@ZOS When are VR levels going away (step 1)? Just remove character VR levels and open up VR items

NewBlacksmurf

I know it was mentioned on live twitch ask the devs months back but then we hear that it will be here until after console launch.
I understand there may be challenges and lots of things to figure out but keeping them around seems odd now that the champion system is here.

Considering we can earn hundreds of champion points and get really strong overtime I'm asking one thing...


Can I ask that you remove the VR levels from our characters only
Also remove the VR level restrictions for any VR item, armor, weapon to level 50 OR to specific champion levels.
Even if 1CP equals VR1 armor, weapons, potion requirements it's a great step in the right direction.


Just hoping to have this phased out by June/July.

Tavore1138

I don't get what you are expecting removing VR levels to bring to the game at this point?

You still have a lot of XP to earn to get CP. You still, presumably, will need to get the best type of weapons whether they are called VR14 or '50++'. You will still have to quest through the VR1-10 areas to get skills, items, achieves, skyshards and so on.

Also if after the recent changes they remove 13 skill points and equivalent stat points from everyone who has reached VR14 and similar removals from anyone VR1 or higher then they will probably face an armed uprising.

I've never really understood what the beef is with the VR levels themselves - I get that some don't like questing (although why you'd not expect questing in an online game based on the biggest questing RPG series is another question), I get that some have issue with immersion and offering other ways to level is always good - but levels are just levels... how does the game become better if you remove 14 levels?

Guppet

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

I don't get what you are expecting removing VR levels to bring to the game at this point?

You still have a lot of XP to earn to get CP. You still, presumably, will need to get the best type of weapons whether they are called VR14 or '50++'. You will still have to quest through the VR1-10 areas to get skills, items, achieves, skyshards and so on.

Also if after the recent changes they remove 13 skill points and equivalent stat points from everyone who has reached VR14 and similar removals from anyone VR1 or higher then they will probably face an armed uprising.

I've never really understood what the beef is with the VR levels themselves - I get that some don't like questing (although why you'd not expect questing in an online game based on the biggest questing RPG series is another question), I get that some have issue with immersion and offering other ways to level is always good - but levels are just levels... how does the game become better if you remove 14 levels?

Because it's not 14 levels! Is 14 extra extra long levels. It's like saying a marathon is just going for a run.

It's the fact that after you take out the games end bad guy, your only a third of the way through the level process. With the other 2 thirds being factions you did not choose. No other game does this, because it's utterly stupid.

They only serve as a barrier to the actual end game content, they spread the player base too thin. Level 50+ items/content would be usable by a far larger part of the player base than VR14 items/content.

Are people really still not getting why people disliked VR? Or are they just VR14's wanting to see other people having to do what they did?

NewBlacksmurf

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

I don't get what you are expecting removing VR levels to bring to the game at this point?

You still have a lot of XP to earn to get CP. You still, presumably, will need to get the best type of weapons whether they are called VR14 or '50++'. You will still have to quest through the VR1-10 areas to get skills, items, achieves, skyshards and so on.

Also if after the recent changes they remove 13 skill points and equivalent stat points from everyone who has reached VR14 and similar removals from anyone VR1 or higher then they will probably face an armed uprising.

I've never really understood what the beef is with the VR levels themselves - I get that some don't like questing (although why you'd not expect questing in an online game based on the biggest questing RPG series is another question), I get that some have issue with immersion and offering other ways to level is always good - but levels are just levels... how does the game become better if you remove 14 levels?

The point of removing VR character specific levels is to allow the champion system to have value.
The VR system has no value but instead creates separation, pushes people to grind if they make an alt, prevents many from enjoying friends and parties due to a senseless VR level.

The game allows any VR1 to go to Craglorn but the min level is VR10. People don't mind leveling to do content but now having VR levels AND champion points is just odd.

It's not that people don't want to quest but people don't want to play the game in each faction per character just to get to Vr10. By design VR levels were there to give players something to achieve until Craglorn released. It came out months ago

Silver and gold quests are cool IF you haven't played the other factions as an alt. silver and gold quests should be optional and not required.

IF ZOS provided some form of questing that is available at VR1 but not requiring PvP that offsets silver and gold quests this would be good but VR levels still don't fit in. how silly is it to be forced to play through all factions per character over and over again just to hit a VR level so that you can play with others PvE or PvP and be a contributor when the champion system also exists.

How silly is it to gain account wide champion points if you still have to VR level after 50.
This isn't a single player game. It's not Diablo it's one massive server full of people to play with but we are limited.

Quest phasing, solo only quests phased, faction limatations but then at the last solo quest main story you then can go play through other factions.

This VR level issue is just one road block that needs to go away due to champion system being better and a more viable way to handle post 50 leveling

Vahrokh

Guppet wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

I don't get what you are expecting removing VR levels to bring to the game at this point?

