What do you think about sorcs.

TheElementalPlatypus · April 2015

Iyas wrote: »

TheElementalPlatypus wrote: »

Sorcs aren't OP, all other magic builds just dont even compare...
Stamina is OP if anything...
Infinite roll dodge
3k weapon damage
10k CRIT charge MINIMUM

IF they change vigor to alliance rank 5... inb4 re-roll stamina NB

Also one thing the stamblade nerf is inevtiable... more and more people are using it... 3k wep dmg and 3k stam regen... higher on a bosmer

1 Sentence
Magic builds that are not sorc are so underpowered that they qq about sorcs.

TO STAMINA... if you run into all 5 of are mines chances are you should be killed... as any COMPETENT person knows if you run into those... they hurt...

show me the infinite roll dodge and 3k weapon dmg templates. thanks

Ask any good stamina NB, I know a quite a few at the moment who are pulling 2200+ regen (Enough to dodge roll for ages), or bosmers running with even upwards of 2500 regen. Its not hard to pull 3k weapon damage either, as you can get a 2k base with a 2 handed, 2300 buffed, and with skirmisher/way of the air/ravager you can get up to 3k or higher, someone here has a screenshot of someone WITH siphoning attacks TOGGLED on and STILL having 3600 weapon damage.

MarconiusBal · April 2015

I don't play sorcs and they are "somewhat" balanced.

cozmon3c_ESO · April 2015

i die more on my sorc since 1.6 then i ever did since the start of the game, im just not seeing these unkillable sorcs you guys are i guess. they go down just as easily as any dk, templar or night blade, usually have to chase them a bit but the amount of time it takes for them to die is pretty much the same.

filmoretub17_ESO · April 2015

Too many people to quote here but yes there is a poll and the numbers are not being made up in my head. Secondly you must look at polls and consider their outcome. No they are not absolute law but you must consider them and to completely ignore them is absolute ignorance. Thirdly your 1.6 sorc dies more now because you need to update him and quit playing him like a 1.6 sorc. Lastly the guy who is talking about the 3k damage NB. That NB dies when he gets hit unlike the sorc and the NB is quite easy to hit, unlike the sorc.

eventide03b14a_ESO · April 2015

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Sorc is the only class I absolutely have to put certain skills on my bar to handle. Its kinda sad I have to put one of my entire bars dedicated to handling sorcs and even then they only die if they mess up but never if I am too good.

I have to do the same for DKs because of RS. I have play differently depending on which class I'm fighting. You don't see me whining about it.

Where are these dk's you speak of? I haven't seen any.

Great rebuttal. I made the mistake of thinking you were taking this seriously.

I constantly see Sorcs who can stand against 6 people but very very rarely do I ever see a DK do that any more. Now before 1.6 they did it all the time. So where are these DK's that scare you so badly when it only takes 3 people tops to take them down.

I don't believe you. I think you're lying to try and make a point or at the very least exaggerating. L2P.

ToRelax wrote: »

exiledtyrant wrote: »

I think the main issues with sorcerers stem from uncapped regen and flawed defense. Regen is to high and allows for far to much skill spam with no real decision making. Sorcerer's defense is flawed because it revolves around simply not taking damage. You look at templars and DKs and their defense is fairly straight forward in healing, mitigation, and reflects. These have very simple balanced counters. Healing? defile or burst. Mitigation? flat reduction and mitigation. Reflects? don't hit them or wait till it runs out.

Nightblades rely on avoidance in a different way from sorcerers. Mainly with loss of sight in stealth or dodge chance. Stealth? pots, magelight, dots etc.. Dodge? no real counter outside of praying to RNG. As you can see the nightblade defense is somewhat toxic because it is mostly feat or famine. If you can't break stealth you are food and if the nightblade strings together a bunch of lucky dodge procs along with rolls you are food. If the opposite happens the nighblade is ruined.

Sorcerer take this to a new extreme. A sorcerer gets major mobility to out range and out pace their opponent and shields that act as a better form of health. They can also ( and should) use dodge chance. So you have another feast or famine scenario in which you either out range and out pace your opponent continuously or you get caught and die. You also have shields you must spam because your mitigation is poor and you have no real heals. If the opponent has enough stats to consistently bust your shields again you are dead or at the very least stuck on the defensive. Dodge chance again has it's own issues.

I believe the templar and the dk way of surviving is good and the nightblade and sorcerer way of surviving is toxic. Luck based defensive mechanics along with hard counter or die is not fun to play against and in my opinion not fun to play as. Until the actual defensive measures are reevaluated and regen is address we are going to have these one sided matchs ups on either side.

This guy gets it.

Ridiculous.

Kypho · April 2015

Sorcs need buff! Damage buff and defense buff, and mobility buff!! NB need serious nerf! They shall all die when logged in.

pkb16_ESO2 · April 2015

Yesterday i duelled a v2 sorc... i had no chance killing him. Sure he didnt get me down either, but that just not ok.

Against a vr14 sorc who knows only a little how to duell i dont stand a chance.
I am a good dueller, not one of the best, but quite experienced. I kill most of 2h NBs and most Dks but Sorcs...
Sorcs are OP at least for a magicka Templar. Thats not ok! Nerf sorcs or buff templar!

Ezareth · April 2015

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Yesterday i duelled a v2 sorc... i had no chance killing him. Sure he didnt get me down either, but that just not ok.

Against a vr14 sorc who knows only a little how to duell i dont stand a chance.
I am a good dueller, not one of the best, but quite experienced. I kill most of 2h NBs and most Dks but Sorcs...
Sorcs are OP at least for a magicka Templar. Thats not ok! Nerf sorcs or buff templar!

Just keep eclipse on him and laugh as he does nothing. Depending on your build a healing templar is never going to kill a Sorc. You just don't have the damage potential and Jesus beam isn't going to kill anyone using a damage shield unless they're knocked down and out of stam.

I don't know of a Templar who can kill me 1 v 1 right now but I know many whom I can't kill either. I even know of one that can permanently heal my damage and another sorc all day long and not run out of magicka. I'm fine with that.....I'm not complaining because they're powerful healers and I can't kill them when played by skilled players.

dRudE · April 2015

Sorcs are the squishiest class in the game, if you know how to play

Joy_Division · April 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Yesterday i duelled a v2 sorc... i had no chance killing him. Sure he didnt get me down either, but that just not ok.

Against a vr14 sorc who knows only a little how to duell i dont stand a chance.
I am a good dueller, not one of the best, but quite experienced. I kill most of 2h NBs and most Dks but Sorcs...
Sorcs are OP at least for a magicka Templar. Thats not ok! Nerf sorcs or buff templar!

Just keep eclipse on him and laugh as he does nothing. Depending on your build a healing templar is never going to kill a Sorc. You just don't have the damage potential and Jesus beam isn't going to kill anyone using a damage shield unless they're knocked down and out of stam.

I don't know of a Templar who can kill me 1 v 1 right now but I know many whom I can't kill either. I even know of one that can permanently heal my damage and another sorc all day long and not run out of magicka. I'm fine with that.....I'm not complaining because they're powerful healers and I can't kill them when played by skilled players.

Basically right, but as a Templar I will say this approach is not indefinitely sustainable. The main thing working against the templar is that she has no room for error. If the sorc makes a bad decision or a mistake against a Templar, he can bolt escape away before the templar can burst them down and reset the encounter so to speak. If the sorc wants to quit the encounter because they are bored, he can. When the Templar makes a mistake, she has no recourse to quit/reset the battle and has to contend with a class that actually has burst damage to get a kill.

The other problem with the Eclipse skill is that while it does shut down a sorc's offense if they don't break it, they are granted CC immunity despite *not* being CCed. Which basically means they need not worry about another eclipse or any other form of CC for that matter. Also what absolutely infuriates me, and perhaps it is only me as I don't hear anyone else complain about it, is that Eclipse does *nothing* - repeat nothing - if the target is holding block or is CC immune. In a game where the TTK is ridiculously low, losing action trying to cast a crucial defensive skill is, IMHO, intolerable.

I don't really mind the pressure that I am a Templar am put under in a duel Vs. a sorc. The class is designed to handle itself being immobile whereas Sorc's need the mobility. I accept that. What I would like to make this matchup more palatable are:

Class skills that are reliable to use. Toppling charge is the most obvious culprit here. But I put Eclipse here as well, even after the "fix" that was put in. I want the confidence that something, ideally beneficial, will happen if I press the button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.
Class skills that follow the basic mechanics in the game. If there is a weaker "hard" CC effect than the final hit of biting jabs, I'd like to know what it is. CC immunity is perhaps the most powerful effect a player can have in Cyrodiil and it *really* bother me that I hand it out like free candy when I use my bread and butter DPS skill. The solution to the perma-stun biting jabs problem was so obviously simple, IMHO it is an indictment of the ZoS development team that they not only were incapable of finding it, but also refuse to implement it after they have been told by every templar, and a fair number of non-templars. Either remove to so-called stun effect from biting jabs completely or have it actually stun the opponent in the manner of other damaging skills with a knockdown/stun effect in the game. I'd also throw in Eclipse here as well. It also grants CC immunity to opponents without incapacitating them and no other skill in the game has nothing happen when pressing a button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.
Skills that lent themselves to some sort of synergy. I am of the belief that many of the Templar skills are good on paper when viewed in isolation, but do not mesh very well together. Our best attack skills put us in close range...but we want to wear light armor because we rely on magicka to survive and the class has no built in mechanic for sustain...but if we raise our magicka pool high then our shields suck. I'd imagine stamina templars have it easier here as weapons and the extra survivability open up more options. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be

If sorcs are perceived to be too strong, I think that has more to do with the overall weakness of the other magicka-based classes are at. NBs probably do the best of the others if only because they have the option to cloak that sometimes enables them to survive in a low TTK environment and opens up options of attack not available to DKs and Templars. But that they aren't morphing the ambush skill (again, ridiculous) and also seem to have some skills not reliably function (cloak, even if overstated, and also cripple doesn't seem to work vs shields), point to a problem that goes beyond the easy and misleading answer that sorcs are OP.

Xsorus · April 2015

TheElementalPlatypus wrote: »

Iyas wrote: »

TheElementalPlatypus wrote: »

Sorcs aren't OP, all other magic builds just dont even compare...
Stamina is OP if anything...
Infinite roll dodge
3k weapon damage
10k CRIT charge MINIMUM

IF they change vigor to alliance rank 5... inb4 re-roll stamina NB

Also one thing the stamblade nerf is inevtiable... more and more people are using it... 3k wep dmg and 3k stam regen... higher on a bosmer

1 Sentence
Magic builds that are not sorc are so underpowered that they qq about sorcs.

TO STAMINA... if you run into all 5 of are mines chances are you should be killed... as any COMPETENT person knows if you run into those... they hurt...

show me the infinite roll dodge and 3k weapon dmg templates. thanks

Ask any good stamina NB, I know a quite a few at the moment who are pulling 2200+ regen (Enough to dodge roll for ages), or bosmers running with even upwards of 2500 regen. Its not hard to pull 3k weapon damage either, as you can get a 2k base with a 2 handed, 2300 buffed, and with skirmisher/way of the air/ravager you can get up to 3k or higher, someone here has a screenshot of someone WITH siphoning attacks TOGGLED on and STILL having 3600 weapon damage.

You have to understand there is a difference between the two types of setup..

