Patch Notes are up

Grapdjan

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

tengri wrote: »

Due to extensive pillaging, many containers in Mzeneldt (the Dwemer ruins from the Fighters Guild questline) and Avanchnzel (the Dwemer delve located in the Rift) have been ransacked, causing many of them to be emptier than before.

Wow. Just wow.
A very subtile approach to start pushing sales of the Dwemer Motifs in the Crown Store...

Thats exactly what I thought too.

We understand why you may think that, but these two areas had many more containers than other Dwemer locations and needed to be normalized. It had nothing to do with what's available in the Crown Store. Also, the other part of that note was left out of the quote, and we want to make sure that part isn't forgotten as it's important - we are planning to increase the number of containers in other Dwemer locations in the near future to compensate.

Rather than 'in the near future' might I suggest it would have been better to have done it at the same time.

This way it would have looked less like an unscrupulous money grab in the recent monetization of motifs.

Razzak

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

tengri wrote: »

Due to extensive pillaging, many containers in Mzeneldt (the Dwemer ruins from the Fighters Guild questline) and Avanchnzel (the Dwemer delve located in the Rift) have been ransacked, causing many of them to be emptier than before.

Wow. Just wow.
A very subtile approach to start pushing sales of the Dwemer Motifs in the Crown Store...

Thats exactly what I thought too.

We understand why you may think that, but these two areas had many more containers than other Dwemer locations and needed to be normalized. It had nothing to do with what's available in the Crown Store. Also, the other part of that note was left out of the quote, and we want to make sure that part isn't forgotten as it's important - we are planning to increase the number of containers in other Dwemer locations in the near future to compensate.

Before or after you've successfully sold thousands of them in the Crown shop?

bertenburnyb16_ESO

lol after half a year or so they nerf the dwemer motif farm spots, little late dont cha think?

Raash

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

tengri wrote: »

Due to extensive pillaging, many containers in Mzeneldt (the Dwemer ruins from the Fighters Guild questline) and Avanchnzel (the Dwemer delve located in the Rift) have been ransacked, causing many of them to be emptier than before.

Wow. Just wow.
A very subtile approach to start pushing sales of the Dwemer Motifs in the Crown Store...

Thats exactly what I thought too.

We understand why you may think that, but these two areas had many more containers than other Dwemer locations and needed to be normalized. It had nothing to do with what's available in the Crown Store. Also, the other part of that note was left out of the quote, and we want to make sure that part isn't forgotten as it's important - we are planning to increase the number of containers in other Dwemer locations in the near future to compensate.

Pff, "we are planning to increase..." yeah right, I bet there was lots of technical complications such as revamping of game systems, game engine tweaks and what not that prevented this to be done before you patched with the container nerf Somehow I have a hard time to picture how adding containers to locations would be such a hazzle.
That this change just accidently happen with the entrence of crown store motifs is of coarse just coincidence.

Speaking of container nerfs, I am 99% sure that you guys sort of already have nerfed rare motif drops by simply adding more stuff that drops from them. If drop ratio before was 1/1000 its now 10/10000, still same procent but a really big difference in actual drops.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Raash wrote: »

Speaking of container nerfs, I am 99% sure that you guys sort of already have nerfed rare motif drops by simply adding more stuff that drops from them. If drop ratio before was 1/1000 its now 10/10000, still same procent but a really big difference in actual drops.

That's actually the one aspect for which i give ZOS the benefit of the doubt : If they had wanted to globally reduce the availability of dwemer motifs in the game, they could have done it easily and silently instead of doing this.

wraith808

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

However...

You don't have to buy them!

It's precisely the same argument that is used to defend selling them in the crown shop - they are purely cosmetic (not really because you get an achievement + dye, but...). You don't need them, they don't "improve" your capability, they don't make you more powerful, they aren't required to complete a quest. You don't have to buy them.

So if people aren't worried about them appearing in the crown shop I don't see how they can worry about farmers making ridiculous amounts of in game gold.

At least the farmers put some time and effort into getting them.

What's really unfair is that Avanchnzel is a prime VR10 grinding area for some, whereas for others you get no XP at all...

Straw Man Alert! The arguments are in no way the same other than on a very superficial level. But... you already know that, right?

I_killed_Vivec

wraith808 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

However...

You don't have to buy them!

It's precisely the same argument that is used to defend selling them in the crown shop - they are purely cosmetic (not really because you get an achievement + dye, but...). You don't need them, they don't "improve" your capability, they don't make you more powerful, they aren't required to complete a quest. You don't have to buy them.

So if people aren't worried about them appearing in the crown shop I don't see how they can worry about farmers making ridiculous amounts of in game gold.

At least the farmers put some time and effort into getting them.

What's really unfair is that Avanchnzel is a prime VR10 grinding area for some, whereas for others you get no XP at all...

Straw Man Alert! The arguments are in no way the same other than on a very superficial level. But... you already know that, right?

The argument is the same. You don't need motifs, you don't have to buy motifs - from farmers or the crown shop.

