Fear has some... issues...

Cinnamon_Spider

Satiar wrote: »

Though I should note that the theory I described to Bedlam last night on the subject is still just a hunch of mine. Internal testing continues.

I'd be down to meet up with you and test it out sometime.

jvh808

Based on the quick skim of these pages, I gather that the only issue the majority seems to agree on; is that the only thing they fear, is fear itself... Does that mean everyone on this thread actually has some level of wisdom?


On a less serious note, Mass Hysteria should still keep a lot of its current status effects as well as remain unblockable, but removing the initial stun would be ideal and the best applied fix in terms of balance... If more than that is done, I'd very much like to see Agony and its morphs become a legitimately usable skill.

eliisra

I suspect the new Fear animation in 1.6.5 is what makes it a bit slower, or less responsive to break. For me at least, controlling effects from other skills responds slightly faster when I hit my break free key. It's for sure not "unbreakable", but that animation always feels a bit like a stun or a lag spike

c0rp

Too many noobs complaining about bolt escape in order for this to get any attention. I can't even remember the last time I was able to break out of a fear. Its perm CC as far as Im concerned.

cozmon3c_ESO

all cc's that take a while to break need to be looked into, many times im feared and it takes 2-3 key presses before it registers a cc break, taking 1-3 seconds, or some times you cannot cc break it at all.

this includes the new annoying cc break delay for magnum shot that is becoming ever more popular as the days go on.

getting juggled around by wrecking blows because you cannot cc break in the air sometimes.

cc break needs to be just more responsive in general and not be part of the global cool down of skills, i shouldnt cc break and have to wait for the global cooldown to use another ability. cc break has not kept up with the increased speed of combat and needs to be fixed for the increase in ttk.

cc break is my main cause of my deaths, whether it takes forever to work or not at all. its seems to be increasingly rarer that cc break goes off instantly when you need it to at 1 press of a button (key bound).

Ezareth

Satiar wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ok count me in on the "Fix" fear boat. More and more people are learning to exploit the "Fear when Dodge rolling" bug that makes Fear take 1-2 seconds to break free. If you're feared normally you can always seem to break free fine but if you're feared mid-dodge roll you're screwed if 1-2 people are on you. It actually punishes you for playing skillfully.

Surely you do not speak of me. I would never!

Yeah it's pretty cheesy but I don't blame you for using it. Not a damn thing you can do about it either which is the real problem. It's just as bad as the old Vampire Feed cheese.

Fear is currently the buggiest ability in the game right now IMO. Even the Crit-charge stun from 30 yards away can't move or do anything until they're ported to your position garbage isn't a guaranteed death.

Satiar

Ezareth wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ok count me in on the "Fix" fear boat. More and more people are learning to exploit the "Fear when Dodge rolling" bug that makes Fear take 1-2 seconds to break free. If you're feared normally you can always seem to break free fine but if you're feared mid-dodge roll you're screwed if 1-2 people are on you. It actually punishes you for playing skillfully.

Surely you do not speak of me. I would never!

Yeah it's pretty cheesy but I don't blame you for using it. Not a damn thing you can do about it either which is the real problem. It's just as bad as the old Vampire Feed cheese.

Fear is currently the buggiest ability in the game right now IMO. Even the Crit-charge stun from 30 yards away can't move or do anything until they're ported to your position garbage isn't a guaranteed death.

Of course I'm going to use it. If you're standing by your absorbing bolt, with full shields, blocking, with overload and frags ready, what other move do I have? You fear and hope to burst in the timeframe. With sorcs how they are, this is literally the only way to give yourself a good chance at killing. You have better resource sustain, better life sustain, better mobility, better damage absorption and similar burst with stun and range factors attached. The only weakness a sorc has is its small health pool, so the stun > burst factor is pretty much all anyone can do.

The dodge roll is interesting. I used to try stuff like that on some older ESO players who used break free macros, cuz the double animation that is inherent to certain combos would *** it up for them. I will say, if I'm right about how it works, it's hardly the end of the world. It's not unbreakable liek the old root/knockdown combos. It *feels* like an instant's delay, the kind of thing that only really makes a difference when you're trying to 1vX a raid. It's not enough time for another Wrecking Blow or even a canceled Surprise Attack. It's a blip that lets 1 people all get that one hit in.

And Bedlam, sure, we can test it sometime. I'd like to know if I'm imagining it or not. Considering all 3 of us noticed it I'm guessing there is something there, but more testing would be good.

EDIT: And man, don't get me started on Crit charge. Sorc builds have so much going for them, your *** mobility includes damage absorbs and stuns, I don't want to hear it.

Ezareth

Satiar wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ok count me in on the "Fix" fear boat. More and more people are learning to exploit the "Fear when Dodge rolling" bug that makes Fear take 1-2 seconds to break free. If you're feared normally you can always seem to break free fine but if you're feared mid-dodge roll you're screwed if 1-2 people are on you. It actually punishes you for playing skillfully.

Surely you do not speak of me. I would never!

Yeah it's pretty cheesy but I don't blame you for using it. Not a damn thing you can do about it either which is the real problem. It's just as bad as the old Vampire Feed cheese.

Fear is currently the buggiest ability in the game right now IMO. Even the Crit-charge stun from 30 yards away can't move or do anything until they're ported to your position garbage isn't a guaranteed death.

Of course I'm going to use it. If you're standing by your absorbing bolt, with full shields, blocking, with overload and frags ready, what other move do I have? You fear and hope to burst in the timeframe. With sorcs how they are, this is literally the only way to give yourself a good chance at killing. You have better resource sustain, better life sustain, better mobility, better damage absorption and similar burst with stun and range factors attached. The only weakness a sorc has is its small health pool, so the stun > burst factor is pretty much all anyone can do.

The dodge roll is interesting. I used to try stuff like that on some older ESO players who used break free macros, cuz the double animation that is inherent to certain combos would *** it up for them. I will say, if I'm right about how it works, it's hardly the end of the world. It's not unbreakable liek the old root/knockdown combos. It *feels* like an instant's delay, the kind of thing that only really makes a difference when you're trying to 1vX a raid. It's not enough time for another Wrecking Blow or even a canceled Surprise Attack. It's a blip that lets 1 people all get that one hit in.

And Bedlam, sure, we can test it sometime. I'd like to know if I'm imagining it or not. Considering all 3 of us noticed it I'm guessing there is something there, but more testing would be good.

EDIT: And man, don't get me started on Crit charge. Sorc builds have so much going for them, your *** mobility includes damage absorbs and stuns, I don't want to hear it.