The person with 3600 weapon damage had something like 1000 stamina regen..Because it required you to pick up a bunch of sets that don't have Stamina recovery on them.

Now as for getting Stamina Regen up, to break the 2k range you generally need to run Drink, or be a Bosmer Nightblade.

This of course lowers your HP a crap ton..I have like 17k for example when I run Drink, if I was an Imperial i'd have a bit higher.

Ezareth · April 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Yesterday i duelled a v2 sorc... i had no chance killing him. Sure he didnt get me down either, but that just not ok.

Against a vr14 sorc who knows only a little how to duell i dont stand a chance.
I am a good dueller, not one of the best, but quite experienced. I kill most of 2h NBs and most Dks but Sorcs...
Sorcs are OP at least for a magicka Templar. Thats not ok! Nerf sorcs or buff templar!

Just keep eclipse on him and laugh as he does nothing. Depending on your build a healing templar is never going to kill a Sorc. You just don't have the damage potential and Jesus beam isn't going to kill anyone using a damage shield unless they're knocked down and out of stam.

I don't know of a Templar who can kill me 1 v 1 right now but I know many whom I can't kill either. I even know of one that can permanently heal my damage and another sorc all day long and not run out of magicka. I'm fine with that.....I'm not complaining because they're powerful healers and I can't kill them when played by skilled players.

Basically right, but as a Templar I will say this approach is not indefinitely sustainable. The main thing working against the templar is that she has no room for error. If the sorc makes a bad decision or a mistake against a Templar, he can bolt escape away before the templar can burst them down and reset the encounter so to speak. If the sorc wants to quit the encounter because they are bored, he can. When the Templar makes a mistake, she has no recourse to quit/reset the battle and has to contend with a class that actually has burst damage to get a kill.

The other problem with the Eclipse skill is that while it does shut down a sorc's offense if they don't break it, they are granted CC immunity despite *not* being CCed. Which basically means they need not worry about another eclipse or any other form of CC for that matter. Also what absolutely infuriates me, and perhaps it is only me as I don't hear anyone else complain about it, is that Eclipse does *nothing* - repeat nothing - if the target is holding block or is CC immune. In a game where the TTK is ridiculously low, losing action trying to cast a crucial defensive skill is, IMHO, intolerable.

I don't really mind the pressure that I am a Templar am put under in a duel Vs. a sorc. The class is designed to handle itself being immobile whereas Sorc's need the mobility. I accept that. What I would like to make this matchup more palatable are:
Class skills that are reliable to use. Toppling charge is the most obvious culprit here. But I put Eclipse here as well, even after the "fix" that was put in. I want the confidence that something, ideally beneficial, will happen if I press the button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Class skills that follow the basic mechanics in the game. If there is a weaker "hard" CC effect than the final hit of biting jabs, I'd like to know what it is. CC immunity is perhaps the most powerful effect a player can have in Cyrodiil and it *really* bother me that I hand it out like free candy when I use my bread and butter DPS skill. The solution to the perma-stun biting jabs problem was so obviously simple, IMHO it is an indictment of the ZoS development team that they not only were incapable of finding it, but also refuse to implement it after they have been told by every templar, and a fair number of non-templars. Either remove to so-called stun effect from biting jabs completely or have it actually stun the opponent in the manner of other damaging skills with a knockdown/stun effect in the game. I'd also throw in Eclipse here as well. It also grants CC immunity to opponents without incapacitating them and no other skill in the game has nothing happen when pressing a button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Skills that lent themselves to some sort of synergy. I am of the belief that many of the Templar skills are good on paper when viewed in isolation, but do not mesh very well together. Our best attack skills put us in close range...but we want to wear light armor because we rely on magicka to survive and the class has no built in mechanic for sustain...but if we raise our magicka pool high then our shields suck. I'd imagine stamina templars have it easier here as weapons and the extra survivability open up more options. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be

If sorcs are perceived to be too strong, I think that has more to do with the overall weakness of the other magicka-based classes are at. NBs probably do the best of the others if only because they have the option to cloak that sometimes enables them to survive in a low TTK environment and opens up options of attack not available to DKs and Templars. But that they aren't morphing the ambush skill (again, ridiculous) and also seem to have some skills not reliably function (cloak, even if overstated, and also cripple doesn't seem to work vs shields), point to a problem that goes beyond the easy and misleading answer that sorcs are OP.

Is that a recent change to Eclipse? Because unless I break eclipse a templar has always been able to keep me eclipsed 100% of the time. There is no immunity given by eclipse and if you break free, well that isn't really "free" it's trading a small chunk of your magicka for a large chunk of their stamina pool. I'm also pretty sure you can't block eclipse because every time I try that against eclipse spammers it never works. Worst case is it drains me out of stamina and forces me to stop attacking so I can break free, giving you a chance to heal up etc.

If you can continually force me to spend my stamina from max range I'm never going to kill you in that short break free immunity window and unless the sorc you're fighting is running a full regen build like me you're going to run him out of stamina and thus be able to use a CC to knock him down and finish him.

That said I think Templar jabs need fixed/buffed, but the BS that was permastunning someone with jabs spam needs to stay dead. I think if Templar offensive capability is buffed too much their latent defensive capability will make them too powerful. I cerainly support some small tweaks to their offensive capabilities as they stand currently.

filmoretub17_ESO · April 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Yesterday i duelled a v2 sorc... i had no chance killing him. Sure he didnt get me down either, but that just not ok.

Against a vr14 sorc who knows only a little how to duell i dont stand a chance.
I am a good dueller, not one of the best, but quite experienced. I kill most of 2h NBs and most Dks but Sorcs...
Sorcs are OP at least for a magicka Templar. Thats not ok! Nerf sorcs or buff templar!

Just keep eclipse on him and laugh as he does nothing. Depending on your build a healing templar is never going to kill a Sorc. You just don't have the damage potential and Jesus beam isn't going to kill anyone using a damage shield unless they're knocked down and out of stam.

I don't know of a Templar who can kill me 1 v 1 right now but I know many whom I can't kill either. I even know of one that can permanently heal my damage and another sorc all day long and not run out of magicka. I'm fine with that.....I'm not complaining because they're powerful healers and I can't kill them when played by skilled players.

Basically right, but as a Templar I will say this approach is not indefinitely sustainable. The main thing working against the templar is that she has no room for error. If the sorc makes a bad decision or a mistake against a Templar, he can bolt escape away before the templar can burst them down and reset the encounter so to speak. If the sorc wants to quit the encounter because they are bored, he can. When the Templar makes a mistake, she has no recourse to quit/reset the battle and has to contend with a class that actually has burst damage to get a kill.

The other problem with the Eclipse skill is that while it does shut down a sorc's offense if they don't break it, they are granted CC immunity despite *not* being CCed. Which basically means they need not worry about another eclipse or any other form of CC for that matter. Also what absolutely infuriates me, and perhaps it is only me as I don't hear anyone else complain about it, is that Eclipse does *nothing* - repeat nothing - if the target is holding block or is CC immune. In a game where the TTK is ridiculously low, losing action trying to cast a crucial defensive skill is, IMHO, intolerable.

I don't really mind the pressure that I am a Templar am put under in a duel Vs. a sorc. The class is designed to handle itself being immobile whereas Sorc's need the mobility. I accept that. What I would like to make this matchup more palatable are:
Class skills that are reliable to use. Toppling charge is the most obvious culprit here. But I put Eclipse here as well, even after the "fix" that was put in. I want the confidence that something, ideally beneficial, will happen if I press the button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Class skills that follow the basic mechanics in the game. If there is a weaker "hard" CC effect than the final hit of biting jabs, I'd like to know what it is. CC immunity is perhaps the most powerful effect a player can have in Cyrodiil and it *really* bother me that I hand it out like free candy when I use my bread and butter DPS skill. The solution to the perma-stun biting jabs problem was so obviously simple, IMHO it is an indictment of the ZoS development team that they not only were incapable of finding it, but also refuse to implement it after they have been told by every templar, and a fair number of non-templars. Either remove to so-called stun effect from biting jabs completely or have it actually stun the opponent in the manner of other damaging skills with a knockdown/stun effect in the game. I'd also throw in Eclipse here as well. It also grants CC immunity to opponents without incapacitating them and no other skill in the game has nothing happen when pressing a button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Skills that lent themselves to some sort of synergy. I am of the belief that many of the Templar skills are good on paper when viewed in isolation, but do not mesh very well together. Our best attack skills put us in close range...but we want to wear light armor because we rely on magicka to survive and the class has no built in mechanic for sustain...but if we raise our magicka pool high then our shields suck. I'd imagine stamina templars have it easier here as weapons and the extra survivability open up more options. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be

If sorcs are perceived to be too strong, I think that has more to do with the overall weakness of the other magicka-based classes are at. NBs probably do the best of the others if only because they have the option to cloak that sometimes enables them to survive in a low TTK environment and opens up options of attack not available to DKs and Templars. But that they aren't morphing the ambush skill (again, ridiculous) and also seem to have some skills not reliably function (cloak, even if overstated, and also cripple doesn't seem to work vs shields), point to a problem that goes beyond the easy and misleading answer that sorcs are OP.

Is that a recent change to Eclipse? Because unless I break eclipse a templar has always been able to keep me eclipsed 100% of the time. There is no immunity given by eclipse and if you break free, well that isn't really "free" it's trading a small chunk of your magicka for a large chunk of their stamina pool. I'm also pretty sure you can't block eclipse because every time I try that against eclipse spammers it never works. Worst case is it drains me out of stamina and forces me to stop attacking so I can break free, giving you a chance to heal up etc.

If you can continually force me to spend my stamina from max range I'm never going to kill you in that short break free immunity window and unless the sorc you're fighting is running a full regen build like me you're going to run him out of stamina and thus be able to use a CC to knock him down and finish him.

That said I think Templar jabs need fixed/buffed, but the BS that was permastunning someone with jabs spam needs to stay dead. I think if Templar offensive capability is buffed too much their latent defensive capability will make them too powerful. I cerainly support some small tweaks to their offensive capabilities as they stand currently.

So you haven't pvp'd in a while and you are claiming to know the current state of the balancing act? Eclipse once broken gives the caster about 10 seconds of immunity from any disabling affects, Eclipse included. So When I put Eclipse on a caster he just sits there with his crapload shield and surrounds himself with mines and waits for the bubble to pop then he starts attacking me again. If I survive the 10 second attack then I get to cast Eclipse again. Meanwhile I cannot hit him with a ranged attack nor can I break through the shield and if I break through the shield then he just recasts it. Yes Eclipse helps to deal with Sorcs a lot but it does not fix the problem everyone is having against them at all.

ToRelax · April 2015

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Yesterday i duelled a v2 sorc... i had no chance killing him. Sure he didnt get me down either, but that just not ok.

Against a vr14 sorc who knows only a little how to duell i dont stand a chance.
I am a good dueller, not one of the best, but quite experienced. I kill most of 2h NBs and most Dks but Sorcs...
Sorcs are OP at least for a magicka Templar. Thats not ok! Nerf sorcs or buff templar!

Just keep eclipse on him and laugh as he does nothing. Depending on your build a healing templar is never going to kill a Sorc. You just don't have the damage potential and Jesus beam isn't going to kill anyone using a damage shield unless they're knocked down and out of stam.

