Why does Mournhold look nothing like it did in TESIII?

ariseraw

The other cities that were featured in Oblivion and Skyrim look at least somewhat similar to the ESO versions. However, Mournhold in ESO looks absolutely NOTHING like it does in Morrowind (Tribunal expansion). Did the developers not know or not care about what the city is supposed to look like? Yes ESO takes place about 800 years before TESIII, but is there some lore explanation? Was that whole area destroyed at some point? Even if that's the case, at least for the fans sake they could have at least tried making them look more alike.

I hope the cities of Vvardenfell won't be treated the same way if that area is ever included. If Balmora looks nothing like it does in TESIII I will be pissed off.

I made a comparison video on YouTube called "Mournhold in ESO vs Mournhold in TESIII" where I walk through some of the same areas, only part of Tribunal temple is similar and that's it...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DNGNbkl34pU

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO

ariseraw wrote: »

The other cities that were featured in Oblivion and Skyrim look at least somewhat similar to the ESO versions. However, Mournhold in ESO looks absolutely NOTHING like it does in Morrowind (Tribunal expansion). Did the developers not know or not care about what the city is supposed to look like? Yes ESO takes place about 800 years before TESIII, but is there some lore explanation? Was that whole area destroyed at some point? Even if that's the case, at least for the fans sake they could have at least tried making them look more alike.

I hope the cities of Vvardenfell won't be treated the same way if that area is ever included. If Balmora looks nothing like it does in TESIII I will be pissed off.

I made a comparison video on YouTube called "Mournhold in ESO vs Mournhold in TESIII" where I walk through some of the same areas, only part of Tribunal temple is similar and that's it...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DNGNbkl34pU

Because I Changed It,

Your Lord,

MEHRUNES DAGON

akredon_ESO

Well you also gotta realize this is quite a few centuries before the events of morrowind. Currently ESO is set in 2E 582 - Morrowind is set in 3E 427 So there is a large time difference between the events of ESO and morrowind.

timidobserver

I hate to be that guy, but becuase this isn't TESIII. Come into ESO judging it as ESO, not wanting it to be some other game based in another time period.

Horrum

timidobserver wrote: »

I hate to be that guy, but becuase this isn't TESIII. Come into ESO judging it as ESO, not wanting it to be some other game based in another time period.

What a useless reply. The OP did not say he wanted this to be another game. He is merely expressing a curiosity and it is a valid question.

ESO actually has a guy responsible for maintaining the lore and keeping it reasonably aligned with the TES universe, which includes Morrowind. Hence the question makes sense.

OP, I unfortunately do not have the answer, but now I am curious!

bloodenragedb14_ESO

for one thing, we are on the mainland. tes 3 was on the island vvardenfell

Runhent

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Because I Changed It,

Your Lord,

MEHRUNES DAGON

Hey, Lord, but you changed it in the First Era!

There was (will be) a few wars between TESO and Morrowind (Tiber Wars, Arnesian War). The city grew, destroyed, rebuilt. Or will be

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Runhent wrote: »

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Because I Changed It,

Your Lord,

MEHRUNES DAGON

Hey, Lord, but you changed it in the First Era!

There was (will be) a few wars between TESO and Morrowind (Tiber Wars, Arnesian War). The city grew, destroyed, rebuilt. Or will be

relocated

zhevon

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

for one thing, we are on the mainland. tes 3 was on the island vvardenfell

Yes TES 3 proper was on Vvardenfell, but to get to Mournhold you "teleport" there and its on the mainland.

Enodoc

Lawrence_Schick wrote:

We gave a lot of thought to this, actually. Early Mournhold was largely destroyed by Mehrunes Dagon at the end of the First Era; the city you see in ESO has been gradually rebuilt from that time. After the Interregnum, Almalexia commissions and has built the greater city you see in Tribunal, partly as a reaction to the rise of Tiber Septim.

In practical game terms, big cities in MMOs are kind of a pain in the neck for players to get around in. For that reason Mournhold is as big as we need it to be and no bigger.

[source]

ariseraw

Don't get me wrong, I like how Mournhold looks in ESO, it's just way too different with no real distinct similarities. However, the cities from Oblivion & Skyrim that have a version on ESO, are somewhat similar. I was just curious as to why Mournhold didn't get the same treatment.

On another note: The cities from TES I & II look nothing like any of the other games, but that's understandable, because those are old DOS Games with graphics that are comparable to minecraft, so they don't count.

Anvos

Your answer is in your question, very few cities would stay the same for over a millennia and if your goddess says were redesigning the city you do it.

rich.magab14a_ESO

ariseraw wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I like how Mournhold looks in ESO, it's just way too different with no real distinct similarities. However, the cities from Oblivion & Skyrim that have a version on ESO, are somewhat similar. I was just curious as to why Mournhold didn't get the same treatment.