It's not a sorc thing, it's a min/max player taking advantage of some serious balance issues with the math in the game. Me and exquisite were fighting a DK last night with 2 other people as he dodge rolled through us and kept wings active and green dragon blood healing him the entire time. He wasn't even using LoS to regen and it took us 2-3 minutes to kill him. I can't do anything close to that. There was a DK emp using the same tactic that literally took 30 people to kill. He just spamming dodge roll and ultimates constantly. He only finally died because someone caught him with a meteor just as his wings expired. I haven't seen that many people beating on someone and them not dying since the days of Murder Thumbs in Volendrung.

As I said I've got no issue with CC. The design of the game accommodates breaking free from CC and if that isn't working right then something is wrong. It shouldn't take 2 seconds for me to break free every time you fear me.

There are plenty of other ways to kill me, maybe not with the group you're running and their builds but I die quite alot without break-delayed CC. Keep in mind I'm build for survivability and sustainability first, damage is only secondary.

On Crit charge I think the bonus damage needs to be capped at whatever the maximum range on the ability is if it isn't already. Lag-casting this to hit someone who is 40+ yards away is pretty BS as it *does* have a travel time and that person can't do anything until the person charging him is caught up. Either way I adjusted my build to deal with Crit-charge and unless there are 3 people staggering their charges to keep me CC locked I can usually survive charge-spam.

Teargrants

True fact, Steve hates sorcs cuz of how many times I've left him to die.

Maybe I laughed too.

Panda244

Ezareth wrote: »

Me and exquisite were fighting a DK last night with 2 other people as he dodge rolled through us and kept wings active and green dragon blood healing him the entire time. He wasn't even using LoS to regen and it took us 2-3 minutes to kill him.

@Ezareth 2-3 minutes?

Dusts off Nutella's old Sap Tank build. That's totally not an exploit.



@Weberda tell Tyago. I'm coming for that booty.


On a serious note, 2-3 minutes, to survive, as a Sap Tank, is legitimately an insult to any decent Sap Tank.

They're invulnerable when played right and against bad players that bunch up.... So basically every PvP guild in the game. At least on NA. You need to spread out or heal debuff them for them to ever die, with Tripots you have an infinite source of Stamina to block and Magicka to spam your heals. And god damn is Sap Essence brokenly OP in 2.0.... I got a 10k crit off it when testing on Crag mobs.

Ezareth

Teargrants wrote: »

True fact, Steve hates sorcs cuz of how many times I've left him to die.

Maybe I laughed too.

This is why most Sorcs end up playing Loners I think. Our groups end up hating us for not dying with them ) =

Panda244 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Me and exquisite were fighting a DK last night with 2 other people as he dodge rolled through us and kept wings active and green dragon blood healing him the entire time. He wasn't even using LoS to regen and it took us 2-3 minutes to kill him.

@Ezareth 2-3 minutes?

Dusts off Nutella's old Sap Tank build. That's totally not an exploit.

This was a DK, not a NB. Sap Tanks are easy to counter with skilled players.

I'm not even complaining, I'm just saying that the fact that people are complaining about sorcs with this kind of crap going on is pretty ludicrous.

I think there are just too many salty NBs who got killed by a Sorc where against a DK or a Templar they would have escaped.

Satiar

Ezareth wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

True fact, Steve hates sorcs cuz of how many times I've left him to die.

Maybe I laughed too.

This is why most Sorcs end up playing Loners I think. Our groups end up hating us for not dying with them ) =

Panda244 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Me and exquisite were fighting a DK last night with 2 other people as he dodge rolled through us and kept wings active and green dragon blood healing him the entire time. He wasn't even using LoS to regen and it took us 2-3 minutes to kill him.

@Ezareth 2-3 minutes?

Dusts off Nutella's old Sap Tank build. That's totally not an exploit.

This was a DK, not a NB. Sap Tanks are easy to counter with skilled players.

I'm not even complaining, I'm just saying that the fact that people are complaining about sorcs with this kind of crap going on is pretty ludicrous.

I think there are just too many salty NBs who got killed by a Sorc where against a DK or a Templar they would have escaped.

Eh, I think you're a lil biased if you don't think Sorcs have too much going for them at the moment, but whatevs. I don't really 1v1 that much anymore so doesn't effect me that much. However, I maintain that a class with incredible sustain and mobility should have significant downsides, and that sorc does not really have those.

It's just like DKs used to be. Not ridiculously OP, not like they couldn't be killed or countered by skilled players. Just a step ahead of the rest, armed with a combination of skills that worked together really well.

Ezareth

Satiar wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

True fact, Steve hates sorcs cuz of how many times I've left him to die.

Maybe I laughed too.

This is why most Sorcs end up playing Loners I think. Our groups end up hating us for not dying with them ) =

Panda244 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Me and exquisite were fighting a DK last night with 2 other people as he dodge rolled through us and kept wings active and green dragon blood healing him the entire time. He wasn't even using LoS to regen and it took us 2-3 minutes to kill him.

@Ezareth 2-3 minutes?

Dusts off Nutella's old Sap Tank build. That's totally not an exploit.

This was a DK, not a NB. Sap Tanks are easy to counter with skilled players.

I'm not even complaining, I'm just saying that the fact that people are complaining about sorcs with this kind of crap going on is pretty ludicrous.

I think there are just too many salty NBs who got killed by a Sorc where against a DK or a Templar they would have escaped.

Eh, I think you're a lil biased if you don't think Sorcs have too much going for them at the moment, but whatevs. I don't really 1v1 that much anymore so doesn't effect me that much. However, I maintain that a class with incredible sustain and mobility should have significant downsides, and that sorc does not really have those.

It's just like DKs used to be. Not ridiculously OP, not like they couldn't be killed or countered by skilled players. Just a step ahead of the rest, armed with a combination of skills that worked together really well.

I think Sorcs are fun to play but I only feel like I have "too much going for me" when I'm playing less skilled players. I don't think there is a class out there played by a player who knows it inside and out and knows the capabilities of the other classes who wouldn't feel the same. They don't have any more "sustain" or efficiency than any other class, probably less than some TBH.

All of the counters to sorcs exist. Pre-1.6 I'd die perhaps 5 times per *Day* of PvP and would maintain a 25kill-d ratio. These days I'm lucky to maintain a 3-1 kill ratio, and most of those are against bad players that I cherry pick. As I said, against good players in a 1 v 1, it could go either way. That's about as unbiased as I can get, pure facts and no exaggerations there. So I don't know, maybe I'm just a crappy sorc and there are other sorcs with a much better game going on than me, but I like to think that given 100 days played on my Sorc I know it pretty well and you're not going to find many sorcs doing things that I can't.