I don't know of a Templar who can kill me 1 v 1 right now but I know many whom I can't kill either. I even know of one that can permanently heal my damage and another sorc all day long and not run out of magicka. I'm fine with that.....I'm not complaining because they're powerful healers and I can't kill them when played by skilled players.

Basically right, but as a Templar I will say this approach is not indefinitely sustainable. The main thing working against the templar is that she has no room for error. If the sorc makes a bad decision or a mistake against a Templar, he can bolt escape away before the templar can burst them down and reset the encounter so to speak. If the sorc wants to quit the encounter because they are bored, he can. When the Templar makes a mistake, she has no recourse to quit/reset the battle and has to contend with a class that actually has burst damage to get a kill.

The other problem with the Eclipse skill is that while it does shut down a sorc's offense if they don't break it, they are granted CC immunity despite *not* being CCed. Which basically means they need not worry about another eclipse or any other form of CC for that matter. Also what absolutely infuriates me, and perhaps it is only me as I don't hear anyone else complain about it, is that Eclipse does *nothing* - repeat nothing - if the target is holding block or is CC immune. In a game where the TTK is ridiculously low, losing action trying to cast a crucial defensive skill is, IMHO, intolerable.

I don't really mind the pressure that I am a Templar am put under in a duel Vs. a sorc. The class is designed to handle itself being immobile whereas Sorc's need the mobility. I accept that. What I would like to make this matchup more palatable are:
Class skills that are reliable to use. Toppling charge is the most obvious culprit here. But I put Eclipse here as well, even after the "fix" that was put in. I want the confidence that something, ideally beneficial, will happen if I press the button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Class skills that follow the basic mechanics in the game. If there is a weaker "hard" CC effect than the final hit of biting jabs, I'd like to know what it is. CC immunity is perhaps the most powerful effect a player can have in Cyrodiil and it *really* bother me that I hand it out like free candy when I use my bread and butter DPS skill. The solution to the perma-stun biting jabs problem was so obviously simple, IMHO it is an indictment of the ZoS development team that they not only were incapable of finding it, but also refuse to implement it after they have been told by every templar, and a fair number of non-templars. Either remove to so-called stun effect from biting jabs completely or have it actually stun the opponent in the manner of other damaging skills with a knockdown/stun effect in the game. I'd also throw in Eclipse here as well. It also grants CC immunity to opponents without incapacitating them and no other skill in the game has nothing happen when pressing a button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Skills that lent themselves to some sort of synergy. I am of the belief that many of the Templar skills are good on paper when viewed in isolation, but do not mesh very well together. Our best attack skills put us in close range...but we want to wear light armor because we rely on magicka to survive and the class has no built in mechanic for sustain...but if we raise our magicka pool high then our shields suck. I'd imagine stamina templars have it easier here as weapons and the extra survivability open up more options. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be

If sorcs are perceived to be too strong, I think that has more to do with the overall weakness of the other magicka-based classes are at. NBs probably do the best of the others if only because they have the option to cloak that sometimes enables them to survive in a low TTK environment and opens up options of attack not available to DKs and Templars. But that they aren't morphing the ambush skill (again, ridiculous) and also seem to have some skills not reliably function (cloak, even if overstated, and also cripple doesn't seem to work vs shields), point to a problem that goes beyond the easy and misleading answer that sorcs are OP.

Is that a recent change to Eclipse? Because unless I break eclipse a templar has always been able to keep me eclipsed 100% of the time. There is no immunity given by eclipse and if you break free, well that isn't really "free" it's trading a small chunk of your magicka for a large chunk of their stamina pool. I'm also pretty sure you can't block eclipse because every time I try that against eclipse spammers it never works. Worst case is it drains me out of stamina and forces me to stop attacking so I can break free, giving you a chance to heal up etc.

If you can continually force me to spend my stamina from max range I'm never going to kill you in that short break free immunity window and unless the sorc you're fighting is running a full regen build like me you're going to run him out of stamina and thus be able to use a CC to knock him down and finish him.

That said I think Templar jabs need fixed/buffed, but the BS that was permastunning someone with jabs spam needs to stay dead. I think if Templar offensive capability is buffed too much their latent defensive capability will make them too powerful. I cerainly support some small tweaks to their offensive capabilities as they stand currently.

So you haven't pvp'd in a while and you are claiming to know the current state of the balancing act? Eclipse once broken gives the caster about 10 seconds of immunity from any disabling affects, Eclipse included. So When I put Eclipse on a caster he just sits there with his crapload shield and surrounds himself with mines and waits for the bubble to pop then he starts attacking me again. If I survive the 10 second attack then I get to cast Eclipse again. Meanwhile I cannot hit him with a ranged attack nor can I break through the shield and if I break through the shield then he just recasts it. Yes Eclipse helps to deal with Sorcs a lot but it does not fix the problem everyone is having against them at all.

It's 8 seconds actually, and only when Eclipse is actually broken.

filmoretub17_ESO · April 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Yesterday i duelled a v2 sorc... i had no chance killing him. Sure he didnt get me down either, but that just not ok.

Against a vr14 sorc who knows only a little how to duell i dont stand a chance.
I am a good dueller, not one of the best, but quite experienced. I kill most of 2h NBs and most Dks but Sorcs...
Sorcs are OP at least for a magicka Templar. Thats not ok! Nerf sorcs or buff templar!

Just keep eclipse on him and laugh as he does nothing. Depending on your build a healing templar is never going to kill a Sorc. You just don't have the damage potential and Jesus beam isn't going to kill anyone using a damage shield unless they're knocked down and out of stam.

I don't know of a Templar who can kill me 1 v 1 right now but I know many whom I can't kill either. I even know of one that can permanently heal my damage and another sorc all day long and not run out of magicka. I'm fine with that.....I'm not complaining because they're powerful healers and I can't kill them when played by skilled players.

Basically right, but as a Templar I will say this approach is not indefinitely sustainable. The main thing working against the templar is that she has no room for error. If the sorc makes a bad decision or a mistake against a Templar, he can bolt escape away before the templar can burst them down and reset the encounter so to speak. If the sorc wants to quit the encounter because they are bored, he can. When the Templar makes a mistake, she has no recourse to quit/reset the battle and has to contend with a class that actually has burst damage to get a kill.

The other problem with the Eclipse skill is that while it does shut down a sorc's offense if they don't break it, they are granted CC immunity despite *not* being CCed. Which basically means they need not worry about another eclipse or any other form of CC for that matter. Also what absolutely infuriates me, and perhaps it is only me as I don't hear anyone else complain about it, is that Eclipse does *nothing* - repeat nothing - if the target is holding block or is CC immune. In a game where the TTK is ridiculously low, losing action trying to cast a crucial defensive skill is, IMHO, intolerable.

I don't really mind the pressure that I am a Templar am put under in a duel Vs. a sorc. The class is designed to handle itself being immobile whereas Sorc's need the mobility. I accept that. What I would like to make this matchup more palatable are:
Class skills that are reliable to use. Toppling charge is the most obvious culprit here. But I put Eclipse here as well, even after the "fix" that was put in. I want the confidence that something, ideally beneficial, will happen if I press the button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Class skills that follow the basic mechanics in the game. If there is a weaker "hard" CC effect than the final hit of biting jabs, I'd like to know what it is. CC immunity is perhaps the most powerful effect a player can have in Cyrodiil and it *really* bother me that I hand it out like free candy when I use my bread and butter DPS skill. The solution to the perma-stun biting jabs problem was so obviously simple, IMHO it is an indictment of the ZoS development team that they not only were incapable of finding it, but also refuse to implement it after they have been told by every templar, and a fair number of non-templars. Either remove to so-called stun effect from biting jabs completely or have it actually stun the opponent in the manner of other damaging skills with a knockdown/stun effect in the game. I'd also throw in Eclipse here as well. It also grants CC immunity to opponents without incapacitating them and no other skill in the game has nothing happen when pressing a button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Skills that lent themselves to some sort of synergy. I am of the belief that many of the Templar skills are good on paper when viewed in isolation, but do not mesh very well together. Our best attack skills put us in close range...but we want to wear light armor because we rely on magicka to survive and the class has no built in mechanic for sustain...but if we raise our magicka pool high then our shields suck. I'd imagine stamina templars have it easier here as weapons and the extra survivability open up more options. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be

If sorcs are perceived to be too strong, I think that has more to do with the overall weakness of the other magicka-based classes are at. NBs probably do the best of the others if only because they have the option to cloak that sometimes enables them to survive in a low TTK environment and opens up options of attack not available to DKs and Templars. But that they aren't morphing the ambush skill (again, ridiculous) and also seem to have some skills not reliably function (cloak, even if overstated, and also cripple doesn't seem to work vs shields), point to a problem that goes beyond the easy and misleading answer that sorcs are OP.

Is that a recent change to Eclipse? Because unless I break eclipse a templar has always been able to keep me eclipsed 100% of the time. There is no immunity given by eclipse and if you break free, well that isn't really "free" it's trading a small chunk of your magicka for a large chunk of their stamina pool. I'm also pretty sure you can't block eclipse because every time I try that against eclipse spammers it never works. Worst case is it drains me out of stamina and forces me to stop attacking so I can break free, giving you a chance to heal up etc.

If you can continually force me to spend my stamina from max range I'm never going to kill you in that short break free immunity window and unless the sorc you're fighting is running a full regen build like me you're going to run him out of stamina and thus be able to use a CC to knock him down and finish him.

That said I think Templar jabs need fixed/buffed, but the BS that was permastunning someone with jabs spam needs to stay dead. I think if Templar offensive capability is buffed too much their latent defensive capability will make them too powerful. I cerainly support some small tweaks to their offensive capabilities as they stand currently.

So you haven't pvp'd in a while and you are claiming to know the current state of the balancing act? Eclipse once broken gives the caster about 10 seconds of immunity from any disabling affects, Eclipse included. So When I put Eclipse on a caster he just sits there with his crapload shield and surrounds himself with mines and waits for the bubble to pop then he starts attacking me again. If I survive the 10 second attack then I get to cast Eclipse again. Meanwhile I cannot hit him with a ranged attack nor can I break through the shield and if I break through the shield then he just recasts it. Yes Eclipse helps to deal with Sorcs a lot but it does not fix the problem everyone is having against them at all.

It's 8 seconds actually, and only when Eclipse is actually broken.

You might be right on the 8 seconds but you are wrong on the broke part. Doesn't matter if it busts on its own or the mage breaks it. It cannot be recast on the target again for 8 seconds. If it did work the way you describe it wouldn't be so bad.

ToRelax · April 2015

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Yesterday i duelled a v2 sorc... i had no chance killing him. Sure he didnt get me down either, but that just not ok.

Against a vr14 sorc who knows only a little how to duell i dont stand a chance.
I am a good dueller, not one of the best, but quite experienced. I kill most of 2h NBs and most Dks but Sorcs...
Sorcs are OP at least for a magicka Templar. Thats not ok! Nerf sorcs or buff templar!

Just keep eclipse on him and laugh as he does nothing. Depending on your build a healing templar is never going to kill a Sorc. You just don't have the damage potential and Jesus beam isn't going to kill anyone using a damage shield unless they're knocked down and out of stam.

I don't know of a Templar who can kill me 1 v 1 right now but I know many whom I can't kill either. I even know of one that can permanently heal my damage and another sorc all day long and not run out of magicka. I'm fine with that.....I'm not complaining because they're powerful healers and I can't kill them when played by skilled players.

