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Bikini Costume Please!
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LadyNerevar✭✭✭
To restrict an artist from their vision is to censor them and stifle creativity. ZOS makes what ZOS wants to make, and if it's their creative decision to return to the sexy origins of the series it's entirely their creative liberty to do so.
The artistic freedom argument only ever comes up in favor of sexy armor outfits. ESO has proven both by their original design and by the later redesigns that they are not in favor of sexy armor outfits. So, by demanding sexy armor outfits (or a return of the boob window), you are, in fact, attempting to "restrict their vision."
Different games (even within the same series) have different artistic philosophies. Daggerfall was very high fantasy pixel nudity; every other TES game made in the last 16 years was very much focused on more realistic armor. There were different degrees of this (the Skyrim armor I linked earlier in the thread, for example), but introducing a bikini into ESO's existing art design would stick out like a sore thumb.Edited by LadyNerevar on April 23, 2015 12:01AMLibrarian at the Imperial Library4 -
MercyKilling✭✭✭✭✭LadyNerevar wrote: »
To restrict an artist from their vision is to censor them and stifle creativity. ZOS makes what ZOS wants to make, and if it's their creative decision to return to the sexy origins of the series it's entirely their creative liberty to do so.
The artistic freedom argument only ever comes up in favor of sexy armor. ESO has proven both by their original design and by the later redesigns that they are not in favor of sexy armor. So, by demanding sexy armor (or a return of the boob window), you are, in fact, attempting to "restrict their vision."
I feel compelled to point out.....the title of the thread is "Bikini COSTUME please" not "Bikini ARMOR please". You lot are foaming at the mouth about nothing at all.I am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
3) Difficulty slider.
4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.2 -
Taz✭✭✭MercyKilling wrote: »I feel compelled to point out.....the title of the thread is "Bikini COSTUME please" not "Bikini ARMOR please". You lot are foaming at the mouth about nothing at all.t.steve1991ub17_ESO wrote: »I need some skimpy armors. I play many different MMORPG's and in all of them I gravitate towards female warriors in scantily clad armors. Please add something like this thx!
The title isn't the only thing.Edited by Taz on April 23, 2015 12:00AM0 -
LadyNerevar✭✭✭MercyKilling wrote: »I feel compelled to point out.....the title of the thread is "Bikini COSTUME please" not "Bikini ARMOR please". You lot are foaming at the mouth about nothing at all.
1) I'm not foaming at the mouth.
2) If you'd like, I can go back and edit it all to say "costume." My argument isn't with it not being effective armor, but rather with it not fitting into the established ESO (and TES) art style.Librarian at the Imperial Library0 -
Adramelach✭✭✭WE WANT OUR COSTUMES THAT ARE BASED ON TES LORE!!!
This needs repeating. Clearly TES lore includes outfits/armor that are about as skimpy as you like, so those saying "Stick to LORE!" really need to quiet down and actually LOOK AT some of the existing lore (like the above) they are trying to stick to.
Second, we're in a world where a *ring* can provide substantial armor protection. As soon as you introduce the concept of "magical protection" being imbued into objects, pretty much all bets are off; you can easily support the existence of a "bikini" that's enchanted with similar magics to a ring or a necklace, that allow it to protect with the same value as say a full metal breastplate (or at least a light shirt, or even perhaps a medium chest piece).
It really makes me laugh when people complain about how that would be "unrealistic", then pop on to their sorcerer, teleport to their wayshrine of choice (impossible), eat their magic food (impossible), cast various (impossible) spells at (impossible) creatures, quaff instant-heal potions (impossible) and basically defy about a dozen physical laws per minute for the rest of the evening, while stewing over the preposterous notion that a bikini top could *ever* protect anyone as well as armor (just like their magic ring already does, of course - but if it's a ring, it's perfectly acceptable, even if it covers about half a square inch of skin around your finger).Edited by Adramelach on April 23, 2015 12:15AM8 -
As far as immersion goes, there really is no 'realistic' fantasy environment that makes you grind as much as an mmo does.