If you asked me my honest opinion I'd say Sorcs are the flip side of the same coin that is the Nightblade with Nightblades being a far better offensive option due to better CC(Fear) and burst and Sorcs being the better defensive option with better escapes and defensive abilities.

rich.magab14a_ESO

Lava_Croft wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

McDoogs wrote: »

I like how the NBs come out of the woodwork to try to convince people that having the only instant, unmitigateable (and spammable, and sometimes unbreakable) hard CC that gives no CC immunity unless broken in the game is not a wee bit unbalancing.

Fossilize. Single target, but lasts 20 seconds and has 15m range. Does damage and roots the player even after it's broken.

Also Agony and Rune Prison, but nobody uses those due to the cast times.

Please come back when you actually know what you're talking about, thanks.

Fossilize gives you CC immunity when broken, I tested this, it doesn't give CC immunity though when the caster breaks it by doing damage, if you break it, you get immunity.

Fear works exactly the same way.

It does not give immunity if not broken, but if you break it, you get immunity.

It is not the only CC that works this way, which is what the poster I quoted seems to believe.

The only problem I see with fear is the fact that it doesn't break on damage like Fossilize and rune prison, I don't mind the no CC immunity part to it if you don't break free as this wouldn't matter when the caster can only deal a certain amount of damage before it breaks

Fear is absolutely one of the strongest CC's in the game, but against anyone with half a brain it's far from the 'free kill' people make it out to be. I run into fresh Stamina Nightblades all day who think that Fear is a free kill while in reality it provides me with a valuable 6 seconds of CC immunity. Fear also often leads to targets wandering off in a direction that is not (directly) beneficial to the caster. (And I don't mean in the direction of Ni-Mohk while carrying a scroll because the target decided to fall through the map.)

You can just take a single skill, ignore the class it belongs to and compare it to another skill and ignore the class that belongs to, but it's a futile exercise.

Protip: Try to invest in Stamina for added survivability.

You are talking about 1v1 situations. which isnt really the situation people are complaining about. In group combat fear is king and if the dice doesnt roll right for you, then you are dead.

Ezareth

rich.magab14a_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

McDoogs wrote: »

I like how the NBs come out of the woodwork to try to convince people that having the only instant, unmitigateable (and spammable, and sometimes unbreakable) hard CC that gives no CC immunity unless broken in the game is not a wee bit unbalancing.

Fossilize. Single target, but lasts 20 seconds and has 15m range. Does damage and roots the player even after it's broken.

Also Agony and Rune Prison, but nobody uses those due to the cast times.

Please come back when you actually know what you're talking about, thanks.

Fossilize gives you CC immunity when broken, I tested this, it doesn't give CC immunity though when the caster breaks it by doing damage, if you break it, you get immunity.

Fear works exactly the same way.

It does not give immunity if not broken, but if you break it, you get immunity.

It is not the only CC that works this way, which is what the poster I quoted seems to believe.

The only problem I see with fear is the fact that it doesn't break on damage like Fossilize and rune prison, I don't mind the no CC immunity part to it if you don't break free as this wouldn't matter when the caster can only deal a certain amount of damage before it breaks

Fear is absolutely one of the strongest CC's in the game, but against anyone with half a brain it's far from the 'free kill' people make it out to be. I run into fresh Stamina Nightblades all day who think that Fear is a free kill while in reality it provides me with a valuable 6 seconds of CC immunity. Fear also often leads to targets wandering off in a direction that is not (directly) beneficial to the caster. (And I don't mean in the direction of Ni-Mohk while carrying a scroll because the target decided to fall through the map.)

You can just take a single skill, ignore the class it belongs to and compare it to another skill and ignore the class that belongs to, but it's a futile exercise.

Protip: Try to invest in Stamina for added survivability.

You are talking about 1v1 situations. which isnt really the situation people are complaining about. In group combat fear is king and if the dice doesnt roll right for you, then you are dead.

Pretty much this. Someone fear bombs you coordinated with a couple crit-chargers and you're dead. Not a thing you can do. The same done with Petrify or any other CC ability is not the same. That's what needs fixed.

vortexman11

Ezareth wrote: »

rich.magab14a_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

McDoogs wrote: »

I like how the NBs come out of the woodwork to try to convince people that having the only instant, unmitigateable (and spammable, and sometimes unbreakable) hard CC that gives no CC immunity unless broken in the game is not a wee bit unbalancing.

Fossilize. Single target, but lasts 20 seconds and has 15m range. Does damage and roots the player even after it's broken.

Also Agony and Rune Prison, but nobody uses those due to the cast times.

Please come back when you actually know what you're talking about, thanks.

Fossilize gives you CC immunity when broken, I tested this, it doesn't give CC immunity though when the caster breaks it by doing damage, if you break it, you get immunity.

Fear works exactly the same way.

It does not give immunity if not broken, but if you break it, you get immunity.

It is not the only CC that works this way, which is what the poster I quoted seems to believe.

The only problem I see with fear is the fact that it doesn't break on damage like Fossilize and rune prison, I don't mind the no CC immunity part to it if you don't break free as this wouldn't matter when the caster can only deal a certain amount of damage before it breaks

Fear is absolutely one of the strongest CC's in the game, but against anyone with half a brain it's far from the 'free kill' people make it out to be. I run into fresh Stamina Nightblades all day who think that Fear is a free kill while in reality it provides me with a valuable 6 seconds of CC immunity. Fear also often leads to targets wandering off in a direction that is not (directly) beneficial to the caster. (And I don't mean in the direction of Ni-Mohk while carrying a scroll because the target decided to fall through the map.)

You can just take a single skill, ignore the class it belongs to and compare it to another skill and ignore the class that belongs to, but it's a futile exercise.

Protip: Try to invest in Stamina for added survivability.

You are talking about 1v1 situations. which isnt really the situation people are complaining about. In group combat fear is king and if the dice doesnt roll right for you, then you are dead.

Pretty much this. Someone fear bombs you coordinated with a couple crit-chargers and you're dead. Not a thing you can do. The same done with Petrify or any other CC ability is not the same. That's what needs fixed.

Thank you...you shouldn't be able to do this.. "Its a counter to permablockers" they say... but NO ITS NOT A COUNTER ITS A GOD DAMN FREE KILL if you don't instantly kill someone or do crazy amounts of damage right before they break free then you're obviously not coordinated in your rotation...all it takes is a nightblade to use fear then soul harvest and they can basically do 15k instant damage to you, even if you were to break free right away its not fast enough to block the soul harvest.

Mojomonkeyman

vortexman11 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

rich.magab14a_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

McDoogs wrote: »

I like how the NBs come out of the woodwork to try to convince people that having the only instant, unmitigateable (and spammable, and sometimes unbreakable) hard CC that gives no CC immunity unless broken in the game is not a wee bit unbalancing.

Fossilize. Single target, but lasts 20 seconds and has 15m range. Does damage and roots the player even after it's broken.

