$8 to for Single Respecs is Silly

htoncic

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Tal_72 wrote: »

The consumables below are usable by one character on your account, one time.
Skill Respec Scroll (700 crowns)
Attribute Respec Scroll (700 crowns)

$8 for 750 crowns. Seems absurd to pay that much for a one time respec.

Offer multiple spec slots and sell them for crowns. See MH 2015 and Rift.

One of the great things about the Crown Store is that it's OPTIONAL.

Don't like the price, don't buy, simple, why clutter the forums up with this?

Everything is optional, including living. But since all of us here have chosen to remain alive and play this game, why not talk about things that affect us? Do you have a better use for these forums? Do you believe they will get spent and disappear if we make too many threads that aren't to your liking?

Tal_72

hamgatan wrote: »

Tal_72 wrote: »

With my career and family, I am not going to set aside 1.5 hours x 2, 4, 6 times every week to farm--I play for fun AFTER WORK not to DO WORK.

So? I work 40 hour weeks, run my own business on the side, have kids a mortgage and all that fluff too.. and I still manage it. Its time management, it isn't rocket science. You're against paying $7 to respect a character in the Crown store, but you're also against farming for gold to pay for it in game at the Shrine of Stuhn? (which has been the only way to do it for the last year anyway...), so what exactly is your argument? That the game isn't like WoW? Boo hoo.

I really wish people would stop comparing ESO to WoW. They aren't the same. They never will be the same. And frankly, I like that they aren't. This is Elder Scrolls. It's 1 year old. Enjoy it for what it is. Don't draw comparisons to an archaic MMO on a 10 year old engine that's well past its use-by date.

WoW is hardly past use-by given current subscription numbers (and that it can still demand a subscription model at all). You need to understand that newer games have to offer similar QOL--because the players they want in large part come from that game and expect it. The majority of MMO players played WoW. How many PC MMO players do you think there are that don't or haven't played WoW?

Putting WoW aside, what is your argument against offering a dual spec? Sounds like you're just saying you walked 10 miles uphill in the snow both ways, therefore so should everybody else. Somebody asks if they can get a bus ride to school, and you're against it...because?

UrQuan

Tal_72 wrote: »

WoW is hardly past use-by given current subscription numbers (and that it can still demand a subscription model at all).

I can't really speak for @hamgatan here, but his post said that WoW's engine is past it's use-by date. He didn't say the game was failing or anything like that. Just that the engine is now essentially archaic.

Tal_72 wrote: »

Putting WoW aside, what is your argument against offering a dual spec? Sounds like you're just saying you walked 10 miles uphill in the snow both ways, therefore so should everybody else. Somebody asks if they can get a bus ride to school, and you're against it...because?

I have to admit, I'm firmly in the "paying gold for respecs is easy because gold is plentiful and easy to come by even without specifically farming it" camp (seriously, I don't think I'm ever sitting on less than 100K gold, and I spend my gold freely), yet I don't have anything against the idea of being able to buy a dual spec and being able to freely select which to use at any given time. Make it a relatively expensive up-front purchase for each character (and make it something that can be bought with gold as well as crowns), and it's all good. For people like you, who want to be able to use 1 spec for day to day use, and another for healing in raids, it would be a useful thing to have. People like me who rarely respec probably wouldn't bother with it, but that's fine.

hamgatan

Tal_72 wrote: »

WoW is hardly past use-by given current subscription numbers (and that it can still demand a subscription model at all). You need to understand that newer games have to offer similar QOL--because the players they want in large part come from that game and expect it. The majority of MMO players played WoW. How many PC MMO players do you think there are that don't or haven't played WoW?

Putting WoW aside, what is your argument against offering a dual spec? Sounds like you're just saying you walked 10 miles uphill in the snow both ways, therefore so should everybody else. Somebody asks if they can get a bus ride to school, and you're against it...because?

As mentioned above, I said the engine. However people are still content to play it. I for one don't nor have ever (except for a couple of weeks) played WoW. I hated it right from the get go as it never resembled the RTS it was meant to succeed. I'm an old school MUD/MOO'er. I'm here because like many others I'm an Elder Scrolls nutter, not a MMO nutter. I make no other comparisons to any other MMO and therefore are not jaded by any other MMO's.

