IS ZENIMAX EVEN LISTENING?

kevlarto_ESO

Zenimax is listening and they do care. But... (list reason)

But until consoles get released nothing much is going to happen, I may not agree with how they are doing things, PC players kinda thrown under the bus until then, but that's the way it is /shrug

NadiusMaximus

Zenimax is listening and they do care. But... (list reason)

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

But until consoles get released nothing much is going to happen, I may not agree with how they are doing things, PC players kinda thrown under the bus until then, but that's the way it is /shrug

Imperial addition prerelease - 79.99
Sub from day one - $180.00
Probably has to buy new content that was announced as almost finished a year ago, but now held off (??)

Console version no sub - 59.99
Will have to buy dlc if it does not ship on the disk, which it will, but will be behind a pay door.


We were thrown under the bus, then they slammed it in reverse and backed over us, with both sets of wheels.

JD2013

So much saltiness.

Do you know, Zenimax do listen to the players. Sometimes too much. This is why we have Cadwell's silver and gold. This is why things have been nerfed repeatedly over and over. There was someone from a gaming studio (the name escapes me) who said devs should never listen to their community for things to implement into games (or something like that). They're right, they shouldn't.

All I ever see on these forums is how everyone wants this game how they want it. Never mind how anyone else sees it, they must have the game exactly their way or no way.

I agree the game has problems, but good lord these forums get toxic.

This is why we can't have nice things.

nerevarine1138

Where is the option for "Poll creator isn't paying attention"?

Kupoking

Zenimax is listening and they do care. But... (list reason)

ZoS does listen to the player base a lot. It's just that they dont show it.

Believe me, when someone posts something important here they are discussing it

Haqikah

Zenimax is listening and they do care. But... (list reason)

ZOS is listening and cares, but the forums are only a very very minor slice of the players population. So before implementing the wishes of the vocal minority, I assume ZOS retrieves statistical data from the game to verify any decision.

Besides that we do not know the direction ZOS has planned for TESO, which is something they need to take into account with any change they implement.

Nevertheless, the forums are here to voice your opinion, discuss these. I do believe ZOS is listening.

theweakminded

Zenimax is listening and they do care. But... (list reason)

I see this over and over in every game I have played "omg they don't implement what we want, they never listen"
Their game, their design, their vision. Most companies pay attention to demands, nut if it doesn't fit their goal, its wasted effort, and if you do get what you demand it is half a**ed because it wasn't intended or a goal (look at early ww/vamp balance). Even if they like an idea, give them time to do it instead of crying on the forums every day. Its pathetic.

Kublakan

Honestly, having been around many mmo since over 15 years, I find zenimax to be one of the few who are actually listening to the players. They are also very active and present on the forum. I've seen very popular mmo where devs were nearly invisible to the official player forum.

And... on the other hand, it could be very destructive and a very bad idea for a developer team to listen too much and follow ideas thrown by players without having a solid vision of its own game. All good ideas does not necessary fit into the game. In other words, a good idea might seem good to a few, but implementing it into the game could ruin it all.

And... You got to take into account that its an Elder Scroll Game. It has one of the deepest Lore, if not the deepest Lore, of any mmo currently out. I think it can surpass Lotro. So, you can not easily add good ideas when the structure is so fundamental. The Lore is a very deep pool of awesome ideas, but anything coming out of it could ruin the game. Like adding guns for example, I assure you, some players found that idea great.

Gidorick

theweakminded wrote: »

Even if they like an idea, give them time to do it instead of crying on the forums every day. Its pathetic.

This is true. The absolute shortest amount of time to plan, design, code, test, and launch an idea would be like 6 months I would think.

Things don't just happen in a weekend.

Aimelin

Zenimax refuses to listen to it's player base.

Betahkiin wrote: »

But, we are impatient and as we do not know the reality of what happens behind closed doors, we started to speculate and draw hasty conclusions.


Lag in PvE (at 4:30)

XP potions and Crown Store (at 5:17)

Siege damage and PvP (at 5:42)

And more...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRCcjxBBaKI&index=15&list=PLZng8hzxXSt6-402bM1G2UuZbtnlrMn0z


They listen and answer, just have to wait and see how it turns out.

