zergblobs flipping flags without killing defenders

xylena

flags should take the same amount of time to flip whether it's 1 person or 100 people on them, and they shouldn't flip at all if there's even a single defender within the radius

thanks to purge negating siege damage, all you need to do is outnumber the defending force and you have a 100% chance of flipping the keep through attrition, it will not matter how well the defending force plays, the flags flip so quickly simply from throwing waves of zergling meat shields at them

AvA balance was at its BEST when purge was "broken" aka there was actually a way to counter it using ground aoe

ps... RIP ground oil

Rylana

A flag should be locked from flipping so long as even ONE person is on or near it from the faction that controls it.

Only by actually clearing it should it then unlock and be available to flip (this includes players and NPCs)

xylena

playing on chillrend NA tonight, it's apparent the organized group metagame remains the same as it always has... blob on crown, spam heal purge CC, you can't be damaged by siege and anyone that comes near you to defend the flags gets instantly stun-locked... groups on all factions do this

IxSTALKERxI

I agree 10,000%!

I got dethroned on thornblade last year because of this. I was on the back flag of my final emp keep with 30 red, another 30 on the front. It wasn't until after they flipped the keep with their zerg and took away my emp powers that they were able to get close to killing my tank build.

If it wasn't for this stupid flag mechanic I'd still be emperor alive on that back flag today. #nightblade op

Rylana

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

I agree 10,000%!

I got dethroned on thornblade last year because of this. I was on the back flag of my final emp keep with 30 red, another 30 on the front. It wasn't until after they flipped the keep with their zerg and took away my emp powers that they were able to get close to killing my tank build.

If it wasn't for this stupid flag mechanic I'd still be emperor alive on that back flag today. #nightblade op

Similar thing happened to Zazeer last week on Chill. 50+ AD swarmed the final keep vs us and even with ALL OF US ALIVE and fighting on the flag, it flipped and deposed him. The group wiped like 3 minutes after deposition. Someone even posted a vid of it.

Turelus

Came to the thread thinking it was about the player Blobs... oops

Soris

lol same

xylena

fixed title to avoid confusion for EU players

ThyIronFist

Agreed 100%.

Oughash

xylena wrote: »

AvA balance was at its BEST when purge was "broken" aka there was actually a way to counter it using ground aoe

ps... RIP ground oil

This is quite an astute observation. Purge does so much these days its remarkable to remember how tactics were different when it was bugged. With siege doing the dmg it does now though, changing purge would be catastrophic.

Valnas

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

I agree 10,000%!

I got dethroned on thornblade last year because of this. I was on the back flag of my final emp keep with 30 red, another 30 on the front. It wasn't until after they flipped the keep with their zerg and took away my emp powers that they were able to get close to killing my tank build.

If it wasn't for this stupid flag mechanic I'd still be emperor alive on that back flag today. #nightblade op

signed. There were some legit dethrones, i don't wanna dimish what was some good times in the game, but my first two dethrones on thorn 2.0, i was alive on the flag and died mortal, the third i got dc'd and came back to the popup (there was also a crash where 100 dc got slaughtered, the megaserver was a different and much more whimisical god back then.. It's not the most exciting way for it to go down and now this has become THE TACTIC.

WarrioroftheWind_ESO

The zerg is always going to win no matter what. There's absolutely no consequences to running in a blob and all 'zergbuster' options are null and void. Oh you want to set up countersiege inside your own keep? Well we'll just set up 20/20 fire trebs and target every square inch of the floor INSIDE your own keep to stop you. Oh you want to set up caltrops and oil cats? Maneuveeeers. Don't get me started on Magicka detonation either. I haven't been in a defensive siege recently that hasn't been resolved in less than 20 minutes, OR an offensive siege. Doesn't matter how many defenders are inside and how well your siege placement is, there's always going to be that large grp that breezes on past your defensive barrier thanks to the cap on aoe snare targets as well as lag.

cozmon3c_ESO

i think the less people on the flag the faster it should flip, that way if your small group, or solo are skilled enough to own everyone you shouldnt be punished by how long it takes for a damn flag to flip and end up getting zerged. this will cause zergs to try and spread out on flags a bit (maybe, but they are mindless peons) the more people on the flags the slower it flips.

hows that for backwards awesomeness. i guess you can see im sick of getting zerged after fighting through 20 enemies and npcs everywhere just to have a zerg roll up behind our 3 man group to not have the damn thing flip for 10 damn minutes.

Garion

Guys it's okay! Siege changes will fix the zergblobbing.


Oh wait

frozywozy

Also lost emp fighting zillions of DCs on the flag at Chal until I lost my powers. lol

Jakx

Good suggestions. Brian Wheeler would do well to read this since you're doing his job for him.

Observant

xylena wrote: »

playing on chillrend NA tonight, it's apparent the organized group metagame remains the same as it always has... blob on crown, spam heal purge CC, you can't be damaged by siege and anyone that comes near you to defend the flags gets instantly stun-locked... groups on all factions do this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1ARHLXW0iA

Damn right we stack on crown and heal. If they don't want so many people in one spot fighting for legit objectives, they should think smaller scale . Because they've clearly stated it's not a hardware issue, yet they've had over a year to fine-tune the code.