But WoW aside, By your logic, you're effectively saying that even though everyone is sitting patiently in a traffic jam on the freeway following the rules crawling along in their quest to get from A to B - you think it's acceptable to indicate out into the emergency lane and throttle it just so you can get where you are going quicker than everyone else and circumvent the law?

What do you think people on the freeway are saying/thinking about you at that point?

Tal_72

@hamgatan Your distaste for WoW or its engine doesn't invalidate an argument about quality of life in the game nor the fact that millions of gamers feel differently. Your being oldschool doesn't add to your argument (I played the original Zork and had an Atari 2600 when I was 10). Your freeway analogy is about as absurd as the character names in your signature. I'll bite though--it's making it a toll highway vs issuing a bond that voters will approve to add more lanes.

I've made the case--forcing players who want to play needed roles to choose to grind, play something else, or leave I find to be bad for business. The demand is there. The technology and precedent is there--and multi spec did not break other games like WoW or Rift. There's not much else to say. Zenimax can run their analytics reports and see how many of the returning players continue to log in and how many do not. It's up to them.

akray21

This is stupid... I would open my wallet if it were for unlimited respecs....

hamgatan

Tal_72 wrote: »

I'll bite though--it's making it a toll highway vs issuing a bond that voters will approve to add more lanes.

and like any Tollway its pay per use. Kind of like paying $7 to respec, per use.

Teargrants

Are ppl really arguing that the ~13k gold respec cost is 'expensive enough' to warrant crown store respec costing $7? Cereally?

Gold is not that hard to make, I'm sorry it's just not. I can easily make 90k gold a day from just pvping.

BRogueNZ

Why do these obviously so awesome people care what other people want to spend their money/crowns on?

pugyourself

The lower prices go on items like this that border on P2W, the more likely people are to use them instead of playing the game to earn gold. I'd like to see respecs cost more Crowns to soak people who would rather pay than play. Anyone who is going to use Crowns for something like this will probably pay 2500 Crowns or more for this (i.e. it doesn't matter how much it costs...some will always pay instead of taking the time to play).

Tal_72

pugyourself wrote: »

The lower prices go on items like this that border on P2W, the more likely people are to use them instead of playing the game to earn gold. I'd like to see respecs cost more Crowns to soak people who would rather pay than play. Anyone who is going to use Crowns for something like this will probably pay 2500 Crowns or more for this (i.e. it doesn't matter how much it costs...some will always pay instead of taking the time to play).

Tell me how the entire population of WoW that can change between 2 specs is OP. Offering that capability did not break the game? It certainly helped with looking for group dungeon queues. That said, I will say I think dual spec (2 spec configurations you can switch between) is a much better option than super cheap respecs--although neither is really a big deal as far as balance is concerned.

pugyourself

Tal_72 wrote: »

pugyourself wrote: »

The lower prices go on items like this that border on P2W, the more likely people are to use them instead of playing the game to earn gold. I'd like to see respecs cost more Crowns to soak people who would rather pay than play. Anyone who is going to use Crowns for something like this will probably pay 2500 Crowns or more for this (i.e. it doesn't matter how much it costs...some will always pay instead of taking the time to play).

Tell me how the entire population of WoW that can change between 2 specs is OP. Offering that capability did not break the game? It certainly helped with looking for group dungeon queues. That said, I will say I think dual spec (2 spec configurations you can switch between) is a much better option than super cheap respecs--although neither is really a big deal as far as balance is concerned.

No beef with dual specs here. No beef with in-game gold respecs either. Cheap Cown Store respecs on the other hand...

SHADOW2KK

Crown Store is a slippery slope IMO, mounts fine, costumes fine, but anything like the Motifs and respecs etc are in my opinion a really slippery slope towards consumerism and pandering hugely to a instant gratification horde.

Gold is not hard to make in the game.

And it`s not as though respecs in general are as expensive in the game as they used to be.

