Better looking armor?

PKMN12

Mumnoch wrote: »

I still believe having a developer whip up a quick tool to unpack and repack texture files and releasing it to the modder's is the best solution and quickest solution to keep everyone happy. @zenimax_nagahashi @zenimaxeb17_ESO

except, of course, anyone who actually wants PVP to be anything other than a rainbow-based joke.

MercyKilling

PKMN12 wrote: »

except, of course, anyone who actually wants PVP to be anything other than a rainbow-based joke.

Given the current dye colors I've been seeing out in the PvE world, it already is.

And you don't seem to understand the concept of not seeing the mods that one person has installed UNLESS YOU ALSO HAVE THOSE MODS INSTALLED.

Seriously, mods are personal, not universal. I do not have ANY UI mods installed whatsoever, so I do not see what mods you are using. There's no minimap on my screen. No damage numbers ticking off. No "PURGE NOW" notifications popping up.

Because I don't have those mods installed.

Sneaking also doesn't work like that. The color of your armor has absolutely no effect on whether or not the hidden state applies, otherwise all these armors that are currently dyed would show up. Hells, ANYTHING that is dyed would show up if color affected the sneaking mechanics.

Mumnoch

PKMN12 wrote: »

Mumnoch wrote: »

I still believe having a developer whip up a quick tool to unpack and repack texture files and releasing it to the modder's is the best solution and quickest solution to keep everyone happy. @zenimax_nagahashi @zenimaxeb17_ESO

except, of course, anyone who actually wants PVP to be anything other than a rainbow-based joke.

You do realize that texture files are client side right? IE the only way you will see "rainbow-based joke" is if you have a mod installed that creates those rainbow-themed colors.

Not even mentioning the fact that with the current dye system someone can paint themselves to be rainbow themed and force you to look at it...

Cheveyo

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Cheveyo wrote: »

Magic is a thing in the ESO universe. You realize that, right?
-snip-
But you can't wrap your head around skimpy clothing?

Yes, magic is indeed a thing. But that doesn't mean its every thing. Now, trell me again... which of the magical abilities we have in Tamriel can make skimpy clothes provide extra protection again? Vestige status? Oh, no, wait, that's just for our respawns. Fiery chains? Nope, doesn't look like it. Occasional furryness? Maybe good for a cold wind, but otherwise... not too likely. Shooting balls of fire from your eyes and bolts of lightning from your ar... uhm... no, wait, that was a braveheart quote, wasn't it?

Dragon Knight abilities:

• Spiked Armor - magic armor that also reduces spell damage. Has damage shield morph as well.
• Dragon Blood - heal damage done, so if I get an arrow to the boob, it'll heal.
• Reflective Scale - Reflects projectiles. Has spell resist morph.
• Stone Fist has an armor morph. So even naked, you'll get magic armor.
• Obsidian Shield - damage shield to absorb damage.

Sorcerer abilities:

• Bound Armor - speaks for itself.
• Conjured Ward - damage absorb.
• Lightning Form - magic armor.

Nightblade abilities:

• Blur - dodge bonus. Armor is irrelevant if you don't get hit.

Templar abilities:

• Sun Shield
• Rune Focus - free armor

This is not counting guild/world abilites and things like that.

It's amazing what magic can do, isn't it.

I am saying, the system should make sense within its own logic. And not just do whatever "because magic". In game systems where there are rings and bracers that provide "mystical protection", I have no problem with chainmail bikinis doing the same. But TES games never were D&D games where you could find Rings of Protection and Bracers AC-0... so why should the effect now suddenly appear?

If you want skimpyness with magical protection, you can always go in your underwear and spam sorceror/templar shields, right? See how far that gets you...

And again, I'm not saying we shouldn't get skimpy clothes too in ESO. I am just saying they shouldn't count as -armor- Keep the battlefield folk looking like warriors, and let people wear whatever in town, match function to form when it comes to attire, that's my word.

Why are you so against people having an option to look how they want to look?

Nobody is going to force YOU to wear this stuff. So why does it matter?

