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Do you like the current guild-based trading system?
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Erotes✭✭✭No, I hate it and I want major changes to the current system but I don't want a global auction house.I like the current system but I think it would be beneficial to the game to allow solo players to open a shop. The penalty as a solo player would be that you can only sell one type of item like the npc merchants! Also, to open a shop, you should have to master a mercantile or general speechcraft skill line.0 -
liammozzb16_ESO✭✭✭No, I hate it and I want major changes to the current system but I don't want a global auction house.my favourite MMO had both a AH and and merchant vendors.
Any one could use the AH each city on every planet had its own one, even though you could buy an item from anywhere you would have to travel to the city on the planet where the item was put up for auction. People selling on the AH had a limit to how much they could sell an item for.
If you wanted to sell properly you had to choose the merchant profession, which gave you access to your own vendors where you could set your own prices, look of the vendor and place your shop where ever you wanted.
If they was to introduce something like this I would never go out adventuring again.0 -
P3ZZL3✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, I love it but would like to see more buying/selling functionality in the current system.SteveCampsOut wrote: »What brush? It's a well known fact that the crash of 2008 was the Wall Street Banks and Stock Exchange's fault for shoddy financial dealings.
Actually, it was all financial markets globally.
The fundamental reason for it was 2 fold. One was the CDO's being mixed with good and bad debt (I say bad, sub prime horrors) and the banks loosing faith in each other where they stopped short term lending. This was a GLOBAL action, not just wall street.
More importantly, it was only a select number of people within each bank that were doing this. That's what I was getting at. A handful of people caused it to "get rich" and making a sweeping statement like "It was Wall Street and the Stock Exchange" is a tad naive imo.CP561 Redguard | Jabsy Templar | Stamina Build
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✭✭✭ Check ESO Server Status Live!: http://eso.webhub.eu/ ✭✭✭1 -
SteveCampsOut✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, I hate it and I want major changes to the current system but I don't want a global auction house.SteveCampsOut wrote: »What brush? It's a well known fact that the crash of 2008 was the Wall Street Banks and Stock Exchange's fault for shoddy financial dealings.
Actually, it was all financial markets globally.
The fundamental reason for it was 2 fold. One was the CDO's being mixed with good and bad debt (I say bad, sub prime horrors) and the banks loosing faith in each other where they stopped short term lending. This was a GLOBAL action, not just wall street.
More importantly, it was only a select number of people within each bank that were doing this. That's what I was getting at. A handful of people caused it to "get rich" and making a sweeping statement like "It was Wall Street and the Stock Exchange" is a tad naive imo.
Regardless of that, my point that he was part of the corrupt system which had a hand in the crash, not knowing if he was or wasn't a part of the deceptions involved, still doesn't lend itself to giving me or anyone else confidence in his grasp of what makes an economy work. Coupled with his derogatory remarks about socialism and the fact that he's using it to bolster his stance on the economy of a video game really knocks his credibility out of the game for me personally. Anything else you want to add is likely going to just be political at this point and will probably get both our comments deleted.Edited by SteveCampsOut on April 10, 2015 11:07AM@ֆȶɛʋɛƈǟʍքֆօʊȶ⍟
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Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, I love it but would like to see more buying/selling functionality in the current system.I like the current system. I find it fun and unique in a day and age where game developers seldom venture into the unknown with new ideas or concepts that haven't been carbon copied.
That said, I would like to see a few improvements.
1. A default search bar. The drop down filters that were clearly designed for consoles are annoying.
2. Retain previous filter settings when checking a different kiosk.
3. Supply proper sales notifications in the mail.
4. Give us more kiosks in order to facilitate the growing population and locate them and others into more centralized markets for easier shopping.1 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭Yes, I love it and I don't want ZOS to touch the current system.SteveCampsOut wrote: »After what Wall Street did to our economy not so long ago, I'm surprised you would even dare to lay claim to such credentials, let alone think they prove something good about your knowledge of how to make a healthy economy!
Sure your brush is large enough to cover the whole of the financial markets industry?
Thankfully I left long before that.0 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭Yes, I love it and I don't want ZOS to touch the current system.SteveCampsOut wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »What brush? It's a well known fact that the crash of 2008 was the Wall Street Banks and Stock Exchange's fault for shoddy financial dealings.
Actually, it was all financial markets globally.
