably won't and let the grind go until next but then I feel that this game will be to far gone to repair.

Zheg wrote: »

This will be the last alt I ever level through vet ranks, even if they sit on their hands and don't remove them for another 5+ months. The XP is absolute garbage right now. Besides the fact that the sub doesn't really do much for you, I certainly don't plan on renewing mine, and I've had one since launch. Frankly, I don't feel like they deserve my money right now.

I wouldn't care if they fix it in the next 5 months. I won't be playing. This is something that they should have fixed months ago after they said they're getting rid on vet ranks. They can't fix PVP and now the FPS drop and all around lagginess has moved to PVE. I have a great gaming PC and this is the only game that really sucks FPS wise. We need new zones and better XP gain, smooth running PVP, all around better game. I think they bit off more than what they could chew.

Zheg

Of the few posts I've seen from devs on anything related to XP, I wonder if they're actually unaware, but here are pretty rough average XP per hour based on your activity:

Grinding - 420k XP/hour
Questing - 120k XP/hour
PVP - 75k XP/hour

Now, grinding can drop precipitously if there are 4 sorcs buzzing around all of the grind spots (which usually happens during prime time). Questing is pretty stable at between 100k-130k for me, unless you're questing in craglorn and then it's much lower. PVP fluctuates a lot (but I've never had it break 100k), and the XP drops even further if you've already used up all of your kill quests.

Why can't questing and pvp be brought up to the same relative XP/hour rate as grinding? What is so difficult about that? To the devs, would you like for me to recommend an XP/hour tracking add-on? PVP might be slightly harder to buff, but there's no reason why questing XP shouldn't be easy to bump up.

I just dinged v14 on my temp alt after caving and deciding to grind lions, so to the rest of you, best of luck. To the devs, even if you end up fixing this on Monday's patch (doubtful...), you have a long way to go towards fixing relations with your playerbase on this issue. But by all means, ignore the nonstop complaints for another 2 months.

Ley

Zheg wrote: »

Of the few posts I've seen from devs on anything related to XP, I wonder if they're actually unaware, but here are pretty rough average XP per hour based on your activity:

Grinding - 420k XP/hour
Questing - 120k XP/hour
PVP - 75k XP/hour

Now, grinding can drop precipitously if there are 4 sorcs buzzing around all of the grind spots (which usually happens during prime time). Questing is pretty stable at between 100k-130k for me, unless you're questing in craglorn and then it's much lower. PVP fluctuates a lot, and the XP drops even further if you've already used up all of your kill quests.

Why can't questing and pvp be brought up to the same relative XP/hour rate as grinding? What is so difficult about that? To the devs, would you like for me to recommend an XP/hour tracking add-on? PVP might be slightly harder to buff, but there's no reason why questing XP shouldn't be easy to bump up.

I just dinged v14 on my temp alt after caving and deciding to grind lions, so to the rest of you, best of luck. To the devs, even if you end up fixing this on Monday's patch (doubtful...), you have a long way to go towards fixing relations with your playerbase on this issue. But by all means, ignore the nonstop complaints for another 2 months.

I don't expect all exp to be brought in line with grinding but it would be nice of they reduced the gaps. It would be nice to be gaining half the exp I do grinding, when questing and half of that again for pvp.

Have it look a bit more like this..

Grinding - 400k-600k / hour
Questing - 200k-300k / hour
PvP - 100k-150k / hour

Zheg

Ley wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Of the few posts I've seen from devs on anything related to XP, I wonder if they're actually unaware, but here are pretty rough average XP per hour based on your activity:

Grinding - 420k XP/hour
Questing - 120k XP/hour
PVP - 75k XP/hour

Now, grinding can drop precipitously if there are 4 sorcs buzzing around all of the grind spots (which usually happens during prime time). Questing is pretty stable at between 100k-130k for me, unless you're questing in craglorn and then it's much lower. PVP fluctuates a lot, and the XP drops even further if you've already used up all of your kill quests.

Why can't questing and pvp be brought up to the same relative XP/hour rate as grinding? What is so difficult about that? To the devs, would you like for me to recommend an XP/hour tracking add-on? PVP might be slightly harder to buff, but there's no reason why questing XP shouldn't be easy to bump up.

I just dinged v14 on my temp alt after caving and deciding to grind lions, so to the rest of you, best of luck. To the devs, even if you end up fixing this on Monday's patch (doubtful...), you have a long way to go towards fixing relations with your playerbase on this issue. But by all means, ignore the nonstop complaints for another 2 months.

I don't expect all exp to be brought in line with grinding but it would be nice of they reduced the gaps. It would be nice to be gaining half the exp I do grinding, when questing and half of that again for pvp.

Have it look a bit more like this..