PKMN12

Mumnoch wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

Mumnoch wrote: »

I still believe having a developer whip up a quick tool to unpack and repack texture files and releasing it to the modder's is the best solution and quickest solution to keep everyone happy. @zenimax_nagahashi @zenimaxeb17_ESO

except, of course, anyone who actually wants PVP to be anything other than a rainbow-based joke.

You do realize that texture files are client side right? IE the only way you will see "rainbow-based joke" is if you have a mod installed that creates those rainbow-themed colors.

Not even mentioning the fact that with the current dye system someone can paint themselves to be rainbow themed and force you to look at it...

I would point how abused it can be, but i know you will not care or listen.

golfer.dub17_ESO

Why are you so against people having an option to look how they want to look?

Nobody is going to force YOU to wear this stuff. So why does it matter?

He didn't say he was? He just said it shouldn't function as well as proper armor.

Personally, I don't care what client-side nonsense people mod in as long as I don't have to see it.

Wearing it is irrelevant to that point.

I would point how abused it can be, but i know you will not care or listen.

I remember TF2 disabled things similar to this because people would delete specific textures in order to see through walls.

Cheveyo

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

Why are you so against people having an option to look how they want to look?

Nobody is going to force YOU to wear this stuff. So why does it matter?

He didn't say he was? He just said it shouldn't function as well as proper armor.

So why would current cloth armor work better?

I would point how abused it can be, but i know you will not care or listen.

I remember TF2 disabled things similar to this because people would delete specific textures in order to see through walls.

I knew a guy who made it so they hit boxes were always visible. It allowed him to get headshots easily as a spy, since he didn't have to guess where the head was.

Cathrin

MercyKilling wrote: »

For everyone's viewing pleasure:




For the record, this isn't what I'm asking for. But, to include everyone, I'm not excluding this option.

Sadly this is what many people that are against this see as more feminine armor.

While I believe most asking for that kind of armor think of this:

MercyKilling

Hit boxes and walls are not armor.

Zenimax allowed modding to the UI by allowing only mods to show PERSONAL numbers, not the numbers/stats of someone else.....if they were able to exclude enemy stats from the UI mods, don't you think they could release only the COSMETIC part of armor and weapons?

Otherwise, people would be using mods to show enemy health, stamina, majika, what abilities they had slotted, when the enemy buffs were wearing off.....you get the picture, I hope.

PKMN12

MercyKilling wrote: »

Hit boxes and walls are not armor.

Zenimax allowed modding to the UI by allowing only mods to show PERSONAL numbers, not the numbers/stats of someone else.....if they were able to exclude enemy stats from the UI mods, don't you think they could release only the COSMETIC part of armor and weapons?

Otherwise, people would be using mods to show enemy health, stamina, majika, what abilities they had slotted, when the enemy buffs were wearing off.....you get the picture, I hope.

That would be a lot harder, coding is strange that way.

Cheveyo

Cathrin wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

For everyone's viewing pleasure:




For the record, this isn't what I'm asking for. But, to include everyone, I'm not excluding this option.

Sadly this is what many people that are against this see as more feminine armor.

While I believe most asking for that kind of armor think of this:

Yes, that's good.

TheShadowScout

Cheveyo wrote: »

-snip-
It's amazing what magic can do, isn't it.

So? Like mentioned, wear civilian clothes, spam those abilities, see how you fare. Nothing in your list that can be easily enchanted on a set of clothing, and if there were, it could be enchanted just as easily on a set or armor for even better effect. Since our enchanted armors don't have it... why should enchanted underwear?

Cheveyo wrote: »

Why are you so against people having an option to look how they want to look?

Nobody is going to force YOU to wear this stuff. So why does it matter?

I say again, I have no problem at all with -clothes- that look whatever. I would gladly wear those when the situation called for it. And I would love to see the "civilian clothes" system we now have a peek at expanded with a great many more styles, including all sorts of skimpy ones; and not only have those things available through stealing, but also for purchase from any tailor, and/or craftable by clothiers.

I do find it somewhat aggrivating when people want the effects of full plate with the visuals of a harem dancer, and then start claiming "magic" to justify it... and I like very much that WSO has not gone down that route.

I just want to keep our "You get what you look like" relation between armor value and visuals, that's all. And then let people decide if their visuals are worth the lower protection.