The fundamental reason for it was 2 fold. One was the CDO's being mixed with good and bad debt (I say bad, sub prime horrors) and the banks loosing faith in each other where they stopped short term lending. This was a GLOBAL action, not just wall street.
More importantly, it was only a select number of people within each bank that were doing this. That's what I was getting at. A handful of people caused it to "get rich" and making a sweeping statement like "It was Wall Street and the Stock Exchange" is a tad naive imo.
Regardless of that, my point that he was part of the corrupt system which had a hand in the crash, not knowing if he was or wasn't a part of the deceptions involved, still doesn't lend itself to giving me or anyone else confidence in his grasp of what makes an economy work. Coupled with his derogatory remarks about socialism and the fact that he's using it to bolster his stance on the economy of a video game really knocks his credibility out of the game for me personally. Anything else you want to add is likely going to just be political at this point and will probably get both our comments deleted.
Would a socialist economy be fun for you here? Maybe we should abandon trading altogether and login monthly to collect our alloted ZOS rubles. Then we can wait in line for 8 hours to feed our horse only to find that it's no longer our horse and has been ground up to feed the masses. Sounds fun.0 -
P3ZZL3✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, I love it but would like to see more buying/selling functionality in the current system.Here's my suggestion to it: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1715969/#Comment_1715969CP561 Redguard | Jabsy Templar | Stamina Build
CP561 Breton | Jesus Beam Templar | Magicka Build Forever!
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✭✭✭ Check ESO Server Status Live!: http://eso.webhub.eu/ ✭✭✭0 -
SteveCampsOut✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, I hate it and I want major changes to the current system but I don't want a global auction house.pugyourself wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »What brush? It's a well known fact that the crash of 2008 was the Wall Street Banks and Stock Exchange's fault for shoddy financial dealings.
Actually, it was all financial markets globally.
The fundamental reason for it was 2 fold. One was the CDO's being mixed with good and bad debt (I say bad, sub prime horrors) and the banks loosing faith in each other where they stopped short term lending. This was a GLOBAL action, not just wall street.
More importantly, it was only a select number of people within each bank that were doing this. That's what I was getting at. A handful of people caused it to "get rich" and making a sweeping statement like "It was Wall Street and the Stock Exchange" is a tad naive imo.
Regardless of that, my point that he was part of the corrupt system which had a hand in the crash, not knowing if he was or wasn't a part of the deceptions involved, still doesn't lend itself to giving me or anyone else confidence in his grasp of what makes an economy work. Coupled with his derogatory remarks about socialism and the fact that he's using it to bolster his stance on the economy of a video game really knocks his credibility out of the game for me personally. Anything else you want to add is likely going to just be political at this point and will probably get both our comments deleted.
Would a socialist economy be fun for you here? Maybe we should abandon trading altogether and login monthly to collect our alloted ZOS rubles. Then we can wait in line for 8 hours to feed our horse only to find that it's no longer our horse and has been ground up to feed the masses. Sounds fun.
You know, you really don't win any arguments against socialism when you live in a country which benefits from it from Social Security and Medicare to that evil thing we all must buy called "Insurance" which is based on a socialistic core of the many pay for the one! For every 1 Insurance claim that is made by a customer, there are thousands paying into the system who make no claims and receive no benefit! And that is also a Capitalist Dream my friend!
Try comparing apples with apples next time. I already do log in to Crowns and having to join a trade guild in order to sell to any kind of mass market while I'm AFK or outside the game. Trade guilds aren't just capitalistic here in ESO. They also only win those MulltiMillion Gold bids because they are supported by members who play raffles in the hopes of winning it big while 99.999% of those who play receive no compensation other than a kiosk if the bid isn't beaten. That is socialistic at it's core as well. It takes money from the many to buy one kiosk to benefit the guild society!Edited by SteveCampsOut on April 10, 2015 9:43PM@ֆȶɛʋɛƈǟʍքֆօʊȶ⍟
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Grumpy Kahjiti CH782 Dragonknight AD
Rheticia Le Drakisius CH782 Nightblade DC
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Sheenara Soulstrong CH782 Dragonknight DC
Erik Ramzey CH782 Nightblade AD
Growling Kahjiti CH782 Nightblade EP
One of Many Faces CH782 Sorcerer DC
Grumpasaurus Rex CH782 Warden DCGuildmaster of Pacrooti's Hirelings AD Based LGBT Friendly Guild.