As an mmo its not fantasy like that so I'd like a bikini too please.0 -
LadyNerevar✭✭✭Adramelach wrote: »This needs repeating. Clearly TES lore includes outfits/armor that are about as skimpy as you like, so those saying "Stick to LORE!" really need to quiet down and actually LOOK AT some of the existing lore (like the above) they are trying to stick to.LadyNerevar wrote: »Different games (even within the same series) have different artistic philosophies. Daggerfall was very high fantasy pixel nudity; every TES game made in the last 16 years was very much focused on more realistic armor. There were different degrees of this (the Skyrim armor I linked earlier in the thread, for example), but introducing a bikini into ESO's existing art design would stick out like a sore thumb.
Let me put it in a visual way:
Those two do not look like they belong in the same universe.
Edited by LadyNerevar on April 23, 2015 12:28AMLibrarian at the Imperial Library3 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭LadyNerevar wrote: »Adramelach wrote: »This needs repeating. Clearly TES lore includes outfits/armor that are about as skimpy as you like, so those saying "Stick to LORE!" really need to quiet down and actually LOOK AT some of the existing lore (like the above) they are trying to stick to.LadyNerevar wrote: »Different games (even within the same series) have different artistic philosophies. Daggerfall was very high fantasy pixel nudity; every TES game made in the last 16 years was very much focused on more realistic armor. There were different degrees of this (the Skyrim armor I linked earlier in the thread, for example), but introducing a bikini into ESO's existing art design would stick out like a sore thumb.
Let me put it in a visual way:
...
Those two do not look like they belong in the same universe.
Yeah, those two don't look like they belong in the same universe, I suppose.
...but it shouldn't be too difficult to introduce armors that do look like they belong in the realm of ESO.Edited by Varicite on April 23, 2015 12:45AM6 -
PKMN12✭✭✭✭✭LadyNerevar wrote: »Adramelach wrote: »This needs repeating. Clearly TES lore includes outfits/armor that are about as skimpy as you like, so those saying "Stick to LORE!" really need to quiet down and actually LOOK AT some of the existing lore (like the above) they are trying to stick to.LadyNerevar wrote: »Different games (even within the same series) have different artistic philosophies. Daggerfall was very high fantasy pixel nudity; every TES game made in the last 16 years was very much focused on more realistic armor. There were different degrees of this (the Skyrim armor I linked earlier in the thread, for example), but introducing a bikini into ESO's existing art design would stick out like a sore thumb.
Let me put it in a visual way:
Those two do not look like they belong in the same universe.
The ignorance behind this comment is amusing. Nocturnal Dress anyone, how about all that fur, or maybe Ancient Nordic, heck they even have a wench outfit in Skyrim.
Morrowind had Alemexia wearing a literal armored bikini, and it is clearly, and heavily implied she ALWAYS wore that even before she became a god, Vivec is a walking shirtless scene 24/7.
also, you people DO realize, a lot of the armors in this game make no sense realistically anyway. many of them have the throat area exposed, or helmets that either completely block vision or are relatively useless as helmets, and i am not even going to get into many of the argonian racial armors, that are supposedly heavy, but looks more like someone tried to glue some padding to light mail of some sort, failed, and gave up half-way through.
I am not for bikini armor really, but to say skimpy armor in ANY way is not in elder scrolls, even today, is full of either ignorance or seeing the game through personal Nostalgia glasses (which is scary fore skyrim since it is only 4 years old at this point)2 -
Adramelach wrote: »WE WANT OUR COSTUMES THAT ARE BASED ON TES LORE!!!
This needs repeating. Clearly TES lore includes outfits/armor that are about as skimpy as you like, so those saying "Stick to LORE!" really need to quiet down and actually LOOK AT some of the existing lore (like the above) they are trying to stick to.
Second, we're in a world where a *ring* can provide substantial armor protection. As soon as you introduce the concept of "magical protection" being imbued into objects, pretty much all bets are off; you can easily support the existence of a "bikini" that's enchanted with similar magics to a ring or a necklace, that allow it to protect with the same value as say a full metal breastplate (or at least a light shirt, or even perhaps a medium chest piece).
It really makes me laugh when people complain about how that would be "unrealistic", then pop on to their sorcerer, teleport to their wayshrine of choice (impossible), eat their magic food (impossible), cast various (impossible) spells at (impossible) creatures, quaff instant-heal potions (impossible) and basically defy about a dozen physical laws per minute for the rest of the evening, while stewing over the preposterous notion that a bikini top could *ever* protect anyone as well as armor (just like their magic ring already does, of course - but if it's a ring, it's perfectly acceptable, even if it covers about half a square inch of skin around your finger).
