Why all the hate?

Trevize2888

I've only recently started reading forum threads and joining in with discussions, despite having bought ESO just after launch. And there is one thing bothering me.

I know that Gamers expect a high standard, the same as someone would want their favourite sports team to perform well, and it is human nature to complain but seriously...

There are some posts on this forum that make me question the kind of people that call themselves gamers.
Let me clarify, there are two points here.

One, I don't think it's necessary to air a grievance in an offensive or rude way, when manners and a quick message could fix the problem.

Two, What is the big problem here anyway? I am personally really enjoying ESO. I mean I'm biased because I love the franchise but really what is there that is such a big issue? And yes, some people will suffer errors and bugs that I won't, but that doesn't automatically fail the final product...does it?

Any issues that I have seen are simply the same issues that every single MMO goes through at one stage or another. Nothing more, nothing less. This game is a huge undertaking and to expect absolute perfection all the time is just unreasonable.
I mean, have you honestly cooked every single meal you've ever eaten perfectly every time?

The biggest issue at the moment seems to be the switch to free to play. This is a much bigger debate than I can even begin to write here but essentially, I couldn't afford to continue playing ESO after my trial month due to a change of job, but now I can. And I am grateful for that. And every time I hit a bug or my PC has a moment I let out a sigh and restart the launcher. But I don't lose sight of the hours of gameplay in between these moments, that I am enjoying thoroughly!

On a final note to try and lessen any offence this post may cause, this is not specific to just ESO players and really only encompasses a small cross-section of the forum users here.
Gamers seem to be the most critical of customers and I have to wonder, if everyone had the attitude of some of the people on this forum then why would games companies make anything for us to play?

Just remember, no matter what job you work in, that customer or co-worker or manager that comes to you and is rude, impatient and ill-informed (and maybe makes you want to punch them in their stupid complaining face) that's you. Every time you succumb to "Nerd-rage" about what is probably not such a big deal.

So that's that. I'm sure this will stimulate some discussion, please just remember to reply politely otherwise you're kind of proving my point.

Happy adventuring!

BrassRazoo

For one who has played since beta, I still get *** pings, massive lag spikes, eternal loads, patch manifest errors, unknown version errors, crashes, drop outs ... hjkhsdhchn ... I'm tired now.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

The happy customers for the most part are playing the game not using the forums. Usually when people come here its they either have a problem with installing etc or they dont like the current state of the game. Or like me at work with nothing to do watching the clock tick off until 9pm lol.

Valymer

BrassRazoo wrote: »

For one who has played since beta, I still get *** pings, massive lag spikes, eternal loads, patch manifest errors, unknown version errors, crashes, drop outs ... hjkhsdhchn ... I'm tired now.

Nothin' else to say but this really

Trevize2888

Fair enough to that. I'm not saying their aren't errors (and honestly that many would probably drive me insane)

I'm more focussed on the people that have one game crash and then hulk out, rather than long-time sufferers like yourself.

Have Bethesda support been helpful in any way or are you getting nowhere with it?

Valymer

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

The happy customers for the most part are playing the game not using the forums. Usually when people come here its they either have a problem with installing etc or they dont like the current state of the game. Or like me at work with nothing to do watching the clock tick off until 9pm lol.

Or we are browsing the forums while relogging in for the umpteenth time due to client crashes.

Edit: Which I quite literally was doing when I read the OP

Rohaus

Agreed. I think overal ESO is an awesome product and one that I will continue to play for quite some time. It is unfortunate but every MMO I have played always seems to have a vocal miniorty that just enjoys nothing more than to bash a game. If forums were an indicator of whether a game was worth playing, no one would play said game.

I honestly feel bad for forum moderators and any dev's that read that constant flow of negativity... I imagine most dev's either have thick skin or avoid forums altogether.

Gidorick

I'll just quote myself from another thread:

Gidorick wrote: »

Well, part of the reason the forum is rife with dissatisfaction is that no new content has come out in what.. 5 months? and we have at least 3 or 4 months left to wait.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Gidorick wrote: »

I'll just quote myself from another thread:

Gidorick wrote: »

Well, part of the reason the forum is rife with dissatisfaction is that no new content has come out in what.. 5 months? and we have at least 3 or 4 months left to wait.