Take the time, think out your build, if you make a mistake, then fair enough, you have learned something valuable, don`t go down the easy route and waste actual real life money on something that you can use in game gold for.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

you can get a enough gold to respec, at any level, in under a hour if your a good theif, so yeah, the price feels very, very, very high

SHADOW2KK

BRogueNZ wrote: »

Why do these obviously so awesome people care what other people want to spend their money/crowns on?

Well its more the principle of the matter, I personally could not care less what people spend their crowns on, but in regards to pandering to a instant gratification must have now must have nowwww way of thinking, it`s wrong and will make things worse in the long run.

You are looking at it wrong, its not that we are awesome, its just generally that we are all players, we all bought the game to enjoy.

And we are thinking bigger picture, out of the box.

With instant gratification peeps or peeps with more money than sense, all they care about it the here and now, and not the damage that this way of thinking does to the game in the long term.

As said I really don`t care in a fashion what you or others spend your crowns on, but spare a thought for the game in general and the long term rammifications of say at some stage, absolutely everything possible is on Crown Store.

Makes the game meaningless IMO and anything achievement related is destroyed, along with any integrity or pride in a particularly hard achievement or item being found.

If you can just buy anything, then its too easy and ultimately worthless.

BRogueNZ

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

BRogueNZ wrote: »

Why do these obviously so awesome people care what other people want to spend their money/crowns on?

Well its more the principle of the matter, I personally could not care less what people spend their crowns on, but in regards to pandering to a instant gratification must have now must have nowwww way of thinking, it`s wrong and will make things worse in the long run.

You are looking at it wrong, its not that we are awesome, its just generally that we are all players, we all bought the game to enjoy.

And we are thinking bigger picture, out of the box.

With instant gratification peeps or peeps with more money than sense, all they care about it the here and now, and not the damage that this way of thinking does to the game in the long term.

As said I really don`t care in a fashion what you or others spend your crowns on, but spare a thought for the game in general and the long term rammifications of say at some stage, absolutely everything possible is on Crown Store.

Makes the game meaningless IMO and anything achievement related is destroyed, along with any integrity or pride in a particularly hard achievement or item being found.

If you can just buy anything, then its too easy and ultimately worthless.

I still don't get why anyone who (gives themselves a hug for achieving things) should be concerned about how others got to the same point of game satisfaction.

I think that your argument is fine and I'd agree with it completely if the items obtained via the crown store had direct influence on anyone else other than just the buyer.

Yes making gold is not hard. However it seems people more concerned at the prospect of doing something trivial like earn gold to meet an end is not allowed to be hastened or eliminated.

So you have to sit for 2-20 mins in zone and earn 20k to change everything including CP configuration (which, I'll add, you can do anywhere, anytime for 3000g no crown scroll or shrine required)

Congratulations for playing the game .
Saying things are so easy, yet suggest that everything should be obtained by doing it the 'hard' way, I don't understand.

Grapdjan

I wonder when they will remove the in game method of respeccing.

SHADOW2KK

BRogueNZ wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

BRogueNZ wrote: »

Why do these obviously so awesome people care what other people want to spend their money/crowns on?

Well its more the principle of the matter, I personally could not care less what people spend their crowns on, but in regards to pandering to a instant gratification must have now must have nowwww way of thinking, it`s wrong and will make things worse in the long run.

You are looking at it wrong, its not that we are awesome, its just generally that we are all players, we all bought the game to enjoy.

And we are thinking bigger picture, out of the box.

With instant gratification peeps or peeps with more money than sense, all they care about it the here and now, and not the damage that this way of thinking does to the game in the long term.

As said I really don`t care in a fashion what you or others spend your crowns on, but spare a thought for the game in general and the long term rammifications of say at some stage, absolutely everything possible is on Crown Store.

Makes the game meaningless IMO and anything achievement related is destroyed, along with any integrity or pride in a particularly hard achievement or item being found.

If you can just buy anything, then its too easy and ultimately worthless.

I still don't get why anyone who (gives themselves a hug for achieving things) should be concerned about how others got to the same point of game satisfaction.

I think that your argument is fine and I'd agree with it completely if the items obtained via the crown store had direct influence on anyone else other than just the buyer.

Yes making gold is not hard. However it seems people more concerned at the prospect of doing something trivial like earn gold to meet an end is not allowed to be hastened or eliminated.