A bunch of forum mods and community people reading forums all day doesn't rly qualify as "they listen" .....

They get answers to questions the higher ups want to answer, as proven in one of the previous eso live, where the most important and concerning questions weren't even addressed, but a dumb question about mount appearance was

Betahkiin

Zenimax is listening and they do care. But... (list reason)

Aimelin wrote: »

Betahkiin wrote: »

But, we are impatient and as we do not know the reality of what happens behind closed doors, we started to speculate and draw hasty conclusions.


Lag in PvE (at 4:30)

XP potions and Crown Store (at 5:17)

Siege damage and PvP (at 5:42)

And more...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRCcjxBBaKI&index=15&list=PLZng8hzxXSt6-402bM1G2UuZbtnlrMn0z


They listen and answer, just have to wait and see how it turns out.

A bunch of forum mods and community people reading forums all day doesn't rly qualify as "they listen" .....

They get answers to questions the higher ups want to answer, as proven in one of the previous eso live, where the most important and concerning questions weren't even addressed, but a dumb question about mount appearance was

A bunch of users browsing the forum or spending all day in the game qualify as ¨you understood the entertainment industry and the design, development and management of a video game¨?

Users perform speculative claims based on their zero experience about how to handle a project of this magnitude.

If any of the users present, is in charge of a project of identical proportions, I invite you to give the name of it so we can appreciate the successful way in which it conducts.

Gidorick

Betahkiin wrote: »

If any of the users present, is in charge of a project of identical proportions, I invite you to give the name of it so we can appreciate the successful way in which it conducts.

I think if any of us were... we wouldn't be using the forums to communicate with ZOS. We'd have other, more direct, avenues with which to voice our opinions.

Elsonso

Zenimax is listening and they do care. But... (list reason)

Of course they listen to the players, and just about anyone else who has relevant, organized, intelligent, and well expressed suggestions for the game. I know that leaves the forum here in the dust, but every so often there are interesting ideas that come from here.

Seriously, folks, look at the forum and the forum suggestions. When someone takes the time and effort to put together something and post it in here, and that effort resonates with ZeniMax, someone like Jessica or Gina will pop in and say they they have forwarded it to the development team. This is a bellwether for suggestions. If someone has an idea they want noticed, look at the threads that get noticed. Suggestions that reflect upon the game direction are probably very interesting to them. Suggestions that suggest new game directions or radical changes in how things are done, while interesting to the players, probably hold less interest for ZOS.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that ZOS actively listens. To the people who will respond to that by saying "...to the wrong people" or "...to only the _____ people", I think that they are selective, but broad, in their approach. They really listen to people who have interesting things to say.

But...

ZeniMax Online Studios is not a company with thousands of employees. They are a company with a few hundred employees. They obviously cannot do everything that gets suggested that they would like to do. If they are typical of a project has been going on for as long as they have, they could write a book about all the ideas that they like that will never be done.

They are an agile development shop, which means that they align what they are working against how important it is to work on it. This importance seems to change quite frequently. As a matter of fact, I would hazard a guess that no decision is cast in stone. They are all subject to change, right up until the last second. What this means is that players do not know, for sure, what is coming until it is about to knock on the door. Whenever they give a longer view, they end up being called "liars" if a change hits.

So, they listen, they care, but they have to be careful about telling us what they are doing because they are not 100% certain that they are going to do something until they actually do.



@lordrichter

Inactive Account

For anyone out there that has worked in an office or on a job site. Zenimax's set up is the same. For every 1 good worker you have, you need to go through 10 bad ones. A large number of "Good Workers" will not stay in a company that is, well, incompetent. Thus the cycle continues on finding good employees.

Then the person in charge of those workers, AKA, Team Leaders/Managers, are the ones who direct those people. For every good Manager there are ten bad ones and they are harder to remove.
The Management of any company are the people who are supposed to direct the flow of the work. From my experience in the work force, most, not all, of these people don't care about what anyone, "below them" has to say;. they only care what their bosses tell them.