I agree. We have been waiting for Wrothgar for months. We got craglorn and upper craglorn which noone likes either of them. I never see a single person asking about craglorn. People go there to farm mobs thats it. Noone does the quests. Whoever designed that area to be group only really dropped the ball. All other zones are a mix of solo (landscape) and group (group dungeons, dolmens and world bosses) content. Then they went gave us craglorn which has excessively long quests and due to phasing you are never on the same part as the next guy.

I posted this same opinion in another thread but I lost it lol. So here it is again.

Krycek89

BrassRazoo wrote: »

For one who has played since beta, I still get *** pings, massive lag spikes, eternal loads, patch manifest errors, unknown version errors, crashes, drop outs ... hjkhsdhchn ... I'm tired now.

i have the CE box set been here since beta too - i don't come on here to *** and moan and carry on like some seem to think is appropriate or deemed suitable to do. i play from aus with a ping avg of 298 ms - yes i get spikes , sine TU launched i had manifest issues out the ying yangs i run a top notch i7 rig and rarely get crashes. but i deviate from the point at hand.

coming on here and complaining about EVERY LITTLE THING, yes iv seen em all, i just think to myself what is wrong with some of you, if it's that much of a issue the alt+F4 is that way......

Krycek89

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

The happy customers for the most part are playing the game not using the forums. Usually when people come here its they either have a problem with installing etc or they dont like the current state of the game. Or like me at work with nothing to do watching the clock tick off until 9pm lol.

james hits the nail on the head

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Krycek89 wrote: »

BrassRazoo wrote: »

For one who has played since beta, I still get *** pings, massive lag spikes, eternal loads, patch manifest errors, unknown version errors, crashes, drop outs ... hjkhsdhchn ... I'm tired now.

i have the CE box set been here since beta too - i don't come on here to *** and moan and carry on like some seem to think is appropriate or deemed suitable to do. i play from aus with a ping avg of 298 ms - yes i get spikes , sine TU launched i had manifest issues out the ying yangs i run a top notch i7 rig and rarely get crashes. but i deviate from the point at hand.

coming on here and complaining about EVERY LITTLE THING, yes iv seen em all, i just think to myself what is wrong with some of you, if it's that much of a issue the alt+F4 is that way......

Are you new to gaming forums? Thats how they all are lol.

rynth

I don't have any problems and I like the game and I've been here since Beta.

The few people hate on these forums and I'm talking about those that knit pick each and every little thing. Those individuals that go crazy over anything that is new or they find whether confirmed by ZOS or not and go off half cocked without any real information. The people that go way beyond constructive criticism and flood the forums with their bile. These people are defined by these things, for them it is better to tare something down and complain about it, it gives them to collectively get together with others with same unreasonable expectations. On the other hand its rather funny how they think they are the vast majority of ESO game players. Because if you go in the game and you talk about the forums it would seem a lot of them avoid the poison that is here.

What is sad and funny at the same time is that these people will probably never realize what an *** they are sounding like and that in fact it is them that give this game a bad name. For them they think they are fighting the good fight, that they are table top crusaders. When in fact well they are acting like little kids and being jack*** .

I really do feel sorry for people in customer service for this MMO and for really any MMO not to mention developers and such. To come to work and come to these forums to only see people frothing at the mouth while they rip apart your hard work and time. When these people probably have never made something like this game themselves.

It is not what is heard, but what comes out of our mouths that cause sin for when you speak you speak from the heart.

StaticWax

This is what some ppl do. It's their hobby, just as much as playing the game is. Take something & rip it down.

This type of activity is usually reserved for those who have never actually built anything of worth themselves, so they try as hard they can to create failures for others so they are not alone in their misery.

A normal person would just move on to something else they derive enjoyment from. But not these ppl. They are like the parasite who won't move on until their host is just an empty husk.

Anywho, I like the game despite its flaws & look forward to more improvements in the future.

Cheers.

jpatek0501ub17_ESO

When you order a Burger from a nice restaurant you expect something better than McDonalds. Especially when they tell you it is.
Then you get dog food on a bun, and a promise it will be better next time. You go back cause its still a cosmetically nice restaurant with potential.
Now they tell you dog food burgers are free, but you now can buy these awesome coloring books!

Trevize2888

I'm sorry. Nothing to do with what I said at the beginning of this topic but seriously... That is a ******** brilliant analogy.