Also Agony and Rune Prison, but nobody uses those due to the cast times.

Please come back when you actually know what you're talking about, thanks.

Fossilize gives you CC immunity when broken, I tested this, it doesn't give CC immunity though when the caster breaks it by doing damage, if you break it, you get immunity.

Fear works exactly the same way.

It does not give immunity if not broken, but if you break it, you get immunity.

It is not the only CC that works this way, which is what the poster I quoted seems to believe.

The only problem I see with fear is the fact that it doesn't break on damage like Fossilize and rune prison, I don't mind the no CC immunity part to it if you don't break free as this wouldn't matter when the caster can only deal a certain amount of damage before it breaks

Fear is absolutely one of the strongest CC's in the game, but against anyone with half a brain it's far from the 'free kill' people make it out to be. I run into fresh Stamina Nightblades all day who think that Fear is a free kill while in reality it provides me with a valuable 6 seconds of CC immunity. Fear also often leads to targets wandering off in a direction that is not (directly) beneficial to the caster. (And I don't mean in the direction of Ni-Mohk while carrying a scroll because the target decided to fall through the map.)

You can just take a single skill, ignore the class it belongs to and compare it to another skill and ignore the class that belongs to, but it's a futile exercise.

Protip: Try to invest in Stamina for added survivability.

You are talking about 1v1 situations. which isnt really the situation people are complaining about. In group combat fear is king and if the dice doesnt roll right for you, then you are dead.

Pretty much this. Someone fear bombs you coordinated with a couple crit-chargers and you're dead. Not a thing you can do. The same done with Petrify or any other CC ability is not the same. That's what needs fixed.

Thank you...you shouldn't be able to do this.. "Its a counter to permablockers" they say... but NO ITS NOT A COUNTER ITS A GOD DAMN FREE KILL if you don't instantly kill someone or do crazy amounts of damage right before they break free then you're obviously not coordinated in your rotation...all it takes is a nightblade to use fear then soul harvest and they can basically do 15k instant damage to you, even if you were to break free right away its not fast enough to block the soul harvest.

Exactly this.

Some supersmart NBs will still claim you just need more stam regen, tho. It`s a waste of time.

Panda244

Ezareth wrote: »

This was a DK, not a NB. Sap Tanks are easy to counter with skilled players.

I'm not even complaining, I'm just saying that the fact that people are complaining about sorcs with this kind of crap going on is pretty ludicrous.

I think there are just too many salty NBs who got killed by a Sorc where against a DK or a Templar they would have escaped.

Sap Tanks are indeed easily countered with skilled players....

This game doesn't have any skilled players outside of Legends and a few people that don't run with zergs such as yourself, all a zerg is in this game is a Sap Tank's best friend, as they won't spread out and you can tank for days in them, the only zerg that's probably coordinated enough to kill a Sap Tank is IR.

And honestly, this game doesn't require skill anymore. It requires using a FOTM build and having an awareness, all "skill" is needed for is using the terrain to your advantage. That's it. 1.6 took skill out of the game and made it an AP grind fest.

Ezareth

Panda244 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

This was a DK, not a NB. Sap Tanks are easy to counter with skilled players.

I'm not even complaining, I'm just saying that the fact that people are complaining about sorcs with this kind of crap going on is pretty ludicrous.

I think there are just too many salty NBs who got killed by a Sorc where against a DK or a Templar they would have escaped.

Sap Tanks are indeed easily countered with skilled players....

This game doesn't have any skilled players outside of Legends and a few people that don't run with zergs such as yourself, all a zerg is in this game is a Sap Tank's best friend, as they won't spread out and you can tank for days in them, the only zerg that's probably coordinated enough to kill a Sap Tank is IR.

And honestly, this game doesn't require skill anymore. It requires using a FOTM build and having an awareness, all "skill" is needed for is using the terrain to your advantage. That's it. 1.6 took skill out of the game and made it an AP grind fest.

I wouldn't go so far as to say the game doesn't require skill. If that were the case we'd all be on similar levels. I think the game requires quite a bit of skill and I see it every day.

That said I also see the zerg ballers and the hive-mind mentality players. They move together everywhere as a group and never leave the protection of their little ball. I had a group of 6 people run from me last night to a resource....and they proceeded to attempt to siege me down while hugging the NPCs on the flag. I think the problem is there are so many new players flooding the game with *no* skill at all it's almost like all of the old hardcore players are Gods and the new players are just our playthings.

I've made less AP since I've come back to the game than I used to make in a week of PvP before. I don't think it is grindy but there are many players playing in Cyrodiil that are there to grind AP.

However, we digress.

Satiar

Panda244 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

This was a DK, not a NB. Sap Tanks are easy to counter with skilled players.

I'm not even complaining, I'm just saying that the fact that people are complaining about sorcs with this kind of crap going on is pretty ludicrous.

I think there are just too many salty NBs who got killed by a Sorc where against a DK or a Templar they would have escaped.

Sap Tanks are indeed easily countered with skilled players....

This game doesn't have any skilled players outside of Legends and a few people that don't run with zergs such as yourself, all a zerg is in this game is a Sap Tank's best friend, as they won't spread out and you can tank for days in them, the only zerg that's probably coordinated enough to kill a Sap Tank is IR.

And honestly, this game doesn't require skill anymore. It requires using a FOTM build and having an awareness, all "skill" is needed for is using the terrain to your advantage. That's it. 1.6 took skill out of the game and made it an AP grind fest.

Seriously? You think no other group knows how to kill a sap tank?

Like, it's not hard. Spread out, reverb bash/debuff, fear/stun, dead.

There. To groups everywhere who are not IR (apparently), you're welcome.

Also, back before I left Legends (because there was too much chat and most of it was "lol you used pots" or "lag" or "lag gf" or "X OP" etc., pretty much every major raid lead in the game was in there. All the big guilds from DC, AD and EP represented. Skilled players are everywhere, not just in the dueling meta, or alone in fields waiting to hit people off their horses.

That said, I approve of hitting people off their horses. Back in 1.3 I won the EP Award of Excellence by crit charging people off their horses!

Panda244

Ezareth wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

This was a DK, not a NB. Sap Tanks are easy to counter with skilled players.

I'm not even complaining, I'm just saying that the fact that people are complaining about sorcs with this kind of crap going on is pretty ludicrous.

I think there are just too many salty NBs who got killed by a Sorc where against a DK or a Templar they would have escaped.

Sap Tanks are indeed easily countered with skilled players....

This game doesn't have any skilled players outside of Legends and a few people that don't run with zergs such as yourself, all a zerg is in this game is a Sap Tank's best friend, as they won't spread out and you can tank for days in them, the only zerg that's probably coordinated enough to kill a Sap Tank is IR.