Grinding - 400k-600k / hour
Questing - 200k-300k / hour
PvP - 100k-150k / hour

That's still a really wide gap that significantly disadvantages pvp. Remember, with the champion system, anyone that consistently gets lower XP is going to be underperforming in the long run. Someone that quests/grinds all day long for a year will have a noticeable advantage in pvp over someone that spends a year in cyrodiil - and that seems counter-intuitive.

Ley

Zheg wrote: »

That's still a really wide gap that significantly disadvantages pvp. Remember, with the champion system, anyone that consistently gets lower XP is going to be underperforming in the long run. Someone that quests/grinds all day long for a year will have a noticeable advantage in pvp over someone that spends a year in cyrodiil - and that seems counter-intuitive.

You also have to take other rewards gained from these activities into consideration.

Grinding = exp + gold
Questing = exp + gold + achievements/dyes + skill points
PvP = exp + gold + achievements/dyes + skill points + alliance points + alliance rank

I may have overlooked some factors but those seem like some of the big ones.

It seems fitting that you gain less exp from questing or PvP, compared to grinding, because you have other incentives to participate in these activities other than exp and gold. I'm not saying my suggested numbers were perfect, I do think there should be a decent gap, just not as big of a gap as there currently is.

C0pp3rhead

A dev posted the following on a thread discussing the fixing of the FG crab grind:
forums.elderscrollsonlinLink to the following quote

ZOS_ArtG wrote: »

We recognize that there are grinding spots in the game, and we don't have a problem with those who choose to grind to level up. That said, there have been areas that offer significantly more experience than was worth through weak mob kills and exploits, to the extent that other leveling strategies become moot. We just want to ensure that each leveling strategy remains as valid as the other. In order to continue making improvements to our game, it's important that we get the details from you regarding why you like or dislike something so do not hesitate to provide us with constructive feedback!

Yes, the FG crab grind was an exploit, and functioned similarly to the scorpion grind. Myself and many other players were surprised to see a Dev commenting at all. What really galled me was the line about, "[W]e don't have a problem with those who choose to grind to level up," followed by, "We just want to ensure that each leveling strategy remains as valid as the other.' How they can say this while nerfing Craglorn xp is beyond me. Meanwhile, they raise the xp of Cyrodiil delves in a poorly executed band-aid fix meant to artificially lower the level caps on populated servers. (More players in delves means fewer people pvp-ing/participating in battles/burdening the servers.) Moreover, they have done very little to ensure that questing is as rewarding as grinding. You would think that non-repeatable, time-consuming content would be worth more than the few thousand xp I receive per quest turn-in.

Well, @ZOS_ArtG, this post is filled with constructive criticism. You could nip these in the bud here by answering the following questions:

1. Can you confirm that VR levels will be removed in the future? If so, when?
2. What is being done to address player concerns and dissatisfaction with veteran character advancement?

Lylith

Yinmaigao wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

But the XP nerfs were put in place to keep people from getting too far ahead in CP too easily. Yes, it may affect VR progression (though I'm not convinced, since my V4 is still in the first zone of Silver, and my V6 just finished that zone), but that's not the reason they were put in place.

I just gotta ask... how the heck are people doing this?? V6 in the first zone? I did EVERY single quest/dolmen/delve (did most, but not all public dungeons) in every Silver/Gold and BARELY hit V11 when I finished Cadwell's Gold.

I didn't skip trash between quest objectives either.

That leaves me at... what do I do now to hit V14? PvP doesn't entice me, and I am in that zone that noone wants to take to vet dungeons. Tried Craglorn, but at 2K xp per "event" it is not worth it compared to grinding.

kill everything. everywhere. all the time. explore everything. this game has an abundance of chests and each chest give you exp.

don't travel on roads, don't ride your mount unless you're in a hurry, same goes for teleportation.

dolmen blasting, wb up? go kill it or help kill it. come up again while you're in the area? up to you...personally, i'd run it again.

haven't done all, or fully completed, the public dungeons or groups? do them. do them again. do them faster.

i usually come out of the first zone at v6 or (more often) v7 (silver). the last time i reachd v14, i still had a few sidequests i hadn't completed in the last zone and some bits of dungeons i didn't 100 percent complete.

Lylith

despite my comments above, let me indicate that i agree 110 percent with the very valid points being made in the inital post by the op.

exp rewards seem quite capricious as to how many will be rewarded for a specific task and enlightenment appears to require some truly obscure and eldritch mathematical rituals to be in force long enough to generate any perceivable benefit.

