From a Lore Standpoint, how tall are Wood Elves (Bosmer)

Vaerth

UrQuan wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

Feannag wrote: »

cyqa wrote: »

I've never really noticed height with my female bosmer. After reading this thread, though, I'm going to run around and stand next to other player characters and compare.

So if a little lady bosmer runs up to you with a giant black cat, please don't step on me! I'm doing it for science!

If you stand next to a maxed out Altmer - you do feel a bit small lol.

What if a maxed out Bosmer stands next to a maxed out Breton or Dunmer?

I'm tempted to test this out and post screenshots.

Do it!

Feannag

UrQuan wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

Feannag wrote: »

cyqa wrote: »

I've never really noticed height with my female bosmer. After reading this thread, though, I'm going to run around and stand next to other player characters and compare.

So if a little lady bosmer runs up to you with a giant black cat, please don't step on me! I'm doing it for science!

If you stand next to a maxed out Altmer - you do feel a bit small lol.

What if a maxed out Bosmer stands next to a maxed out Breton or Dunmer?

I'm tempted to test this out and post screenshots.

Would love to see that...male and female of all the races.

Rosveen

This is what happens when you create a max height Altmer.
https://i.imgur.com/7kAtDkJ.png

Btw, where did the image button go?

Feannag

Rosveen wrote: »

This is what happens when you create a max height Altmer.
https://i.imgur.com/7kAtDkJ.png

Btw, where did the image button go?

Its mini-me!

Rosveen

It's like walking among children. https://i.imgur.com/EzMfGmY.jpg

Man, why do I even still have these screenshots from the beta?

UrQuan

Vaerth wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

Feannag wrote: »

cyqa wrote: »

I've never really noticed height with my female bosmer. After reading this thread, though, I'm going to run around and stand next to other player characters and compare.

So if a little lady bosmer runs up to you with a giant black cat, please don't step on me! I'm doing it for science!

If you stand next to a maxed out Altmer - you do feel a bit small lol.

What if a maxed out Bosmer stands next to a maxed out Breton or Dunmer?

I'm tempted to test this out and post screenshots.

Do it!

Feannag wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

Feannag wrote: »

cyqa wrote: »

I've never really noticed height with my female bosmer. After reading this thread, though, I'm going to run around and stand next to other player characters and compare.

So if a little lady bosmer runs up to you with a giant black cat, please don't step on me! I'm doing it for science!

If you stand next to a maxed out Altmer - you do feel a bit small lol.

What if a maxed out Bosmer stands next to a maxed out Breton or Dunmer?

I'm tempted to test this out and post screenshots.

Would love to see that...male and female of all the races.

OK, I'll do something... I don't think I'll be able to do it with all races (character slot and deletion limitations being what they are - I'll have to go to the EU server to do it at all), but I'll do the best I can. I probably won't get a chance to do anything until tomorrow evening though, as I'm not going to be at home after work tonight.

cyqa

Having stood next to the entire population of Rawl'kha, I can conclusively provide the following information:

I'm very short.

I actually can't remember where I put my height on the slider, and my character is female so this doesn't really help. The male bosmer I stood next to we

Feannag wrote: »

cyqa wrote: »

I've never really noticed height with my female bosmer. After reading this thread, though, I'm going to run around and stand next to other player characters and compare.

So if a little lady bosmer runs up to you with a giant black cat, please don't step on me! I'm doing it for science!

If you stand next to a maxed out Altmer - you do feel a bit small lol.

Having stood next to the entire population of Rawl'kha, I can conclusively provide the following information:

I'm very short.

I actually can't remember where I put my height on the slider, and my character is female so this doesn't really help. The male bosmer I stood next to were also very short, but I don't know where they had their sliders either. Next to the altmers, I felt like a child.

To the OP: I feel like the longterm satisfaction of your character is important, so if you're a bit wigged out by the short stature, I understand why you may want to role a dunmer. I'm the type that needs to be optimally satisfied with the pixels I have to stare at on screen.

phreatophile

My minimum height Bosmer looks so small next to Lyris Titanborn it cracks me up. Her shoulders are somewhere around Lyris's waist. Daughter of Giants...I believe it!

WhimsyDragon

Kinda depends on your basis of comparison. I made my female bosmer as tall as possible and she fits in with the humans of DC, though even at the tallest height, she's smallish around high elves or nords. Definitely wouldn't categorize bosmer as hobbits though! Not at all!

