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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653550/

How Normal is Healer Abuse?

  • driosketch
    driosketch
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    Huntler wrote: »
    driosketch wrote: »
    I've never been yelled at as a healer. But I also might being doing any number of different things then you, from running with the right group of players, to being just an awesome healer, to being the unofficial healer where players don't recognize me as someone to blame because I'm in heavy armor.

    :| , little full of ourselves are we?
    Because I think one of the reasons I don't get hate tells in PvP is that I'm not seen as relevant?
    Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
    ●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●
  • Tal_72
    Tal_72
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    FENGRUSH wrote: »
    Fengrush understands the agony of bearing a woman as healer. In the future itd just be best to apologize to everyone in your party and move on to try again.

    Not sure if serious....or stupid.
  • Davadin
    Davadin
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    Emily wrote: »
    Emily wrote: »
    I've recently just gotten back to the country and game, and started some Cyrodiil. Lately I've seen (and received) a fair amount of healer abuse, and on one event I felt just like dropping the game altogether again, as it wasn't worth the aggravation and harassment.

    Is it a common occurrence to yell and/or berate healers?
    It's one thing to offer constructive criticism, it's quite another to be blamed solely for a groups failure. Even the best healers would have a hard time keeping someone alive with 14k HP standing in an AoE. If you feel that you have been unfairly blamed I would suggest simply finding new people to group with instead of just quitting the game. Basically just stay away from toxic people, but also keep an open mind to constructive criticism.

    lol well, it's not that. It was a random pug. I've never had problems with npk or LoM or any of them. Like, this guy died in the middle of a besieged, narrow corridor that was bombarded with caltrops and ballistas and two dozen enemies on his body. I told him I couldn't resurrect him, so he starts with the expletives, so his friend who was the leader removes me from the group. Which would have been fine, I am okay with that; but it didn't end there, his friends start messaging me with sexist, derogatory insults and I just got tired of putting people on my ignore list and logged off.

    da ***?

    *** that group.

    i'm no healer and i die a LOT but i would NEVER abuse healers in Cyro.

    in PvE, well, not abused, but in a close group if the healer knows exactly what their job and intentionally decide NOT to do it... then sure, i could get a little... tensed... rage quit or what not.


    sorry i just think the idea people abusing others in an MMO is just ridicolous.
    August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
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  • Evandus
    Evandus
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    So, I actually decided to run my Templar healer yesterday...

    I have to admit it was a bit more harrowing than I recall. I stopped running that character because of people like you describe. Standing in the big red circle typing insulting things until they die. I mean, you can only cast so many BOL's before you are out of sp. I recall that guy using the up arrow key to spam chat with vitrol to the point I couldn't even suggest in group an alternative method. It was difficult enough then running in pugs imo.

    It seems like there needs to be even more group based play nowadays for non optimized characters. I felt bad because I ran with a pug group and my sp would run dry quickly because people weren't blocking or using avoidance. They were running this group dungeon like it was AA or something. Stack on the boss, ignore adds/mechanics, and type disparaging things when that failed.

    Pugs are a real mixed bag. You find a lot of tanks that don't taunt, dps that love to complain, etc. However you also run into some pretty cool people. Like the folks that asked me in tells to help the run the non vet daily. I was disappointed with the fact that our dungeon lagged out so badly we couldn't finish. Although they weren't optimized or top tier players, they were so much fun to run with I would have happily spent up my entire stack of pots I had on hand to get it done.

    Another time I was running my main, a tank, and ran into some top tiered, optimized players that made me wonder why they needed a tank to begin with. It's part of the fun of it all.

    My best suggestion is that if people like you are describing are getting to you it's better to find more fun people to run with. Regardless of your skill level, things will fail most often in groups when the players not doing the healing can't be bothered to adhere to baseline mechanics. The jerks are numerous and the fun people are few. Identifying a train wreck early is important.

    Oh, and one more thing. If people persist in sending you nasty tells after you are gone in abundance, that's harassment. Right click and report that mess. Let the GM's deal with them. Most of the reason this behavior persists is because people so often let them get away with ruining their gaming experience...
    Emily wrote: »
    I've recently just gotten back to the country and game, and started some Cyrodiil. Lately I've seen (and received) a fair amount of healer abuse, and on one event I felt just like dropping the game altogether again, as it wasn't worth the aggravation and harassment.

    Is it a common occurrence to yell and/or berate healers?

    Edited by Evandus on March 31, 2015 9:38PM
  • Curragraigue
    Curragraigue
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    I've never yelled at or complained about heals, any heal or shield received is appreciated. I have however complemented healers before.