So you have to sit for 2-20 mins in zone and earn 20k to change everything including CP configuration (which, I'll add, you can do anywhere, anytime for 3000g no crown scroll or shrine required)

Congratulations for playing the game .
Saying things are so easy, yet suggest that everything should be obtained by doing it the 'hard' way, I don't understand.

Thank you for your response.

I will try to sorta explain it, to me personally, I do not agree fundamentally on the easy way of things, think its a terrible thing long term for a person no matter what he/she does if they do something that has no effort attached to it.

For example you mentioned game satisfaction, in other games people who use exploits or hacks in say a FPS like Battlefield 4 are absolutely held in contempt as hackers have "satisfaction" in the way they play their game, and in essence many gamers project their own morality/personality into whatever game they are playing, so in the context of ESO, if someone and some people will do it, guaranteed, they will take the easy way out, whereas others will actually commit the effort required to get whatever they want in a arguably proper way.

Which rolls onto the part where you mentioned about items obtained via crown store having direct influence on anyone else but the buyer, it does not have any immediate effect on anyone else granted.
But....I personally believe that this sort of consumer drive would feed itself, at some point more and more items would be added to the store and ultimately it would affect everyone in the long term.

It is sorta like a cancer that would get worse and worse and then absolutely everything will be on Crown Store and tbh the game would lose any appeal really to play for a lot of people, and thusly the game would die.

Again all of this is just my humble opinion and I apologise to anyone who reads this mighty novel as being evil or anything like that, I am not.

I am just of the opinion that if its worthwhile, then its not easy, you have to put effort in.

Some examples, its like playing a single player game where you complete the game fairly or cheating.

Now a lot of people will do both, and the funny thing is both camps will say they completed the game, which on the cheat front, absolutely baffles me, as they did not put in any effort at all, but both will agree to game "satisfaction"

Or say you meet a girl, you want her, understandably, but she makes you wait, .as they do...if you got her right away, then you wont value her, and both of you know it, but if you put the effort in, it becomes worthwhile...

Now I am not calling anyone cheaters or anything on here hehe, but what I am saying is to take the easy way out and compromise, it is a slippery slope and before you know it, instead of putting any effort in at all, you are just buying your way to OPness, oh great you are a mighty OP character and have everything worth getting in game, cos you spent all these Crowns to get it, does not make you good or w/e in my opinion, in fact I despise it.

To wrap it up, as gamers and for the good of the game, we really should not want the Crown Store to have anything that will damage the game in the long run, and obviously I am talking about the extreme scenario where in the future, everything is on Crown Store and people will just go mad with it, think about it...

For all we know, mats will be put on Crown Store, so bang there is our in game economy on the way to dying and other examples.

Are we playing the game then?, or are we just buying our way all the time....

DerpyShadowz

BRogueNZ wrote: »

Why do these obviously so awesome people care what other people want to spend their money/crowns on?

Pretty much sums it up.

I dont give a rats arse how much it is, If you want it that badly, buy it. If you cant justify it, Dont sit and moan and judge the people that do.

SHADOW2KK

I Highlander l wrote: »

BRogueNZ wrote: »

Why do these obviously so awesome people care what other people want to spend their money/crowns on?

Pretty much sums it up.

I dont give a rats arse how much it is, If you want it that badly, buy it. If you cant justify it, Dont sit and moan and judge the people that do.

Lol to which I counter that don`t judge the people who don`t, and it is hardly moaning or judging, just an observation and opinion, just like yours.

But still, love the logic of your post:}

Tors

What gold sinks are theres in this game? I have litterally millions of gold, and nothing to spend it on. I dont do the PvE content, I am almost 90% PvP yet I cant spend my cash faster than I make it.

A respeck is not pay to win, it saves a few gold (that are worthless ,but thats not the point)

A respeck does not give you an advantage over anyone else, and If it did, then the ingame cost is hardy onerous.


I do not belive many people actually understand what "pay to win" means, just parroting poor arguements from 12 year olds with no income nor the patience to use the ingame mechanics to play the game, wanting "END LEVEL CONTENT NOW!!!" as if this were some game from the same mould as WoW, cattering to the lowest common denominator.