You still have a lot of XP to earn to get CP. You still, presumably, will need to get the best type of weapons whether they are called VR14 or '50++'. You will still have to quest through the VR1-10 areas to get skills, items, achieves, skyshards and so on.

Also if after the recent changes they remove 13 skill points and equivalent stat points from everyone who has reached VR14 and similar removals from anyone VR1 or higher then they will probably face an armed uprising.

I've never really understood what the beef is with the VR levels themselves - I get that some don't like questing (although why you'd not expect questing in an online game based on the biggest questing RPG series is another question), I get that some have issue with immersion and offering other ways to level is always good - but levels are just levels... how does the game become better if you remove 14 levels?

Because it's not 14 levels! Is 14 extra extra long levels. It's like saying a marathon is just going for a run.

It's the fact that after you take out the games end bad guy, your only a third of the way through the level process. With the other 2 thirds being factions you did not choose. No other game does this, because it's utterly stupid.

They only serve as a barrier to the actual end game content, they spread the player base too thin. Level 50+ items/content would be usable by a far larger part of the player base than VR14 items/content.

Are people really still not getting why people disliked VR? Or are they just VR14's wanting to see other people having to do what they did?

Remove VR levels and all you get is something equivalent to original WoW level 1 to 40. That is, a couple of days and you ding max level and then you are slammed into a nerfed, boring, group only area (Craplorn) and waiting all day long for some dude to do a 4 men or trial.

They need to actually put in something, in place of the 14 levels. Else the game is even lacking more content than the unbearably little amount of content it already got.

Just recall this: in the others MMOs you can usually level 1 to max level without grinding, just by soloing and questing.
In the other MMOs you can level one alt per faction, you'll have enough playable content to get to max level. In ESO there's so little content you need to play all the 3 factions to get 1 character to max level. It actually discourages rolling new alts to see how the other kingdoms quest lines look like.

NewBlacksmurf

Guppet wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

I don't get what you are expecting removing VR levels to bring to the game at this point?

You still have a lot of XP to earn to get CP. You still, presumably, will need to get the best type of weapons whether they are called VR14 or '50++'. You will still have to quest through the VR1-10 areas to get skills, items, achieves, skyshards and so on.

Also if after the recent changes they remove 13 skill points and equivalent stat points from everyone who has reached VR14 and similar removals from anyone VR1 or higher then they will probably face an armed uprising.

I've never really understood what the beef is with the VR levels themselves - I get that some don't like questing (although why you'd not expect questing in an online game based on the biggest questing RPG series is another question), I get that some have issue with immersion and offering other ways to level is always good - but levels are just levels... how does the game become better if you remove 14 levels?

Because it's not 14 levels! Is 14 extra extra long levels. It's like saying a marathon is just going for a run.

It's the fact that after you take out the games end bad guy, your only a third of the way through the level process. With the other 2 thirds being factions you did not choose. No other game does this, because it's utterly stupid.

They only serve as a barrier to the actual end game content, they spread the player base too thin. Level 50+ items/content would be usable by a far larger part of the player base than VR14 items/content.

Are people really still not getting why people disliked VR? Or are they just VR14's wanting to see other people having to do what they did?

YEP but actually is like 100 pre VR levels cause that's about how much content is needed for VR14.

Tavore1138

Guppet wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

I don't get what you are expecting removing VR levels to bring to the game at this point?

You still have a lot of XP to earn to get CP. You still, presumably, will need to get the best type of weapons whether they are called VR14 or '50++'. You will still have to quest through the VR1-10 areas to get skills, items, achieves, skyshards and so on.

Also if after the recent changes they remove 13 skill points and equivalent stat points from everyone who has reached VR14 and similar removals from anyone VR1 or higher then they will probably face an armed uprising.

I've never really understood what the beef is with the VR levels themselves - I get that some don't like questing (although why you'd not expect questing in an online game based on the biggest questing RPG series is another question), I get that some have issue with immersion and offering other ways to level is always good - but levels are just levels... how does the game become better if you remove 14 levels?

Because it's not 14 levels! Is 14 extra extra long levels. It's like saying a marathon is just going for a run.

It's the fact that after you take out the games end bad guy, your only a third of the way through the level process. With the other 2 thirds being factions you did not choose. No other game does this, because it's utterly stupid.

They only serve as a barrier to the actual end game content, they spread the player base too thin. Level 50+ items/content would be usable by a far larger part of the player base than VR14 items/content.

Are people really still not getting why people disliked VR? Or are they just VR14's wanting to see other people having to do what they did?

If you think 14,000,000 is long how about the 1,440,000,000 needed for CP? The marathon got a lot longer!

I understand immersion problems, although I didn't have a problem with them, I agree other ways to get XP were and are still needed. But removing VR levels does not mean they will remove the need for you to quest through those areas to earn XP and get shards, skill points and so on.