Stefrex Souliss CH701 Sorcerer AD
Grumpy Kahjiti CH701 Dragonknight DC
Slithisi Ksissi CH701 Nightblade EP
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Stug-Grog M'God CH701 Templar DC
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Trixie Truskan CH701 Sorcerer EP
Grumpetasaurus Rex CH701 Warden EP1 -
Romo✭✭✭✭Yes, I love it but would like to see more buying/selling functionality in the current system.Oh wow, this poll again. I haven't seen it in at least... two weeks.
AH-HA! So you had a 2 week holiday/vacation. Hope you are rested up for the Auction house wars aka beating a dead horse with just different sticks.
There is popcorn in the lobby.0 -
Cristiano✭✭✭Yes, I love it but would like to see more buying/selling functionality in the current system.I don't mind the guild store system. What I do mind is how unbelievably awful the UI is for them without using addons. It is just bad, and has not improved at all. It's great that addons can make it useable, but why should they have to?0 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭Yes, I love it and I don't want ZOS to touch the current system.SteveCampsOut wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »What brush? It's a well known fact that the crash of 2008 was the Wall Street Banks and Stock Exchange's fault for shoddy financial dealings.
Actually, it was all financial markets globally.
The fundamental reason for it was 2 fold. One was the CDO's being mixed with good and bad debt (I say bad, sub prime horrors) and the banks loosing faith in each other where they stopped short term lending. This was a GLOBAL action, not just wall street.
More importantly, it was only a select number of people within each bank that were doing this. That's what I was getting at. A handful of people caused it to "get rich" and making a sweeping statement like "It was Wall Street and the Stock Exchange" is a tad naive imo.
Regardless of that, my point that he was part of the corrupt system which had a hand in the crash, not knowing if he was or wasn't a part of the deceptions involved, still doesn't lend itself to giving me or anyone else confidence in his grasp of what makes an economy work. Coupled with his derogatory remarks about socialism and the fact that he's using it to bolster his stance on the economy of a video game really knocks his credibility out of the game for me personally. Anything else you want to add is likely going to just be political at this point and will probably get both our comments deleted.
Would a socialist economy be fun for you here? Maybe we should abandon trading altogether and login monthly to collect our alloted ZOS rubles. Then we can wait in line for 8 hours to feed our horse only to find that it's no longer our horse and has been ground up to feed the masses. Sounds fun.
You know, you really don't win any arguments against socialism when you live in a country which benefits from it from Social Security and Medicare to that evil thing we all must buy called "Insurance" which is based on a socialistic core of the many pay for the one! For every 1 Insurance claim that is made by a customer, there are thousands paying into the system who make no claims and receive no benefit! And that is also a Capitalist Dream my friend!
Try comparing apples with apples next time. I already do log in to Crowns and having to join a trade guild in order to sell to any kind of mass market while I'm AFK or outside the game. Trade guilds aren't just capitalistic here in ESO. They also only win those MulltiMillion Gold bids because they are supported by members who play raffles in the hopes of winning it big while 99.999% of those who play receive no compensation other than a kiosk if the bid isn't beaten. That is socialistic at it's core as well. It takes money from the many to buy one kiosk to benefit the guild society!
My brain hurts from trying to follow your twisted logic. The biggest guilds have raffles. Members buy tickets as a donation to support the kiosk bid for everyone. No one expects to win but if they go its nice. Like gravy.1 -
Romo✭✭✭✭Yes, I love it but would like to see more buying/selling functionality in the current system.SteveCampsOut wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »After what Wall Street did to our economy not so long ago, I'm surprised you would even dare to lay claim to such credentials, let alone think they prove something good about your knowledge of how to make a healthy economy!
Sure your brush is large enough to cover the whole of the financial markets industry?
What brush? It's a well known fact that the crash of 2008 was the Wall Street Banks and Stock Exchange's fault for shoddy financial dealings.
You sir are dipping your toe into political waters, you sure you want to do that?
Most of the financial loses were due to government interference and almost fascistic insistence that the lenders lend to people unqualified to repay the loans.
Shall we tango?
1 -
MercyKilling✭✭✭✭✭No, I hate it and want a global auction house.Cannot stand it. And, as of today's ESO live, there was yet another resounding "no" to global auction houses. Guess this means I sell everything to the ingame vendors and screw the other players. It also means no money from my wallet. GG, Zenimax.I am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
3) Difficulty slider.
