Textures take too much time to load

barrrt
barrrt
✭✭✭
After 2.0.1 patch yesterday, entering a building can take few seconds to load all textures. Worst case so far, was this morning when entering the inn in Wayrest took approximately 8 seconds to load all walls, floors and ceilings. It seems the more complex the building (inns, banks, etc.) the longer it takes (makes sense). Usually not a problem with houses.

I am running up to date Yosemite, on a 2013 iMac 27” 3.5GHz i7, 24GB RAM, GeForce GTX 780M 4GB.

My graphics settings are as follows:

- window mode
- vsync on
- anti-alias off
- texture - medium
- subsampling - high
- shadow - medium
- water reflection low
- particles - 1024
- particle suppression dist - 50
- view dist - 75

Switches: ambient occlusion and magelight off, all others on.

Side note - cannot open ticket from within the game, as “Customer Support” tab in the Help menu of the game is just black area with “KNOWLEDGE BASE” text and no other controls (it’s been like this since about 1.2, give or take 1 patch).

I have already tried disabling all add-ons.
EP: Veren Sailenar - 50 DK : Isabeau Sette Tyne - 50 Sorc : This-One-Lizard-Yes - 50 Templar : Lililia Adal - 50 NB : Solea Caro - 50 DK : Igor with Vigor - 50 Sorc : Slightly-Delays-Death - 50 Templar : Balki Barthel - 50 Warden : Willowshade Roxie - 50 Warden
AD: Kael Spellbinder - 50 Templar
DC: Sharrku gra-Dusku - 50 NB
  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
    Community-Botschafter
    Hi @barrrt,

    I have the same machine (with the PCI-SSD option), and I will try to verify this issue in the same location as soon as I get home. I got the patch today, since I'm playing EU.

    The reason why you can't send a ticket at the moment is that with OS X 10.10 Yosemite , the build-in 3rd party web browser that's used to display the KB broke and crashes every time the support UI is opened.
  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
    Community-Botschafter
    Okay, been running around in Wayrest for a spell. Found a few locations where I could replicate the issue, to wit: the inn.

    <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/56/d487e14772e52693ca409d6a25fb0f.png"; />

    I've entered the inn a few times times, and it always looked like this at first. It took from 1 to 3 seconds for the textures to load from my PCI-SSD. I tried entering other large buildings, like the Sorcerers and Fighters Guild, the King's castle, and the temple, but everything was fine there (I might have seen a very slight delay in texture loading within the temple). Enter the bank building:

    <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/9b/efb1ca6396f30d7ce3c37b1ac011fd.png"; />

    This showed up only on the first time I entered, but not on repeated visits. Also, a very brief side-trip to Daggerfall was inconclusive, but this bears further testing.

    My educated guess would be that what we're seeing here is a but recently (2.0.1) implemented counter-measure to the IOKit API memory management misbehavior introduced in OS X 10.10 Yosemite. So this loading behavior might actually help with improving client uptimes, which took a hit again when people switched to Yosemite. It might need a little bit of fine-tuning, though. :wink:
  • barrrt
    barrrt
    ✭✭✭
    I did notice it with the castle as well, but everything loaded very quickly. I have also been noticing the outside house textures loading too slowly from time to time (low rez versions show up, but higher rez do not load until I get very close), especially when sprinting on the horse, and my riding speed is only 6% upgraded.

    Hopefully it will be resolved. Or rolled back... I'd rather have an occasional crash when entering a crafting station or after using a wayshrine (which has been happening from time to time, especially after 90+ minutes in PvP), than this behavior.

    Thanks for checking this out! :-)
    EP: Veren Sailenar - 50 DK : Isabeau Sette Tyne - 50 Sorc : This-One-Lizard-Yes - 50 Templar : Lililia Adal - 50 NB : Solea Caro - 50 DK : Igor with Vigor - 50 Sorc : Slightly-Delays-Death - 50 Templar : Balki Barthel - 50 Warden : Willowshade Roxie - 50 Warden
    AD: Kael Spellbinder - 50 Templar
    DC: Sharrku gra-Dusku - 50 NB
  • chris.dillman
    chris.dillman
    ✭✭✭
    Hi All,

    >counter-measure to the IOKit API memory management

    Nothing is in yet, soon...