My point is would you then start shouting in the managers face, flailing your arms and upsetting everyone around you or would you try and talk to him like a human being and get the situation fixed?

jpatek0501ub17_ESO wrote: »

When you order a Burger from a nice restaurant you expect something better than McDonalds. Especially when they tell you it is.
Then you get dog food on a bun, and a promise it will be better next time. You go back cause its still a cosmetically nice restaurant with potential.
Now they tell you dog food burgers are free, but you now can buy these awesome coloring books!

BrassRazoo

Yes. I have put on my rose-coloured glasses .. all is better now.

badmojo

When you see a husband and wife with attitude towards each other, it's not always because they hate each other, there's a history that has built up their emotions to the point where they are now giving each other attitude.

It's the same with ZOS. If people feel like they've been neglected or whatever by zos, eventually, after enough neglect, they're going to have an attitude about it, and whenever something bad happens and it was the fault of ZOS, you'd better believe they're going to be all snippy and insulting about it.

This might not be true for everyone, but this is how I feel about ZOS. A year ago they could do no wrong by me, but the honeymoon phase is over and they've finally shown me their true colors. I still respect them as people, and enjoy their game, but I'm not going to sugar coat every criticism anymore. Not with the history between us.

Sinthrax

Well, honestly, if you had been here as a paying sub since launch you wouldn't ask any of this. You would fully understand.....

JD2013

Sinthrax wrote: »

Well, honestly, if you had been here as a paying sub since launch you wouldn't ask any of this. You would fully understand.....

Been here since beta. Yes there are problems. Definitely are. But screaming and creating a toxic environment helps nothing.

Sinthrax

JD2013 wrote: »

Sinthrax wrote: »

Well, honestly, if you had been here as a paying sub since launch you wouldn't ask any of this. You would fully understand.....

Been here since beta. Yes there are problems. Definitely are. But screaming and creating a toxic environment helps nothing.

In my opinion ZoS made the environment toxic. Maybe ask them the same questions?

jpatek0501ub17_ESO

Trevize2888 wrote: »

I'm sorry. Nothing to do with what I said at the beginning of this topic but seriously... That is a ******** brilliant analogy.

My point is would you then start shouting in the managers face, flailing your arms and upsetting everyone around you or would you try and talk to him like a human being and get the situation fixed?

jpatek0501ub17_ESO wrote: »

When you order a Burger from a nice restaurant you expect something better than McDonalds. Especially when they tell you it is.
Then you get dog food on a bun, and a promise it will be better next time. You go back cause its still a cosmetically nice restaurant with potential.
Now they tell you dog food burgers are free, but you now can buy these awesome coloring books!

Of-course polite at first, but if they seem like there ignoring/lying and only want your money and no care for quality it will be rude until I finally stop going. Especially with all the glitter and promises they throw in your face to try and make you forget.

JD2013

Sinthrax wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Sinthrax wrote: »

Well, honestly, if you had been here as a paying sub since launch you wouldn't ask any of this. You would fully understand.....

Been here since beta. Yes there are problems. Definitely are. But screaming and creating a toxic environment helps nothing.

In my opinion ZoS made the environment toxic. Maybe ask them the same questions?

Imagine you're in a room. A dark room. Now close your eyes.

Now imagine a thousand voices shouting out to you. "Fix this!" "Fix this!!" "You suck!" "Your game sucks!" "I hate this!" "Why isn't this how *I* want it??" And so on and so forth.

That's kind of like these forums.

Sinthrax

JD2013 wrote: »

Sinthrax wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Sinthrax wrote: »

Well, honestly, if you had been here as a paying sub since launch you wouldn't ask any of this. You would fully understand.....

Been here since beta. Yes there are problems. Definitely are. But screaming and creating a toxic environment helps nothing.

In my opinion ZoS made the environment toxic. Maybe ask them the same questions?

Imagine you're in a room. A dark room. Now close your eyes.

Now imagine a thousand voices shouting out to you. "Fix this!" "Fix this!!" "You suck!" "Your game sucks!" "I hate this!" "Why isn't this how *I* want it??" And so on and so forth.

That's kind of like these forums.

I won't argue that fact. You are 100% correct but that doesn't excuse alot of what ZoS has done. Also, some of this hasn't been fixed in months. Do they not have proficient people working for them? I could give you all my reasons but most only want to counter and not discuss so I wont .