Basically right, but as a Templar I will say this approach is not indefinitely sustainable. The main thing working against the templar is that she has no room for error. If the sorc makes a bad decision or a mistake against a Templar, he can bolt escape away before the templar can burst them down and reset the encounter so to speak. If the sorc wants to quit the encounter because they are bored, he can. When the Templar makes a mistake, she has no recourse to quit/reset the battle and has to contend with a class that actually has burst damage to get a kill.

The other problem with the Eclipse skill is that while it does shut down a sorc's offense if they don't break it, they are granted CC immunity despite *not* being CCed. Which basically means they need not worry about another eclipse or any other form of CC for that matter. Also what absolutely infuriates me, and perhaps it is only me as I don't hear anyone else complain about it, is that Eclipse does *nothing* - repeat nothing - if the target is holding block or is CC immune. In a game where the TTK is ridiculously low, losing action trying to cast a crucial defensive skill is, IMHO, intolerable.

I don't really mind the pressure that I am a Templar am put under in a duel Vs. a sorc. The class is designed to handle itself being immobile whereas Sorc's need the mobility. I accept that. What I would like to make this matchup more palatable are:
Class skills that are reliable to use. Toppling charge is the most obvious culprit here. But I put Eclipse here as well, even after the "fix" that was put in. I want the confidence that something, ideally beneficial, will happen if I press the button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Class skills that follow the basic mechanics in the game. If there is a weaker "hard" CC effect than the final hit of biting jabs, I'd like to know what it is. CC immunity is perhaps the most powerful effect a player can have in Cyrodiil and it *really* bother me that I hand it out like free candy when I use my bread and butter DPS skill. The solution to the perma-stun biting jabs problem was so obviously simple, IMHO it is an indictment of the ZoS development team that they not only were incapable of finding it, but also refuse to implement it after they have been told by every templar, and a fair number of non-templars. Either remove to so-called stun effect from biting jabs completely or have it actually stun the opponent in the manner of other damaging skills with a knockdown/stun effect in the game. I'd also throw in Eclipse here as well. It also grants CC immunity to opponents without incapacitating them and no other skill in the game has nothing happen when pressing a button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Skills that lent themselves to some sort of synergy. I am of the belief that many of the Templar skills are good on paper when viewed in isolation, but do not mesh very well together. Our best attack skills put us in close range...but we want to wear light armor because we rely on magicka to survive and the class has no built in mechanic for sustain...but if we raise our magicka pool high then our shields suck. I'd imagine stamina templars have it easier here as weapons and the extra survivability open up more options. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be

If sorcs are perceived to be too strong, I think that has more to do with the overall weakness of the other magicka-based classes are at. NBs probably do the best of the others if only because they have the option to cloak that sometimes enables them to survive in a low TTK environment and opens up options of attack not available to DKs and Templars. But that they aren't morphing the ambush skill (again, ridiculous) and also seem to have some skills not reliably function (cloak, even if overstated, and also cripple doesn't seem to work vs shields), point to a problem that goes beyond the easy and misleading answer that sorcs are OP.

Is that a recent change to Eclipse? Because unless I break eclipse a templar has always been able to keep me eclipsed 100% of the time. There is no immunity given by eclipse and if you break free, well that isn't really "free" it's trading a small chunk of your magicka for a large chunk of their stamina pool. I'm also pretty sure you can't block eclipse because every time I try that against eclipse spammers it never works. Worst case is it drains me out of stamina and forces me to stop attacking so I can break free, giving you a chance to heal up etc.

If you can continually force me to spend my stamina from max range I'm never going to kill you in that short break free immunity window and unless the sorc you're fighting is running a full regen build like me you're going to run him out of stamina and thus be able to use a CC to knock him down and finish him.

That said I think Templar jabs need fixed/buffed, but the BS that was permastunning someone with jabs spam needs to stay dead. I think if Templar offensive capability is buffed too much their latent defensive capability will make them too powerful. I cerainly support some small tweaks to their offensive capabilities as they stand currently.

So you haven't pvp'd in a while and you are claiming to know the current state of the balancing act? Eclipse once broken gives the caster about 10 seconds of immunity from any disabling affects, Eclipse included. So When I put Eclipse on a caster he just sits there with his crapload shield and surrounds himself with mines and waits for the bubble to pop then he starts attacking me again. If I survive the 10 second attack then I get to cast Eclipse again. Meanwhile I cannot hit him with a ranged attack nor can I break through the shield and if I break through the shield then he just recasts it. Yes Eclipse helps to deal with Sorcs a lot but it does not fix the problem everyone is having against them at all.

It's 8 seconds actually, and only when Eclipse is actually broken.

You might be right on the 8 seconds but you are wrong on the broke part. Doesn't matter if it busts on its own or the mage breaks it. It cannot be recast on the target again for 8 seconds. If it did work the way you describe it wouldn't be so bad.

I guess I'll have to test that then, ty.

Sensesfail13 · April 2015

They need their personal heals buffed and their shield stacking nerfed. End of story.

Vis · April 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Seems the only people who think sorcs aren't overpowerd are the people who play them. Yet 40% of the people who play them admit they are too strong and need to be changed somehow. That is an extremely high amount of people who play a class and are willing to admit such things. Normally people who play a class tend to think it is either underpowered or balanced. Very rarely will someone admit when they are playing a class that is too strong. You are lucky on any given pvp game when 10% of the players admit a class is overpowered and yet we have managed to get 40%. That alone speaks volumes.

Are you implying that you actually believe everyone who voted I PLAY A SORC AND THEY ARE OP is actually a Sorc main or even has a Sorc at all?

He's implying whatever most conveniently fits hit point of view.

Vis · April 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Seems the only people who think sorcs aren't overpowerd are the people who play them. Yet 40% of the people who play them admit they are too strong and need to be changed somehow. That is an extremely high amount of people who play a class and are willing to admit such things. Normally people who play a class tend to think it is either underpowered or balanced. Very rarely will someone admit when they are playing a class that is too strong. You are lucky on any given pvp game when 10% of the players admit a class is overpowered and yet we have managed to get 40%. That alone speaks volumes.

Incidentally 85% of all facts are made up. And 65% of all people who quote made up facts are actually idiots.

That has only been proven to be true 73% of the time.

PainfulFAFA · April 2015

Vis wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Seems the only people who think sorcs aren't overpowerd are the people who play them. Yet 40% of the people who play them admit they are too strong and need to be changed somehow. That is an extremely high amount of people who play a class and are willing to admit such things. Normally people who play a class tend to think it is either underpowered or balanced. Very rarely will someone admit when they are playing a class that is too strong. You are lucky on any given pvp game when 10% of the players admit a class is overpowered and yet we have managed to get 40%. That alone speaks volumes.

Incidentally 85% of all facts are made up. And 65% of all people who quote made up facts are actually idiots.

That has only been proven to be true 73% of the time.

140% agree.

cozmon3c_ESO · April 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Yesterday i duelled a v2 sorc... i had no chance killing him. Sure he didnt get me down either, but that just not ok.

Against a vr14 sorc who knows only a little how to duell i dont stand a chance.
I am a good dueller, not one of the best, but quite experienced. I kill most of 2h NBs and most Dks but Sorcs...
Sorcs are OP at least for a magicka Templar. Thats not ok! Nerf sorcs or buff templar!

Just keep eclipse on him and laugh as he does nothing. Depending on your build a healing templar is never going to kill a Sorc. You just don't have the damage potential and Jesus beam isn't going to kill anyone using a damage shield unless they're knocked down and out of stam.

I don't know of a Templar who can kill me 1 v 1 right now but I know many whom I can't kill either. I even know of one that can permanently heal my damage and another sorc all day long and not run out of magicka. I'm fine with that.....I'm not complaining because they're powerful healers and I can't kill them when played by skilled players.

Basically right, but as a Templar I will say this approach is not indefinitely sustainable. The main thing working against the templar is that she has no room for error. If the sorc makes a bad decision or a mistake against a Templar, he can bolt escape away before the templar can burst them down and reset the encounter so to speak. If the sorc wants to quit the encounter because they are bored, he can. When the Templar makes a mistake, she has no recourse to quit/reset the battle and has to contend with a class that actually has burst damage to get a kill.

The other problem with the Eclipse skill is that while it does shut down a sorc's offense if they don't break it, they are granted CC immunity despite *not* being CCed. Which basically means they need not worry about another eclipse or any other form of CC for that matter. Also what absolutely infuriates me, and perhaps it is only me as I don't hear anyone else complain about it, is that Eclipse does *nothing* - repeat nothing - if the target is holding block or is CC immune. In a game where the TTK is ridiculously low, losing action trying to cast a crucial defensive skill is, IMHO, intolerable.

I don't really mind the pressure that I am a Templar am put under in a duel Vs. a sorc. The class is designed to handle itself being immobile whereas Sorc's need the mobility. I accept that. What I would like to make this matchup more palatable are:
Class skills that are reliable to use. Toppling charge is the most obvious culprit here. But I put Eclipse here as well, even after the "fix" that was put in. I want the confidence that something, ideally beneficial, will happen if I press the button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Class skills that follow the basic mechanics in the game. If there is a weaker "hard" CC effect than the final hit of biting jabs, I'd like to know what it is. CC immunity is perhaps the most powerful effect a player can have in Cyrodiil and it *really* bother me that I hand it out like free candy when I use my bread and butter DPS skill. The solution to the perma-stun biting jabs problem was so obviously simple, IMHO it is an indictment of the ZoS development team that they not only were incapable of finding it, but also refuse to implement it after they have been told by every templar, and a fair number of non-templars. Either remove to so-called stun effect from biting jabs completely or have it actually stun the opponent in the manner of other damaging skills with a knockdown/stun effect in the game. I'd also throw in Eclipse here as well. It also grants CC immunity to opponents without incapacitating them and no other skill in the game has nothing happen when pressing a button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Skills that lent themselves to some sort of synergy. I am of the belief that many of the Templar skills are good on paper when viewed in isolation, but do not mesh very well together. Our best attack skills put us in close range...but we want to wear light armor because we rely on magicka to survive and the class has no built in mechanic for sustain...but if we raise our magicka pool high then our shields suck. I'd imagine stamina templars have it easier here as weapons and the extra survivability open up more options. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be

If sorcs are perceived to be too strong, I think that has more to do with the overall weakness of the other magicka-based classes are at. NBs probably do the best of the others if only because they have the option to cloak that sometimes enables them to survive in a low TTK environment and opens up options of attack not available to DKs and Templars. But that they aren't morphing the ambush skill (again, ridiculous) and also seem to have some skills not reliably function (cloak, even if overstated, and also cripple doesn't seem to work vs shields), point to a problem that goes beyond the easy and misleading answer that sorcs are OP.

Is that a recent change to Eclipse? Because unless I break eclipse a templar has always been able to keep me eclipsed 100% of the time. There is no immunity given by eclipse and if you break free, well that isn't really "free" it's trading a small chunk of your magicka for a large chunk of their stamina pool. I'm also pretty sure you can't block eclipse because every time I try that against eclipse spammers it never works. Worst case is it drains me out of stamina and forces me to stop attacking so I can break free, giving you a chance to heal up etc.

If you can continually force me to spend my stamina from max range I'm never going to kill you in that short break free immunity window and unless the sorc you're fighting is running a full regen build like me you're going to run him out of stamina and thus be able to use a CC to knock him down and finish him.