The implications might not be the same, but I never said they were

Of course it isn't as simplistic as "you don't need to buy them", there's all the considerations about how the in-game economy is skewed by farming, and indeed by the crown shop. I don't know if the crown shop will put farmers out of business, or if people will shun the shop and the gold price of motifs will go up. I'm also not sure about how the game is skewed by farmers being able to afford gear they otherwise couldn't - or indeed players saving in-game gold by buying crown shop motifs, potions, soul gems and the like.

I'm not even sure how XP potions will skew the game, but I suspect that these will be more damaging.

But a quick look at the number of threads on the crown shop, and the opinions expressed within them, shows there's a lot of hypocrisy when it comes to what the crown shop should sell and what constitutes P2W.

wraith808

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

However...

You don't have to buy them!

It's precisely the same argument that is used to defend selling them in the crown shop - they are purely cosmetic (not really because you get an achievement + dye, but...). You don't need them, they don't "improve" your capability, they don't make you more powerful, they aren't required to complete a quest. You don't have to buy them.

So if people aren't worried about them appearing in the crown shop I don't see how they can worry about farmers making ridiculous amounts of in game gold.

At least the farmers put some time and effort into getting them.

What's really unfair is that Avanchnzel is a prime VR10 grinding area for some, whereas for others you get no XP at all...

Straw Man Alert! The arguments are in no way the same other than on a very superficial level. But... you already know that, right?

The argument is the same. You don't need motifs, you don't have to buy motifs - from farmers or the crown shop.

The implications might not be the same, but I never said they were

Of course it isn't as simplistic as "you don't need to buy them", there's all the considerations about how the in-game economy is skewed by farming, and indeed by the crown shop. I don't know if the crown shop will put farmers out of business, or if people will shun the shop and the gold price of motifs will go up. I'm also not sure about how the game is skewed by farmers being able to afford gear they otherwise couldn't - or indeed players saving in-game gold by buying crown shop motifs, potions, soul gems and the like.

I'm not even sure how XP potions will skew the game, but I suspect that these will be more damaging.

But a quick look at the number of threads on the crown shop, and the opinions expressed within them, shows there's a lot of hypocrisy when it comes to what the crown shop should sell and what constitutes P2W.

Really? You're going on that thin line? And trying to argue it?

The argument is not the same other than words if the implications are not the same. But you knew that. Argue based on the merits rather than comparing it to some nebulous comparisons- it will make your argument more solid IMO.

But that would remove your arguments for hypocrisy, so...

I_killed_Vivec

wraith808 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

However...

You don't have to buy them!

It's precisely the same argument that is used to defend selling them in the crown shop - they are purely cosmetic (not really because you get an achievement + dye, but...). You don't need them, they don't "improve" your capability, they don't make you more powerful, they aren't required to complete a quest. You don't have to buy them.

So if people aren't worried about them appearing in the crown shop I don't see how they can worry about farmers making ridiculous amounts of in game gold.

At least the farmers put some time and effort into getting them.

What's really unfair is that Avanchnzel is a prime VR10 grinding area for some, whereas for others you get no XP at all...

Straw Man Alert! The arguments are in no way the same other than on a very superficial level. But... you already know that, right?

The argument is the same. You don't need motifs, you don't have to buy motifs - from farmers or the crown shop.

The implications might not be the same, but I never said they were

Of course it isn't as simplistic as "you don't need to buy them", there's all the considerations about how the in-game economy is skewed by farming, and indeed by the crown shop. I don't know if the crown shop will put farmers out of business, or if people will shun the shop and the gold price of motifs will go up. I'm also not sure about how the game is skewed by farmers being able to afford gear they otherwise couldn't - or indeed players saving in-game gold by buying crown shop motifs, potions, soul gems and the like.

I'm not even sure how XP potions will skew the game, but I suspect that these will be more damaging.

But a quick look at the number of threads on the crown shop, and the opinions expressed within them, shows there's a lot of hypocrisy when it comes to what the crown shop should sell and what constitutes P2W.

Really? You're going on that thin line? And trying to argue it?

The argument is not the same other than words if the implications are not the same. But you knew that. Argue based on the merits rather than comparing it to some nebulous comparisons- it will make your argument more solid IMO.

But that would remove your arguments for hypocrisy, so...

No, it's not my argument, which is the whole point.

There are repercussions to "You don't have to buy them" whether applied to the sale of motifs by the crown shop or by motif farmers, but these repercussions are generally ignored by people who say "You don't have to buy them".

Motifs sold in the crown shop - who cares? You don't have to buy them...

Motifs sold for extortionate amounts by farmers - who cares? You don't have to buy them...

This isn't a "thin line". I was responding to the comment "Prices on everything go up when more people farm these motifs and the gold starts building up on a select group of players who are then able to pay way higher prices for things, which then brings the price of those other things up." Now this only applies because there is a market for motifs - even though "You don't have to buy them". Take away that market, because farming is nerfed and motifs are sold in the crown store, and there's a lot of in-game gold that would have been spent on motifs sloshing around in the economy. That will again drive up prices (simplistic economics, but probably true), and you will get a "select group of players" who have a lot of gold because they are selling the next must-have.

What will people who don't have to buy motifs spend their gold on? Probably farmed dropped gear - just like now