UrQuan

phreatophile wrote: »

My minimum height Bosmer looks so small next to Lyris Titanborn it cracks me up. Her shoulders are somewhere around Lyris's waist. Daughter of Giants...I believe it!

One of my alts is a maximum height female Nord. Yeah, Lyris definitely has some giant blood in her, because she's significantly taller than my max height Nord.

Archer79

The Bosmer are short for game play purposes. Lore-wise they are not categorized into a definite height/size, in fact only the Altmer,Nords, and Orcs are said to be taller and larger than the other races.
If you have read the book A dance in Fire, which seems to be the main source for Bosmer culture that influenced ZOS, you will notice the protagonist Decumus Scotti, who is an Imperial, meets a lot of tall and muscular Bosmer throughout his journey to Valenwood. For example:

"Hoy!" came a cry from the wood. A small party of Bosmer emerged from the thicket, clad in leather mail and bearing arms. "Friend or foe?"
"Neither," growled the convoy head.
"You must be the Cyrodiils," laughed the leader of the group, a tall skeleton-thin youth with a sharp vulpine face. "We heard you were en route. Evidently, so did our enemies."

"We have an audience with the Silvenar," said Jurus, patiently. This is Lord Decumus Scotti, the Imperial representative."
One of the guards disappeared down the winding corridor, and returned moments later with a tall, proud Bosmer clad in a loose robe of patchwork leather. He was the Minister of Trade: "The Silvenar wishes to speak with Lord Decumus Scotti alone."

After a short conversation, an even shorter ride to Falinesti's roots by way of the platforms, and a jog to the river bank, Scotti was negotiating transport with a huge fair-haired Bosmer with a face like a pickled carp. He called himself Captain Balfix, but even Scotti with his sheltered life could recognize him for what he was. A retired pirate for hire, a smuggler for certain, and probably much worse. His ship, which had clearly been stolen in the distant past, was a bent old Imperial sloop.

The rest of the story can be found in the imperial-library, if you are interested in Bosmer lore your going to love it:

imperial-library.info/content/dance-fire

So you see the Bosmer can be of any height, and size its just game play decisions that made them short. Personally I have no issues with their height, but not to the standards that ZOS set them up to, because they are really short its actually annoying. Skyrim has the best representation of the Bosmer so far, heck even in Morrowind they were not this short. Oblivion on the other hand treated them like how ESO treats them now, short and annoying, in oppose to scary hunter/assassin/..cannibal?.

Vaerth

Archer79 wrote: »

The Bosmer are short for game play purposes. Lore-wise they are not categorized into a definite height/size, in fact only the Altmer,Nords, and Orcs are said to be taller and larger than the other races.
If you have read the book A dance in Fire, which seems to be the main source for Bosmer culture that influenced ZOS, you will notice the protagonist Decumus Scotti, who is an Imperial, meets a lot of tall and muscular Bosmer throughout his journey to Valenwood. For example:

"Hoy!" came a cry from the wood. A small party of Bosmer emerged from the thicket, clad in leather mail and bearing arms. "Friend or foe?"
"Neither," growled the convoy head.
"You must be the Cyrodiils," laughed the leader of the group, a tall skeleton-thin youth with a sharp vulpine face. "We heard you were en route. Evidently, so did our enemies."

"We have an audience with the Silvenar," said Jurus, patiently. This is Lord Decumus Scotti, the Imperial representative."
One of the guards disappeared down the winding corridor, and returned moments later with a tall, proud Bosmer clad in a loose robe of patchwork leather. He was the Minister of Trade: "The Silvenar wishes to speak with Lord Decumus Scotti alone."

After a short conversation, an even shorter ride to Falinesti's roots by way of the platforms, and a jog to the river bank, Scotti was negotiating transport with a huge fair-haired Bosmer with a face like a pickled carp. He called himself Captain Balfix, but even Scotti with his sheltered life could recognize him for what he was. A retired pirate for hire, a smuggler for certain, and probably much worse. His ship, which had clearly been stolen in the distant past, was a bent old Imperial sloop.

The rest of the story can be found in the imperial-library, if you are interested in Bosmer lore your going to love it:

imperial-library.info/content/dance-fire

So you see the Bosmer can be of any height, and size its just game play decisions that made them short. Personally I have no issues with their height, but not to the standards that ZOS set them up to, because they are really short its actually annoying. Skyrim has the best representation of the Bosmer so far, heck even in Morrowind they were not this short. Oblivion on the other hand treated them like how ESO treats them now, short and annoying, in oppose to scary hunter/assassin/..cannibal?.