    The scenario you have described of someone demanding that you rez them in a narrow breach covered in caltrops and being hit be siege is not a healer issue it is a an issue of the group you were in have no clue what they were doing or had no appreciation of the situation situation. Ignore those players and join an organised guild that knows what they are doing, the game becomes a lot more enjoyable.
    PUG Life - the true test of your skill

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  • vortexman11
    vortexman11
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    Fix: Don't heal them at all, see how they like it.
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  • tengri
    tengri
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    First lesson you need to learn and believe in as healer: it is never your fault.
    Do not let any insults get to you - it is always that next idiot not blocking, his standing in red circles, his inferior gear or him just generally being clueless.
    It is never your fault. Say it. Now.
    And most importantly: believe it.

  • newtinmpls
    newtinmpls
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    Emily wrote: »
    I've recently just gotten back to the country and game, and started some Cyrodiil. Lately I've seen (and received) a fair amount of healer abuse, and on one event I felt just like dropping the game altogether again, as it wasn't worth the aggravation and harassment.

    Is it a common occurrence to yell and/or berate healers?

    WTF and other cuss words that surely would get edited by the ZOS staff. A healer is the person who keeps the group alive.

    Drop the jerks you are healing. If crap like that happens, say your reserved good byes and log the heck out.

    Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
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    ***
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  • newtinmpls
    newtinmpls
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    Emily wrote: »
    this guy died in the middle of a besieged, narrow corridor that was bombarded with caltrops and ballistas and two dozen enemies on his body. I told him I couldn't resurrect him, so he starts with the expletives, so his friend who was the leader removes me from the group. Which would have been fine, I am okay with that; but it didn't end there, his friends start messaging me with sexist, derogatory insults and I just got tired of putting people on my ignore list and logged off.

    Truly depends on the context - more than that - When grouping with friends in Cyrodiil, I ran into that problem - turns out that the soul gems a couple people had were not able to resurrect everyone. There are also times when the fight is too rough to resurrect - you have to spam healing, and can't spend the time to "hold" the soul gem.

    That being said, everyone should be able to resurrect themselves and all other party members (so that IF someone dies during a "you can't resurrect yourself till the end of the fight" issue, someone - anyone - can do it).

    All that being said, foul language and being kicked from a group in the midst of a delve is good reason to never group up with those folks again.

    Ever. Frankly
    Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
    Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
    Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
    Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.
    ***
    Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
    House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
    Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis
  • Elara_Northwind
    Elara_Northwind
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    I have had this problem too. Usually with groups that are so intent on dying that they literally just stand there in the centre of a big red circle whilst I power heal them, and then claim that it is my fault when they inevitably drop down dead on the floor. This is why I do not do dungeons with random groups anymore...
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  • akredon_ESO
    akredon_ESO
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    Dont let people yelling at you, make you not like the game. Most people that have that toxic behavior i just ignore we all play the same game there's no point in being a complete *** to your fellow players. What @Emily faction you play i wouldn't mind playing with ya ^^
    Edited by akredon_ESO on April 1, 2015 1:35AM
  • Hookgrin
    Hookgrin
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    Xendyn wrote: »
    You can't heal stupid

    I so want to dye that on my Healer's armor!

    Funny thing is, us Healer's are the ones who know who all the good players really are. While everyone is focused on their targets, we are focused on everyone's health bars. We see how rapidly your health drops. We see how many times we have to pump it up again. I have pumped 4 to 5 lifetimes worth of HP into players and when they win, they go on about how great they are. Yeah, we know how great. Oftentimes when we die, it is because we depleted our resources trying to keep your sorry arse alive. Don't get me wrong, I am there for the new and learning players. Not everyone who is a challenge to heal is a problem, just the ones who don't appreciate it. No one should ever question our dedication to the group as support is what we are all about. There are some arses out there, I try to see the comedy in their behavior and just laugh it off. To all who have chosen Healing as their vocation, you have already proven you are better than they are.

    And thank you Xendyn and everyone else for your support for Healers. Thank you all in advance for your protection and rezzes. Unless of course you are on the wrong side, then I got a Blazing Spear in my back pocket for you. Yeah I'll look silly as I futilely attempt to defend myself, but a least I died trying!
  • Jauriel
    Jauriel
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    Emily wrote: »
    Emily wrote: »
    I've recently just gotten back to the country and game, and started some Cyrodiil. Lately I've seen (and received) a fair amount of healer abuse, and on one event I felt just like dropping the game altogether again, as it wasn't worth the aggravation and harassment.