    There is a feature or 2 now that can effect the fading in and out of high res textures on buildings etc in order to.

    This may be more visible when moving fast on a horse.
    Basically theres no point in loading a bunch of data you are about to run by past.

    Currently it is set to a rather aggressive stance on opengl.

    This will be tuned more in the future.

    This "should" not be effecting Textures loading but we will check on it.



    -- ESO -- Lead Mac Programmer...
    Staff Post
  • barrrt
    barrrt
    ✭✭✭
    Thanks Chris.

    FYI: This also happens in PvP. Standing on the SW tower at Chalman, the keep entry's stairs are just flat slanted surface unless I am standing right on the edge of the tower.
    EP: Veren Sailenar - 50 DK : Isabeau Sette Tyne - 50 Sorc : This-One-Lizard-Yes - 50 Templar : Lililia Adal - 50 NB : Solea Caro - 50 DK : Igor with Vigor - 50 Sorc : Slightly-Delays-Death - 50 Templar : Balki Barthel - 50 Warden : Willowshade Roxie - 50 Warden
    AD: Kael Spellbinder - 50 Templar
    DC: Sharrku gra-Dusku - 50 NB
  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
    Community-Botschafter
    This will be tuned more in the future.

    This "should" not be effecting Textures loading but we will check on it.
    Thanks for the update, Chris. Much appreciated. :smile:
  • Malbec
    Malbec
    Soul Shriven
    I'm having the same problem on a brand new retina 5K iMac with the M295X 4gb graphics card.
  • Windshadow_ESO
    Windshadow_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    installing a SSD on my older mac has helped a little and i no longer fall through the world which was happening about one in 20 times when i entered a space with nothing drawn but a few bits and bobs of stuff
  • barrrt
    barrrt
    ✭✭✭
    Hmm... I am not having problems falling through. That has happened only once or twice in the entire year of play, but not any time recently.
    EP: Veren Sailenar - 50 DK : Isabeau Sette Tyne - 50 Sorc : This-One-Lizard-Yes - 50 Templar : Lililia Adal - 50 NB : Solea Caro - 50 DK : Igor with Vigor - 50 Sorc : Slightly-Delays-Death - 50 Templar : Balki Barthel - 50 Warden : Willowshade Roxie - 50 Warden
    AD: Kael Spellbinder - 50 Templar
    DC: Sharrku gra-Dusku - 50 NB
  • chris.dillman
    chris.dillman
    ✭✭✭
    Hi

    So….. When these loading events happen can you all check the activity monitor and make sure theres no other running tasks that would being doing a bunch of DISK I/O work? Spotlight, Indexing, Anti Virus apps, Back up software. They are all known to kill ESO fps and data load times as ESO attempt to stream in thousands of files at a time.

    You run into a city and BAM 3000+ files load in.

    In the past we have seen reports of bad performance the day after a patch that then go away a day later.


    barrrt,

    Are you getting 90 min in PVP with before an out of memory crash on the current build?
    And is that better then the initial 1.6 build?

    In theory some of the new high res texture rejection code can save 300 MB of running ram ( this was on DX11 ).


    -- ESO -- Lead Mac Programmer...
    Staff Post
  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
    Community-Botschafter
    Settings: I played in Windowed (Fullscreen) mode, in order to be able to switch between apps. Late 2013 27" (2560x1440) iMac, 3.5 GHz Core i7 (4c/8t), 32 GB RAM, PCI-SSD, nvidia GTX 780M 4 GB VRAM. OS X 10.10.2 build 14C1510 (latest). ESO graphics options are customized down from Ultra-High default, texture and subsampling q on high.

    Test location: Entering Cloudy Dregs Inn in Wayrest, Glenumbra

    Here's what I found after a bout of testing:
    • I could only ever see textures failing to load at the very first occurrence of entering -- on any subsequent entering, everything looked as it should be
    • In order to clear the location's textures, I would try to exit the game and restart it, even do a sudo purge in-between, but funnily enough, textures were there all the time, even after restarting the game.
    • I could only kick them out by jumping into areas with completely different tile sets, e.g. going to Alikr and back did the trick for me. After doing this, textures were missing again at the first occurrence of entering.
    • Now here's the thing. During such first occurrences, immediately after entering (pressing 'E' outside the door), I would Alt-Tab out of the game's window to scrutinize the Activity Monitor's disk data or I/O bar. During this time, standing immediately behind the door, textures would not load at all, while there was next to no disk activity. Tabbing back and moving even slightly into the common room, textures would load within the reported delay time (1 - 3 seconds).
    • My samples of disk activity are inconclusive. At no time was there a higher load than usual. See attached snippets.