Anything relating to gameplay choices is off the table in lore.
Fantasy is permitted to stray from reality. However, in the process it sets up its own "reality." The world is meant to be believable and provide a moderate amount of immersion.
Creatures, spells, and teleportation are all examples of fantasy "reality." These are all acceptable.
The rings are magically enchanted. They generally (or never as far as I know) provide direct protection (armor rating) but instead offer magical protection. A bikini, theoretically, could offer this as well.
A bikini as armor, in TES lore, is viable but not effective. The existence of the bikini, in any form (clothing/ armor/ other), is not. It does not fit in with the existing cultures or style of any of the races and has not been portrayed in the developer's art style in years.
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PKMN12✭✭✭✭✭c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »The existence of the bikini, in any form (clothing/ armor/ other), is not. It does not fit in with the existing cultures or style of any of the races and has not been portrayed in the developer's art style in years.
Almexia and her literal chainmail bikini say hi
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Snit✭✭✭✭✭
✭If your argument is to allow freedom of expression, lets discuss.
Sorry, but "I want my avatar in a bikini" is not usually associated with "freedom of artistic expression." More often, it's the rallying cry of those who would also like to see boobjiggles in the physics engine.
TESO has an art style. It is expressed well and consistently. It's low-medium fantasy, and its females are not Frazetta Fur-Bikini-Knockoffs. If that's what you want, there's plenty of fantasy art out there to support your... needs. In this game, though, armor tends to look somewhat more functional.Snit AD Sorc
Ratbag AD Warden Tank
Goblins AD Stamblade4 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »The existence of the bikini, in any form (clothing/ armor/ other), is not. It does not fit in with the existing cultures or style of any of the races and has not been portrayed in the developer's art style in years.In this game, though, armor tends to look somewhat more functional.
Weird, I just posted 8 screenshots that seem to disagree w/ both of you.
/shrug4 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Its whatever man. i honestly dont care. I prefer the more covered style personally. but you are free to think what you want.If your argument is to allow freedom of expression, lets discuss.
Sorry, but "I want my avatar in a bikini" is not usually associated with "freedom of artistic expression." More often, it's the rallying cry of those who would also like to see boobjiggles in the physics engine.
TESO has an art style. It is expressed well and consistently. It's low-medium fantasy, and its females are not Frazetta Fur-Bikini-Knockoffs. If that's what you want, there's plenty of fantasy art out there to support your... needs. In this game, though, armor tends to look somewhat more functional.
This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
PKMN12✭✭✭✭✭c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »The existence of the bikini, in any form (clothing/ armor/ other), is not. It does not fit in with the existing cultures or style of any of the races and has not been portrayed in the developer's art style in years.In this game, though, armor tends to look somewhat more functional.
Weird, I just posted 8 screenshots that seem to disagree w/ both of you.
/shrug
I also posted examples from both Morrowind AND Skyrim where there are skimpy outfits.
pretty sure the whole "against lore/game design/etc" argument has kinda been crushed.Edited by PKMN12 on April 23, 2015 12:53AM1 -
LadyNerevar✭✭✭The ignorance behind this comment is amusing. Nocturnal Dress anyone, how about all that fur, or maybe Ancient Nordic, heck they even have a wench outfit in Skyrim.
Sweet baby Talos, for someone complaining about my ignorance, you clearly didn't read my previous post where I used those very same examples. The fur, ancient nordic, and foresworn armor all fit into Skyrim's art style. Random bikini does not fit into ESO's.
Librarian at the Imperial Library0 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »I'm not going to even start on how pathetic this is...
Instead, I'm simply going to point out that the Elder Scrolls series has always been a wonderfully brilliant world of fantasy that introduces you to plenty of well done characters. This includes multiple strong, non-sexualized women that allows both male and female players to have the opportunity to play and meet various respectable, strong, and sometimes feared women. If they went as low as adding bikinis for fan service I would be severely disappointed.
I'm not going to call this way of thinking shallow, but you seriously can't find respect, strength, and something to be feared in a woman because of who she is? You base that on what she wears?
This. The clothing doesn't mean anything much.-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.0 -
PKMN12✭✭✭✭✭LadyNerevar wrote: »The ignorance behind this comment is amusing. Nocturnal Dress anyone, how about all that fur, or maybe Ancient Nordic, heck they even have a wench outfit in Skyrim.