That said I think Templar jabs need fixed/buffed, but the BS that was permastunning someone with jabs spam needs to stay dead. I think if Templar offensive capability is buffed too much their latent defensive capability will make them too powerful. I cerainly support some small tweaks to their offensive capabilities as they stand currently.

I dont think Jabs needs a buff, there are a couple people out there that can bring you from full life and shields to dead with one jabs attack, im looking at you essa. it can be done and has been done.

Detector · April 2015

ZOS, when will be balance in pvp?! Nerf sorcs (nerf streak or shields) and all will be true.

Ezareth · April 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Yesterday i duelled a v2 sorc... i had no chance killing him. Sure he didnt get me down either, but that just not ok.

Against a vr14 sorc who knows only a little how to duell i dont stand a chance.
I am a good dueller, not one of the best, but quite experienced. I kill most of 2h NBs and most Dks but Sorcs...
Sorcs are OP at least for a magicka Templar. Thats not ok! Nerf sorcs or buff templar!

Just keep eclipse on him and laugh as he does nothing. Depending on your build a healing templar is never going to kill a Sorc. You just don't have the damage potential and Jesus beam isn't going to kill anyone using a damage shield unless they're knocked down and out of stam.

I don't know of a Templar who can kill me 1 v 1 right now but I know many whom I can't kill either. I even know of one that can permanently heal my damage and another sorc all day long and not run out of magicka. I'm fine with that.....I'm not complaining because they're powerful healers and I can't kill them when played by skilled players.

Basically right, but as a Templar I will say this approach is not indefinitely sustainable. The main thing working against the templar is that she has no room for error. If the sorc makes a bad decision or a mistake against a Templar, he can bolt escape away before the templar can burst them down and reset the encounter so to speak. If the sorc wants to quit the encounter because they are bored, he can. When the Templar makes a mistake, she has no recourse to quit/reset the battle and has to contend with a class that actually has burst damage to get a kill.

The other problem with the Eclipse skill is that while it does shut down a sorc's offense if they don't break it, they are granted CC immunity despite *not* being CCed. Which basically means they need not worry about another eclipse or any other form of CC for that matter. Also what absolutely infuriates me, and perhaps it is only me as I don't hear anyone else complain about it, is that Eclipse does *nothing* - repeat nothing - if the target is holding block or is CC immune. In a game where the TTK is ridiculously low, losing action trying to cast a crucial defensive skill is, IMHO, intolerable.

I don't really mind the pressure that I am a Templar am put under in a duel Vs. a sorc. The class is designed to handle itself being immobile whereas Sorc's need the mobility. I accept that. What I would like to make this matchup more palatable are:
Class skills that are reliable to use. Toppling charge is the most obvious culprit here. But I put Eclipse here as well, even after the "fix" that was put in. I want the confidence that something, ideally beneficial, will happen if I press the button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Class skills that follow the basic mechanics in the game. If there is a weaker "hard" CC effect than the final hit of biting jabs, I'd like to know what it is. CC immunity is perhaps the most powerful effect a player can have in Cyrodiil and it *really* bother me that I hand it out like free candy when I use my bread and butter DPS skill. The solution to the perma-stun biting jabs problem was so obviously simple, IMHO it is an indictment of the ZoS development team that they not only were incapable of finding it, but also refuse to implement it after they have been told by every templar, and a fair number of non-templars. Either remove to so-called stun effect from biting jabs completely or have it actually stun the opponent in the manner of other damaging skills with a knockdown/stun effect in the game. I'd also throw in Eclipse here as well. It also grants CC immunity to opponents without incapacitating them and no other skill in the game has nothing happen when pressing a button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Skills that lent themselves to some sort of synergy. I am of the belief that many of the Templar skills are good on paper when viewed in isolation, but do not mesh very well together. Our best attack skills put us in close range...but we want to wear light armor because we rely on magicka to survive and the class has no built in mechanic for sustain...but if we raise our magicka pool high then our shields suck. I'd imagine stamina templars have it easier here as weapons and the extra survivability open up more options. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be

If sorcs are perceived to be too strong, I think that has more to do with the overall weakness of the other magicka-based classes are at. NBs probably do the best of the others if only because they have the option to cloak that sometimes enables them to survive in a low TTK environment and opens up options of attack not available to DKs and Templars. But that they aren't morphing the ambush skill (again, ridiculous) and also seem to have some skills not reliably function (cloak, even if overstated, and also cripple doesn't seem to work vs shields), point to a problem that goes beyond the easy and misleading answer that sorcs are OP.

Is that a recent change to Eclipse? Because unless I break eclipse a templar has always been able to keep me eclipsed 100% of the time. There is no immunity given by eclipse and if you break free, well that isn't really "free" it's trading a small chunk of your magicka for a large chunk of their stamina pool. I'm also pretty sure you can't block eclipse because every time I try that against eclipse spammers it never works. Worst case is it drains me out of stamina and forces me to stop attacking so I can break free, giving you a chance to heal up etc.

If you can continually force me to spend my stamina from max range I'm never going to kill you in that short break free immunity window and unless the sorc you're fighting is running a full regen build like me you're going to run him out of stamina and thus be able to use a CC to knock him down and finish him.

That said I think Templar jabs need fixed/buffed, but the BS that was permastunning someone with jabs spam needs to stay dead. I think if Templar offensive capability is buffed too much their latent defensive capability will make them too powerful. I cerainly support some small tweaks to their offensive capabilities as they stand currently.

So you haven't pvp'd in a while and you are claiming to know the current state of the balancing act? Eclipse once broken gives the caster about 10 seconds of immunity from any disabling affects, Eclipse included. So When I put Eclipse on a caster he just sits there with his crapload shield and surrounds himself with mines and waits for the bubble to pop then he starts attacking me again. If I survive the 10 second attack then I get to cast Eclipse again. Meanwhile I cannot hit him with a ranged attack nor can I break through the shield and if I break through the shield then he just recasts it. Yes Eclipse helps to deal with Sorcs a lot but it does not fix the problem everyone is having against them at all.

It's 8 seconds actually, and only when Eclipse is actually broken.

I PvP every single day. I don't however test every single mechanic of every ability in the game because ZoS loves to make stealth changes and not mention them in the patch notes.

As of at least 2.0.5 a templar could keep you permanently eclipsed unless you break free or were given CC immunity from breakfree or another ability. Eclipse doesn't give CC immunity (or it didn't) which is why I asked if that was a recent change.

I thought break free was 8 seconds but people are saying it is 5 seconds. I need to test this again to see which it is, but either way Eclipse is an amazing stamina drain for sorcs.

Lava_Croft · April 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Yesterday i duelled a v2 sorc... i had no chance killing him. Sure he didnt get me down either, but that just not ok.

Against a vr14 sorc who knows only a little how to duell i dont stand a chance.
I am a good dueller, not one of the best, but quite experienced. I kill most of 2h NBs and most Dks but Sorcs...
Sorcs are OP at least for a magicka Templar. Thats not ok! Nerf sorcs or buff templar!

Just keep eclipse on him and laugh as he does nothing. Depending on your build a healing templar is never going to kill a Sorc. You just don't have the damage potential and Jesus beam isn't going to kill anyone using a damage shield unless they're knocked down and out of stam.

I don't know of a Templar who can kill me 1 v 1 right now but I know many whom I can't kill either. I even know of one that can permanently heal my damage and another sorc all day long and not run out of magicka. I'm fine with that.....I'm not complaining because they're powerful healers and I can't kill them when played by skilled players.

Basically right, but as a Templar I will say this approach is not indefinitely sustainable. The main thing working against the templar is that she has no room for error. If the sorc makes a bad decision or a mistake against a Templar, he can bolt escape away before the templar can burst them down and reset the encounter so to speak. If the sorc wants to quit the encounter because they are bored, he can. When the Templar makes a mistake, she has no recourse to quit/reset the battle and has to contend with a class that actually has burst damage to get a kill.

The other problem with the Eclipse skill is that while it does shut down a sorc's offense if they don't break it, they are granted CC immunity despite *not* being CCed. Which basically means they need not worry about another eclipse or any other form of CC for that matter. Also what absolutely infuriates me, and perhaps it is only me as I don't hear anyone else complain about it, is that Eclipse does *nothing* - repeat nothing - if the target is holding block or is CC immune. In a game where the TTK is ridiculously low, losing action trying to cast a crucial defensive skill is, IMHO, intolerable.

I don't really mind the pressure that I am a Templar am put under in a duel Vs. a sorc. The class is designed to handle itself being immobile whereas Sorc's need the mobility. I accept that. What I would like to make this matchup more palatable are:
Class skills that are reliable to use. Toppling charge is the most obvious culprit here. But I put Eclipse here as well, even after the "fix" that was put in. I want the confidence that something, ideally beneficial, will happen if I press the button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Class skills that follow the basic mechanics in the game. If there is a weaker "hard" CC effect than the final hit of biting jabs, I'd like to know what it is. CC immunity is perhaps the most powerful effect a player can have in Cyrodiil and it *really* bother me that I hand it out like free candy when I use my bread and butter DPS skill. The solution to the perma-stun biting jabs problem was so obviously simple, IMHO it is an indictment of the ZoS development team that they not only were incapable of finding it, but also refuse to implement it after they have been told by every templar, and a fair number of non-templars. Either remove to so-called stun effect from biting jabs completely or have it actually stun the opponent in the manner of other damaging skills with a knockdown/stun effect in the game. I'd also throw in Eclipse here as well. It also grants CC immunity to opponents without incapacitating them and no other skill in the game has nothing happen when pressing a button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Skills that lent themselves to some sort of synergy. I am of the belief that many of the Templar skills are good on paper when viewed in isolation, but do not mesh very well together. Our best attack skills put us in close range...but we want to wear light armor because we rely on magicka to survive and the class has no built in mechanic for sustain...but if we raise our magicka pool high then our shields suck. I'd imagine stamina templars have it easier here as weapons and the extra survivability open up more options. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be

If sorcs are perceived to be too strong, I think that has more to do with the overall weakness of the other magicka-based classes are at. NBs probably do the best of the others if only because they have the option to cloak that sometimes enables them to survive in a low TTK environment and opens up options of attack not available to DKs and Templars. But that they aren't morphing the ambush skill (again, ridiculous) and also seem to have some skills not reliably function (cloak, even if overstated, and also cripple doesn't seem to work vs shields), point to a problem that goes beyond the easy and misleading answer that sorcs are OP.

Is that a recent change to Eclipse? Because unless I break eclipse a templar has always been able to keep me eclipsed 100% of the time. There is no immunity given by eclipse and if you break free, well that isn't really "free" it's trading a small chunk of your magicka for a large chunk of their stamina pool. I'm also pretty sure you can't block eclipse because every time I try that against eclipse spammers it never works. Worst case is it drains me out of stamina and forces me to stop attacking so I can break free, giving you a chance to heal up etc.

If you can continually force me to spend my stamina from max range I'm never going to kill you in that short break free immunity window and unless the sorc you're fighting is running a full regen build like me you're going to run him out of stamina and thus be able to use a CC to knock him down and finish him.

That said I think Templar jabs need fixed/buffed, but the BS that was permastunning someone with jabs spam needs to stay dead. I think if Templar offensive capability is buffed too much their latent defensive capability will make them too powerful. I cerainly support some small tweaks to their offensive capabilities as they stand currently.