  • barrrt
    barrrt
    ✭✭✭
    Chris,

    No unusual disk activity when this is happening that I can tell. Although I have few things running, it's my usual set of programs that are always open. Time Machine drive is off.

    I had the same issues with Wayrest inn this morning. I was actually able to get to the fire and craft a drink before walls showed up (regular walking, no rapid maneuver or anything of sots). I haven't had a chance to try other areas before work.

    As to PvP - a bit over two hours now and no crash. I made sure to port few times, and visited crafting stations as well in the last few minutes - since those activities usually triggered the crash. The 90 minute figure is "average" of course. In some cases it would be 30, in others 2 hours+. iStat Menus is showing video card's memory usage at bout 60% and the chart is very flat for the last hour.

    I did crash in PvP last night, but it was different than previous crashes - game window disappeared, beachball came up, then I got the OSX "your application..." window. There was no crash report (all blank). The "usual" crash is accompanied by video freeze for a second or so, then crash reporter comes up filled in.

    Gotta run, DC at Arrius...

    :-)
    EP: Veren Sailenar - 50 DK : Isabeau Sette Tyne - 50 Sorc : This-One-Lizard-Yes - 50 Templar : Lililia Adal - 50 NB : Solea Caro - 50 DK : Igor with Vigor - 50 Sorc : Slightly-Delays-Death - 50 Templar : Balki Barthel - 50 Warden : Willowshade Roxie - 50 Warden
    AD: Kael Spellbinder - 50 Templar
    DC: Sharrku gra-Dusku - 50 NB
  • voyxx
    voyxx
    Soul Shriven
    I do have that problem with textures not loading properly too. It started with the update to 1.6. It seems to be a Mac problem. I checked with a friend who uses a pc with Windows. He does not have the texture loading problem. I noticed it first in the bank in Velyn harbour. Now I am in Rawl'kha and it happens in the bank and in the inn. I haven't had that problem in dungeons yet.
    Edited by voyxx on March 21, 2015 1:19PM
  • chris.dillman
    chris.dillman
    ✭✭✭
    Hi All

    Small update.
    We were able to get the texture loading issue to show up on a number of Macs
    including a new Mac Pro ( fast SSD, RAM, CPU etc where load times are generally almost instant ).

    With the launch of the ESO 2.0 patch there were some restructuring of the Threading task system
    to help distribute tasks better across more cores.

    You may have noticed that ESO now feels smoother even at lower frame rates.

    ESO is supposed to put up a loading screen if an area seems like it will take longer to load.
    That loading screen is not happening with the current build.




    -- ESO -- Lead Mac Programmer...
    Staff Post
  • adarkartist
    adarkartist
    ✭✭
    Hi All

    Small update.
    We were able to get the texture loading issue to show up on a number of Macs
    including a new Mac Pro ( fast SSD, RAM, CPU etc where load times are generally almost instant ).

    With the launch of the ESO 2.0 patch there were some restructuring of the Threading task system
    to help distribute tasks better across more cores.

    You may have noticed that ESO now feels smoother even at lower frame rates.

    ESO is supposed to put up a loading screen if an area seems like it will take longer to load.
    That loading screen is not happening with the current build.




    so this happens with almost every building I enter, does that mean every building i enter is going to have a load screen when u fix it?
  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
    Community-Botschafter
    Thanks for the update, Chris!
    With the launch of the ESO 2.0 patch there were some restructuring of the Threading task system
    to help distribute tasks better across more cores.
    I was under the impression that OS X core utilization was already running circles around that of Windows. So this was a change to mainly help Windows get into gear, perhaps?

    Edited by KhajitFurTrader on March 22, 2015 4:42PM
  • chris.dillman
    chris.dillman
    ✭✭✭
    Hi All

    Small update.
    We were able to get the texture loading issue to show up on a number of Macs
    including a new Mac Pro ( fast SSD, RAM, CPU etc where load times are generally almost instant ).