In Zenimax's case it does seem that the bean counters are in charge, Not the people with a passion for gaming, not the people who are masters of programming, Not even the people who can weave a fantastic story line.

Like others have pointed out previously, Money runs this show, not passion for putting out a great MMO.
The bean counters don't listen to their own people, They respond to spread sheets and cost analysis; why would they listen to the people on these forums? As long as they receive cash from us, they don't have to listen.

Ffastyl

Zenimax is listening and they do care. But... (list reason)

it gets added to the "wish-list." ZOS stated on a previous ESO Live that they have a smaller staff than the average developer. Combined with all the overhauls they are doing, there simply is not enough manpower to go around and implement everything one week after it is suggested.

Also don't forget not every suggestion is well thought out!

LonePirate

Seraphyel wrote: »

They are listening, but they don't care. That's how it seems to be. Otherwise such insane things like no new content for ~ 10-12 months would never happen.

Bingo! We have a winner! I am in total agreement with this viewpoint.

Seraphyel

Zenimax is listening, they just don't care.

Ffastyl wrote: »

it gets added to the "wish-list." ZOS stated on a previous ESO Live that they have a smaller staff than the average developer. Combined with all the overhauls they are doing, there simply is not enough manpower to go around and implement everything one week after it is suggested.

Also don't forget not every suggestion is well thought out!

They could start adding what they suggested (or better said, announced) but wait... where is all that shiny stuff?

Gidorick

Ffastyl wrote: »

it gets added to the "wish-list." ZOS stated on a previous ESO Live that they have a smaller staff than the average developer. Combined with all the overhauls they are doing, there simply is not enough manpower to go around and implement everything one week after it is suggested.

Also don't forget not every suggestion is well thought out!

I KNOW this isn't directed toward my unicorn suggestion...


http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/154672/serious-crown-store-suggestion-but-with-levity

heheh

nerevarine1138

Seraphyel wrote: »

They are listening, but they don't care. That's how it seems to be. Otherwise such insane things like no new content for ~ 10-12 months would never happen.

Yeah! Remember how they didn't overhaul entire game systems just because the playerbase asked for them? And how they didn't specifically respond to player demands to lower the difficulty level of everything in the game? And how they... oh, wait. it's the opposite of what you said.

Snit

I have seen some suggestions implemented.

JKorr

Genomic wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

What a bunch of nuts. Really, you guys are insane.

This is the most responsive dev team on any AAA MMO. they have taken more action on player feedback than I have ever seen a development team take and in a shorter amount of time than most would believe possible.

You really don't appreciate what you have here.

Loud mouth entitled attitude ungrateful bunch of crazy...

Look, I don't think ZOS is as bad as many are making out, but to call them "the most responsive dev team on any AAA MMO" is truly laughable. I've played 7 major MMOs now and I'd say ZOS is about average, perhaps a bit below (in terms of overall responsiveness that is. For communication: F, see me after class).

Another thing I have a good chuckle about is people who say ZOS does or should ignore the forums because they have too many negative comments. Such a laughably childish notion. ZOS is a business. Customers pay them to provide a service. You must pay attention to feedback, in particular the negative kind, else your business will fail. Business 101. I run a small business and if I was so incredibly unprofessional that ignored negative feedback because it hurt my widdle feewings, my business would have gone under long ago.

So how many times have you answered feedback that consisted of "Your business sucks, your staff is composed of incompetent morons, every change you've made has made the game suck worse, your actions are destroying all intelligent life in this sector of the galaxy, and I've played smartphone games that are made better than yours." Without any details or reason or evidence of what sucks and why, in that poster's opinion. General ranting and non-specific bitching should be ignored. There are always people who are unhappy with something.

The constructive criticism they notice. I doubt they would ever try to respond. On the few occasions they have posted there was an immediate, "Specifics, how, when, what, who, details, justifications and complete annotated business plans or 'TEH DEVS ARE LYING AGAIN' outcry.