    Is it a common occurrence to yell and/or berate healers?
    It's one thing to offer constructive criticism, it's quite another to be blamed solely for a groups failure. Even the best healers would have a hard time keeping someone alive with 14k HP standing in an AoE. If you feel that you have been unfairly blamed I would suggest simply finding new people to group with instead of just quitting the game. Basically just stay away from toxic people, but also keep an open mind to constructive criticism.

    lol well, it's not that. It was a random pug. I've never had problems with npk or LoM or any of them. Like, this guy died in the middle of a besieged, narrow corridor that was bombarded with caltrops and ballistas and two dozen enemies on his body. I told him I couldn't resurrect him, so he starts with the expletives, so his friend who was the leader removes me from the group. Which would have been fine, I am okay with that; but it didn't end there, his friends start messaging me with sexist, derogatory insults and I just got tired of putting people on my ignore list and logged off.

    Glad to hear your experience with NPK is good. I am always looking for healers and we reward them with soul gems and other goodies when they are loyal to us. Unfortunately, DC has its share of inconsiderate pugs who seek to only cause trouble.
  • thelordoffelines
    thelordoffelines
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    I personally think you should tell us these peoples names so we can blacklist them until they send you a formal apology. Seriously sexist comments? They must be really insecure about their skills.
  • Tintinabula
    Tintinabula
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    I hate to admit it but blaming the healer is really laziness on the blamers part. My BF has a temp character that he simply doesn't play anymore..cause i always expected him to heal me lol..ya know..where TF were you?!!??!!..so..he plays his NB or his sorc..and I learned to heal myself and not play as stupid as before :p (had to add "as before". I still play stupid) ;)
    Edited by Tintinabula on April 1, 2015 3:45AM
  • akredon_ESO
    akredon_ESO
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    Jauriel wrote: »
    Emily wrote: »
    Emily wrote: »
    I've recently just gotten back to the country and game, and started some Cyrodiil. Lately I've seen (and received) a fair amount of healer abuse, and on one event I felt just like dropping the game altogether again, as it wasn't worth the aggravation and harassment.

    Is it a common occurrence to yell and/or berate healers?
    It's one thing to offer constructive criticism, it's quite another to be blamed solely for a groups failure. Even the best healers would have a hard time keeping someone alive with 14k HP standing in an AoE. If you feel that you have been unfairly blamed I would suggest simply finding new people to group with instead of just quitting the game. Basically just stay away from toxic people, but also keep an open mind to constructive criticism.

    lol well, it's not that. It was a random pug. I've never had problems with npk or LoM or any of them. Like, this guy died in the middle of a besieged, narrow corridor that was bombarded with caltrops and ballistas and two dozen enemies on his body. I told him I couldn't resurrect him, so he starts with the expletives, so his friend who was the leader removes me from the group. Which would have been fine, I am okay with that; but it didn't end there, his friends start messaging me with sexist, derogatory insults and I just got tired of putting people on my ignore list and logged off.

    Glad to hear your experience with NPK is good. I am always looking for healers and we reward them with soul gems and other goodies when they are loyal to us. Unfortunately, DC has its share of inconsiderate pugs who seek to only cause trouble.

    :open_mouth: I sense Desion in the DC ranks ?! .... EP must exploit this ! :tongue: ... @Jauriel What other intel do you have to share :wink:
  • Manoekin
    Manoekin
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    Join AD and come heal with us.
  • Shunravi
    Shunravi
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    This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!
  • Winnamine
    Winnamine
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    Emily wrote: »
    Emily wrote: »
    I've recently just gotten back to the country and game, and started some Cyrodiil. Lately I've seen (and received) a fair amount of healer abuse, and on one event I felt just like dropping the game altogether again, as it wasn't worth the aggravation and harassment.

    Is it a common occurrence to yell and/or berate healers?
    It's one thing to offer constructive criticism, it's quite another to be blamed solely for a groups failure. Even the best healers would have a hard time keeping someone alive with 14k HP standing in an AoE. If you feel that you have been unfairly blamed I would suggest simply finding new people to group with instead of just quitting the game. Basically just stay away from toxic people, but also keep an open mind to constructive criticism.

    lol well, it's not that. It was a random pug. I've never had problems with npk or LoM or any of them. Like, this guy died in the middle of a besieged, narrow corridor that was bombarded with caltrops and ballistas and two dozen enemies on his body. I told him I couldn't resurrect him, so he starts with the expletives, so his friend who was the leader removes me from the group. Which would have been fine, I am okay with that; but it didn't end there, his friends start messaging me with sexist, derogatory insults and I just got tired of putting people on my ignore list and logged off.