Julianos

If removing vet ranks is too complicated for them at least they can give us an item that inreases xp gain for example :%100 after cadwell's gold completed(instead of crappy vet 10 blue necklace). It would be awsome for leveling alts and its very easy to do it. This game disappointed me a lot since the begining i felt stupid for all the money and time i spent and stopped subing. This game only has good graphics nothing more the rest full of bugs flawed mechanics unsatisfying PVE content lagy/low performance PVP and almost no costumer support and very slow development. Even we dont have hair dresser npc in game its a Mmorpg! I can find lots of things like that but i dont care anymore its free to play now. Maybe my sound is harsh but these are the facts and i was very patient.

G0ku

Finishing the mainquestline of the first vet-area (stonefalls for me), 2 worldbosses, 2 normal dungeons and 2 vet dungeon (2 normal and 1 vet dungeon with undaunted pledge) and 2 days of pvp including collecting skyshards took me from level 46 to vr2 with now 350k xp towards to V3.

So much to give an impression on xp gain. I´m not too bothered of the fact when I reach endlevel so use the numbers I given as you please.

What I don´t agree on is that

- cyrodiil gets you not enough XP in general
- you stand no chance in pvp as a VR1

I guess it comes down to classes and experience. IMO if you pick your fights clever you can have a whole lot of XP in cyrodiil. On my way to battles and skyshards alike I took every quest I found. Most times it´s just deliver X to Y and that´s it and grants 11k XP for vet level. On the way to the quest hub you can surprise enemy players and gain more xp.

I wrecked V14 players with my V1 mage (hell sorc is fun why didn´t I play one earlier) and I got busted by players some levels below me.

Questing a complete vet-area should grant you the vet-level if you do really all things that are there including dungeons/public dungeons. The VR9 and VR10 areas should bring you to at least VR12 imo so that craglorn (including AA, Hel-RA) should take you close to VR14. Would be reasonable...

Also, I would like to see an XP-boost for people who are leveling their first char, so that they can catch up to other players.

Charadras

I think the better and fast way to make all happy is to reduce the exp needed in vr. For example if i need 300k from 49 to vr 1, the exp i need to became vr2 from vr1 Will be 350k. Then 400k and same until vr 14. So you become vr 14 faster and if you want to continue silver and Gold quest it's only Your chose to take skyshard, achi and cp.

KontrolledKhaos

Could not agree more. I really hope ZOS fired whichever employee came up with the vet system to begin with. Seriously, whoever came up with such a short-sighted and atrocious system has no business working in the game industry. Same goes for whoever nerfed the XP in Craglorn.

Zheg

G0ku wrote: »

Finishing the mainquestline of the first vet-area (stonefalls for me), 2 worldbosses, 2 normal dungeons and 2 vet dungeon (2 normal and 1 vet dungeon with undaunted pledge) and 2 days of pvp including collecting skyshards took me from level 46 to vr2 with now 350k xp towards to V3.

So much to give an impression on xp gain. I´m not too bothered of the fact when I reach endlevel so use the numbers I given as you please.

What I don´t agree on is that

- cyrodiil gets you not enough XP in general
- you stand no chance in pvp as a VR1

I guess it comes down to classes and experience. IMO if you pick your fights clever you can have a whole lot of XP in cyrodiil. On my way to battles and skyshards alike I took every quest I found. Most times it´s just deliver X to Y and that´s it and grants 11k XP for vet level. On the way to the quest hub you can surprise enemy players and gain more xp.

I wrecked V14 players with my V1 mage (hell sorc is fun why didn´t I play one earlier) and I got busted by players some levels below me.

Questing a complete vet-area should grant you the vet-level if you do really all things that are there including dungeons/public dungeons. The VR9 and VR10 areas should bring you to at least VR12 imo so that craglorn (including AA, Hel-RA) should take you close to VR14. Would be reasonable...

Also, I would like to see an XP-boost for people who are leveling their first char, so that they can catch up to other players.

While I only have my numbers to compare xp/hour in pvp vs. questing or grinding, the fact that you get noticeably less xp in pvp than you do doing the other activities is echoed by pretty much everyone I've talked to. If you don't have an add-on to track it, I'd recommend trying one out so you can see the difference. I pvp almost every day so it's not like I'm going off one bad night or something - I get less XP whether I'm solo ganking, in small groups, or in large groups.

There are some of my guildies that are choosing the level in pvp because they understandably find questing and grinding boring after a point. It takes them many many weeks longer than someone who grinded, and while they can still be successful in terms of killing people, it's not difficult to pick up on the frustration in their voice when someone kills them and they probably would have won had they been in v14 gear that's upgraded to epic/legendary (or the frustration from having played the game so much and still being halfway through the vet ranks). With the way stats work now it makes a HUGE difference, and arguing that point is just being silly.

G0ku

Zheg wrote: »

With the way stats work now it makes a HUGE difference, and arguing that point is just being silly.

It works that way if players with even skill clash onto each other. In many cases the fight is decided by the skill of the player behind the screen and not by numbers. And in most cases a fight is decided by the fact that other players will join the fight.