Gidorick

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

They are listening, but they don't care. That's how it seems to be. Otherwise such insane things like no new content for ~ 10-12 months would never happen.

Yeah! Remember how they didn't overhaul entire game systems just because the playerbase asked for them? And how they didn't specifically respond to player demands to lower the difficulty level of everything in the game? And how they... oh, wait. it's the opposite of what you said.

I would LOVE to know how many of THOSE players, the ones that complained so much that ZOS decided to completely retool endgame, are still actually playing.

Betahkiin

Zenimax is listening and they do care. But... (list reason)

Gidorick wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

They are listening, but they don't care. That's how it seems to be. Otherwise such insane things like no new content for ~ 10-12 months would never happen.

Yeah! Remember how they didn't overhaul entire game systems just because the playerbase asked for them? And how they didn't specifically respond to player demands to lower the difficulty level of everything in the game? And how they... oh, wait. it's the opposite of what you said.

I would LOVE to know how many of THOSE players, the ones that complained so much that ZOS decided to completely retool endgame, are still actually playing.

Personally I think anyone who is currently enjoying the game and want to continue doing in the future is willing to dump destructive criticism and encourage a state of excessive discomfort.

I venture to think that such comments come from users who did not get what they wanted, rule out the possibility of getting what they want and they do not care what might happen in the future.

It is a kind of virtual punishment for not meeting their expectations.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

rileynotzb14_ESO wrote: »

I have seen a million great ideas posted on these forums. And not a SINGLE ONE has been implemented. So what do you think is the reasoning for this? Is Zenimax listening? Or do they just not care?

Poll answer you forgot to put in:
Zenimax is listening and they do care. (Period).
First thing that comes to mind, provisioning changes in 1.6. They changed the recipe names in lieu of feed back.
They have "Round Table" discussions with Guild Leaders on how to improve the playing experience.
I have had dev's IN-GAME come help me with a bug I experienced.
Genomic, were those 7 MMo's only a year and a day old? Some one mentioned "Blizzard". Who remembers "WoW' at a year old? Blizz devs didn't (and doesn't) listen to players like Zos.
Elija_Crow hit it on the head with "entitled attitude". Seems EVERYONE want EVERYTHING NOW!. This game is going to be around for years. And from the excellent job the Zos team has shown in just 1 YEAR, I am willing to "Be Patient" and wait for year 2 and see what they have planned for us.
So, to answer your thread question, YES, Zenimax listens.
Huzzah!

Seraphyel

Zenimax is listening, they just don't care.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

They are listening, but they don't care. That's how it seems to be. Otherwise such insane things like no new content for ~ 10-12 months would never happen.

Yeah! Remember how they didn't overhaul entire game systems just because the playerbase asked for them? And how they didn't specifically respond to player demands to lower the difficulty level of everything in the game? And how they... oh, wait. it's the opposite of what you said.

What exactly did they overhaul? NOTHING. Please stop saying things like that.

Did they remove VR? No.

Did they improve the performance? No.

Did they overhaul PvP? No.

So what exactly has been overhauled in your humble opinion? The attributes? Wow, sure that has been sooooo much work to multiply them by 10.

No, it's not the opposite of what I said. There hasn't been content since September. We haven't got any mentionable content within 1 year besides Craglorn - that's ridiculous.

nerevarine1138

Seraphyel wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

They are listening, but they don't care. That's how it seems to be. Otherwise such insane things like no new content for ~ 10-12 months would never happen.

Yeah! Remember how they didn't overhaul entire game systems just because the playerbase asked for them? And how they didn't specifically respond to player demands to lower the difficulty level of everything in the game? And how they... oh, wait. it's the opposite of what you said.

What exactly did they overhaul? NOTHING. Please stop saying things like that.

Did they remove VR? No.

Did they improve the performance? No.

Did they overhaul PvP? No.

So what exactly has been overhauled in your humble opinion? The attributes? Wow, sure that has been sooooo much work to multiply them by 10.

No, it's not the opposite of what I said. There hasn't been content since September. We haven't got any mentionable content within 1 year besides Craglorn - that's ridiculous.