Why bother getting good at a game and it's tactics if the dev's discourage it?

I was with GoS when Zazeer was being deposed, and that was a load of cow-dung. I agree with you that it shouldn't be able to flip if there's a friendly Player Character within flag radius.

Tripwyr

Rylana wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

I agree 10,000%!

I got dethroned on thornblade last year because of this. I was on the back flag of my final emp keep with 30 red, another 30 on the front. It wasn't until after they flipped the keep with their zerg and took away my emp powers that they were able to get close to killing my tank build.

If it wasn't for this stupid flag mechanic I'd still be emperor alive on that back flag today. #nightblade op

Similar thing happened to Zazeer last week on Chill. 50+ AD swarmed the final keep vs us and even with ALL OF US ALIVE and fighting on the flag, it flipped and deposed him. The group wiped like 3 minutes after deposition. Someone even posted a vid of it.

Probably not a big deal, Fire Shot would have just killed him anyway.

xylena

hows that for backwards awesomeness

suggestion for more backwards awesomeness: AoE damage should amplify based on targets hit

example: hit 1 guy with a ballista? only 1k dmg... but hit 10 guys with a ballista shot? 10k dmg each

imagine the cool stuff organized groups would come up with if blobbing was punished, as opposed to remaining the "optimal" strategy for capping keeps

Agrippa_Invisus

xylena wrote: »

hows that for backwards awesomeness

suggestion for more backwards awesomeness: AoE damage should amplify based on targets hit

example: hit 1 guy with a ballista? only 1k dmg... but hit 10 guys with a ballista shot? 10k dmg each

imagine the cool stuff organized groups would come up with if blobbing was punished, as opposed to remaining the "optimal" strategy for capping keeps

The siege is already hurting stacks. It's when the lag shows up that prevents siege from working that makes it a problem. Over this last week I've already seen some very good guilds eat wipes due to proper siege placement and them failing to disperse/recognize what was going on quickly enough.

It really works. And dedicated, high quality healers can counter it to a degree, but enough of it will bring down any group. A stack of pugs, for example, will melt quickly.

xylena

Over this last week I've already seen some very good guilds eat wipes due to proper siege placement and them failing to disperse/recognize what was going on quickly enough.

that's good to hear, now we just need a way to counter purge spam... outnumbered forces have little to no chance against an organized zergball spamming purge every half second, since they've taken away every way we could counter it (oilcat snare, ground aoe explosions, negate ultimate)

at least if they fixed the flag flipping mechanism, we'd be able to try a few more oil dumps before NPCs spawn on top of us

Manoekin

xylena wrote: »

flags should take the same amount of time to flip whether it's 1 person or 100 people on them, and they shouldn't flip at all if there's even a single defender within the radius

thanks to purge negating siege damage, all you need to do is outnumber the defending force and you have a 100% chance of flipping the keep through attrition, it will not matter how well the defending force plays, the flags flip so quickly simply from throwing waves of zergling meat shields at them

AvA balance was at its BEST when purge was "broken" aka there was actually a way to counter it using ground aoe

ps... RIP ground oil

It's almost like someone should tell ZOS this... oh wait, it was one of the main issues we had in PvP 8 or 9 months ago when we had our first meeting with Brian. They didn't think it was an issue, and to this date I think that's still their stance on it.

Also it's not like anyone could have predicted the siege change emphasizing the importance of having a zerg behind you or anything.

People don't usually agree with my guild or myself when we have things to say. Then, a month or two down the line I want to post this all over the forums.

Durham

Observant wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

playing on chillrend NA tonight, it's apparent the organized group metagame remains the same as it always has... blob on crown, spam heal purge CC, you can't be damaged by siege and anyone that comes near you to defend the flags gets instantly stun-locked... groups on all factions do this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1ARHLXW0iA

Damn right we stack on crown and heal. If they don't want so many people in one spot fighting for legit objectives, they should think smaller scale . Because they've clearly stated it's not a hardware issue, yet they've had over a year to fine-tune the code.

Why bother getting good at a game and it's tactics if the dev's discourage it?

I was with GoS when Zazeer was being deposed, and that was a load of cow-dung. I agree with you that it shouldn't be able to flip if there's a friendly Player Character within flag radius.

Thank you for ruining our server with lag... BTW they can't fix it with out seriously handicaping PVE... Its no so much the code as it is mechanics BTW...

. Its not much skill or tactics to ball up and spam... BTW if you are stacking up intentionally to start the lag you should be banned... I'm all for people playing the way they want.... But if one style of play interferes with the performance of the game something should be done......

Knootewoot

Another solution could be:

Player collision. Then you cannot stack together so much again.

Proposal:

- Players cannot walk through enemy players
- Players can walk through friendly players if they keep running into them for more then 3 seconds after collision (like what Ryzom did).

Forumer-in-Prison

Knootewoot wrote: »

Another solution could be:

Player collision. Then you cannot stack together so much again.