So you haven't pvp'd in a while and you are claiming to know the current state of the balancing act? Eclipse once broken gives the caster about 10 seconds of immunity from any disabling affects, Eclipse included. So When I put Eclipse on a caster he just sits there with his crapload shield and surrounds himself with mines and waits for the bubble to pop then he starts attacking me again. If I survive the 10 second attack then I get to cast Eclipse again. Meanwhile I cannot hit him with a ranged attack nor can I break through the shield and if I break through the shield then he just recasts it. Yes Eclipse helps to deal with Sorcs a lot but it does not fix the problem everyone is having against them at all.

It's 8 seconds actually, and only when Eclipse is actually broken.

I PvP every single day. I don't however test every single mechanic of every ability in the game because ZoS loves to make stealth changes and not mention them in the patch notes.

As of at least 2.0.5 a templar could keep you permanently eclipsed unless you break free or were given CC immunity from breakfree or another ability. Eclipse doesn't give CC immunity (or it didn't) which is why I asked if that was a recent change.

I thought break free was 8 seconds but people are saying it is 5 seconds. I need to test this again to see which it is, but either way Eclipse is an amazing stamina drain for sorcs.

To add to the confusion, I think it's actually 6 seconds.

Tankqull · April 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Yesterday i duelled a v2 sorc... i had no chance killing him. Sure he didnt get me down either, but that just not ok.

Against a vr14 sorc who knows only a little how to duell i dont stand a chance.
I am a good dueller, not one of the best, but quite experienced. I kill most of 2h NBs and most Dks but Sorcs...
Sorcs are OP at least for a magicka Templar. Thats not ok! Nerf sorcs or buff templar!

Just keep eclipse on him and laugh as he does nothing. Depending on your build a healing templar is never going to kill a Sorc. You just don't have the damage potential and Jesus beam isn't going to kill anyone using a damage shield unless they're knocked down and out of stam.

I don't know of a Templar who can kill me 1 v 1 right now but I know many whom I can't kill either. I even know of one that can permanently heal my damage and another sorc all day long and not run out of magicka. I'm fine with that.....I'm not complaining because they're powerful healers and I can't kill them when played by skilled players.

Basically right, but as a Templar I will say this approach is not indefinitely sustainable. The main thing working against the templar is that she has no room for error. If the sorc makes a bad decision or a mistake against a Templar, he can bolt escape away before the templar can burst them down and reset the encounter so to speak. If the sorc wants to quit the encounter because they are bored, he can. When the Templar makes a mistake, she has no recourse to quit/reset the battle and has to contend with a class that actually has burst damage to get a kill.

The other problem with the Eclipse skill is that while it does shut down a sorc's offense if they don't break it, they are granted CC immunity despite *not* being CCed. Which basically means they need not worry about another eclipse or any other form of CC for that matter. Also what absolutely infuriates me, and perhaps it is only me as I don't hear anyone else complain about it, is that Eclipse does *nothing* - repeat nothing - if the target is holding block or is CC immune. In a game where the TTK is ridiculously low, losing action trying to cast a crucial defensive skill is, IMHO, intolerable.

I don't really mind the pressure that I am a Templar am put under in a duel Vs. a sorc. The class is designed to handle itself being immobile whereas Sorc's need the mobility. I accept that. What I would like to make this matchup more palatable are:
Class skills that are reliable to use. Toppling charge is the most obvious culprit here. But I put Eclipse here as well, even after the "fix" that was put in. I want the confidence that something, ideally beneficial, will happen if I press the button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Class skills that follow the basic mechanics in the game. If there is a weaker "hard" CC effect than the final hit of biting jabs, I'd like to know what it is. CC immunity is perhaps the most powerful effect a player can have in Cyrodiil and it *really* bother me that I hand it out like free candy when I use my bread and butter DPS skill. The solution to the perma-stun biting jabs problem was so obviously simple, IMHO it is an indictment of the ZoS development team that they not only were incapable of finding it, but also refuse to implement it after they have been told by every templar, and a fair number of non-templars. Either remove to so-called stun effect from biting jabs completely or have it actually stun the opponent in the manner of other damaging skills with a knockdown/stun effect in the game. I'd also throw in Eclipse here as well. It also grants CC immunity to opponents without incapacitating them and no other skill in the game has nothing happen when pressing a button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Skills that lent themselves to some sort of synergy. I am of the belief that many of the Templar skills are good on paper when viewed in isolation, but do not mesh very well together. Our best attack skills put us in close range...but we want to wear light armor because we rely on magicka to survive and the class has no built in mechanic for sustain...but if we raise our magicka pool high then our shields suck. I'd imagine stamina templars have it easier here as weapons and the extra survivability open up more options. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be

If sorcs are perceived to be too strong, I think that has more to do with the overall weakness of the other magicka-based classes are at. NBs probably do the best of the others if only because they have the option to cloak that sometimes enables them to survive in a low TTK environment and opens up options of attack not available to DKs and Templars. But that they aren't morphing the ambush skill (again, ridiculous) and also seem to have some skills not reliably function (cloak, even if overstated, and also cripple doesn't seem to work vs shields), point to a problem that goes beyond the easy and misleading answer that sorcs are OP.

Is that a recent change to Eclipse? Because unless I break eclipse a templar has always been able to keep me eclipsed 100% of the time. There is no immunity given by eclipse and if you break free, well that isn't really "free" it's trading a small chunk of your magicka for a large chunk of their stamina pool. I'm also pretty sure you can't block eclipse because every time I try that against eclipse spammers it never works. Worst case is it drains me out of stamina and forces me to stop attacking so I can break free, giving you a chance to heal up etc.

If you can continually force me to spend my stamina from max range I'm never going to kill you in that short break free immunity window and unless the sorc you're fighting is running a full regen build like me you're going to run him out of stamina and thus be able to use a CC to knock him down and finish him.

That said I think Templar jabs need fixed/buffed, but the BS that was permastunning someone with jabs spam needs to stay dead. I think if Templar offensive capability is buffed too much their latent defensive capability will make them too powerful. I cerainly support some small tweaks to their offensive capabilities as they stand currently.

So you haven't pvp'd in a while and you are claiming to know the current state of the balancing act? Eclipse once broken gives the caster about 10 seconds of immunity from any disabling affects, Eclipse included. So When I put Eclipse on a caster he just sits there with his crapload shield and surrounds himself with mines and waits for the bubble to pop then he starts attacking me again. If I survive the 10 second attack then I get to cast Eclipse again. Meanwhile I cannot hit him with a ranged attack nor can I break through the shield and if I break through the shield then he just recasts it. Yes Eclipse helps to deal with Sorcs a lot but it does not fix the problem everyone is having against them at all.

It's 8 seconds actually, and only when Eclipse is actually broken.

I PvP every single day. I don't however test every single mechanic of every ability in the game because ZoS loves to make stealth changes and not mention them in the patch notes.

As of at least 2.0.5 a templar could keep you permanently eclipsed unless you break free or were given CC immunity from breakfree or another ability. Eclipse doesn't give CC immunity (or it didn't) which is why I asked if that was a recent change.

I thought break free was 8 seconds but people are saying it is 5 seconds. I need to test this again to see which it is, but either way Eclipse is an amazing stamina drain for sorcs.

its definatly not changed - was chain total darked for nearly a minute thx to a bug not leaving stealth wich results in no stam to break free.

filmoretub17_ESO · April 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Yesterday i duelled a v2 sorc... i had no chance killing him. Sure he didnt get me down either, but that just not ok.

Against a vr14 sorc who knows only a little how to duell i dont stand a chance.
I am a good dueller, not one of the best, but quite experienced. I kill most of 2h NBs and most Dks but Sorcs...
Sorcs are OP at least for a magicka Templar. Thats not ok! Nerf sorcs or buff templar!

Just keep eclipse on him and laugh as he does nothing. Depending on your build a healing templar is never going to kill a Sorc. You just don't have the damage potential and Jesus beam isn't going to kill anyone using a damage shield unless they're knocked down and out of stam.

I don't know of a Templar who can kill me 1 v 1 right now but I know many whom I can't kill either. I even know of one that can permanently heal my damage and another sorc all day long and not run out of magicka. I'm fine with that.....I'm not complaining because they're powerful healers and I can't kill them when played by skilled players.

Basically right, but as a Templar I will say this approach is not indefinitely sustainable. The main thing working against the templar is that she has no room for error. If the sorc makes a bad decision or a mistake against a Templar, he can bolt escape away before the templar can burst them down and reset the encounter so to speak. If the sorc wants to quit the encounter because they are bored, he can. When the Templar makes a mistake, she has no recourse to quit/reset the battle and has to contend with a class that actually has burst damage to get a kill.

The other problem with the Eclipse skill is that while it does shut down a sorc's offense if they don't break it, they are granted CC immunity despite *not* being CCed. Which basically means they need not worry about another eclipse or any other form of CC for that matter. Also what absolutely infuriates me, and perhaps it is only me as I don't hear anyone else complain about it, is that Eclipse does *nothing* - repeat nothing - if the target is holding block or is CC immune. In a game where the TTK is ridiculously low, losing action trying to cast a crucial defensive skill is, IMHO, intolerable.

I don't really mind the pressure that I am a Templar am put under in a duel Vs. a sorc. The class is designed to handle itself being immobile whereas Sorc's need the mobility. I accept that. What I would like to make this matchup more palatable are:
Class skills that are reliable to use. Toppling charge is the most obvious culprit here. But I put Eclipse here as well, even after the "fix" that was put in. I want the confidence that something, ideally beneficial, will happen if I press the button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Class skills that follow the basic mechanics in the game. If there is a weaker "hard" CC effect than the final hit of biting jabs, I'd like to know what it is. CC immunity is perhaps the most powerful effect a player can have in Cyrodiil and it *really* bother me that I hand it out like free candy when I use my bread and butter DPS skill. The solution to the perma-stun biting jabs problem was so obviously simple, IMHO it is an indictment of the ZoS development team that they not only were incapable of finding it, but also refuse to implement it after they have been told by every templar, and a fair number of non-templars. Either remove to so-called stun effect from biting jabs completely or have it actually stun the opponent in the manner of other damaging skills with a knockdown/stun effect in the game. I'd also throw in Eclipse here as well. It also grants CC immunity to opponents without incapacitating them and no other skill in the game has nothing happen when pressing a button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Skills that lent themselves to some sort of synergy. I am of the belief that many of the Templar skills are good on paper when viewed in isolation, but do not mesh very well together. Our best attack skills put us in close range...but we want to wear light armor because we rely on magicka to survive and the class has no built in mechanic for sustain...but if we raise our magicka pool high then our shields suck. I'd imagine stamina templars have it easier here as weapons and the extra survivability open up more options. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be

If sorcs are perceived to be too strong, I think that has more to do with the overall weakness of the other magicka-based classes are at. NBs probably do the best of the others if only because they have the option to cloak that sometimes enables them to survive in a low TTK environment and opens up options of attack not available to DKs and Templars. But that they aren't morphing the ambush skill (again, ridiculous) and also seem to have some skills not reliably function (cloak, even if overstated, and also cripple doesn't seem to work vs shields), point to a problem that goes beyond the easy and misleading answer that sorcs are OP.