And honestly, this game doesn't require skill anymore. It requires using a FOTM build and having an awareness, all "skill" is needed for is using the terrain to your advantage. That's it. 1.6 took skill out of the game and made it an AP grind fest.

I wouldn't go so far as to say the game doesn't require skill. If that were the case we'd all be on similar levels. I think the game requires quite a bit of skill and I see it every day.

That said I also see the zerg ballers and the hive-mind mentality players. They move together everywhere as a group and never leave the protection of their little ball. I had a group of 6 people run from me last night to a resource....and they proceeded to attempt to siege me down while hugging the NPCs on the flag. I think the problem is there are so many new players flooding the game with *no* skill at all it's almost like all of the old hardcore players are Gods and the new players are just our playthings.

I've made less AP since I've come back to the game than I used to make in a week of PvP before. I don't think it is grindy but there are many players playing in Cyrodiil that are there to grind AP.

However, we digress.

Ah yes. Fear..... It's so. Scary.

Panda244

Satiar wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

This was a DK, not a NB. Sap Tanks are easy to counter with skilled players.

I'm not even complaining, I'm just saying that the fact that people are complaining about sorcs with this kind of crap going on is pretty ludicrous.

I think there are just too many salty NBs who got killed by a Sorc where against a DK or a Templar they would have escaped.

Sap Tanks are indeed easily countered with skilled players....

This game doesn't have any skilled players outside of Legends and a few people that don't run with zergs such as yourself, all a zerg is in this game is a Sap Tank's best friend, as they won't spread out and you can tank for days in them, the only zerg that's probably coordinated enough to kill a Sap Tank is IR.

And honestly, this game doesn't require skill anymore. It requires using a FOTM build and having an awareness, all "skill" is needed for is using the terrain to your advantage. That's it. 1.6 took skill out of the game and made it an AP grind fest.

Seriously? You think no other group knows how to kill a sap tank?

Like, it's not hard. Spread out, reverb bash/debuff, fear/stun, dead.

There. To groups everywhere who are not IR (apparently), you're welcome.

Also, back before I left Legends (because there was too much chat and most of it was "lol you used pots" or "lag" or "lag gf" or "X OP" etc., pretty much every major raid lead in the game was in there. All the big guilds from DC, AD and EP represented. Skilled players are everywhere, not just in the dueling meta, or alone in fields waiting to hit people off their horses.

That said, I approve of hitting people off their horses. Back in 1.3 I won the EP Award of Excellence by crit charging people off their horses!

A zerg does not require skill, it requires coordination, that's two different things. And I tried to edit this comment to give more of my opinion but I hit cancel and not save comment and I'm tired and don't feel like writing that paragraph again so.

When playing by yourself, or with a small group, you have to rely on yourself, and up your awareness, reaction time, etc. This by simple assocciation also tends to up your skill at the game, in a zerg you rely on your healers to heal, your crown to give you orders, and therefor, outside of the zerg, you're at a loss for what to do, and you're an easy kill. At least a majority of zerglings are.

As far as gankers go, @ChannelTribes is a damn good player when I bumped into him outside Bleakers, at the time, he was ganking, whether he admits it or not

But he was a good player because of his reaction time, and ability to wtf animation cancel me to death in a matter of seconds, that's a good player, not someone who runs around in a horde of 30 people and spams 3 skills and doesn't worry about having to heal themselves or where they'll go next, they listen to crown, crown dies, zerg dies, game dies.

Satiar

Panda244 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

This was a DK, not a NB. Sap Tanks are easy to counter with skilled players.

I'm not even complaining, I'm just saying that the fact that people are complaining about sorcs with this kind of crap going on is pretty ludicrous.

I think there are just too many salty NBs who got killed by a Sorc where against a DK or a Templar they would have escaped.

Sap Tanks are indeed easily countered with skilled players....

This game doesn't have any skilled players outside of Legends and a few people that don't run with zergs such as yourself, all a zerg is in this game is a Sap Tank's best friend, as they won't spread out and you can tank for days in them, the only zerg that's probably coordinated enough to kill a Sap Tank is IR.

And honestly, this game doesn't require skill anymore. It requires using a FOTM build and having an awareness, all "skill" is needed for is using the terrain to your advantage. That's it. 1.6 took skill out of the game and made it an AP grind fest.

Seriously? You think no other group knows how to kill a sap tank?

Like, it's not hard. Spread out, reverb bash/debuff, fear/stun, dead.

There. To groups everywhere who are not IR (apparently), you're welcome.

Also, back before I left Legends (because there was too much chat and most of it was "lol you used pots" or "lag" or "lag gf" or "X OP" etc., pretty much every major raid lead in the game was in there. All the big guilds from DC, AD and EP represented. Skilled players are everywhere, not just in the dueling meta, or alone in fields waiting to hit people off their horses.

That said, I approve of hitting people off their horses. Back in 1.3 I won the EP Award of Excellence by crit charging people off their horses!

A zerg does not require skill, it requires coordination, that's two different things. And I tried to edit this comment to give more of my opinion but I hit cancel and not save comment and I'm tired and don't feel like writing that paragraph again so.

When playing by yourself, or with a small group, you have to rely on yourself, and up your awareness, reaction time, etc. This by simple assocciation also tends to up your skill at the game, in a zerg you rely on your healers to heal, your crown to give you orders, and therefor, outside of the zerg, you're at a loss for what to do, and you're an easy kill. At least a majority of zerglings are.

As far as gankers go, @ChannelTribes is a damn good player when I bumped into him outside Bleakers, at the time, he was ganking, whether he admits it or not

But he was a good player because of his reaction time, and ability to wtf animation cancel me to death in a matter of seconds, that's a good player, not someone who runs around in a horde of 30 people and spams 3 skills and doesn't worry about having to heal themselves or where they'll go next, they listen to crown, crown dies, zerg dies, game dies.

People fetishize solo and small group play here. I mean, I know what it is, I've done it, have plenty of videos. Back in the day I think Vehemence had one of the best small mans in the game. So I been there.

And really, running a good raid is hard. it's different but you still need skill, the difference between raids with good players and those without are obvious merely from a visual standpoint alone. But you're right, it's not just about individual skill: it's about skilled individuals working together to make themselves better then their parts.

I still love small group and solo play, they all take skill to excel at. I just hate it when they get put on this pedestal of awesomeness, when really they're just part of another meta.

cozmon3c_ESO

Satiar wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

This was a DK, not a NB. Sap Tanks are easy to counter with skilled players.

I'm not even complaining, I'm just saying that the fact that people are complaining about sorcs with this kind of crap going on is pretty ludicrous.

I think there are just too many salty NBs who got killed by a Sorc where against a DK or a Templar they would have escaped.