I will just leave it as I agree about the forums but....you lie and half-butt stuff then you suffer the consequences. So here we are.....

badmojo

rynth wrote: »

What is sad and funny at the same time is that these people will probably never realize what an *** they are sounding like and that in fact it is them that give this game a bad name. For them they think they are fighting the good fight, that they are table top crusaders. When in fact well they are acting like little kids and being jack*** .

Have you ever considered that people not only realize how they're coming off, but actually intend to come off that way?

Do you realize how you yourself look when you criticize what others decide is worth complaining about? Do you realize how you look when you assume you know why a person is upset or lashing out at zos? Do you realize how you look when you're belittling peoples complaints and saying they're immature for making them? Do you realize how you look when you call people names because they dare to complain about a video game you enjoy?

Customer service reps know exactly what they're getting into, mmo, grocery store, hotel, or just about any place of business is going to have their fair share of upset and disgruntled customers that the CS rep will have to deal with, in fact, it's kind of the whole point of them being on staff. So please spare us the whole "poor ZOS cs reps, give them a break!" nonsense, they get paid to deal with our complaints, it's their job.

Jroc

I think what bothers a lot of people is that the basics of this game are great, but there a lot of problems that should have been addressed by now especially the lack of content and lag. There is nothing more frustrating then having a fun game but being unable to play/enjoy it because of lag.

Daragon

Like BrassRazoo said, now normally I'm quite passive and easy going about bugs etc. in game but tonight I kinda had enough.
I like pvp but at the moment its virtually impossible to play, first and foremost is the insanely stupid lag when you have anything more than a few (4-5) on each side. But only and I mean ONLY, if there are no other big fights nearby because if there is another big fight say at Arrius and you're at chalman (1 keep away for those that dont know) you get lag.
Secondly and possibly as annoying but kinda sets the scene for when you do pvp, is the unbelievably stupid long queue times to actually get in at all. One of the guilds I'm in is mostly pvp focused but when the guys have to wait 2+ hours just to get in at antime from 4pm-10pm UK time, most give up. Then of course when you do get in you lag...

Now all of that I could handle, I can also handle the bugs, the broken mechanics, the bad group finder, the nerfs, buffs, nerfs, etc. cycle. because that is normal mmo's. However when you cant pvp then you should be able to pve. Except now you get shockingly bad lag in 4 man dungeons as well. Tonight as an example, doing the CoH pledge. I was with a pug and for once a decent one. Good tank, good dps, good healer. Yay. We wanted to try get the achieve for CoH as some didn't have it yet. The first boss went down pretty quickly despite everyone complaining of some lag. Then we got to the 2nd last boss. Its not what I would call a majorly intensive fight for graphics or anything but we wiped 5 times purely because of lag as we couldn't see the circles she was putting down, she'd be standing doing nothing then suddenly we exploded, etc. At the last boss, Not ONE of my crushing shocks was actually visible to me, not one, when I ran in to hit with Unstable flame or any closer ranged attack where I thought he was obviously wasnt where he actually was as I was out of range of my melee skills range.

So yes we managed to complete it and get the gold key but it sucked any enjoyment any of us had at doing the dungeon right out of it. We all would have still enjoyed doing it if we'd tried and failed because someone screwed up or we just wiped for making a mistake etc. But wiping that many times through no fault of our own and especially due to lag is just plain wrong.

Add that to the fact that me and some guildies couldn't even complete Darkshade the other day when it was the pledge due to insane lag on the final boss has really annoyed me.

Now I agree that we shouldn't spew hate on the forums and I really dont like the insults especially when they get personal but at the moment I can really understand why sometimes people get very very angry at ZOS. Because they have been paying for the game since launch and the lag in cyro and now the lag in end game content is making the game (whose franchise that often they love) unplayable.

Normally after a year or so from release date MMO's are more stable and better than they were at release. ESO, may in theory be a better game but it is even less stable and more laggy than it was a year ago and that is why people are so angry, frustrated and annoyed and often lose it on the forums.

Sorry for the wall of text but I am definitely one of those angry, frustrated and annoyed people, hopefully ZOS gets this sorted sooner rather than later or I for one wont be posting any more (or playing).

Psychobunni

Trevize2888 wrote: »

Just remember, no matter what job you work in, that customer or co-worker or manager that comes to you and is rude, impatient and ill-informed (and maybe makes you want to punch them in their stupid complaining face) that's you. Every time you succumb to "Nerd-rage" about what is probably not such a big deal.