PKMN12

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Cheveyo wrote: »

-snip-
It's amazing what magic can do, isn't it.

So? Like mentioned, wear civilian clothes, spam those abilities, see how you fare. Nothing in your list that can be easily enchanted on a set of clothing, and if there were, it could be enchanted just as easily on a set or armor for even better effect. Since our enchanted armors don't have it... why should enchanted underwear?

Cheveyo wrote: »

Why are you so against people having an option to look how they want to look?

Nobody is going to force YOU to wear this stuff. So why does it matter?

I say again, I have no problem at all with -clothes- that look whatever. I would gladly wear those when the situation called for it. And I would love to see the "civilian clothes" system we now have a peek at expanded with a great many more styles, including all sorts of skimpy ones; and not only have those things available through stealing, but also for purchase from any tailor, and/or craftable by clothiers.

I do find it somewhat aggrivating when people want the effects of full plate with the visuals of a harem dancer, and then start claiming "magic" to justify it... and I like very much that WSO has not gone down that route.

I just want to keep our "You get what you look like" relation between armor value and visuals, that's all. And then let people decide if their visuals are worth the lower protection.

Oblivion has armor enchants, worked just as well as armor did.

MornaBaine

I don't know how I feel about modded armors. So much of that stuff is just hideous and poorly done, way more than the few pieces that look really good. There's also the overall aesthetic of the game to consider. I'm already not too happy with some of the leaked images of the costumes they'll be be putting in the Crown Shop. They're pretty but they look like 1700's real world wear. They look NOTHING like what we see already in the game. Any new gear in the game, even if it is skimpier or more revealing, needs to be designed with the existing aesthetic in mind. it's one thing to mod out your own game and make it look however you want but in an MMO everything you do is seen by everyone else. The Orc dude in the wedding dresses were pretty funny the first couple days. Now I just kind of wish they'd all go away. So yeah, it's your character but I still gotta see it. LOL

CreepySpydre

My concern is the culture style of the armour in ESO is very .... well the same. Take away the detail and just look at the basic frame its all Northern European style. Now, do not get me wrong the art as the armour stands now is well done. But makes no sense, (except the Nords, and High Elves); all one has to do is look at the armour worn by the armies of Nubia, Ancient Egypt, Greece, Rome, Babylon, etc. etc. being male only military even then, a fair amount of skin is showing, only more skin covered the more north you go. There is no kilts, short skirts, shorts, which is completely wrong, in fact some armour had no pants, long sleeveless tunic, going 1/2 way down the thighs with armour tassels protecting the legs from the belt. Now that is male only military, you have to keep in mind that females are active in military arts on Nirn, and the armour would have to be fashioned also on female biology. After biology, there is environment, and the armour would be fashion around it.

MercyKilling

The idea that what you mod is seen by everyone else when playing an MMO is completely false, otherwise there would be absolutely no nude mods for any MMO.

Yet, google search provides dozens of results when searching for that category in many MMO's out now. Neverwinter. Champions Online. Star Trek Online. SWTOR. LotR. City of Heroes had one. FF has them. TERA has them. RIFT has them. WoW has them.

Cosmetic mods are personal, customer side only. Just like you were playing a single player version of an MMO. They only affect what YOU see on YOUR screen.


Please stop trying to spread this false information.

eNumbra

PKMN12 wrote: »

Oblivion has armor enchants, worked just as well as armor did.

Oblivion was also single player and lacked any real balance between magical and physical abilities.

When this game was released its was a lot like oblivion in fact, everyone wore cloth and magicka was king. It was awful.

It's fine if Zenimax adds some more feminine armor or changes some of the existing armors. Player made mods in multiplayer games will always invite abuse - there are those on this forum who have argued in the past that all add-ons are cheating.

Mumnoch

eNumbra wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

Oblivion has armor enchants, worked just as well as armor did.

Oblivion was also single player and lacked any real balance between magical and physical abilities.

When this game was released its was a lot like oblivion in fact, everyone wore cloth and magicka was king. It was awful.

It's fine if Zenimax adds some more feminine armor or changes some of the existing armors. Player made mods in multiplayer games will always invite abuse - there are those on this forum who have argued in the past that all add-ons are cheating.