Sap Tanks are indeed easily countered with skilled players....

This game doesn't have any skilled players outside of Legends and a few people that don't run with zergs such as yourself, all a zerg is in this game is a Sap Tank's best friend, as they won't spread out and you can tank for days in them, the only zerg that's probably coordinated enough to kill a Sap Tank is IR.

And honestly, this game doesn't require skill anymore. It requires using a FOTM build and having an awareness, all "skill" is needed for is using the terrain to your advantage. That's it. 1.6 took skill out of the game and made it an AP grind fest.

Seriously? You think no other group knows how to kill a sap tank?

Like, it's not hard. Spread out, reverb bash/debuff, fear/stun, dead.

There. To groups everywhere who are not IR (apparently), you're welcome.

Also, back before I left Legends (because there was too much chat and most of it was "lol you used pots" or "lag" or "lag gf" or "X OP" etc., pretty much every major raid lead in the game was in there. All the big guilds from DC, AD and EP represented. Skilled players are everywhere, not just in the dueling meta, or alone in fields waiting to hit people off their horses.

That said, I approve of hitting people off their horses. Back in 1.3 I won the EP Award of Excellence by crit charging people off their horses!

A zerg does not require skill, it requires coordination, that's two different things. And I tried to edit this comment to give more of my opinion but I hit cancel and not save comment and I'm tired and don't feel like writing that paragraph again so.

When playing by yourself, or with a small group, you have to rely on yourself, and up your awareness, reaction time, etc. This by simple assocciation also tends to up your skill at the game, in a zerg you rely on your healers to heal, your crown to give you orders, and therefor, outside of the zerg, you're at a loss for what to do, and you're an easy kill. At least a majority of zerglings are.

As far as gankers go, @ChannelTribes is a damn good player when I bumped into him outside Bleakers, at the time, he was ganking, whether he admits it or not

But he was a good player because of his reaction time, and ability to wtf animation cancel me to death in a matter of seconds, that's a good player, not someone who runs around in a horde of 30 people and spams 3 skills and doesn't worry about having to heal themselves or where they'll go next, they listen to crown, crown dies, zerg dies, game dies.

People fetishize solo and small group play here. I mean, I know what it is, I've done it, have plenty of videos. Back in the day I think Vehemence had one of the best small mans in the game. So I been there.

And really, running a good raid is hard. it's different but you still need skill, the difference between raids with good players and those without are obvious merely from a visual standpoint alone. But you're right, it's not just about individual skill: it's about skilled individuals working together to make themselves better then their parts.

I still love small group and solo play, they all take skill to excel at. I just hate it when they get put on this pedestal of awesomeness, when really they're just part of another meta.

lol no, raid groups require coordination thats it. its like the lazy mans way to AP. because you guys coordinate healers, aoe and stack on crown doesnt mean skill at all. your just outnumbering your oponenets abusing the mechanics of the game to where the only real counter to your 'skilled' raid is another equally sized or larger 'skilled' raid. lol. i wish things like magicka detonation or siege weapons actually worked when you guys start lagging out the server.

Solo/Small group requires skill because you need to be self reliant and be able to take on large numbers greater then yourself, same with your group mates. you also need to be coordinated with your group members on setting up ambushes, traps, and kiting strategies that takes way more thought then just follow crown and spam aoes.

skilled players do do the whole zerg ball thing, but its just to take a break from actually trying to fight the hordes of no counter zergs by your self or with small groups.

Satiar

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

This was a DK, not a NB. Sap Tanks are easy to counter with skilled players.

I'm not even complaining, I'm just saying that the fact that people are complaining about sorcs with this kind of crap going on is pretty ludicrous.

I think there are just too many salty NBs who got killed by a Sorc where against a DK or a Templar they would have escaped.

Sap Tanks are indeed easily countered with skilled players....

This game doesn't have any skilled players outside of Legends and a few people that don't run with zergs such as yourself, all a zerg is in this game is a Sap Tank's best friend, as they won't spread out and you can tank for days in them, the only zerg that's probably coordinated enough to kill a Sap Tank is IR.

And honestly, this game doesn't require skill anymore. It requires using a FOTM build and having an awareness, all "skill" is needed for is using the terrain to your advantage. That's it. 1.6 took skill out of the game and made it an AP grind fest.

Seriously? You think no other group knows how to kill a sap tank?

Like, it's not hard. Spread out, reverb bash/debuff, fear/stun, dead.

There. To groups everywhere who are not IR (apparently), you're welcome.

Also, back before I left Legends (because there was too much chat and most of it was "lol you used pots" or "lag" or "lag gf" or "X OP" etc., pretty much every major raid lead in the game was in there. All the big guilds from DC, AD and EP represented. Skilled players are everywhere, not just in the dueling meta, or alone in fields waiting to hit people off their horses.

That said, I approve of hitting people off their horses. Back in 1.3 I won the EP Award of Excellence by crit charging people off their horses!

A zerg does not require skill, it requires coordination, that's two different things. And I tried to edit this comment to give more of my opinion but I hit cancel and not save comment and I'm tired and don't feel like writing that paragraph again so.

When playing by yourself, or with a small group, you have to rely on yourself, and up your awareness, reaction time, etc. This by simple assocciation also tends to up your skill at the game, in a zerg you rely on your healers to heal, your crown to give you orders, and therefor, outside of the zerg, you're at a loss for what to do, and you're an easy kill. At least a majority of zerglings are.

As far as gankers go, @ChannelTribes is a damn good player when I bumped into him outside Bleakers, at the time, he was ganking, whether he admits it or not

But he was a good player because of his reaction time, and ability to wtf animation cancel me to death in a matter of seconds, that's a good player, not someone who runs around in a horde of 30 people and spams 3 skills and doesn't worry about having to heal themselves or where they'll go next, they listen to crown, crown dies, zerg dies, game dies.

People fetishize solo and small group play here. I mean, I know what it is, I've done it, have plenty of videos. Back in the day I think Vehemence had one of the best small mans in the game. So I been there.

And really, running a good raid is hard. it's different but you still need skill, the difference between raids with good players and those without are obvious merely from a visual standpoint alone. But you're right, it's not just about individual skill: it's about skilled individuals working together to make themselves better then their parts.

I still love small group and solo play, they all take skill to excel at. I just hate it when they get put on this pedestal of awesomeness, when really they're just part of another meta.

lol no, raid groups require coordination thats it. its like the lazy mans way to AP. because you guys coordinate healers, aoe and stack on crown doesnt mean skill at all. your just outnumbering your oponenets abusing the mechanics of the game to where the only real counter to your 'skilled' raid is another equally sized or larger 'skilled' raid. lol. i wish things like magicka detonation or siege weapons actually worked when you guys start lagging out the server.