    With the launch of the ESO 2.0 patch there were some restructuring of the Threading task system
    to help distribute tasks better across more cores.

    You may have noticed that ESO now feels smoother even at lower frame rates.

    ESO is supposed to put up a loading screen if an area seems like it will take longer to load.
    That loading screen is not happening with the current build.


    so this happens with almost every building I enter, does that mean every building i enter is going to have a load screen when u fix it?


    HI adarkartist

    It might.

    Depends on what kind of solution we come up with.

    Remember the OSX, Windows, PS4 all work very differently underneath.
    You can't actually do the exact same things on all of them in the same way.



    -- ESO -- Lead Mac Programmer...
    Staff Post
  • chris.dillman
    chris.dillman
    ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the update, Chris!
    With the launch of the ESO 2.0 patch there were some restructuring of the Threading task system
    to help distribute tasks better across more cores.
    I was under the impression that OS X core utilization was already running circles around that of Windows. So this was a change to mainly help Windows get into gear, perhaps?

    KhajitFurTrader

    MMOs are an organic moving target of code :)
    Anyhow the need for changes to the engine and how task threading happens is for the game consoles.

    Xbox One and PS4 are basically cheap PCs with a bunch of slow cores (8?)

    Making a modern game engine scale between 3-4 processors is pretty easy / straight forward.

    Making an engine scale between 8 cores is a whole new level of complexity.

    The side effect of console work is that any optimization should have a long term positive effect on PC / Mac.

    -- ESO -- Lead Mac Programmer...
    Staff Post
  • curlyqloub14_ESO
    curlyqloub14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭
    Well, first off, glad to find this thread, as I'm seeing the same issue, and was concerned that my less-than-a-year-old iMac was failing. So, good to know it's not my machine.

    However, this...

    so this happens with almost every building I enter, does that mean every building i enter is going to have a load screen when u fix it?
    It might.

    Depends on what kind of solution we come up with.


    ...makes me very sad. Please, please please - there must be a better solution than loading screens EVERY time I enter a building.

    Edited by curlyqloub14_ESO on March 23, 2015 9:27PM
  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
    Community-Botschafter
  • rampoob16_ESO
    Same here, every building, new Mac....earlier ESO Version no Problem. If you put a loading screen for every building...the game for me is gone :(
  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
    Community-Botschafter
    Been running around the busy cities of Daggerfall and Wayrest tonight, now that I have 2.0.2.

    Frist thing I did was reset graphics settings to Default (as always). Decent frame rates, no loading screens. Only thing that was very noticeable was the "late" LOD texture change, i.e. it happened when the building or structure in question was so close that it was very visible. Also, the way the high-res texture blended over the lower-res was very "pronounced". Either effect was a bit "immersion-braking".

    Outside of town I noticed that the shadowing of objects crept slowly before me in the direction I was moving. Reminded me a bit of the light on Diskworld, which "slows down when moving through a strong magic field".

    Have to play around with view distance, it's still on 37 by default.

    Edit: and yes, I still saw the delayed texture loading in some, but not all larger buildings. Cloudy Dregs Inn in Wayrest was fine however, no matter what I did.
    Edited by KhajitFurTrader on March 24, 2015 8:46PM
  • chris.dillman
    chris.dillman
    ✭✭✭

    Been running around the busy cities of Daggerfall and Wayrest tonight, now that I have 2.0.2.

    Outside of town I noticed that the shadowing of objects crept slowly before me in the direction I was moving. Reminded me a bit of the light on Diskworld, which "slows down when moving through a strong magic field".

    Hi KhajitFurTrader,

    It's always been that way. Please make sure when you went back to default settings it did not restore things to high versus ultra. Theres a change in place for the hardware test not to recommend Ultra on Mac anymore.
    Edit: and yes, I still saw the delayed texture loading in some, but not all larger buildings. Cloudy Dregs Inn in Wayrest was fine however, no matter what I did.

    >>>We have yet to address this issue, but will look into it.

    UPDATE… The late texture loading happens on PCs also.