CP are the new barrier to that content anyway, even for VR levelled people, that is not going to change.

I understand what the gripes are but simply removing the levels from the game isn't going to change the things you have problems with. That would require a complete reworking from the ground up of all systems of progress in the game, new 'non immersion breaking' content in the other areas (unless you advocate simply locking off those areas which IMO would not cause joy) - I doubt that is going to happen soon, if ever.

NewBlacksmurf

Vahrokh wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

I don't get what you are expecting removing VR levels to bring to the game at this point?

You still have a lot of XP to earn to get CP. You still, presumably, will need to get the best type of weapons whether they are called VR14 or '50++'. You will still have to quest through the VR1-10 areas to get skills, items, achieves, skyshards and so on.

Also if after the recent changes they remove 13 skill points and equivalent stat points from everyone who has reached VR14 and similar removals from anyone VR1 or higher then they will probably face an armed uprising.

I've never really understood what the beef is with the VR levels themselves - I get that some don't like questing (although why you'd not expect questing in an online game based on the biggest questing RPG series is another question), I get that some have issue with immersion and offering other ways to level is always good - but levels are just levels... how does the game become better if you remove 14 levels?

Because it's not 14 levels! Is 14 extra extra long levels. It's like saying a marathon is just going for a run.

It's the fact that after you take out the games end bad guy, your only a third of the way through the level process. With the other 2 thirds being factions you did not choose. No other game does this, because it's utterly stupid.

They only serve as a barrier to the actual end game content, they spread the player base too thin. Level 50+ items/content would be usable by a far larger part of the player base than VR14 items/content.

Are people really still not getting why people disliked VR? Or are they just VR14's wanting to see other people having to do what they did?

Remove VR levels and all you get is something equivalent to original WoW level 1 to 40. That is, a couple of days and you ding max level and then you are slammed into a nerfed, boring, group only area (Craplorn) and waiting all day long for some dude to do a 4 men or trial.

They need to actually put in something, in place of the 14 levels. Else the game is even lacking more content than the unbearably little amount of content it already got.

Just recall this: in the others MMOs you can usually level 1 to max level without grinding, just by soloing and questing.
In the other MMOs you can level one alt per faction, you'll have enough playable content to get to max level. In ESO there's so little content you need to play all the 3 factions to get 1 character to max level. It actually discourages rolling new alts to see how the other kingdoms quest lines look like.

Yep,
I've seen some good ideas too. One of my own was to create PvE Cyrodil with daily and weekly quests that support the at war concept. BUT the content shouldn't have levels, it should align with faction goals and the champion system.

Heck, they could even have jousting, sword fights, small arenas for PvP players who don't want a PvE Cyrodil

I'm trying to help everyone with this idea

Faulgor

I still think they should have given every character the opportunity to skip VR1-13 if you already have a VR14 on your account. This way we can at least play our alts at endgame until veteran ranks are removed, and it will hurt nobody.

Seraphyel

Vahrokh wrote: »

Just recall this: in the others MMOs you can usually level 1 to max level without grinding, just by soloing and questing.
In the other MMOs you can level one alt per faction, you'll have enough playable content to get to max level. In ESO there's so little content you need to play all the 3 factions to get 1 character to max level. It actually discourages rolling new alts to see how the other kingdoms quest lines look like.

That's one of the biggest issues of the game.

ESO offers 1 + 5 + 1 + 1 (starter islands + faction zones + Coldharbour + Craglorn) zones per faction. That's not much. You can't count the other faction zones cause they are exactly the same. Regarding those things, ESO offers just few content at all. The way from 1-50 is good, but after that it's just painful.

I don't know why but Zenimax hasn't thought about "Endgame" much and that's the biggest issue of ESO. VR seems to be made in a hush-hush operation without even thinking about it and that's exactly how it feels when playing it.

Gidorick

I still think they should do a regular level cap in crease... every other month raise the level cap by 1. DING... Make each additional level require more to achieve (as it already does), convert the VR levels straight to levels.... so people would be level 64 at max. In 10 years the level cap will be 124.

OH and keep the champion point system as is... but add more traits in the champion system over time so that the CP cap will raise with it. This way players over level 50 will receive champion points as they grind to the next level and then they also level. Each level earned should be enough to earn a player multiple champion points.

Sounds simple and reasonable to me in all of my ignorance.

Seraphyel

Gidorick wrote: »

I still think they should do a regular level cap in crease... every other month raise the level cap by 1. DING... Make each additional level require more to achieve (as it already does), convert the VR levels straight to levels.... so people would be level 64 at max. In 10 years the level cap will be 124.

Sounds simple and reasonable to me in all of my ignorance.

It won't fix the issue with leveling through the other factions without any sense.