Not any of you against Zenimax releasing a tool that unpacks and repacks armor textures has listed 1 viable reason to not have them. You have listed valid reason's why we shouldn't be allowed to redo wall textures and also hit box textures (oh wait, we're not a FPS so this doesn't apply).

As such let's stay on target please with my OP being reference on how to argue for or against ending ESO's lore breaking departure of prudish armor's in the TES universe.

Current armor's for female avatars are garbage, so far I've seen agreements, false statements, or "I just don't like seeing female skin" comments.

eNumbra

Mumnoch wrote: »

"I just don't like seeing female skin" comments.

You're not the first person to assert seeing this, why don't you quote it.

Mumnoch wrote: »

Not any of you against Zenimax releasing a tool that unpacks and repacks armor textures has listed 1 viable reason to not have them

Even if there is no valid reason to prevent them doing it, doesn't mean there's a valid reason to do it.

Tapio75

As eith better looking..

I would start by redoing all armors as real pieces of armor that are not simply painted on the skin. If Korean MMO like Aion can do it, so can ESO. They need to upgrade server capacities anyway to get rid of lag at some point so why not add an extra kick to get real armors, these painted armors are a bit awkward at todays technology.

As for armors for males and females.. I would love if they would go more to the way of Oblivion and Morrowind..

Also, Dark seducer and Golden saint costumes should look like those that are in the Oblivion.. Right now at least the Golden saint costume looks somewhat odd on Females and great on males.. Please improve female to show just a wee bit more on some heavy armours and give options to more revealing light and medium armours but not as much as ridiculous ones that modders make and call bra/panties with metal boots and gloves as armour -.-

As a general note for armours, I dont really want to change my characters armor during my leveling process, i wish to find one style that fits the characters BIO and keep using it until the bitter end. Whether it be level 1-15 combination or armor looks from here and there from any level range.

Crafting should have one more selector where you could select what "Material style" you want to have in finished product..

For example you make Steel armpour but can select style of iron armour made from steel so that you can keep uusing that rustic look on you poor sellsword if you would like to.

Mumnoch

eNumbra wrote: »

Mumnoch wrote: »

"I just don't like seeing female skin" comments.

You're not the first person to assert seeing this, why don't you quote it.

Mumnoch wrote: »

Not any of you against Zenimax releasing a tool that unpacks and repacks armor textures has listed 1 viable reason to not have them

Even if there is no valid reason to prevent them doing it, doesn't mean there's a valid reason to do it.

I'm guessing you mean list it in the OP, good idea consider it done and thanks!

"Even if there is no valid reason..." That's what a lot of us are asking for, because we believe there is a valid reason to do this. Looking the world over (including influences from the extremes of societies) you'll be hard pressed to find a MMO that is as prudish as ESO is (lvl 40-VR14 armors) towards females. ESO compounds this by having painted on armor (like other posters have mentioned). This results in anyone who play's this game is subjected to painted low quality ugly armor. Compound this with Zenimax's direct effort's to make this ugly armor even worse on female avatar's(they have changed armor recently to cover more skin on females for instance).

There are a ton of people who own/or are thinking of owning ESO but don't play/won't buy the game to play because of this. It's human nature for people to be vain but ESO doesn't fulfill this need via gear selection (especially females). I believe that's a valid enough reason to do it. I'd ask modder's to just make a tool to unpack/repack textures and call it a day but it seems this is out of the realm of ability for current modders.


Edit:
It seems there is a time limit to how long you can edit your posts. I can no longer edit the OP.

eNumbra

Mumnoch wrote: »

It seems there is a time limit to how long you can edit your posts. I can no longer edit the OP.

Go ahead and list them in a reply to this post, I'll wait.

Mumnoch wrote: »

There are a ton of people who own/or are thinking of owning ESO but don't play/won't buy the game to play because of this.

This is another rather empty assertion, you seem to make a few of these.

Glurin

MercyKilling wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

except, of course, anyone who actually wants PVP to be anything other than a rainbow-based joke.

Given the current dye colors I've been seeing out in the PvE world, it already is.

I was just thinking the other day about how many people there are in ESO with really bad taste and color coordination.

Arcanasx

What is this silly fascination with putting females in "heavy armor" that show skin?