Sweet baby Talos, for someone complaining about my ignorance, you clearly didn't read my previous post where I used those very same examples. The fur, ancient nordic, and foresworn armor all fit into Skyrim's art style. Random bikini does not fit into ESO's.
once again, Almexia and Vivec say Hi (Why do people always forget them?)
and then another person posted things pictures that directly prove your wrong, so not sure what you are talking about.1 -
LadyNerevar✭✭✭once again, Almexia and Vivec say Hi (Why do people always forget them?)
I'm not forgetting them. They are outliers.
Let me also point out that ESO changed Almalexia's design quite a bit. She's far more covered up than her Tribunal depiction, though both are still far more exposed than the original concept art.
@Varicite - none of those are random bikinis. I fail to see your point.
Edited by LadyNerevar on April 23, 2015 1:04AMLibrarian at the Imperial Library0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭LadyNerevar wrote: »@Varicite - none of those are random bikinis. I fail to see your point.
They are pretty close. It's not like it would be hard to add a bikini-like outfit and still make it fit in perfectly w/ ESO's art style.
That's the point.
/shrug2 -
PKMN12✭✭✭✭✭LadyNerevar wrote: »once again, Almexia and Vivec say Hi (Why do people always forget them?)
I'm not forgetting them. They are outliers.
Let me also point out that ESO changed Almalexia's design quite a bit. She's far more covered up than her Tribunal depiction, though both are still far more exposed than the original concept art.
@Varicite - none of those are random bikinis. I fail to see your point.
uh, not really, the onyl thing they changes was adding sleeves, pretty much, it is still basically a bikini.
and yeah, those armors are pretty skimpy.
neither of us are saying BIKINI's only are lore-wise, but that skimpy armor is common to the series and even this game, so saying that "it does not fit into the game" or even into lore is downright false.2 -
c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »The existence of the bikini, in any form (clothing/ armor/ other), is not. It does not fit in with the existing cultures or style of any of the races and has not been portrayed in the developer's art style in years.In this game, though, armor tends to look somewhat more functional.
Weird, I just posted 8 screenshots that seem to disagree w/ both of you.
/shrug
Your post was not until after I began working on mine.
That aside... Revealing armor is 100% acceptable. Battle bikinis are not. It does not make any sense.2 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What I find amusing is that for men sexy or good looking, always comes with boobs, nudity or similar. How about having a sexy hair cut, or a nice hat?
These things don't turn you on?
Must admit though, women tend to also favor the muscle, nude chest "victim" if they hunt for "entertainment".
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Dissentinel✭✭✭I'd be pretty offended if ZOS were to add that sort of clothing for females to the game. It's just unrealistic and unnecessary. They should be working on adding new features to the game and fixing bugs, not adding skimpy armors to it. Also, there are plenty of female players in ESO. Women should not have to be objectified in a game so that the immature male players who perceive this objectification of women as "beauty" are pleased at the expense of the female playerbase. This objectification is not art. It changes the way the world views women - as objects, not people. Everyone deserves respect no matter what their anatomy is. TES should be trying to break stereotypes, not reinforce them. I could go on for days on this topic, but I won't. As other players in this thread have said, if they want to show skin on their character, they can take off their armor altogether or use the Golden Saint/Dark Seducer costumes.3 -
PKMN12✭✭✭✭✭What I find amusing is that for men sexy or good looking, always comes with boobs, nudity or similar. How about having a sexy hair cut, or a nice hat?
These things don't turn you on?
Must admit though, women tend to also favor the muscle, nude chest "victim" if they hunt for "entertainment".
I DO agree personally, i actually prefer armor that looks like it covers at least most of the body.
I have only been pointing out that there IS room for people who DO want at least some options for skimpier armor.
By the way, ZOS if you can get something similar to those two armors in the cash shop (and a KAtana weapon skin), I would buy it faster then you can say "we have new costumes"Edited by PKMN12 on April 23, 2015 1:20AM3 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭What I find amusing is that for men sexy or good looking, always comes with boobs, nudity or similar. How about having a sexy hair cut, or a nice hat?
These things don't turn you on?
Must admit though, women tend to also favor the muscle, nude chest "victim" if they hunt for "entertainment".