I don't think the "progression" is the only issue, it's the whole route that gets painful pretty quickly because you play three times from 1-50.

NewBlacksmurf

Gidorick wrote: »

I still think they should do a regular level cap in crease... every other month raise the level cap by 1. DING... Make each additional level require more to achieve (as it already does), convert the VR levels straight to levels.... so people would be level 64 at max. In 10 years the level cap will be 124.

Sounds simple and reasonable to me in all of my ignorance.

This is the problem we are complaining about. It's why VR is here and the issue.

The level cap should always be 50 to align with the main quest and not to screw up what exists. The champion system affords ZOS the ability to raise the max champion points and their effectiveness. The silver and gold quests should be made optional. Your idea makes the silver and gold quests required which is part of the problem.

That's just me tho....been saying this since 2013 closed BETA

NewBlacksmurf

Seraphyel wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I still think they should do a regular level cap in crease... every other month raise the level cap by 1. DING... Make each additional level require more to achieve (as it already does), convert the VR levels straight to levels.... so people would be level 64 at max. In 10 years the level cap will be 124.

Sounds simple and reasonable to me in all of my ignorance.

It won't fix the issue with leveling through the other factions without any sense.

I don't think the "progression" is the only issue, it's the whole route that gets painful pretty quickly because you play three times from 1-50.

Agree.

Gidorick

Seraphyel wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I still think they should do a regular level cap in crease... every other month raise the level cap by 1. DING... Make each additional level require more to achieve (as it already does), convert the VR levels straight to levels.... so people would be level 64 at max. In 10 years the level cap will be 124.

Sounds simple and reasonable to me in all of my ignorance.

It won't fix the issue with leveling through the other factions without any sense.

I don't think the "progression" is the only issue, it's the whole route that gets painful pretty quickly because you play three times from 1-50.

eh... that's more a content issue than a leveling issue I think.

THAT'S why we need my Player Created Content suggestion implemented!

I try not to miss an opportunity to shamelessly self advertise

Gidorick

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I still think they should do a regular level cap in crease... every other month raise the level cap by 1. DING... Make each additional level require more to achieve (as it already does), convert the VR levels straight to levels.... so people would be level 64 at max. In 10 years the level cap will be 124.

Sounds simple and reasonable to me in all of my ignorance.

This is the problem we are complaining about. It's why VR is here and the issue.

The level cap should always be 50 to align with the main quest and not to screw up what exists. The champion system affords ZOS the ability to raise the max champion points and their effectiveness. The silver and gold quests should be made optional. Your idea makes the silver and gold quests required which is part of the problem.

That's just me tho....been saying this since 2013 closed BETA

how would adding extra levels screw up the 1-50 progression?

NewBlacksmurf

Gidorick wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I still think they should do a regular level cap in crease... every other month raise the level cap by 1. DING... Make each additional level require more to achieve (as it already does), convert the VR levels straight to levels.... so people would be level 64 at max. In 10 years the level cap will be 124.

Sounds simple and reasonable to me in all of my ignorance.

This is the problem we are complaining about. It's why VR is here and the issue.

The level cap should always be 50 to align with the main quest and not to screw up what exists. The champion system affords ZOS the ability to raise the max champion points and their effectiveness. The silver and gold quests should be made optional. Your idea makes the silver and gold quests required which is part of the problem.

That's just me tho....been saying this since 2013 closed BETA

how would adding extra levels screw up the 1-50 progression?

Because that would be changing VR levels to to character levels. So what you end up with is a 64 is approx VR1+
even at level 100 you still wouldn't be VR14 equivalent. This is why VR levels need to be removed.

Character levels is 1
VR levels are approx 10-15 character levels
4-8 Champion points are 1 VR level (edit)

This math is trying to consider all changes past and present but is not the exact math today

My point is that after ZOS went away from character levels when introducing VR and champion levels it becomes problematic to adjust character levels after 50. Imagine taking 30-60 days away on your level 40 and coming back to see that you now need 40-50 more levels before earning champion points. This drives people away just like in BETA when VR levels cam out and then kept getting increased. Even at launch the increased the max VR levels and it's a terrible experience

Seraphyel

Gidorick wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I still think they should do a regular level cap in crease... every other month raise the level cap by 1. DING... Make each additional level require more to achieve (as it already does), convert the VR levels straight to levels.... so people would be level 64 at max. In 10 years the level cap will be 124.

Sounds simple and reasonable to me in all of my ignorance.

It won't fix the issue with leveling through the other factions without any sense.

I don't think the "progression" is the only issue, it's the whole route that gets painful pretty quickly because you play three times from 1-50.

eh... that's more a content issue than a leveling issue I think.

THAT'S why we need my Player Created Content suggestion implemented!

I try not to miss an opportunity to shamelessly self advertise

Yeah, it is, but the combination of both just ends in the current "experience"... VR + VR zones = motivation overkill.