Like the new guy on the job that has barely stuck his nose in the door and yet suddenly knows better than everyone that's been working there forever? yeah him, he does make you want to punch him.

You are reading frustration of players that paid for this game, for a year and still have some of the same bugs, "debatable" lies told to them and now have to sit back and wait for the content they were promised so all this free business/console launch can be done...to name a few. Walk a mile there and get back to us.

JD2013

Sinthrax wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Sinthrax wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Sinthrax wrote: »

Well, honestly, if you had been here as a paying sub since launch you wouldn't ask any of this. You would fully understand.....

Been here since beta. Yes there are problems. Definitely are. But screaming and creating a toxic environment helps nothing.

In my opinion ZoS made the environment toxic. Maybe ask them the same questions?

Imagine you're in a room. A dark room. Now close your eyes.

Now imagine a thousand voices shouting out to you. "Fix this!" "Fix this!!" "You suck!" "Your game sucks!" "I hate this!" "Why isn't this how *I* want it??" And so on and so forth.

That's kind of like these forums.

I won't argue that fact. You are 100% correct but that doesn't excuse alot of what ZoS has done. Also, some of this hasn't been fixed in months. Do they not have proficient people working for them? I could give you all my reasons but most only want to counter and not discuss so I wont .

I will just leave it as I agree about the forums but....you lie and half-butt stuff then you suffer the consequences. So here we are.....

I am absolutely listening. I agree 100 percent that this game is far from perfect. The list of things that need doing and fixing are longer than the 1.6 patch notes. Lag. More content. LFG tool. Bugs. Balancing.

There's only so many staff at Zenimax and so many hours in the day. Prioritising would be good. Absolutely agreed. But raging gets us nowhere.

Sinthrax

JD2013 wrote: »

Sinthrax wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Sinthrax wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Sinthrax wrote: »

Well, honestly, if you had been here as a paying sub since launch you wouldn't ask any of this. You would fully understand.....

Been here since beta. Yes there are problems. Definitely are. But screaming and creating a toxic environment helps nothing.

In my opinion ZoS made the environment toxic. Maybe ask them the same questions?

Imagine you're in a room. A dark room. Now close your eyes.

Now imagine a thousand voices shouting out to you. "Fix this!" "Fix this!!" "You suck!" "Your game sucks!" "I hate this!" "Why isn't this how *I* want it??" And so on and so forth.

That's kind of like these forums.

I won't argue that fact. You are 100% correct but that doesn't excuse alot of what ZoS has done. Also, some of this hasn't been fixed in months. Do they not have proficient people working for them? I could give you all my reasons but most only want to counter and not discuss so I wont .

I will just leave it as I agree about the forums but....you lie and half-butt stuff then you suffer the consequences. So here we are.....

I am absolutely listening. I agree 100 percent that this game is far from perfect. The list of things that need doing and fixing are longer than the 1.6 patch notes. Lag. More content. LFG tool. Bugs. Balancing.

There's only so many staff at Zenimax and so many hours in the day. Prioritising would be good. Absolutely agreed. But raging gets us nowhere.

Ok, fine. But do you not think them being honest with paid customers the entire process wouldn't have cured a lot of this? I mean even an honest update instead of we working on it. Hell, they was working on it 5 years ago. Them holding back content until they can charge again for it...again..I could go on but people don't listen. Their best advice is shut up and dont complain about anything and take it. I would be more concerned if people weren't raging about the crap they have pulled.

I would like to say I do enjoy the game. I don't have the pve lag everyone keeps speaking about..only pvp. I don't suffer from all the problems other do. The biggest thing with me is integrity and they have none left in my book.

Gilvoth

JD2013 wrote: »

Sinthrax wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Sinthrax wrote: »

Well, honestly, if you had been here as a paying sub since launch you wouldn't ask any of this. You would fully understand.....

Been here since beta. Yes there are problems. Definitely are. But screaming and creating a toxic environment helps nothing.

In my opinion ZoS made the environment toxic. Maybe ask them the same questions?

Imagine you're in a room. A dark room. Now close your eyes.

Now imagine a thousand voices shouting out to you. "Fix this!" "Fix this!!" "You suck!" "Your game sucks!" "I hate this!" "Why isn't this how *I* want it??" And so on and so forth.

That's kind of like these forums.

zenimax upper management let it build to that point, when we started here over a year ago it was not like this, it was prety much roses and petals all the way ...
total trust and kind words was all i had for eso back then.