Awesome read!

Takhistis

I still feel like hobbit when questing in Auridon...
Yesterday I stood next to someone I was questing with, she was a high elf female
She was just medium length, same as me, I think I got about just up to her breasts...
So weird...

Mountain_Dewed

15 hands high

frould

I'm also reroll new nb for this reason. Bosmers are around shoulder of my new Imperial.

Vaerth

frould wrote: »

I'm also reroll new nb for this reason. Bosmers are around shoulder of my new Imperial.

If they remove racial passives that would be great, I should not have to reroll to be able to play the game optimal because the devs make big changes. Either provide free race changes or remove passive racials I say.

Archer79

Takhistis wrote: »

I still feel like hobbit when questing in Auridon...
Yesterday I stood next to someone I was questing with, she was a high elf female
She was just medium length, same as me, I think I got about just up to her breasts...
So weird...

Well yeah you shouldn't compare your Bosmer to an Altmer, nor to a Nord, or Orc, because these are the huge/tall races in all of Tamriel. another example for height change in this game is the Bretons, in all TES games the Bretons were the shortest of all the human races (Nord,Imperial,Redguard,Breton), and yet now they are as tall as Orcs?!!
You can see that in that height chart that was posted earlier in this thread, now they are the second tallest after the Nords, and taller than Imperials, who are taller than Redguards.
Another problem for me personally with my Bosmer height is when I have him wear a heavy helm from other racial motifs. His head becomes bigger than his body, its kinda funny, but sad as well, cuz now I cant enjoy wearing my monster helm without looking silly, every time i wear it i have to use the hide option, because its so ridiculous when it supposed to look cool.
The way I see it is that other than the three I mentioned earlier (Altmer,Nords,and Orcs), all races are about the same height, and their heights change with every game.

Vaerth

Archer79 wrote: »

Takhistis wrote: »

I still feel like hobbit when questing in Auridon...
Yesterday I stood next to someone I was questing with, she was a high elf female
She was just medium length, same as me, I think I got about just up to her breasts...
So weird...

Well yeah you shouldn't compare your Bosmer to an Altmer, nor to a Nord, or Orc, because these are the huge/tall races in all of Tamriel. another example for height change in this game is the Bretons, in all TES games the Bretons were the shortest of all the human races (Nord,Imperial,Redguard,Breton), and yet now they are as tall as Orcs?!!
You can see that in that height chart that was posted earlier in this thread, now they are the second tallest after the Nords, and taller than Imperials, who are taller than Redguards.
Another problem for me personally with my Bosmer height is when I have him wear a heavy helm from other racial motifs. His head becomes bigger than his body, its kinda funny, but sad as well, cuz now I cant enjoy wearing my monster helm without looking silly, every time i wear it i have to use the hide option, because its so ridiculous when it supposed to look cool.
The way I see it is that other than the three I mentioned earlier (Altmer,Nords,and Orcs), all races are about the same height, and their heights change with every game.

Can you confirm that a male Bosmer is the same heights as a Male Dunmer with sliders all full height?

AngryNord

Panda244 wrote: »

@Vaerth straight from the reddit, this is reliable as it gets until someone at Bethesda says otherwise.

• Altmer (both genders) - 6'8"
• Argonian Male - 5'10"
• Argonian Female- 5'9"
• Bosmer Male - 5'7''
• Bosmer Female - 5'8"
• Breton Male - 5'9"
• Breton Female - 5'4''
• Dunmer (both genders) - 5'9"
• Imperial (both genders)- 6'0"
• Khajiit Male - 5'9"
• Khajiit Female - 5'4''
• Nord (both genders)- 6'0''
• Orc (both genders) - 6'1"1/2
• Redguard Male - 5'9"1/2
• Redguard Female - 5'9"

So to answer your question, Bosmer aren't midgets, and they aren't tall. They're like a below average human male or average human female. I think... Not entirely sure.

Uhm, I'm pretty certain that Redguards lore-wise are supposed to be taller than average - not as tall as Altmer, but on par With Nords/Orcs. Nords definately should be taller than Imps.

AngryNord

Vaerth wrote: »

frould wrote: »

I'm also reroll new nb for this reason. Bosmers are around shoulder of my new Imperial.

If they remove racial passives that would be great, I should not have to reroll to be able to play the game optimal because the devs make big changes. Either provide free race changes or remove passive racials I say.