Zenimax just should implement at least 2 new zones for VR leveling and then it would be okay. Something like...

1-50: Your own faction + Coldharbour

VR1-5: Craglorn

VR5-10: Wrothgar

VR10+: Imperial City

With this way it would feel like a "usual" zone from 1-50. The other factions could still be there for Cadwells sake if anybody really wants to play through them they can do it but there must be an alternative route.

NewBlacksmurf

Gidorick wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I still think they should do a regular level cap in crease... every other month raise the level cap by 1. DING... Make each additional level require more to achieve (as it already does), convert the VR levels straight to levels.... so people would be level 64 at max. In 10 years the level cap will be 124.

Sounds simple and reasonable to me in all of my ignorance.

It won't fix the issue with leveling through the other factions without any sense.

I don't think the "progression" is the only issue, it's the whole route that gets painful pretty quickly because you play three times from 1-50.

eh... that's more a content issue than a leveling issue I think.

THAT'S why we need my Player Created Content suggestion implemented!

I try not to miss an opportunity to shamelessly self advertise

This isn't a single player game or hosted multiplayer. You can't allow people to add stuff to someone else's server.

Soulshine

Vahrokh wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

I don't get what you are expecting removing VR levels to bring to the game at this point?

You still have a lot of XP to earn to get CP. You still, presumably, will need to get the best type of weapons whether they are called VR14 or '50++'. You will still have to quest through the VR1-10 areas to get skills, items, achieves, skyshards and so on.

Also if after the recent changes they remove 13 skill points and equivalent stat points from everyone who has reached VR14 and similar removals from anyone VR1 or higher then they will probably face an armed uprising.

I've never really understood what the beef is with the VR levels themselves - I get that some don't like questing (although why you'd not expect questing in an online game based on the biggest questing RPG series is another question), I get that some have issue with immersion and offering other ways to level is always good - but levels are just levels... how does the game become better if you remove 14 levels?

Because it's not 14 levels! Is 14 extra extra long levels. It's like saying a marathon is just going for a run.

It's the fact that after you take out the games end bad guy, your only a third of the way through the level process. With the other 2 thirds being factions you did not choose. No other game does this, because it's utterly stupid.

They only serve as a barrier to the actual end game content, they spread the player base too thin. Level 50+ items/content would be usable by a far larger part of the player base than VR14 items/content.

Are people really still not getting why people disliked VR? Or are they just VR14's wanting to see other people having to do what they did?

Remove VR levels and all you get is something equivalent to original WoW level 1 to 40. That is, a couple of days and you ding max level and then you are slammed into a nerfed, boring, group only area (Craplorn) and waiting all day long for some dude to do a 4 men or trial.

They need to actually put in something, in place of the 14 levels. Else the game is even lacking more content than the unbearably little amount of content it already got.

Just recall this: in the others MMOs you can usually level 1 to max level without grinding, just by soloing and questing.
In the other MMOs you can level one alt per faction, you'll have enough playable content to get to max level. In ESO there's so little content you need to play all the 3 factions to get 1 character to max level. It actually discourages rolling new alts to see how the other kingdoms quest lines look like.

Bingo.

Been saying this for a very long time. PvE for the levels 1-50 is actually pretty good. But then you get.....? Rehash. Two more times. Then Craglorn. Yay. The complete lack of story to account for and give them meaning this many levels without dragging the massively slow XP rate down even futher has been the issue all along.

Despite however many threads that people have made arguing this, the lack of content was and STILL IS the problem for VR. What we got instead were more core system overhauls and changes, rather than playable zones and content with appropriately balanced XP gains. The last zone update was September of 2014 with upper Craglorn.

So here we are now, in the supposed Phase 3 of the Champion System overhaul.

The now mystical Phase 4 of the Champion System was supposed to include the removal of VR levels and the introduction of Season Gear. There has not been a peep in months about when it will arrive.

IF it does, put that in context of the above and then things get very complicated. Consider also that as people earn more and more CPs meantime, the zone content we DO have will need additional rebalancing to account for this, since the higher up the ladder of CPs you go, the easier the content is.

Testing on PTS with 3600 CPs made Craglorn content so trivial it could be soloed very, very easily -- something which devs rightly noted in the patch notes since the zone was not balanced for 3600 CP players. (The issue this creates with PvP?? Not EVEN going to address that as they are massively self-evident.)

Now granted, it will be a very long time before we see players in the game with that many CPs. But what is clear is that as time wears on, there will need to be periodic updates to balance PvE content to account for changes at the top end of players or else all the content will be trivial.

Except then you will have other players at the top end trying to play the same content that do NOT have the same number of CPs.... see where this is going? How do you separate them? Season Gear only? We don't have it. New Zones only? We don't have them yet.