Is that a recent change to Eclipse? Because unless I break eclipse a templar has always been able to keep me eclipsed 100% of the time. There is no immunity given by eclipse and if you break free, well that isn't really "free" it's trading a small chunk of your magicka for a large chunk of their stamina pool. I'm also pretty sure you can't block eclipse because every time I try that against eclipse spammers it never works. Worst case is it drains me out of stamina and forces me to stop attacking so I can break free, giving you a chance to heal up etc.

If you can continually force me to spend my stamina from max range I'm never going to kill you in that short break free immunity window and unless the sorc you're fighting is running a full regen build like me you're going to run him out of stamina and thus be able to use a CC to knock him down and finish him.

That said I think Templar jabs need fixed/buffed, but the BS that was permastunning someone with jabs spam needs to stay dead. I think if Templar offensive capability is buffed too much their latent defensive capability will make them too powerful. I cerainly support some small tweaks to their offensive capabilities as they stand currently.

So you haven't pvp'd in a while and you are claiming to know the current state of the balancing act? Eclipse once broken gives the caster about 10 seconds of immunity from any disabling affects, Eclipse included. So When I put Eclipse on a caster he just sits there with his crapload shield and surrounds himself with mines and waits for the bubble to pop then he starts attacking me again. If I survive the 10 second attack then I get to cast Eclipse again. Meanwhile I cannot hit him with a ranged attack nor can I break through the shield and if I break through the shield then he just recasts it. Yes Eclipse helps to deal with Sorcs a lot but it does not fix the problem everyone is having against them at all.

It's 8 seconds actually, and only when Eclipse is actually broken.

I PvP every single day. I don't however test every single mechanic of every ability in the game because ZoS loves to make stealth changes and not mention them in the patch notes.

As of at least 2.0.5 a templar could keep you permanently eclipsed unless you break free or were given CC immunity from breakfree or another ability. Eclipse doesn't give CC immunity (or it didn't) which is why I asked if that was a recent change.

I thought break free was 8 seconds but people are saying it is 5 seconds. I need to test this again to see which it is, but either way Eclipse is an amazing stamina drain for sorcs.

its definatly not changed - was chain total darked for nearly a minute thx to a bug not leaving stealth wich results in no stam to break free.

Well IDK what to say because I play a Templar and total dark is my favorite ability and I can never recast it on the same target once it goes down. If you want we can test it I'm in EP on Chilrend and Azura with him right now. Send me a pm with your name and ill add you as friend.

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Seems the only people who think sorcs aren't overpowerd are the people who play them. Yet 40% of the people who play them admit they are too strong and need to be changed somehow. That is an extremely high amount of people who play a class and are willing to admit such things. Normally people who play a class tend to think it is either underpowered or balanced. Very rarely will someone admit when they are playing a class that is too strong. You are lucky on any given pvp game when 10% of the players admit a class is overpowered and yet we have managed to get 40%. That alone speaks volumes.

Incidentally 85% of all facts are made up. And 65% of all people who quote made up facts are actually idiots.

i see more people opposing nerfing sorcs than supporting.

Ezareth · April 2015

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Yesterday i duelled a v2 sorc... i had no chance killing him. Sure he didnt get me down either, but that just not ok.

Against a vr14 sorc who knows only a little how to duell i dont stand a chance.
I am a good dueller, not one of the best, but quite experienced. I kill most of 2h NBs and most Dks but Sorcs...
Sorcs are OP at least for a magicka Templar. Thats not ok! Nerf sorcs or buff templar!

Just keep eclipse on him and laugh as he does nothing. Depending on your build a healing templar is never going to kill a Sorc. You just don't have the damage potential and Jesus beam isn't going to kill anyone using a damage shield unless they're knocked down and out of stam.

I don't know of a Templar who can kill me 1 v 1 right now but I know many whom I can't kill either. I even know of one that can permanently heal my damage and another sorc all day long and not run out of magicka. I'm fine with that.....I'm not complaining because they're powerful healers and I can't kill them when played by skilled players.

Basically right, but as a Templar I will say this approach is not indefinitely sustainable. The main thing working against the templar is that she has no room for error. If the sorc makes a bad decision or a mistake against a Templar, he can bolt escape away before the templar can burst them down and reset the encounter so to speak. If the sorc wants to quit the encounter because they are bored, he can. When the Templar makes a mistake, she has no recourse to quit/reset the battle and has to contend with a class that actually has burst damage to get a kill.

The other problem with the Eclipse skill is that while it does shut down a sorc's offense if they don't break it, they are granted CC immunity despite *not* being CCed. Which basically means they need not worry about another eclipse or any other form of CC for that matter. Also what absolutely infuriates me, and perhaps it is only me as I don't hear anyone else complain about it, is that Eclipse does *nothing* - repeat nothing - if the target is holding block or is CC immune. In a game where the TTK is ridiculously low, losing action trying to cast a crucial defensive skill is, IMHO, intolerable.

I don't really mind the pressure that I am a Templar am put under in a duel Vs. a sorc. The class is designed to handle itself being immobile whereas Sorc's need the mobility. I accept that. What I would like to make this matchup more palatable are:
Class skills that are reliable to use. Toppling charge is the most obvious culprit here. But I put Eclipse here as well, even after the "fix" that was put in. I want the confidence that something, ideally beneficial, will happen if I press the button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Class skills that follow the basic mechanics in the game. If there is a weaker "hard" CC effect than the final hit of biting jabs, I'd like to know what it is. CC immunity is perhaps the most powerful effect a player can have in Cyrodiil and it *really* bother me that I hand it out like free candy when I use my bread and butter DPS skill. The solution to the perma-stun biting jabs problem was so obviously simple, IMHO it is an indictment of the ZoS development team that they not only were incapable of finding it, but also refuse to implement it after they have been told by every templar, and a fair number of non-templars. Either remove to so-called stun effect from biting jabs completely or have it actually stun the opponent in the manner of other damaging skills with a knockdown/stun effect in the game. I'd also throw in Eclipse here as well. It also grants CC immunity to opponents without incapacitating them and no other skill in the game has nothing happen when pressing a button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Skills that lent themselves to some sort of synergy. I am of the belief that many of the Templar skills are good on paper when viewed in isolation, but do not mesh very well together. Our best attack skills put us in close range...but we want to wear light armor because we rely on magicka to survive and the class has no built in mechanic for sustain...but if we raise our magicka pool high then our shields suck. I'd imagine stamina templars have it easier here as weapons and the extra survivability open up more options. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be

If sorcs are perceived to be too strong, I think that has more to do with the overall weakness of the other magicka-based classes are at. NBs probably do the best of the others if only because they have the option to cloak that sometimes enables them to survive in a low TTK environment and opens up options of attack not available to DKs and Templars. But that they aren't morphing the ambush skill (again, ridiculous) and also seem to have some skills not reliably function (cloak, even if overstated, and also cripple doesn't seem to work vs shields), point to a problem that goes beyond the easy and misleading answer that sorcs are OP.

Is that a recent change to Eclipse? Because unless I break eclipse a templar has always been able to keep me eclipsed 100% of the time. There is no immunity given by eclipse and if you break free, well that isn't really "free" it's trading a small chunk of your magicka for a large chunk of their stamina pool. I'm also pretty sure you can't block eclipse because every time I try that against eclipse spammers it never works. Worst case is it drains me out of stamina and forces me to stop attacking so I can break free, giving you a chance to heal up etc.

If you can continually force me to spend my stamina from max range I'm never going to kill you in that short break free immunity window and unless the sorc you're fighting is running a full regen build like me you're going to run him out of stamina and thus be able to use a CC to knock him down and finish him.

That said I think Templar jabs need fixed/buffed, but the BS that was permastunning someone with jabs spam needs to stay dead. I think if Templar offensive capability is buffed too much their latent defensive capability will make them too powerful. I cerainly support some small tweaks to their offensive capabilities as they stand currently.

So you haven't pvp'd in a while and you are claiming to know the current state of the balancing act? Eclipse once broken gives the caster about 10 seconds of immunity from any disabling affects, Eclipse included. So When I put Eclipse on a caster he just sits there with his crapload shield and surrounds himself with mines and waits for the bubble to pop then he starts attacking me again. If I survive the 10 second attack then I get to cast Eclipse again. Meanwhile I cannot hit him with a ranged attack nor can I break through the shield and if I break through the shield then he just recasts it. Yes Eclipse helps to deal with Sorcs a lot but it does not fix the problem everyone is having against them at all.

It's 8 seconds actually, and only when Eclipse is actually broken.

I PvP every single day. I don't however test every single mechanic of every ability in the game because ZoS loves to make stealth changes and not mention them in the patch notes.

As of at least 2.0.5 a templar could keep you permanently eclipsed unless you break free or were given CC immunity from breakfree or another ability. Eclipse doesn't give CC immunity (or it didn't) which is why I asked if that was a recent change.

I thought break free was 8 seconds but people are saying it is 5 seconds. I need to test this again to see which it is, but either way Eclipse is an amazing stamina drain for sorcs.

its definatly not changed - was chain total darked for nearly a minute thx to a bug not leaving stealth wich results in no stam to break free.

Well IDK what to say because I play a Templar and total dark is my favorite ability and I can never recast it on the same target once it goes down. If you want we can test it I'm in EP on Chilrend and Azura with him right now. Send me a pm with your name and ill add you as friend.

I was just watching some of my footage of a templar chain casting this on me. The break free is definitely 8 seconds and im not granted immunity (Black wisps floating around you) if I don't break free.

cozmon3c_ESO · April 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Yesterday i duelled a v2 sorc... i had no chance killing him. Sure he didnt get me down either, but that just not ok.

Against a vr14 sorc who knows only a little how to duell i dont stand a chance.
I am a good dueller, not one of the best, but quite experienced. I kill most of 2h NBs and most Dks but Sorcs...
Sorcs are OP at least for a magicka Templar. Thats not ok! Nerf sorcs or buff templar!

Just keep eclipse on him and laugh as he does nothing. Depending on your build a healing templar is never going to kill a Sorc. You just don't have the damage potential and Jesus beam isn't going to kill anyone using a damage shield unless they're knocked down and out of stam.

I don't know of a Templar who can kill me 1 v 1 right now but I know many whom I can't kill either. I even know of one that can permanently heal my damage and another sorc all day long and not run out of magicka. I'm fine with that.....I'm not complaining because they're powerful healers and I can't kill them when played by skilled players.

Basically right, but as a Templar I will say this approach is not indefinitely sustainable. The main thing working against the templar is that she has no room for error. If the sorc makes a bad decision or a mistake against a Templar, he can bolt escape away before the templar can burst them down and reset the encounter so to speak. If the sorc wants to quit the encounter because they are bored, he can. When the Templar makes a mistake, she has no recourse to quit/reset the battle and has to contend with a class that actually has burst damage to get a kill.

The other problem with the Eclipse skill is that while it does shut down a sorc's offense if they don't break it, they are granted CC immunity despite *not* being CCed. Which basically means they need not worry about another eclipse or any other form of CC for that matter. Also what absolutely infuriates me, and perhaps it is only me as I don't hear anyone else complain about it, is that Eclipse does *nothing* - repeat nothing - if the target is holding block or is CC immune. In a game where the TTK is ridiculously low, losing action trying to cast a crucial defensive skill is, IMHO, intolerable.