Racial passives belong in lore. Sorry.

Vaerth

AngryNord wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

@Vaerth straight from the reddit, this is reliable as it gets until someone at Bethesda says otherwise.

• Altmer (both genders) - 6'8"
• Argonian Male - 5'10"
• Argonian Female- 5'9"
• Bosmer Male - 5'7''
• Bosmer Female - 5'8"
• Breton Male - 5'9"
• Breton Female - 5'4''
• Dunmer (both genders) - 5'9"
• Imperial (both genders)- 6'0"
• Khajiit Male - 5'9"
• Khajiit Female - 5'4''
• Nord (both genders)- 6'0''
• Orc (both genders) - 6'1"1/2
• Redguard Male - 5'9"1/2
• Redguard Female - 5'9"

So to answer your question, Bosmer aren't midgets, and they aren't tall. They're like a below average human male or average human female. I think... Not entirely sure.

Uhm, I'm pretty certain that Redguards lore-wise are supposed to be taller than average - not as tall as Altmer, but on par With Nords/Orcs. Nords definately should be taller than Imps.

Uhm no

RainfeatherUK

I've said it a thousand times as most people well know, but;

Removing the value of racial diversity and choice is bad for a TES game. Not only does it totally disregard lore and take away from the worth of racials but it also homogenizes peoples characters, making them the same, bar class and aesthetics.

Problem being that removing them, in combination with removing classes generally, results in a slippery slope to everyone being identical. With no real purposeful character choice at all.

People think thats great - until they get bored of everyone using the same abilities on the same favourite race designs and so forth.

There will be disagreement naturally but on the whole, many of us are long term TES fans and players. Take away the meaning of our races, lore and character choices without putting any actual thought into it and you will alienate most of us as players.

We dont want every other mmo sorry. We like ESO just how it is.

Helluin

It's great to have racial passives like in every TES, the problem is how these passive are especially with max stats and the removal of softcaps.

Considering lore, Bosmer are not just small but also the finest archers of Tamriel.
How can you define the best or finest archers in TESO?
I'd say damage or range.

Bosmer in TESO can learn faster to use a bow but considering stats Imperial, Redguard, Khajiit and Dunmer with an equal gear/build do more damage than Bosmer with bow (because of max stamina or weapon critical chance).

So Bosmer are the best archers in Tamriel in every TES but for TESO.

Vaerth

RainfeatherUK wrote: »

I've said it a thousand times as most people well know, but;

Removing the value of racial diversity and choice is bad for a TES game. Not only does it totally disregard lore and take away from the worth of racials but it also homogenizes peoples characters, making them the same, bar class and aesthetics.

Problem being that removing them, in combination with removing classes generally, results in a slippery slope to everyone being identical. With no real purposeful character choice at all.

People think thats great - until they get bored of everyone using the same abilities on the same favourite race designs and so forth.

There will be disagreement naturally but on the whole, many of us are long term TES fans and players. Take away the meaning of our races, lore and character choices without putting any actual thought into it and you will alienate most of us as players.

We dont want every other mmo sorry. We like ESO just how it is.

You say we like you represent everyone who plays?

Everyone who wants to be a Vampire usually goes Dunmer, for the racial, is that not everyone using the same thing to achieve the same result?

AngryNord

Vaerth wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

@Vaerth straight from the reddit, this is reliable as it gets until someone at Bethesda says otherwise.

• Altmer (both genders) - 6'8"
• Argonian Male - 5'10"
• Argonian Female- 5'9"
• Bosmer Male - 5'7''
• Bosmer Female - 5'8"
• Breton Male - 5'9"
• Breton Female - 5'4''
• Dunmer (both genders) - 5'9"
• Imperial (both genders)- 6'0"
• Khajiit Male - 5'9"
• Khajiit Female - 5'4''
• Nord (both genders)- 6'0''
• Orc (both genders) - 6'1"1/2
• Redguard Male - 5'9"1/2
• Redguard Female - 5'9"

So to answer your question, Bosmer aren't midgets, and they aren't tall. They're like a below average human male or average human female. I think... Not entirely sure.

Uhm, I'm pretty certain that Redguards lore-wise are supposed to be taller than average - not as tall as Altmer, but on par With Nords/Orcs. Nords definately should be taller than Imps.

Uhm no

Uhm, yes: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races
Nords, Argonian males, Redguards, Orcs and Altmer are all taller than average

Vaerth

AngryNord wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

@Vaerth straight from the reddit, this is reliable as it gets until someone at Bethesda says otherwise.