    Edited by chris.dillman on March 27, 2015 4:52PM
    -- ESO -- Lead Mac Programmer...
    Staff Post
  • LameoveR
    LameoveR
    ✭✭✭✭
    I have found a cause of a long time texture load.
    It relates to D3D9 graphic setting in usersettings.txt file.
    In D3D11 i have no delay in texture load, but with D3D9 it takes some time.
    sorry for my bad english o:)
    Edited by LameoveR on March 30, 2015 5:56AM

  • baratron
    baratron
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am so glad that there's a thread about this and that ZoS people are already looking into it. It's driving me mad! When I walk into Elden Root, this is what I see:
    gVzDK.png

    I expect to have loading issues because my laptop has the literal minimum graphics required to run ESO, but my friend who has a mid-2014 MacBook Pro with 16 GB of RAM is seeing the same thing. It's actually painful! I expect to be on Minimum graphics, but his machine should be able to manage Medium easily.

    Personally, the only other app I run at the same time as ESO is Joystick Mapper. I run my game directly from the dock so I don't even run the Launcher.
    Guildmaster of the UESP Guild on the North American PC/Mac Server 750+ CP
    Martin Draconis - Imperial Sorceror Healer (Aldmeri Dominion) level 50
    Alix de Feu - Breton Templar Healer (Daggerfall Covenant) level 50
    Arzhela Petit - Breton Dragonknight Healer (Daggerfall Covenant) level 50
    Brings-His-Own-Forest - Argonian Warden Healer (Aldmeri Dominion) level 50
    Verandis Bloodraven - Altmer Nightblade Healer & clone of Count Verandis Ravenwatch (Aldmeri Dominion) level 50
    Bjornolfr Steel-Shaper - Nord Dragonknight Crafter & Not-Much-Damage Dealer (Ebonheart Pact) level 50
    Hrodulf Bearpaw - Nord Warden Bear Friend & identical twin of Bjornolfr (Aldmeri Dominion) level 50
    Gethin Oakrun - Bosmer Nightblade Thief & terrible Tank (Ebonheart Pact) level 50
  • LameoveR
    LameoveR
    ✭✭✭✭
    [EDIT] Solution for PC.
    Close game and launcher.
    Go to your Documents\Elder Scrolls Online\live folder
    open usersettings.txt file
    find there line SET GraphicsDriver.7 "D3D9"
    change it to
    SET GraphicsDriver.7 "D3D11"
    Restart game and take a look at texture loading.

    Sorry, i'm just looking at RECENT discussions and trying to help and get some info ;)
    Edited by LameoveR on March 30, 2015 8:48PM

  • barrrt
    barrrt
    ✭✭✭
    LameoveR wrote: »
    Close game and launcher.
    Go to your Documents\Elder Scrolls Online\live folder
    open usersettings.txt file
    find there line SET GraphicsDriver.7 "D3D9"
    change it to
    SET GraphicsDriver.7 "D3D11"
    Restart game and take a look at texture loading.

    This is a thread on Mac support forum. OS X uses OpenGL, not DirectX.
    EP: Veren Sailenar - 50 DK : Isabeau Sette Tyne - 50 Sorc : This-One-Lizard-Yes - 50 Templar : Lililia Adal - 50 NB : Solea Caro - 50 DK : Igor with Vigor - 50 Sorc : Slightly-Delays-Death - 50 Templar : Balki Barthel - 50 Warden : Willowshade Roxie - 50 Warden
    AD: Kael Spellbinder - 50 Templar
    DC: Sharrku gra-Dusku - 50 NB
  • Srithla
    Srithla
    ✭✭
    I'm seeing the same thing as @baratron inside most of the buildings in Davon's Watch. I never had this issue before 2.0.x. This is completely new.

    I also looked at the user settings.txt file as @LameoveR suggests, but didn't touch it because mine has a value of "OPENGL", which is probably expected as this is the Mac tech support forum and I think the other settings refer to DirectX, which is PC only. If we should try this nonetheless, I'll give it a go.

    (Stats if it matters: MBPro late 2013, 2.6 quad core 17, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M with 2 GB VRAM, running 10.9.5, so it's not just Yosemite. (I had too many issues with Yosemite, so migrated back, but that's a separate issue.) Also seen on our earlier MBPro, too.)
    Edited by Srithla on March 30, 2015 8:41PM
  • LameoveR
    LameoveR
    ✭✭✭✭
    Sorry :( Didn't take a look at forum name.
    Edited by LameoveR on March 30, 2015 8:41PM

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