Remove the VR ranks now and it is going to be a big mess, and that is why they haven't done it. The supports needed to make the Champion System viable WITHOUT Veteran Ranks are simply still missing from the game.

When we will get them if ever is anyone's guess since ZoS refuses to answer.

NewBlacksmurf

Seraphyel wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I still think they should do a regular level cap in crease... every other month raise the level cap by 1. DING... Make each additional level require more to achieve (as it already does), convert the VR levels straight to levels.... so people would be level 64 at max. In 10 years the level cap will be 124.

Sounds simple and reasonable to me in all of my ignorance.

It won't fix the issue with leveling through the other factions without any sense.

I don't think the "progression" is the only issue, it's the whole route that gets painful pretty quickly because you play three times from 1-50.

eh... that's more a content issue than a leveling issue I think.

THAT'S why we need my Player Created Content suggestion implemented!

I try not to miss an opportunity to shamelessly self advertise

Yeah, it is, but the combination of both just ends in the current "experience"... VR + VR zones = motivation overkill.

Zenimax just should implement at least 2 new zones for VR leveling and then it would be okay. Something like...

1-50: Your own faction + Coldharbour

VR1-5: Craglorn

VR5-10: Wrothgar

VR10+: Imperial City

With this way it would feel like a "usual" zone from 1-50. The other factions could still be there for Cadwells sake if anybody really wants to play through them they can do it but there must be an alternative route.

Uhm no..you're completely missing the point.

Any content that creates separation, grinding or redundancy for no logical support of another system needs to be removed.
Silver and gold quests, VR levels all need to be removed.
Because some people want to play other factions on the same character, the silver and gold content can stay as optional questing only. No shares and no skill gains tho.

The post 50 experience is to bring the at war concept together and to bring all who saved the world together to journey

Those journeys can be alone, grouped or in raids but should not be limited by a VR level.

Considering the DLC expansions announced is going to adjust to the character level there is no gap to fill.

They just need to remove VR levels period.
Some ppl want to explore, run VR dungeons that scale to level so just let ppl play together since we have to get on the server to play at all

global_gbb16_ESO

I guess Zenimax see the problem with VR14 - its probably equivalent to around 700-800 CP points thus rendering the existing CP system somewhat irrelevant.

The question is, do they take away the VR levels but the characters retain the same level of power which means we have a legacy character configuration that anyone coming into the game will be years away from achieving or do they truly strip away the VR1 to VR14 and reset character power back to level 50? There will be a backlash of epic proportions and I don't think the "70CP give away" will cut any ice with a very angry player base.

The sweetener in all of this however is that any player who has gained x (70+ for VR14 players) CP - they can assign this to any new character they create thus effectively creating a queue jumper for any new player builds. 70+ per player build - that's actually quite awesome.

Seraphyel

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

They just need to remove VR levels period.

As I said, that won't change anything.

Removing VR level without giving us new stuff to do only makes the whole situation even worse.

My "option" was just a way to show how awful VR levels can be turned into less awful VR levels.

There are two components here that result in the final issue:

VR Content (zones, quests etc.) and VR progression (slowly, dull, bland, non-rewarding etc.)

Right now both components are quite bad. When you take away the VR progression, the whole VR Content gets even worse because you have - besides the Champion System - no real motivation to do it.

The biggest issue here is the missing content. If there would be more VR content with a player choice where to go, it would be better than it is now. It wouldn't be good or great, but better.

NewBlacksmurf

Seraphyel wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

They just need to remove VR levels period.

As I said, that won't change anything.

Removing VR level without giving us new stuff to do only makes the whole situation even worse.

My "option" was just a way to show how awful VR levels can be turned into less awful VR levels.

There are two components here that result in the final issue:

VR Content (zones, quests etc.) and VR progression (slowly, dull, bland, non-rewarding etc.)

Right now both components are quite bad. When you take away the VR progression, the whole VR Content gets even worse because you have - besides the Champion System - no real motivation to do it.

The biggest issue here is the missing content. If there would be more VR content with a player choice where to go, it would be better than it is now. It wouldn't be good or great, but better.

If tomorrow they just removed the character VR levels (ours not npc's) in this phase it hurts nothing and makes things better. No one needs more stuff to do if we already have to play the game three times per character just to use endgame gear and items.

My post is for this phase and I his does work fine based on what ZOS has said they are changing.
The need for content will always be there but the game isn't that old. AnD more content is coming but they just released content last week.

The problem is that the NPC's were adjust back in closed BETA to be too easy along the lines when they added VR levels.

If they remove the VR levels now and then adjust other things in later phases as schedule this one adjust creates a HUGE viability to play post 50 ANd actually creates value to the crown store explorers item

All the stuff you're mentioning takes months and some is not even on their radar.