4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.0 -
bloodenragedb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭As far as the current system goes, I could take it or leave it. Trading is not a big part of the game for me.the ability to post your items in a guild your not in for a small price that is sent to the guild in questions coffers would be nice, but meh, trading is not really what i play the game for0 -
Thymos✭✭✭✭✭Yes, I love it and I don't want ZOS to touch the current system.Yep, a resounding no.
So how much effort was wasted in this fruitless attempt to convince otherwise?The Older Gamers Recruitment Thread
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http://www.theoldergamers.com/2 -
BigM✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, I love it and I don't want ZOS to touch the current system.Leave it alone for the only reason I don't believe the megaserver could handle it. We have enough problems with lag.“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
― Stephen Hawking0 -
Psychobunni✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, I hate it and want a global auction house.MercyKilling wrote: »Cannot stand it. And, as of today's ESO live, there was yet another resounding "no" to global auction houses. Guess this means I sell everything to the ingame vendors and screw the other players. It also means no money from my wallet. GG, Zenimax.
As of. Just means "yell louder." I mean its not like they haven't implemented/done anything they said they wouldn't.If options weren't necessary, and everyone played the same way, no one would use addons. Fix the UI!1 -
MercyKilling✭✭✭✭✭No, I hate it and want a global auction house.Psychobunni wrote: »MercyKilling wrote: »Cannot stand it. And, as of today's ESO live, there was yet another resounding "no" to global auction houses. Guess this means I sell everything to the ingame vendors and screw the other players. It also means no money from my wallet. GG, Zenimax.
As of. Just means "yell louder." I mean its not like they haven't implemented/done anything they said they wouldn't.
Actually, I'm done yelling. Voting with my wallet now.I am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
3) Difficulty slider.
4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.1 -
Thymos✭✭✭✭✭Yes, I love it and I don't want ZOS to touch the current system.Majority of voters in this thread say "Yes" to the question on the poll. ZOS says no to AH.The Older Gamers Recruitment Thread
Always accepting new members for NA and EU server. PvP PvE RP all welcome. Must be 25+ yo to join.
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, I hate it and I want major changes to the current system but I don't want a global auction house.Most defenders of the present system recognise the need for some changes to be made to it, as reflected in this poll, and I believe that most critics of it would accept the present system being improved to overcome the main problems with it rather than a complete change to an auction house.
I'd like to see the exact wording of what was said in ESO Live, in context, but so long as the present system excludes many players from participating adequately in trading whether as sellers or as buyers then the issue will not go away. That must be pretty clear to everyone, players and developers alike, after the constant discussions about it over the past 12 months and which have shown no signs of abating.Edited by Tandor on April 10, 2015 11:18PM2 -
MercyKilling✭✭✭✭✭No, I hate it and want a global auction house.I'd like to see the exact wording of what was said in ESO Live, in context, but so long as the present system excludes many players from participating adequately in trading whether as sellers or as buyers then the issue will not go away. That must be pretty clear to everyone, players and developers alike, after the constant discussions about it over the past 12 months and which have shown no signs of abating.
Here is the link to the past broadcast. The actual broadcast starts at 19:45 and the actual statement about auction houses runs from 32:23 to 32:46. They gave it a whole twenty three seconds.
http://www.twitch.tv/zenimaxonlinestudios/v/4015131I am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
3) Difficulty slider.
4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.0 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭Yes, I love it and I don't want ZOS to touch the current system.Most defenders of the present system recognise the need for some changes to be made to it, as reflected in this poll, and I believe that most critics of it would accept the present system being improved to overcome the main problems with it rather than a complete change to an auction house.
I'd like to see the exact wording of what was said in ESO Live, in context, but so long as the present system excludes many players from participating adequately in trading whether as sellers or as buyers then the issue will not go away. That must be pretty clear to everyone, players and developers alike, after the constant discussions about it over the past 12 months and which have shown no signs of abating.
But how does it actually exclude players? Other than the fact that some players don't "want" to join or start a guild?
There are some things I really hate doing on some of my toons. On my crafter, for example, I don't want to have to fight anyone in PVE or PvP. I simply want to craft. But I can't level my crafting without skill points and I can't get skill points without doing a lot of quests and fights.
So what do I do? I end up doing quests and fights through Vet 1 to have enough skill points to level my crafting. It sucks for me and I don't want to do it on that toon but I do. Because the end result of me having my crafter leveled is worth the pain.