Solo/Small group requires skill because you need to be self reliant and be able to take on large numbers greater then yourself, same with your group mates. you also need to be coordinated with your group members on setting up ambushes, traps, and kiting strategies that takes way more thought then just follow crown and spam aoes.

skilled players do do the whole zerg ball thing, but its just to take a break from actually trying to fight the hordes of no counter zergs by your self or with small groups.

Saying all there is to large group play is "stack on crown and spam AoE" is the same as saying small groups are all about ganking people off their horses.

I've played all the playstyles, I run small groups, I gank, I duel, I lead raids. They all take their own skill set. Some require you to be more self sufficient, some require you to synergize more with a group. People put one above the other because they like to think it's "all them" and see the direct result of hitting the keyboard, and that's fine. But, acting as if that is the only way to excel at the game, and that all other playstyles do not take their own skillset, is just silly.

Ezareth

Satiar wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

This was a DK, not a NB. Sap Tanks are easy to counter with skilled players.

I'm not even complaining, I'm just saying that the fact that people are complaining about sorcs with this kind of crap going on is pretty ludicrous.

I think there are just too many salty NBs who got killed by a Sorc where against a DK or a Templar they would have escaped.

Sap Tanks are indeed easily countered with skilled players....

This game doesn't have any skilled players outside of Legends and a few people that don't run with zergs such as yourself, all a zerg is in this game is a Sap Tank's best friend, as they won't spread out and you can tank for days in them, the only zerg that's probably coordinated enough to kill a Sap Tank is IR.

And honestly, this game doesn't require skill anymore. It requires using a FOTM build and having an awareness, all "skill" is needed for is using the terrain to your advantage. That's it. 1.6 took skill out of the game and made it an AP grind fest.

Seriously? You think no other group knows how to kill a sap tank?

Like, it's not hard. Spread out, reverb bash/debuff, fear/stun, dead.

There. To groups everywhere who are not IR (apparently), you're welcome.

Also, back before I left Legends (because there was too much chat and most of it was "lol you used pots" or "lag" or "lag gf" or "X OP" etc., pretty much every major raid lead in the game was in there. All the big guilds from DC, AD and EP represented. Skilled players are everywhere, not just in the dueling meta, or alone in fields waiting to hit people off their horses.

That said, I approve of hitting people off their horses. Back in 1.3 I won the EP Award of Excellence by crit charging people off their horses!

A zerg does not require skill, it requires coordination, that's two different things. And I tried to edit this comment to give more of my opinion but I hit cancel and not save comment and I'm tired and don't feel like writing that paragraph again so.

When playing by yourself, or with a small group, you have to rely on yourself, and up your awareness, reaction time, etc. This by simple assocciation also tends to up your skill at the game, in a zerg you rely on your healers to heal, your crown to give you orders, and therefor, outside of the zerg, you're at a loss for what to do, and you're an easy kill. At least a majority of zerglings are.

As far as gankers go, @ChannelTribes is a damn good player when I bumped into him outside Bleakers, at the time, he was ganking, whether he admits it or not

But he was a good player because of his reaction time, and ability to wtf animation cancel me to death in a matter of seconds, that's a good player, not someone who runs around in a horde of 30 people and spams 3 skills and doesn't worry about having to heal themselves or where they'll go next, they listen to crown, crown dies, zerg dies, game dies.

People fetishize solo and small group play here. I mean, I know what it is, I've done it, have plenty of videos. Back in the day I think Vehemence had one of the best small mans in the game. So I been there.

And really, running a good raid is hard. it's different but you still need skill, the difference between raids with good players and those without are obvious merely from a visual standpoint alone. But you're right, it's not just about individual skill: it's about skilled individuals working together to make themselves better then their parts.

I still love small group and solo play, they all take skill to excel at. I just hate it when they get put on this pedestal of awesomeness, when really they're just part of another meta.

lol no, raid groups require coordination thats it. its like the lazy mans way to AP. because you guys coordinate healers, aoe and stack on crown doesnt mean skill at all. your just outnumbering your oponenets abusing the mechanics of the game to where the only real counter to your 'skilled' raid is another equally sized or larger 'skilled' raid. lol. i wish things like magicka detonation or siege weapons actually worked when you guys start lagging out the server.

Solo/Small group requires skill because you need to be self reliant and be able to take on large numbers greater then yourself, same with your group mates. you also need to be coordinated with your group members on setting up ambushes, traps, and kiting strategies that takes way more thought then just follow crown and spam aoes.

skilled players do do the whole zerg ball thing, but its just to take a break from actually trying to fight the hordes of no counter zergs by your self or with small groups.

Saying all there is to large group play is "stack on crown and spam AoE" is the same as saying small groups are all about ganking people off their horses.

I've played all the playstyles, I run small groups, I gank, I duel, I lead raids. They all take their own skill set. Some require you to be more self sufficient, some require you to synergize more with a group. People put one above the other because they like to think it's "all them" and see the direct result of hitting the keyboard, and that's fine. But, acting as if that is the only way to excel at the game, and that all other playstyles do not take their own skillset, is just silly.

I used to lead a pretty successful group in my day. We crushed our enemies and we crushed other organized groups unless we were severely outnumbered. The timing and skill required on my part was nothing like it is when I'm fighting 1vX. When I started playing solo instead of as a group player I felt like I became twice the player I once was in a month of playing. In 1vX a single mistake is often fatal. In group PvP a single player can make many mistakes (to a point) and the game is more forgiving as your team and support you and cover up your mistake. I'm not saying there isn't skill involved in group play, there is, but you don't have to reach as hard to pull out a victory because it's rare that you're actually challenged.

Think about it.

How often does an organized group of say 20 players run into opposition that actually challenges them? Most of your time in Cyrodiil is just mindless farming....the PvP equivalent of AoE grinding mobs.

On the flip side as a solo player I am challenged near continuously, and I'm constantly thrown into nearly hopeless scenarios. That to me is the challenge and the enjoyment.

I don't begrudge you enjoying group play, I've had some amazing fights as a group myself, but the days of organized groups clashing with each other regularly pretty much went away when the lag came for me, and the times I found myself challenged and enjoying myself (versus farming) became too infrequent .

None of this has anything to do with fear though.

::Looks at who he is quoting::

Tricky....tricky... ( =

Satiar

Ezareth wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

This was a DK, not a NB. Sap Tanks are easy to counter with skilled players.

I'm not even complaining, I'm just saying that the fact that people are complaining about sorcs with this kind of crap going on is pretty ludicrous.

I think there are just too many salty NBs who got killed by a Sorc where against a DK or a Templar they would have escaped.

Sap Tanks are indeed easily countered with skilled players....