Imagine if she showed some cleavage and some midriff wearing that...people need to understand that there is a fundamental difference between certain "clothing apparel" and "armor". Its like making a tank that's less armored in the front than everywhere else, or castle wall finished with "an intentional opening".

And before anyone makes a snarky remark that her head isn't covered, its a painting meant to show the face.

MercyKilling

Arcanasx wrote: »

Imagine if she showed some cleavage and some midriff wearing that...people need to understand that there is a fundamental difference between certain "clothing apparel" and "armor". Its like making a tank that's less armored in the front than everywhere else, or castle wall finished with "an intentional opening".

And what is the equally silly notion that just because an armor shows some skin, it cannot protect equally well or perhaps even better thanks to magical enchantments?

Looking back at Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind, there have been enchantments to boost the light armor skill, medium armor skill and heavy armor skill. These essentially make the armor more effective at absorbing or deflecting damage, correct?

Granted, there's not a MECHANIC in the game for such currently, and also currently the only enchantments you can put on armor boost stats,(at least beyond leveling and improving the level of the skill) but the LORE is there for it, and lets face it....this is pretendy fun time game. If you can walk around in a world where bipedal reptiles and cats are found..why can you not accept this simple fact of lore?

Basically, armor that looks like this:



can be as protective or even more so, thanks to magic, than armor that looks like this:





Also let it be known, I'm not asking for "skimpy" armor, but I'm not knee jerk excluding it because -I- realize people have different taste in aesthetics than I do, and I don't want to exclude anyone because of MY preferences.

More choices/options in an MMO is always a good thing.

UrQuan

Arcanasx wrote: »

And before anyone makes a snarky remark that her head isn't covered, its a painting meant to show the face.

Joan of Arc was well known for using the Hide Helmet setting found under Gameplay.

Arcanasx

MercyKilling wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

Imagine if she showed some cleavage and some midriff wearing that...people need to understand that there is a fundamental difference between certain "clothing apparel" and "armor". Its like making a tank that's less armored in the front than everywhere else, or castle wall finished with "an intentional opening".

And what is the equally silly notion that just because an armor shows some skin, it cannot protect equally well or perhaps even better thanks to magical enchantments?

Look, this wont provide as much protection compared to being fully armored. It should be common sense. So what if you can enchant skimpy armor to provide more protection? You could do the same for armor that fully covers you as well!

Arcanasx

UrQuan wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

And before anyone makes a snarky remark that her head isn't covered, its a painting meant to show the face.

Joan of Arc was well known for using the Hide Helmet setting found under Gameplay.

No wonder they caught her and burned her at the stake for witchcraft...it all makes sense!

And imagine if they added a mechanic that after an emperor is dethroned, they would be brought back to one of the gates of the alliance that replaced them, and the new emperor would have the honor of choosing from a variety of execution methods...where people could watch and celebrate!

Glurin

Arcanasx wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

Imagine if she showed some cleavage and some midriff wearing that...people need to understand that there is a fundamental difference between certain "clothing apparel" and "armor". Its like making a tank that's less armored in the front than everywhere else, or castle wall finished with "an intentional opening".

And what is the equally silly notion that just because an armor shows some skin, it cannot protect equally well or perhaps even better thanks to magical enchantments?

Look, this wont provide as much protection compared to being fully armored. It should be common sense. So what if you can enchant skimpy armor to provide more protection? You could do the same for armor that fully covers you as well!

And on the flip-side, you could enchant a tongue piercing and wear nothing but that into battle. Sure would create some distraction and confusion within the enemy ranks.

MercyKilling

Arcanasx wrote: »

Look, this wont provide as much protection compared to being fully armored. It should be common sense. So what if you can enchant skimpy armor to provide more protection? You could do the same for armor that fully covers you as well!

So? You'd think common sense tells you that it's impossible to breathe fire, or throw out a chain to pull a foe to you, or summon a massive fireball directly from the sun to smash into the ground and damage JUST your enemies, and not the other people around you.

Common sense argument has no place in a fantasy setting. Yes, that skimpy armor you pictured IN A FANTASY SETTING can(and does) provide equivalent protection to armor that covers you head to toe. Why? Because.....