• Altmer (both genders) - 6'8"
• Argonian Male - 5'10"
• Argonian Female- 5'9"
• Bosmer Male - 5'7''
• Bosmer Female - 5'8"
• Breton Male - 5'9"
• Breton Female - 5'4''
• Dunmer (both genders) - 5'9"
• Imperial (both genders)- 6'0"
• Khajiit Male - 5'9"
• Khajiit Female - 5'4''
• Nord (both genders)- 6'0''
• Orc (both genders) - 6'1"1/2
• Redguard Male - 5'9"1/2
• Redguard Female - 5'9"

So to answer your question, Bosmer aren't midgets, and they aren't tall. They're like a below average human male or average human female. I think... Not entirely sure.

Uhm, I'm pretty certain that Redguards lore-wise are supposed to be taller than average - not as tall as Altmer, but on par With Nords/Orcs. Nords definately should be taller than Imps.

Uhm no

Uhm, yes: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races
Nords, Argonian males, Redguards, Orcs and Altmer are all taller than average

Uhm, No

AngryNord

OK, fine, keep on just disregarding posted lore, I've got better Things to do than this.

Rosveen

AngryNord wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

@Vaerth straight from the reddit, this is reliable as it gets until someone at Bethesda says otherwise.

• Altmer (both genders) - 6'8"
• Argonian Male - 5'10"
• Argonian Female- 5'9"
• Bosmer Male - 5'7''
• Bosmer Female - 5'8"
• Breton Male - 5'9"
• Breton Female - 5'4''
• Dunmer (both genders) - 5'9"
• Imperial (both genders)- 6'0"
• Khajiit Male - 5'9"
• Khajiit Female - 5'4''
• Nord (both genders)- 6'0''
• Orc (both genders) - 6'1"1/2
• Redguard Male - 5'9"1/2
• Redguard Female - 5'9"

So to answer your question, Bosmer aren't midgets, and they aren't tall. They're like a below average human male or average human female. I think... Not entirely sure.

Uhm, I'm pretty certain that Redguards lore-wise are supposed to be taller than average - not as tall as Altmer, but on par With Nords/Orcs. Nords definately should be taller than Imps.

Uhm no

Uhm, yes: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races
Nords, Argonian males, Redguards, Orcs and Altmer are all taller than average

Actually he's right, at least partially. You said Redguards are on par with Nords and Orcs, but they aren't - men are only slightly taller than average and women are average. Nords and Orcs of both sexes are taller than Redguard men.

However, Nords are taller than Imperials, this is true.

Majic

[...]

Well, he is the angry Nord, so chalk one up for truth in advertising.

Meanwhile, I should point out that I generally like to make my characters max height, but I made my male Bosmer Nightblade as short as possible (though somewhat muscular), and I absolutely love it.

If anyone gives you grief, just say "What. You got a problem with the little people?"

Never actually got any grief for being short, but it's nice to have a good line ready, just in case.

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Archer79

[/quote]Can you confirm that a male Bosmer is the same heights as a Male Dunmer with sliders all full height?[/quote]

I am sorry if my last post have missled you, what I meant was since they keep changing character heights with every new game, that I personally believe that all known races are of the same average height, of course I'm not saying that they look alike, nor do they have the same physiques, what I'm saying is that there average heights are roughly the same, except for the Altmer,Nords, and Orcs, as I have mentioned earlier. Now my male Bosmer is at max height and he is as tall as the shortest Dunmer, and little shorter than the average Dunmer. The height chart image that was posted earlier, I believe by @Rosveen, is the most accurate chart I've seen so far. I have to mention though very few Dunmer players & NPCs' are at maxed height so you wouldn't notice much height difference while playing PVE content, just don't stand close to an Altmer.

@AngryNord, game-play charts, and mechanics are not lore, lore comes from in-book lore books, or published lore books like the Emperor Guide and the like, because game mechanics change with every new game, sure some racial traits appear repeatedly with some races, but that might change as well, Altmer used to have weakness to flame,frost, and shock, and resistance to paralysis in previous games but not in skyrim, and of course not in ESO, Bosmer used to be great healers in The Elder Scrolls-Shadowkey, but returned to be thieves and assassins in later games. So you cant base game mechanics and racials as lore, because they do change in every new TES game that comes out.

Edit: sorry the image was posted by @Rosveen, not @Panda244, sorry again for the mixup.