Champion System.

VR is being removed in the last phase.

VR difficulty experienced sweeping adjustments.

Changes have been made across the board to the game. Just because they didn't make the changes that you specifically wanted doesn't mean that the changes weren't made. That's part of playing a game with other people with differing opinions.

PvP is never balanced in any game ever. You might as well ask for a flying goat.

Dre4dwolfb14_ESO

Zenimax is listening and they do care. But... (list reason)

Lets put it this way.
As with all games post 2001~2005.
You will have players go to the forums , suggest real fixes to real problems, suggest real content additions that have interesting mechanics and add replay value to the game.
And you will have what I call the loud idiot minority shoot down those posts with idiotic responses like "we don't need that", "why would you want that , I don't want that!" "That wont add anything to the game", "Why add Pvp to the game, I don't like pvp".

Lets be blunt.

The only reason A LOT of people would play a game is to PLAY AGAINST OTHER PLAYERS.
Because No PVE experience can ever actually be challenging to people of moderate intelligence.

So we ended up with game designers designing LOW IQ games for a LOW IQ player base . . . everyone gets bored and quits and the game companies GO BUST and turn their games into F2P models hoping it will draw in enough casuals to keep the money flowing.


If you want the game to be good, you have to wage a campeign against the vocal low IQ population and push the agenda for improved PVP / Group Content . . . and push for the borring stuff like crafting etc... to become less important.

I look at Elders Scrolls online as a replacement to Diablo III, ESO to me is just an open world dungeon crawler . . . not an "MMO", this is why I play the game, to login kill some stuff for an hour or 2 and pick pocket (because its fun ) and then log-off.


The only way I would spend more time and money on this game is:
-Open World PvP (Player Killing Bounty System) where if you kill a player a Bounty is inured and your name turns red letting everyone know.... if a player kills you they loot your bounty from you and your bank.

-Bigger Stronger Open World bosses that take a good 12~24 people to kill but drop awesome loot and spawn maybe 4~6 times a day.

-Move Sieges outside of Cyrodil and let Guilds take over/own Keeps/castles in the open world.

-Improve mob density , increase it by atleast double.

-Improve Combat Mechanics to make them less clunky (everything feels very directional and rigid) attacks should turn with the character, instead of being based on what direction the guy was facing 2s ago when the spell key was hit.


But O/C suggesting real content additions that are both interesting and engaging and easy to implement will never work because you will have the vocal minority get on here and tell you how they want a care-bear game to slay gummy bears.


If you don't make a game interesting engaging and competitive no one will play it for very long.

Zenimax is listening, the problem is they can't hear the good ideas through the sea of garbage posts that shoot down the good ideas and request mind numbing/boring changes that don't really do anything for the game instead.

I have seen this trend with every game.

Care bears win PvP becomes impossible/horrible/not implemented at all
Game dies and no one plays

All successful games revolve around successful and interesting PvP experiences.
If your game lacks pvp its not going to be anything more than an 1 hour grind some mobs and log - off when you get bored kind of game . . . like Diablo III

The only thing this game has on Diablo III is a more interesting character creation process, and a better character progression model + more interesting loot.... I like that the game is more or less based on improving skills instead of just farming for Main Stat + Weapon DMG.

But both games lack open world PvP and thus the feeling of competition and progression feel very pointless and fruitless... and very dragged on.

Inactive Account

Do they listen?

Sure they do, somewhat.

Do they care?

You tell me.
With all the treads asking for information on crashes and lag, Two important issues (IMO) this is their Official response; from their official "Help" thread.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/105574/known-technical-issues-troubleshooting-pc#latest

Look at the last time this was updated.

I'll ask again...Do they care?

neueregel

Like the Skyrim game, at some point, they are just concerned about the next game they are working on... oh wait... is there a next game?

Gidorick

I don't play games to be challenged. I play games to experience a narrative. I'm challenged enough in my day to day life. I'm not saying I want it to be a cakewalk but I find no satisfaction in knowing that "I'm better than that guy over there". I find my personal validations elsewhere.