I'm coming with a logic approach in line with what they've already said they are going to do but just chose not to

Wolfenbelle

First, I wish people would stop thinking that, because they have a particular opinion, everyone else thinks the same way. I'm someone who doesn't want to see vr1 to vr14 removed.

I agree with others who have recommended removing the title "veteran rank" and renaming those levels to 51 to 64 along with providing other ways to reach max level than having to slog through Cadwell's s/g. That's where the flaw is in the system. It's not in the 13 levels above 50/vr1 that's the problem. It's the awful way we are forced to slog through the levels to reach the current max level of vr14 (64).

Soulshine

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

They just need to remove VR levels period.

As I said, that won't change anything.

Removing VR level without giving us new stuff to do only makes the whole situation even worse.

My "option" was just a way to show how awful VR levels can be turned into less awful VR levels.

There are two components here that result in the final issue:

VR Content (zones, quests etc.) and VR progression (slowly, dull, bland, non-rewarding etc.)

Right now both components are quite bad. When you take away the VR progression, the whole VR Content gets even worse because you have - besides the Champion System - no real motivation to do it.

The biggest issue here is the missing content. If there would be more VR content with a player choice where to go, it would be better than it is now. It wouldn't be good or great, but better.

If tomorrow they just removed the character VR levels (ours not npc's) in this phase

My post is for this phase and I his does work fine.
The need for content will always be there but the game isn't that old.

The problem is that the NPC's were adjust back in closed BETA to be too easy along the lines when they added VR levels.

If they remove the VR levels now and then adjust other things in later phases as schedule this one adjust creates a HUGE viability to play post 50 ANd actually creates value to the crown store explorers item

All the stuff you're mentioning takes months and some is not even on their radar.

I'm coming with a logic approach in line with what they've already said they are going to do but just chose not to

The Champion System was created to -- supposedly -- replace VR.

You seem to think it is a simple issue of just taking the numbers away and be done with it. It isn't. Balancing the game for CS is far, far more complex than balancing for VR would ever have been, and even Sage himself discussed this at length in the Champion System presentation.

You cannot remove VR right now without adding the systems needed to support progression though the Champion System as he discussed. These are still missing from the game.

NewBlacksmurf

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

First, I wish people would stop thinking that, because they have a particular opinion, everyone else thinks the same way. I'm someone who doesn't want to see vr1 to vr14 removed.

I agree with others who have recommended removing the title "veteran rank" and renaming those levels to 51 to 64 along with providing other ways to reach max level than having to slog through Cadwell's s/g. That's where the flaw is in the system. It's not in the 13 levels above 50/vr1 that's the problem. It's the awful way we are forced to slog through the levels to reach the current max level of vr14 (64).

I respect your opinion but because VR levels don't equal character levels then your suggestion puts us where we are now whic then is no reason to change anything. It is the 14 levels that are a problem, it's also the silver and gold quests and the VR exp rate.
Everyone that commented so far has a very reasonable problem with some part of the VR system.
It's time for it to go

Just removing it doesn't fix the problems but in this phase it offers progression towards the points raised.

Seraphyel

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If they remove the VR levels now and then adjust other things in later phases as schedule this one adjust creates a HUGE viability to play post 50 ANd actually creates value to the crown store explorers item

All the stuff you're mentioning takes months and some is not even on their radar.

I'm coming with a logic approach in line with what they've already said they are going to do but just chose not to

No, this wouldn't create a huge viability, it would make the playtime of ESO shorter. You could jump from Coldharbour to Craglorn and then? Finished with ESO within a few weeks.

Missing content is the biggest issue ESO has to battle right now. To remove the VR now without giving players content besides Craglorn would make the whole situation even worse than it is now.

The stuff I mentioned could be done with a wink. Wrothgar seems to be in work right now as well as IC. To make my option work they just need to tweak some numbers. And as I said, it's not the solution, it's a slight improvement for the current issue.

In the end removing VR is the only way to make endgame good but you can't remove VR without giving players new stuff to do. We haven't had new content for half a year now.

Soulshine wrote: »

You cannot remove VR right now without adding the systems needed to support progression though the Champion System as he discussed. These are still missing from the game.

That is my point.

The biggest issue seems to be the progression from VR1-14 but indeed it's the missing content behind the progression. If there would be more content, more valuable things to do and maybe a better adjustement of the progression (as I said, 1 zone = 5 VR levels instead of 1 zone = 1 VR level) the VR thing wouldn't be as bad as it is now.

NewBlacksmurf

Seraphyel wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If they remove the VR levels now and then adjust other things in later phases as schedule this one adjust creates a HUGE viability to play post 50 ANd actually creates value to the crown store explorers item

All the stuff you're mentioning takes months and some is not even on their radar.

I'm coming with a logic approach in line with what they've already said they are going to do but just chose not to

No, this wouldn't create a huge viability, it would make the playtime of ESO shorter. You could jump from Coldharbour to Craglorn and then? Finished with ESO within a few weeks.