This game doesn't have any skilled players outside of Legends and a few people that don't run with zergs such as yourself, all a zerg is in this game is a Sap Tank's best friend, as they won't spread out and you can tank for days in them, the only zerg that's probably coordinated enough to kill a Sap Tank is IR.

And honestly, this game doesn't require skill anymore. It requires using a FOTM build and having an awareness, all "skill" is needed for is using the terrain to your advantage. That's it. 1.6 took skill out of the game and made it an AP grind fest.

Seriously? You think no other group knows how to kill a sap tank?

Like, it's not hard. Spread out, reverb bash/debuff, fear/stun, dead.

There. To groups everywhere who are not IR (apparently), you're welcome.

Also, back before I left Legends (because there was too much chat and most of it was "lol you used pots" or "lag" or "lag gf" or "X OP" etc., pretty much every major raid lead in the game was in there. All the big guilds from DC, AD and EP represented. Skilled players are everywhere, not just in the dueling meta, or alone in fields waiting to hit people off their horses.

That said, I approve of hitting people off their horses. Back in 1.3 I won the EP Award of Excellence by crit charging people off their horses!

A zerg does not require skill, it requires coordination, that's two different things. And I tried to edit this comment to give more of my opinion but I hit cancel and not save comment and I'm tired and don't feel like writing that paragraph again so.

When playing by yourself, or with a small group, you have to rely on yourself, and up your awareness, reaction time, etc. This by simple assocciation also tends to up your skill at the game, in a zerg you rely on your healers to heal, your crown to give you orders, and therefor, outside of the zerg, you're at a loss for what to do, and you're an easy kill. At least a majority of zerglings are.

As far as gankers go, @ChannelTribes is a damn good player when I bumped into him outside Bleakers, at the time, he was ganking, whether he admits it or not

But he was a good player because of his reaction time, and ability to wtf animation cancel me to death in a matter of seconds, that's a good player, not someone who runs around in a horde of 30 people and spams 3 skills and doesn't worry about having to heal themselves or where they'll go next, they listen to crown, crown dies, zerg dies, game dies.

People fetishize solo and small group play here. I mean, I know what it is, I've done it, have plenty of videos. Back in the day I think Vehemence had one of the best small mans in the game. So I been there.

And really, running a good raid is hard. it's different but you still need skill, the difference between raids with good players and those without are obvious merely from a visual standpoint alone. But you're right, it's not just about individual skill: it's about skilled individuals working together to make themselves better then their parts.

I still love small group and solo play, they all take skill to excel at. I just hate it when they get put on this pedestal of awesomeness, when really they're just part of another meta.

lol no, raid groups require coordination thats it. its like the lazy mans way to AP. because you guys coordinate healers, aoe and stack on crown doesnt mean skill at all. your just outnumbering your oponenets abusing the mechanics of the game to where the only real counter to your 'skilled' raid is another equally sized or larger 'skilled' raid. lol. i wish things like magicka detonation or siege weapons actually worked when you guys start lagging out the server.

Solo/Small group requires skill because you need to be self reliant and be able to take on large numbers greater then yourself, same with your group mates. you also need to be coordinated with your group members on setting up ambushes, traps, and kiting strategies that takes way more thought then just follow crown and spam aoes.

skilled players do do the whole zerg ball thing, but its just to take a break from actually trying to fight the hordes of no counter zergs by your self or with small groups.

Saying all there is to large group play is "stack on crown and spam AoE" is the same as saying small groups are all about ganking people off their horses.

I've played all the playstyles, I run small groups, I gank, I duel, I lead raids. They all take their own skill set. Some require you to be more self sufficient, some require you to synergize more with a group. People put one above the other because they like to think it's "all them" and see the direct result of hitting the keyboard, and that's fine. But, acting as if that is the only way to excel at the game, and that all other playstyles do not take their own skillset, is just silly.

I used to lead a pretty successful group in my day. We crushed our enemies and we crushed other organized groups unless we were severely outnumbered. The timing and skill required on my part was nothing like it is when I'm fighting 1vX. When I started playing solo instead of as a group player I felt like I became twice the player I once was in a month of playing. In 1vX a single mistake is often fatal. In group PvP a single player can make many mistakes (to a point) and the game is more forgiving as your team and support you and cover up your mistake. I'm not saying there isn't skill involved in group play, there is, but you don't have to reach as hard to pull out a victory because it's rare that you're actually challenged.

Think about it.

How often does an organized group of say 20 players run into opposition that actually challenges them? Most of your time in Cyrodiil is just mindless farming....the PvP equivalent of AoE grinding mobs.

On the flip side as a solo player I am challenged near continuously, and I'm constantly thrown into nearly hopeless scenarios. That to me is the challenge and the enjoyment.

I don't begrudge you enjoying group play, I've had some amazing fights as a group myself, but the days of organized groups clashing with each other regularly pretty much went away when the lag came for me, and the times I found myself challenged and enjoying myself (versus farming) became too infrequent .

None of this has anything to do with fear though.

::Looks at who he is quoting::

Tricky....tricky... ( =

Meh, I'll drop it.

I didn't think it was a big stretch, but it's off topic so I'll let it go.

Back to me spamming fear. 9k Magica OP.

Ezareth

Satiar wrote: »

Meh, I'll drop it.

I didn't think it was a big stretch, but it's off topic so I'll let it go.

Back to me spamming fear. 9k Magica OP.

Over 9K?

Nerf.

Satiar

Ezareth wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Meh, I'll drop it.

I didn't think it was a big stretch, but it's off topic so I'll let it go.

Back to me spamming fear. 9k Magica OP.

Over 9K?

Nerf.

No one who sees me using cloak/fear as much as I do believes I have 9k magica. I can't imagine having more.

cozmon3c_ESO

ok, so the issue i have with fear is that every skill in this game is supposed to have a counter. fear just doesnt have one.

you cant block it, you cant dodge it. you just cant do *** against it but cc break it. and with cc break not working well with fear it just makes me want to rage quit every time i die with a full bar of stamina and cant cc break fear before i die.

other skills that fall in to the fear category
-petrify (who thought it would be a good idea to make this crap instant cast)
-the excessive range of wrecking blow, i mean the great sword is like 3 meters long and im getting hit by what exactly when im not even near the person doing the wrecking blow. flame lash is the same, like wtf how is it hitting me. they need to make melee in melee range to match the damn animations.
-bow stun from stealth, one of the biggest cheese mechanics in the game promoting unskilled play.
-magnum shot, cant cc break in the air, but until you hit the ground because the game thinks you are falling, needs to be fixed asap.

yeah so fear is not the only cheese in this game, they all need to be fixed for better responsive combat, if i hit a damn button to cc break, i better damn well cc break on the first damn press.