WoW has a lot to answer for by dumbing down the MMORPG genre, games prior to that had some longevity, games post WoW have nothing to give their players past the "instant epics gratification"

I still remember the feeling of accomplishment on some of the older games like AC, the same feeling I found again within ESO.

Raash

pecheckler wrote: »

The price is irrelevant . Everyone has different incomes and different amounts of discretionary spending. The fact that what was previously the largest gold sinks in the game can now be purchased with a credit card validates the pay to win argument. I can spend a hundred dollars in the crown store and level two characters to VR14, never needing to pay 1 gold for a repair, respec, or stat redistribution. In the end the massive amount of extra gold in my hands will allow for purchase of the best gear, thus having an advantage over someone who paid nothing but base game cost.

Zenimax shouldn't have implemented these crown store additions without diving in and also adding a currency exchange and similar features, which balance out the equation.

I hope to never see ingame gold being exchangable to crowns if that is what you mean?
Zos would only lose on if people wont need to buy the crowns with real cash.

BRogueNZ

[quote="SHADOW2KK;1737224
Are we playing the game then?, or are we just buying our way all the time....[/quote]

I do see the potential for things to get out of hand and I do not begrudge any one achieving/obtaining.

Playing the game is definitely the most rewarding in the long run.
Being or at least trying to be the best is something to be proud of. Those are also just my opinions.

I guess what I mean is

Players gunna play
'ploiters gunna 'ploit
'ackers gunna 'ack
haters gonna hate
Trolls gunna troll
Rage quitter's gunna Rage
Quit

Some just decide to just not give a hootinanny

Seravi

If you can make enough gold to exchange for crowns, then you can make enough gold to cover the respec. Adding the option to exchange gold for crowns would kill this game.

Why purchase soul gems when you can get filled or empty ones in chests? Take the empty ones and fill them as you move around questing. It isn't that hard.

Deconstruct the items you don't want that are found in chests, on dead npcs etc and sell the mats.

Lots of ways to make easy gold.

SHADOW2KK

BRogueNZ wrote: »

[quote="SHADOW2KK;1737224
Are we playing the game then?, or are we just buying our way all the time....

I do see the potential for things to get out of hand and I do not begrudge any one achieving/obtaining.

Playing the game is definitely the most rewarding in the long run.
Being or at least trying to be the best is something to be proud of. Those are also just my opinions.

I guess what I mean is

Players gunna play
'ploiters gunna 'ploit
'ackers gunna 'ack
haters gonna hate
Trolls gunna troll
Rage quitter's gunna Rage
Quit

Some just decide to just not give a hootinanny

[/quote]

Aye very true.

Gotta love the wide spectrum of gamers eh;}

DerpyShadowz

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

I Highlander l wrote: »

BRogueNZ wrote: »

Why do these obviously so awesome people care what other people want to spend their money/crowns on?

Pretty much sums it up.

I dont give a rats arse how much it is, If you want it that badly, buy it. If you cant justify it, Dont sit and moan and judge the people that do.

Lol to which I counter that don`t judge the people who don`t, and it is hardly moaning or judging, just an observation and opinion, just like yours.

But still, love the logic of your post:}

Bah, I guess i just got fed up reading posts on the forums of people asking why anyone would buy these things for these prices and blaming them for encouraging it, plus a pretty long boring day at work

SHADOW2KK

I Highlander l wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

I Highlander l wrote: »

BRogueNZ wrote: »

Why do these obviously so awesome people care what other people want to spend their money/crowns on?

Pretty much sums it up.

I dont give a rats arse how much it is, If you want it that badly, buy it. If you cant justify it, Dont sit and moan and judge the people that do.

Lol to which I counter that don`t judge the people who don`t, and it is hardly moaning or judging, just an observation and opinion, just like yours.

But still, love the logic of your post:}

Bah, I guess i just got fed up reading posts on the forums of people asking why anyone would buy these things for these prices and blaming them for encouraging it, plus a pretty long boring day at work

Hahah fair enough laddie, fair enough...long boring day at work here too....disgruntled