Proposal:

- Players cannot walk through enemy players
- Players can walk through friendly players if they keep running into them for more then 3 seconds after collision (like what Ryzom did).

Wouldn't this just create a whole new zerg ball meta, Zergball of defenders blocking the keep breach, zergball of attackers forcing their way in, All spamming Aoe, CC, Heal, Purge...

you see where i'm getting at?

Observant

Durham wrote: »

Observant wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

playing on chillrend NA tonight, it's apparent the organized group metagame remains the same as it always has... blob on crown, spam heal purge CC, you can't be damaged by siege and anyone that comes near you to defend the flags gets instantly stun-locked... groups on all factions do this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1ARHLXW0iA

Damn right we stack on crown and heal. If they don't want so many people in one spot fighting for legit objectives, they should think smaller scale . Because they've clearly stated it's not a hardware issue, yet they've had over a year to fine-tune the code.

Why bother getting good at a game and it's tactics if the dev's discourage it?

I was with GoS when Zazeer was being deposed, and that was a load of cow-dung. I agree with you that it shouldn't be able to flip if there's a friendly Player Character within flag radius.

Thank you for ruining our server with lag... BTW they can't fix it with out seriously handicaping PVE... Its no so much the code as it is mechanics BTW...

. Its not much skill or tactics to ball up and spam... BTW if you are stacking up intentionally to start the lag you should be banned... I'm all for people playing the way they want.... But if one style of play interferes with the performance of the game something should be done......

Are you really that ignorant? You think we enjoy lag AND intentionally create it?
It's definitely skill and even more so tactics to stack up.

Game Mechanics are written in Coding BTW.

FireCowCommando

1) If they are going to be able to fix the servers responsiveness in the next two weeks then this problem will go away

2) More likely this is not going to happen, ZoS really should consider the suggestions here, force flipping against an entire group of 24 players who are still alive... pretty sad state to the guys trying to defend against 2-3x their force

vortexman11

Knootewoot wrote: »

Another solution could be:

Player collision. Then you cannot stack together so much again.

Proposal:

- Players cannot walk through enemy players
- Players can walk through friendly players if they keep running into them for more then 3 seconds after collision (like what Ryzom did).

Ah, this is one of the things I've wanted from the beginning of this game, the ability to form shield walls to physically block people from entering, the ability for tanks to form defensive lines infront of the squishy ranged DPS behind them, if they put this in game successfully, I'd love them forever.

iseko

vortexman11 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Another solution could be:

Player collision. Then you cannot stack together so much again.

Proposal:

- Players cannot walk through enemy players
- Players can walk through friendly players if they keep running into them for more then 3 seconds after collision (like what Ryzom did).

Ah, this is one of the things I've wanted from the beginning of this game, the ability to form shield walls to physically block people from entering, the ability for tanks to form defensive lines infront of the squishy ranged DPS behind them, if they put this in game successfully, I'd love them forever.

Quite impossible in an mmo. The exact position of one player in respect to another is never 100%correct. If they implement this you will see people hit invisiblw walls all the time because that persons client thinks there is a player there. It was the same problem with directional blocking.

ToRelax

Observant wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Observant wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

playing on chillrend NA tonight, it's apparent the organized group metagame remains the same as it always has... blob on crown, spam heal purge CC, you can't be damaged by siege and anyone that comes near you to defend the flags gets instantly stun-locked... groups on all factions do this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1ARHLXW0iA

Damn right we stack on crown and heal. If they don't want so many people in one spot fighting for legit objectives, they should think smaller scale . Because they've clearly stated it's not a hardware issue, yet they've had over a year to fine-tune the code.

Why bother getting good at a game and it's tactics if the dev's discourage it?

I was with GoS when Zazeer was being deposed, and that was a load of cow-dung. I agree with you that it shouldn't be able to flip if there's a friendly Player Character within flag radius.

Thank you for ruining our server with lag... BTW they can't fix it with out seriously handicaping PVE... Its no so much the code as it is mechanics BTW...

. Its not much skill or tactics to ball up and spam... BTW if you are stacking up intentionally to start the lag you should be banned... I'm all for people playing the way they want.... But if one style of play interferes with the performance of the game something should be done......

Are you really that ignorant? You think we enjoy lag AND intentionally create it?
It's definitely skill and even more so tactics to stack up.

Game Mechanics are written in Coding BTW.

Are you serious ?

frozywozy

Observant wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

playing on chillrend NA tonight, it's apparent the organized group metagame remains the same as it always has... blob on crown, spam heal purge CC, you can't be damaged by siege and anyone that comes near you to defend the flags gets instantly stun-locked... groups on all factions do this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1ARHLXW0iA

Damn right we stack on crown and heal. If they don't want so many people in one spot fighting for legit objectives, they should think smaller scale . Because they've clearly stated it's not a hardware issue, yet they've had over a year to fine-tune the code.

Why bother getting good at a game and it's tactics if the dev's discourage it?

I was with GoS when Zazeer was being deposed, and that was a load of cow-dung. I agree with you that it shouldn't be able to flip if there's a friendly Player Character within flag radius.

Dem DC banners.