    No one think they're a bad player.
    He's dead all the time and has to rationalize it somehow, he probably deals with lots of "bad" healers, and "lag", and "broken" skills being used against him, and whatever other excuses bad players use to explain why they suck.
    Now I've no idea if you're a good healer or not, but in this case, well.. he was dead, in a corridor full of siege and caltrops, with 24 enemies on his body, and the rest of his group obviously wasn't dead there with him, and then he blames the healer.... yeah, he sounds like a brilliant player. I'll bet guilds are dying to recruit that gem.
    Winni
    ~
    VE
    Decibel
  • Frawr
    Frawr
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    I have never experienced this. More of an issue on the US server?

    Honestly, healers are a commodity. if someone repeatedly stands in the red circle repeatedly then let then learn The hard way. If they whine then leave and jump into a different group.
  • Rylana
    Rylana
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    If someone gives you a hard time, reply with the line

    "Be damn happy you even have a healer, we are a dying breed so shut your pie hole"

    Oughta fix them real quick.
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  • C0pp3rhead
    C0pp3rhead
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    I have never encountered healer abuse. Then again, I hate running with pugs. Ask around in your guilds about solid PvP guilds and how to group up with them. Sometimes it's as simple as typing the right string of letters into zone chat. And if ever you get blamed, here is the infallible excuse:

    "You weren't on crown."
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  • Kas
    Kas
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    What's "healer abuse"? People blaming healers because they don't know how to play? LoL! Have fun trying that while on TS with me...

    It's ALWAYS the same players who die alot. Very easy to point that out. Even better to tell them they're not blocking/moving properly every time you have to flash for them rather than the rest of the group.

    I have never heard much hate on healers. Usually the only people getting critizied are those that are dead a lot. Even more so if they die in places they shouldn't be.

    Imho it's super easy in ESO to heal targets that know what they're doing (after all, they will last more than 10sec against 10 players targetting them) and it's pretty much impossible to heal someone that doesn't (gets hit by lethal arrow without block, no attempt to break the stun, realy to hit more shots).

    It's much harder to supply good players under fire with stamina (repentance / spear shards) and maybe a speedbuff so they can keep up their def. Especially once your group reaches a certain size, it's pretty hard to stay on top of the battle, see where the enemy engages and when players can be safed by a bit of stamina and/or a retreating maneuver and when they have to be abandoned so you don't end up caught as well.

    However, I haven't seen anyone mad because I failed doing so properly.
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  • bellanca6561n
    bellanca6561n
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    Sypher wrote: »
    Don't stand for any abuse. You aren't anyone's crutch!

    In six decades I've yet to encounter anyone using crutches who didn't need them to move. It's a figure of speech that should be retired but it's useful here.

    I've used them myself since '68 but I don't blame them if I take a fall. Folks will blame healers, however. In PvE they love to blame tanks too.

    However, both of those roles in this game are different than in most trinity based online games.

    The icing metaphor is a good one. Some groups can do well without it. Some don't even notice it which is what I found strange...what were they thinking....that it was Arkay who was sore aggrieved by the fellow's rapidly diminishing health that divine intervention took place? Yet they DO notice the healer....when she dies.

    The light armor remark was spot on too. 1.6 made it hard on healers, not just because it was more challenging to keep all those dress wearing warriors alive, but because those same manly men in drag refused to recognize their fresh status as squishy things.

    And I agree the icing should be chocolate.
  • BRogueNZ
    BRogueNZ
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    Remember names. Let them burn.
  • Rune_Relic
    Rune_Relic
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    Emily wrote: »
    Emily wrote: »
    I've recently just gotten back to the country and game, and started some Cyrodiil. Lately I've seen (and received) a fair amount of healer abuse, and on one event I felt just like dropping the game altogether again, as it wasn't worth the aggravation and harassment.

    Is it a common occurrence to yell and/or berate healers?
    It's one thing to offer constructive criticism, it's quite another to be blamed solely for a groups failure. Even the best healers would have a hard time keeping someone alive with 14k HP standing in an AoE. If you feel that you have been unfairly blamed I would suggest simply finding new people to group with instead of just quitting the game. Basically just stay away from toxic people, but also keep an open mind to constructive criticism.

    lol well, it's not that. It was a random pug. I've never had problems with npk or LoM or any of them. Like, this guy died in the middle of a besieged, narrow corridor that was bombarded with caltrops and ballistas and two dozen enemies on his body. I told him I couldn't resurrect him, so he starts with the expletives, so his friend who was the leader removes me from the group. Which would have been fine, I am okay with that; but it didn't end there, his friends start messaging me with sexist, derogatory insults and I just got tired of putting people on my ignore list and logged off.