Same goes for those who don't want to start or join a guild. You may not like it but it's part of the game. And you have to ask if the small amount of effort involved is worth the end result of being able to sell your wares for more than you would to an NPC vendor.0 -
Rescorla_ESO✭✭✭✭Yes, I love it but would like to see more buying/selling functionality in the current system.Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »I think it is appalling.
The very worst subsystem of any MMO I have played over the last decade.
It needs to be fully inclusive, so any player can list to sell or buy at any point in the game regardless of level, faction, zone access etc.
You know, a genuine free market.
I doubt it would resemble anything close to a free market because the second a global AH for a MMO using megaserver technology becomes available, you wIll immediately start seeing bots and gold sellers flooding the market and driving down the prices of goods. Just look at what happened to Guild Wars 2 global AH when that game went live.
A global AH is good for the convenience of the buyer but has a negative impact on legit players who enjoy crafting and try to make money off selling the stuff the make.
99.99% certain I've seen it explained when the kiosk system went live that it was designed from the start as a way prevent bots and gold sellers from infesting the game.
0 -
olemanwinter✭✭✭✭✭Yes, I love it and I don't want ZOS to touch the current system.IME economy-wide auction houses KILL crafting.
Every game (admittedly few) I have ever played with an auction house ends up with base mats worth more than the finished product.
And it's really turned me off of those games. Imagine a world where a pile of sheet metal is worth more than an automobile.0 -
dwtdwtdwt✭✭✭Yes, I love it but would like to see more buying/selling functionality in the current system.There shouldn't be such a low limit on selling items. 30 is not enough! Otherwise, I think it is a fine system."Only the dead have seen the end of war." -Plato1
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, I hate it and I want major changes to the current system but I don't want a global auction house.pugyourself wrote: »Most defenders of the present system recognise the need for some changes to be made to it, as reflected in this poll, and I believe that most critics of it would accept the present system being improved to overcome the main problems with it rather than a complete change to an auction house.
I'd like to see the exact wording of what was said in ESO Live, in context, but so long as the present system excludes many players from participating adequately in trading whether as sellers or as buyers then the issue will not go away. That must be pretty clear to everyone, players and developers alike, after the constant discussions about it over the past 12 months and which have shown no signs of abating.
But how does it actually exclude players? Other than the fact that some players don't "want" to join or start a guild?
It excludes those sellers who don't want to join a guild, those players who can't do so because they're casual and can't provide the commitment most guilds require, and those players whose guild has been unsuccessful that week. It excludes those buyers who can't access most of the kiosks because of their level or alliance as well as those who don't see the time spent travelling around the kiosk locations looking for what they want as being worthwhile so they don't bother. It is very much weighted in favour of high level players, as evidenced by the fact that most kiosk content is high level stuff even in the starting zones.Edited by Tandor on April 11, 2015 7:47AM0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, I hate it and I want major changes to the current system but I don't want a global auction house.MercyKilling wrote: »I'd like to see the exact wording of what was said in ESO Live, in context, but so long as the present system excludes many players from participating adequately in trading whether as sellers or as buyers then the issue will not go away. That must be pretty clear to everyone, players and developers alike, after the constant discussions about it over the past 12 months and which have shown no signs of abating.
Here is the link to the past broadcast. The actual broadcast starts at 19:45 and the actual statement about auction houses runs from 32:23 to 32:46. They gave it a whole twenty three seconds.
http://www.twitch.tv/zenimaxonlinestudios/v/4015131
Thanks, but that link just goes to the offline screen. The show obviously hasn't been embedded yet.
I'll check it out later, but meanwhile I gather from comments elsewhere that it was just a quick comment more on the lines of "there are no current plans for an auction house" rather than a definitive rejection of that or any other change to the present trading system. Would that be fair?Edited by Tandor on April 11, 2015 7:58AM0 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭pugyourself wrote: »I end up doing quests and fights through Vet 1 to have enough skill points to level my crafting.
Really? Once you've gotten your traits and high-end skills, it would seem like between skill points for quests & skyshards, and re-setting stats to just have what you need, that Vet 1 is a bit overkill.
As for a global guild house .... meh ... that's not very immersive to a fantasy setting
I did not answer the poll since the choices were so slanted.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
bellanca6561n✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, I love it but would like to see more buying/selling functionality in the current system.No item description field...yeah, I know, it's one of those marketplace flavor things that games stopped having once a couple of zeros were added to total player numbers.
Mostly I want to see a good sales pitch from those folks who put Ornate items up for sale...
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