I don't really mind the pressure that I am a Templar am put under in a duel Vs. a sorc. The class is designed to handle itself being immobile whereas Sorc's need the mobility. I accept that. What I would like to make this matchup more palatable are:
Class skills that are reliable to use. Toppling charge is the most obvious culprit here. But I put Eclipse here as well, even after the "fix" that was put in. I want the confidence that something, ideally beneficial, will happen if I press the button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Class skills that follow the basic mechanics in the game. If there is a weaker "hard" CC effect than the final hit of biting jabs, I'd like to know what it is. CC immunity is perhaps the most powerful effect a player can have in Cyrodiil and it *really* bother me that I hand it out like free candy when I use my bread and butter DPS skill. The solution to the perma-stun biting jabs problem was so obviously simple, IMHO it is an indictment of the ZoS development team that they not only were incapable of finding it, but also refuse to implement it after they have been told by every templar, and a fair number of non-templars. Either remove to so-called stun effect from biting jabs completely or have it actually stun the opponent in the manner of other damaging skills with a knockdown/stun effect in the game. I'd also throw in Eclipse here as well. It also grants CC immunity to opponents without incapacitating them and no other skill in the game has nothing happen when pressing a button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Skills that lent themselves to some sort of synergy. I am of the belief that many of the Templar skills are good on paper when viewed in isolation, but do not mesh very well together. Our best attack skills put us in close range...but we want to wear light armor because we rely on magicka to survive and the class has no built in mechanic for sustain...but if we raise our magicka pool high then our shields suck. I'd imagine stamina templars have it easier here as weapons and the extra survivability open up more options. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be

If sorcs are perceived to be too strong, I think that has more to do with the overall weakness of the other magicka-based classes are at. NBs probably do the best of the others if only because they have the option to cloak that sometimes enables them to survive in a low TTK environment and opens up options of attack not available to DKs and Templars. But that they aren't morphing the ambush skill (again, ridiculous) and also seem to have some skills not reliably function (cloak, even if overstated, and also cripple doesn't seem to work vs shields), point to a problem that goes beyond the easy and misleading answer that sorcs are OP.

Is that a recent change to Eclipse? Because unless I break eclipse a templar has always been able to keep me eclipsed 100% of the time. There is no immunity given by eclipse and if you break free, well that isn't really "free" it's trading a small chunk of your magicka for a large chunk of their stamina pool. I'm also pretty sure you can't block eclipse because every time I try that against eclipse spammers it never works. Worst case is it drains me out of stamina and forces me to stop attacking so I can break free, giving you a chance to heal up etc.

If you can continually force me to spend my stamina from max range I'm never going to kill you in that short break free immunity window and unless the sorc you're fighting is running a full regen build like me you're going to run him out of stamina and thus be able to use a CC to knock him down and finish him.

That said I think Templar jabs need fixed/buffed, but the BS that was permastunning someone with jabs spam needs to stay dead. I think if Templar offensive capability is buffed too much their latent defensive capability will make them too powerful. I cerainly support some small tweaks to their offensive capabilities as they stand currently.

So you haven't pvp'd in a while and you are claiming to know the current state of the balancing act? Eclipse once broken gives the caster about 10 seconds of immunity from any disabling affects, Eclipse included. So When I put Eclipse on a caster he just sits there with his crapload shield and surrounds himself with mines and waits for the bubble to pop then he starts attacking me again. If I survive the 10 second attack then I get to cast Eclipse again. Meanwhile I cannot hit him with a ranged attack nor can I break through the shield and if I break through the shield then he just recasts it. Yes Eclipse helps to deal with Sorcs a lot but it does not fix the problem everyone is having against them at all.

It's 8 seconds actually, and only when Eclipse is actually broken.

I PvP every single day. I don't however test every single mechanic of every ability in the game because ZoS loves to make stealth changes and not mention them in the patch notes.

As of at least 2.0.5 a templar could keep you permanently eclipsed unless you break free or were given CC immunity from breakfree or another ability. Eclipse doesn't give CC immunity (or it didn't) which is why I asked if that was a recent change.

I thought break free was 8 seconds but people are saying it is 5 seconds. I need to test this again to see which it is, but either way Eclipse is an amazing stamina drain for sorcs.

its definatly not changed - was chain total darked for nearly a minute thx to a bug not leaving stealth wich results in no stam to break free.

Well IDK what to say because I play a Templar and total dark is my favorite ability and I can never recast it on the same target once it goes down. If you want we can test it I'm in EP on Chilrend and Azura with him right now. Send me a pm with your name and ill add you as friend.

I was just watching some of my footage of a templar chain casting this on me. The break free is definitely 8 seconds and im not granted immunity (Black wisps floating around you) if I don't break free.

yeah its always been that way, how do templars who use this ability not know there own class?

filmoretub17_ESO · April 2015

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Yesterday i duelled a v2 sorc... i had no chance killing him. Sure he didnt get me down either, but that just not ok.

Against a vr14 sorc who knows only a little how to duell i dont stand a chance.
I am a good dueller, not one of the best, but quite experienced. I kill most of 2h NBs and most Dks but Sorcs...
Sorcs are OP at least for a magicka Templar. Thats not ok! Nerf sorcs or buff templar!

Just keep eclipse on him and laugh as he does nothing. Depending on your build a healing templar is never going to kill a Sorc. You just don't have the damage potential and Jesus beam isn't going to kill anyone using a damage shield unless they're knocked down and out of stam.

I don't know of a Templar who can kill me 1 v 1 right now but I know many whom I can't kill either. I even know of one that can permanently heal my damage and another sorc all day long and not run out of magicka. I'm fine with that.....I'm not complaining because they're powerful healers and I can't kill them when played by skilled players.

Basically right, but as a Templar I will say this approach is not indefinitely sustainable. The main thing working against the templar is that she has no room for error. If the sorc makes a bad decision or a mistake against a Templar, he can bolt escape away before the templar can burst them down and reset the encounter so to speak. If the sorc wants to quit the encounter because they are bored, he can. When the Templar makes a mistake, she has no recourse to quit/reset the battle and has to contend with a class that actually has burst damage to get a kill.

The other problem with the Eclipse skill is that while it does shut down a sorc's offense if they don't break it, they are granted CC immunity despite *not* being CCed. Which basically means they need not worry about another eclipse or any other form of CC for that matter. Also what absolutely infuriates me, and perhaps it is only me as I don't hear anyone else complain about it, is that Eclipse does *nothing* - repeat nothing - if the target is holding block or is CC immune. In a game where the TTK is ridiculously low, losing action trying to cast a crucial defensive skill is, IMHO, intolerable.

I don't really mind the pressure that I am a Templar am put under in a duel Vs. a sorc. The class is designed to handle itself being immobile whereas Sorc's need the mobility. I accept that. What I would like to make this matchup more palatable are:
Class skills that are reliable to use. Toppling charge is the most obvious culprit here. But I put Eclipse here as well, even after the "fix" that was put in. I want the confidence that something, ideally beneficial, will happen if I press the button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Class skills that follow the basic mechanics in the game. If there is a weaker "hard" CC effect than the final hit of biting jabs, I'd like to know what it is. CC immunity is perhaps the most powerful effect a player can have in Cyrodiil and it *really* bother me that I hand it out like free candy when I use my bread and butter DPS skill. The solution to the perma-stun biting jabs problem was so obviously simple, IMHO it is an indictment of the ZoS development team that they not only were incapable of finding it, but also refuse to implement it after they have been told by every templar, and a fair number of non-templars. Either remove to so-called stun effect from biting jabs completely or have it actually stun the opponent in the manner of other damaging skills with a knockdown/stun effect in the game. I'd also throw in Eclipse here as well. It also grants CC immunity to opponents without incapacitating them and no other skill in the game has nothing happen when pressing a button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.

Skills that lent themselves to some sort of synergy. I am of the belief that many of the Templar skills are good on paper when viewed in isolation, but do not mesh very well together. Our best attack skills put us in close range...but we want to wear light armor because we rely on magicka to survive and the class has no built in mechanic for sustain...but if we raise our magicka pool high then our shields suck. I'd imagine stamina templars have it easier here as weapons and the extra survivability open up more options. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be

If sorcs are perceived to be too strong, I think that has more to do with the overall weakness of the other magicka-based classes are at. NBs probably do the best of the others if only because they have the option to cloak that sometimes enables them to survive in a low TTK environment and opens up options of attack not available to DKs and Templars. But that they aren't morphing the ambush skill (again, ridiculous) and also seem to have some skills not reliably function (cloak, even if overstated, and also cripple doesn't seem to work vs shields), point to a problem that goes beyond the easy and misleading answer that sorcs are OP.

Is that a recent change to Eclipse? Because unless I break eclipse a templar has always been able to keep me eclipsed 100% of the time. There is no immunity given by eclipse and if you break free, well that isn't really "free" it's trading a small chunk of your magicka for a large chunk of their stamina pool. I'm also pretty sure you can't block eclipse because every time I try that against eclipse spammers it never works. Worst case is it drains me out of stamina and forces me to stop attacking so I can break free, giving you a chance to heal up etc.

If you can continually force me to spend my stamina from max range I'm never going to kill you in that short break free immunity window and unless the sorc you're fighting is running a full regen build like me you're going to run him out of stamina and thus be able to use a CC to knock him down and finish him.

That said I think Templar jabs need fixed/buffed, but the BS that was permastunning someone with jabs spam needs to stay dead. I think if Templar offensive capability is buffed too much their latent defensive capability will make them too powerful. I cerainly support some small tweaks to their offensive capabilities as they stand currently.

So you haven't pvp'd in a while and you are claiming to know the current state of the balancing act? Eclipse once broken gives the caster about 10 seconds of immunity from any disabling affects, Eclipse included. So When I put Eclipse on a caster he just sits there with his crapload shield and surrounds himself with mines and waits for the bubble to pop then he starts attacking me again. If I survive the 10 second attack then I get to cast Eclipse again. Meanwhile I cannot hit him with a ranged attack nor can I break through the shield and if I break through the shield then he just recasts it. Yes Eclipse helps to deal with Sorcs a lot but it does not fix the problem everyone is having against them at all.

It's 8 seconds actually, and only when Eclipse is actually broken.

I PvP every single day. I don't however test every single mechanic of every ability in the game because ZoS loves to make stealth changes and not mention them in the patch notes.

As of at least 2.0.5 a templar could keep you permanently eclipsed unless you break free or were given CC immunity from breakfree or another ability. Eclipse doesn't give CC immunity (or it didn't) which is why I asked if that was a recent change.

I thought break free was 8 seconds but people are saying it is 5 seconds. I need to test this again to see which it is, but either way Eclipse is an amazing stamina drain for sorcs.

its definatly not changed - was chain total darked for nearly a minute thx to a bug not leaving stealth wich results in no stam to break free.

Well IDK what to say because I play a Templar and total dark is my favorite ability and I can never recast it on the same target once it goes down. If you want we can test it I'm in EP on Chilrend and Azura with him right now. Send me a pm with your name and ill add you as friend.

I was just watching some of my footage of a templar chain casting this on me. The break free is definitely 8 seconds and im not granted immunity (Black wisps floating around you) if I don't break free.

yeah its always been that way, how do templars who use this ability not know there own class?

Ok I just tested it and if the sorc uses break free then he gets an immunity from it. If the sorc uses purge or waits for it to end then it can immediately be recast. Must be a lot of sorcs using immunity abilities because I have never noticed that it happens like this.