Missing content is the biggest issue ESO has to battle right now. To remove the VR now without giving players content besides Craglorn would make the whole situation even worse than it is now.

The stuff I mentioned could be done with a wink. Wrothgar seems to be in work right now as well as IC. To make my option work they just need to tweak some numbers. And as I said, it's not the solution, it's a slight improvement for the current issue.

In the end removing VR is the only way to make endgame good but you can't remove VR without giving players new stuff to do. We haven't had new content for half a year now.

Soulshine wrote: »

You cannot remove VR right now without adding the systems needed to support progression though the Champion System as he discussed. These are still missing from the game.

That is my point.

The biggest issue seems to be the progression from VR1-14 but indeed it's the missing content behind the progression. If there would be more content, more valuable things to do and maybe a better adjustement of the progression (as I said, 1 zone = 5 VR levels instead of 1 zone = 1 VR level) the VR thing wouldn't be as bad as it is now.

You completely now gather my suggestion. But you are not understanding that the NPC VR levels would remain.

The length of play can easily be adjusted by changing NPC difficulty so I'll support your point there.
It's a online game so while there is a need for content, there is a need for purposeful content that is replay able hundreds of times where new and different rewards are why people play. If I could gain cp's and/or VR levels by helping and playing with level 20-50 ppl that would be great to go back and do any missed or skipped quests but gain my level exp for going back instead of going to silver n gold quests zones.

Let's say that you enjoy doing solo quests. If they were a reason to do things again to help others but you gain a reward it then lessens the overall need for one and done content.

It's really a problem with content design. If you want to do things once and only once all games that you play, you will always feel the game needs more content.

If ZOS adjusts content to offer purpose, then that works.

Imagine if the whole game somehow was able to scale to all but allow people to group and solo. Like earlier Elder Scrolls games but adding server mmorpg

- ie: your soloing a NPC at level 45 and a vr11 comes by, the vr11 dmg scales to your level and the NPC is scaled to the first character level that attacks it.
- Then that in reverse.
- Imagine level 20's being able to play with VR13 scaled both ways but with only limitations of skills, enchants, etc.
- the loot would be character level specific to each player

That offsets content and then allows them to remove VR levels, silver n gold quests so that ppl are playing and not separated.


I do realize this is a diff idea but only commenting on your content needs and not the original posted topic

ZOS has a lot of work to do in our eyes.

BBSooner

I hope nobody is under the impression that when they remove VR level 50 will be the cap. That would require additional reworking of all the items and VR zones. Very likely the VR is just going to be made regular levels, and level cap will be 63 ... or even just rounded up to 65.

Guppet

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

I don't get what you are expecting removing VR levels to bring to the game at this point?

You still have a lot of XP to earn to get CP. You still, presumably, will need to get the best type of weapons whether they are called VR14 or '50++'. You will still have to quest through the VR1-10 areas to get skills, items, achieves, skyshards and so on.

Also if after the recent changes they remove 13 skill points and equivalent stat points from everyone who has reached VR14 and similar removals from anyone VR1 or higher then they will probably face an armed uprising.

I've never really understood what the beef is with the VR levels themselves - I get that some don't like questing (although why you'd not expect questing in an online game based on the biggest questing RPG series is another question), I get that some have issue with immersion and offering other ways to level is always good - but levels are just levels... how does the game become better if you remove 14 levels?

Because it's not 14 levels! Is 14 extra extra long levels. It's like saying a marathon is just going for a run.

It's the fact that after you take out the games end bad guy, your only a third of the way through the level process. With the other 2 thirds being factions you did not choose. No other game does this, because it's utterly stupid.

They only serve as a barrier to the actual end game content, they spread the player base too thin. Level 50+ items/content would be usable by a far larger part of the player base than VR14 items/content.

Are people really still not getting why people disliked VR? Or are they just VR14's wanting to see other people having to do what they did?

If you think 14,000,000 is long how about the 1,440,000,000 needed for CP? The marathon got a lot longer!

I understand immersion problems, although I didn't have a problem with them, I agree other ways to get XP were and are still needed. But removing VR levels does not mean they will remove the need for you to quest through those areas to earn XP and get shards, skill points and so on.

CP are the new barrier to that content anyway, even for VR levelled people, that is not going to change.

I understand what the gripes are but simply removing the levels from the game isn't going to change the things you have problems with. That would require a complete reworking from the ground up of all systems of progress in the game, new 'non immersion breaking' content in the other areas (unless you advocate simply locking off those areas which IMO would not cause joy) - I doubt that is going to happen soon, if ever.

No where has it been said CP will gate content. Quite the contrary, they said that future dlc will be accessible at any level. So if a level 20 can do the content, there can't be any CP requirement.

All that VR does is stop players playing current end game content.