    Report every single one of them.
    They have broken the TOS.
    You don't have to take that crap from anyone.

    Unfortunately the price of going BTP has obviously allowed a few scum to invade the servers.
    I was amazed at the decency of my fellow travellers when it was subscrition based
    I admit that ....as one of the people that derided ZOS for their sub model.

    I rely on self healing and damage avoidance most of the time.
    Being healed is a bonus and much appreciated.
    Edited by Rune_Relic on April 1, 2015 11:01AM
    Anything that can be exploited will be exploited
  • Domander
    Domander
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    BRogueNZ wrote: »
    Remember names. Let them burn.

    and then after you watch them die, make sure they know that you let them, and why.

    It's ridiculous that anyone would complain about a healer.



    oh, and tell them to stop sucking and stealing smart heals meant for decent players.
    Edited by Domander on April 1, 2015 11:06AM
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    We're still talking about PvP right?

    I never understand how people blame their deaths in PvP on others. Unless it's a case of "we were all sneaking and that guy was casting spells" or sth like that.

    There are no pure DPS or pure Tank roles in PvP. Everyone has a responsibility to heal or otherwise protect themselves and I see any heals I get from a healer as a very welcome gift. Never base your (PvP) survival on the existence of someone else and you'll be a far better player for it.

    Also damage is so high in 1.6 from players or siege, that I don't know what players expect healers to do? If you stand in siege what do you want from then, to heal you when being one-shotted?
    EU | PC | AD
  • Jauriel
    Jauriel
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    Jauriel wrote: »
    Emily wrote: »
    Emily wrote: »
    I've recently just gotten back to the country and game, and started some Cyrodiil. Lately I've seen (and received) a fair amount of healer abuse, and on one event I felt just like dropping the game altogether again, as it wasn't worth the aggravation and harassment.

    Is it a common occurrence to yell and/or berate healers?
    It's one thing to offer constructive criticism, it's quite another to be blamed solely for a groups failure. Even the best healers would have a hard time keeping someone alive with 14k HP standing in an AoE. If you feel that you have been unfairly blamed I would suggest simply finding new people to group with instead of just quitting the game. Basically just stay away from toxic people, but also keep an open mind to constructive criticism.

    lol well, it's not that. It was a random pug. I've never had problems with npk or LoM or any of them. Like, this guy died in the middle of a besieged, narrow corridor that was bombarded with caltrops and ballistas and two dozen enemies on his body. I told him I couldn't resurrect him, so he starts with the expletives, so his friend who was the leader removes me from the group. Which would have been fine, I am okay with that; but it didn't end there, his friends start messaging me with sexist, derogatory insults and I just got tired of putting people on my ignore list and logged off.

    Glad to hear your experience with NPK is good. I am always looking for healers and we reward them with soul gems and other goodies when they are loyal to us. Unfortunately, DC has its share of inconsiderate pugs who seek to only cause trouble.

    :open_mouth: I sense Desion in the DC ranks ?! .... EP must exploit this ! :tongue: ... @Jauriel What other intel do you have to share :wink:

    No not dissention among the guilds. Just overall fatigue of dealing with the dumb DC pugs who never listen and only serve to disrupt the zone. :(
    Edited by Jauriel on April 1, 2015 11:17AM
  • eliisra
    eliisra
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    I never had any of that on my templar healer. There's a major lack of healers in pugs, there's a major lack of healers in many organised guilds to. If you heal in PvP, people will love you unconditionally, in my experience. I even get awkward tells from randoms about me being awesome, that's how much people love a healer in PvP.

    My only feeling of abuse comes from the fact that no one else wants to do it (because face it healing is sort of boring and unrewarding at times), so I've been in groups trying to solo heal 20 people more than once. Than people not watching your back, on top of you being the only healer taking a ton of focus. It's frustrating. That's what makes me log my sorc or NB instead.

    @Emily: Those guys you grouped with where total rejects, keep that in mind. Because it's not the healers main job to revive every looser in combat. If you run around reviving people, than your group aren't getting heals and more will die. If someone is dead in a tricky location, loads of siege, snipers and AoE, it's usually better if one of the tankier dps'ers picks him up. That way the healer can keep the reviver guy alive from range and you wont loose another player to. Outside of that, it's everyone's bloody responsibility to get people up.
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