I find the need to generally stereotype entire genders kind of amusing myself, considering that it's well-known how much opinions about dress differ between cultures and credos.
/shrug
And no, a nice hat does not "turn me on", lol. A sexy haircut might, though.
I honestly don't have a vested interest in the debate, but if people want to wear skimpy clothing, that's fine by me. Doesn't exactly hurt my gameplay in any tangible way.
Pretty much the same way that I am not offended that it's Summer and I live in the South, so there are bare arms and legs everywhere. Not really effecting my day in any real way. I'd be equally non-offended by overcoats and fedoras, though.Edited by Varicite on April 23, 2015 1:25AM1 -
LadyNerevar✭✭✭They are pretty close. It's not like it would be hard to add a bikini-like outfit and still make it fit in perfectly w/ ESO's art style.
I'm not against more revealing outfits, I said as much in my first post. I'd love to see the Foresworn armor from Skyrim show up, or the iconic sleeveless leather Dovahkiin getup. The pictures you link are acceptable to me (even if I think the spiky boob cups look dumb and really uncomfortable). There's some tummy showing and the neck line is rather low, but it's still something I'd maybe consider wearing, especially in a hot climate. If they added more outfits like that, I wouldn't object.
When I think bikini armor, I think a bra and some underwear. I think this, or this, or this. I don't think there's anything wrong with those objectively (especially the Red Sonja one. I love me some barbarian fiction), but I don't think that they fit into the world of Elder Scrolls as it has been portrayed in the modern games.uh, not really, the onyl thing they changes was adding sleeves, pretty much, it is still basically a bikini.
The new design is wearing a crop top rather than a bra, has a much higher neck line, two sleeves, and random legwarmers. I do wish they'd kept the huge extravagant shoulder pads, though.Librarian at the Imperial Library0 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What I find amusing is that for men sexy or good looking, always comes with boobs, nudity or similar. How about having a sexy hair cut, or a nice hat?
These things don't turn you on?
Must admit though, women tend to also favor the muscle, nude chest "victim" if they hunt for "entertainment".
I DO agree personally, i actually prefer armor that looks like it covers at least most of the body.
I have only been pointing out that there IS room for people who DO want at least some options for skimpier armor.
By the way, ZOS if you can get something similar to those two armors in the cash shop (and a KAtana weapon skin), I would buy it faster then you can say "we have new costumes"
Those are very nice pictures, thanks for those. It shows well, that beauty can consist of much more than naked skin
What I find amusing is that for men sexy or good looking, always comes with boobs, nudity or similar. How about having a sexy hair cut, or a nice hat?
These things don't turn you on?
Must admit though, women tend to also favor the muscle, nude chest "victim" if they hunt for "entertainment".
I find the need to generally stereotype entire genders kind of amusing myself, considering that it's well-known how much opinions about dress differ between cultures and credos.
/shrug
And no, a nice hat does not "turn me on", lol. A sexy haircut might, though.
I honestly don't have a vested interest in the debate, but if people want to wear skimpy clothing, that's fine by me. Doesn't exactly hurt my gameplay in any tangible way.
Pretty much the same way that I am not offended that it's Summer and I live in the South, so there are bare arms and legs everywhere. Not really effecting my day in any real way. I'd be equally non-offended by overcoats and fedoras, though.
Aye, I hear you
I love hats though! But also capes and stuff. I always say that I would had fit wonderfully into the 14-18th century based on my taste for clothes. Maybe I am weird, but hey I love to be different. Edited by Audigy on April 23, 2015 1:31AM1 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭What I find amusing is that for men sexy or good looking, always comes with boobs, nudity or similar. How about having a sexy hair cut, or a nice hat?
These things don't turn you on?
Must admit though, women tend to also favor the muscle, nude chest "victim" if they hunt for "entertainment".
I DO agree personally, i actually prefer armor that looks like it covers at least most of the body.
I have only been pointing out that there IS room for people who DO want at least some options for skimpier armor.
By the way, ZOS if you can get something similar to those two armors in the cash shop (and a KAtana weapon skin), I would buy it faster then you can say "we have new costumes"
Those are very nice pictures, thanks for those. It shows well, that beauty can consist of much more than naked skin
Oh, was that the debate? I thought that it was that naked skin doesn't automatically make you a pervert or floozy. ; )0
This discussion has been closed.