On another note: The cities from TES I & II look nothing like any of the other games, but that's understandable, because those are old DOS Games with graphics that are comparable to minecraft, so they don't count.

I think it has to do more with when the games were created then lore. Obviously TES3 looks light years behind Oblivion and skyrim. Maybe so much so that zenimax thought they needed to start over from scratch

Gilvoth

no, it has nothing to do with time or any of that garbage excuses.

the true treason they are completely not the same is because the developers have never played morrowind nor have they even beheld Vvardenfell. and not only have they never played it they have never obviously even looked at pictures of it iether.

they cant draw something they have never seen before.

Enodoc

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

no, it has nothing to do with time or any of that garbage excuses.

the true treason they are completely not the same is because the developers have never played morrowind nor have they even beheld Vvardenfell. and not only have they never played it they have never obviously even looked at pictures of it iether.

they cant draw something they have never seen before.

That's a bit unfair to Lawrence, at least he came up with a believable retcon.

Xinz'r

timidobserver wrote: »

I hate to be that guy, but becuase this isn't TESIII. Come into ESO judging it as ESO, not wanting it to be some other game based in another time period.

I don't agree with this at all. I undestand that ESO is completely different game, but it's they placed it by themselves in an already existing universe and they should've just improved the appearances of cities, not change it.
If they selected an already existing universe, then they should stick with it.

Gilvoth

Enodoc wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

no, it has nothing to do with time or any of that garbage excuses.

the true treason they are completely not the same is because the developers have never played morrowind nor have they even beheld Vvardenfell. and not only have they never played it they have never obviously even looked at pictures of it iether.

they cant draw something they have never seen before.

That's a bit unfair to Lawrence, at least he came up with a believable retcon.

let me put your comment in the direction of the truth. Lawrence was hired later after eso was allready rolling and he has nothing to do with this topic we are discussing here "the apperiance and looks of mournhold"
i have him on video where some one opens the door and lawrence spins around with the look on his face as if he is ready to cut thier head off because hes driven to the point of insanity from having to justify things in his work to fit what they have destroyed in eso compared to the single player games.
Lawrence is not to blame for any faults in eso in my belief as he so far in my eyes has done no wrong in his position.
and it is not him to whom i am refering to in my previous comment here on this page.

Xinz'r

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

no, it has nothing to do with time or any of that garbage excuses.

the true treason they are completely not the same is because the developers have never played morrowind nor have they even beheld Vvardenfell. and not only have they never played it they have never obviously even looked at pictures of it iether.

they cant draw something they have never seen before.

That's a bit unfair to Lawrence, at least he came up with a believable retcon.

let me put your comment in the direction of the truth. Lawrence was hired later after eso was allready rolling and he has nothing to do with this topic we are discussing here "the apperiance and looks of mournhold"
i have him on video where some one opens the door and lawrence spins around with the look on his face as if he is ready to cut thier head off because hes driven to the point of insanity from having to justify things in his work to fit what they have destroyed in eso compared to the single player games.
Lawrence is not to blame for any faults in eso in my belief as he so far in my eyes has done no wrong in his position.
and it is not him to whom i am refering to in my previous comment here on this page.

+1

Elsonso

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

no, it has nothing to do with time or any of that garbage excuses.

the true treason they are completely not the same is because the developers have never played morrowind nor have they even beheld Vvardenfell. and not only have they never played it they have never obviously even looked at pictures of it iether.

they cant draw something they have never seen before.

Actually, the true reason is that, for Tribunal, the game designers created an isolated walled city specifically for the purpose of Tribunal and nothing beyond it. It was built around the limitations of the Gamebryo engine that TES III is built on. It does not really fit into the rest of Morrowind because it is not really in Morrowind. It might as well have been an Oblivion plane. It has a ton of useless space, players cannot leave the city (there is nothing outside), and there is little reason to ever go back there. It was designed to support the quests and was not really designed as a city.

Along comes ZOS and ESO. They need a Mournhold that fits into ESO. Mournhold from Tribunal was created for a different game and for a different reason. It does not actually meet the needs of ESO. So, for the same reason that Cyrodiil in ESO has only a cursory resemblance to the one in Oblivion, and why things in Eastmarch and The Rift do not match up exactly with what is in the game Skyrim, the ESO version of Mournhold was designed to fit into Deshaan, not the Tribunal DLC.

When, or if, we ever get to Vvardenfell or the remainder of Cyrodiil and Skyrim that are not yet in ESO, this will continue. The places in ESO will resemble those in prior games, but will be different.


EDIT: Oh, and if you have nostalgic memories of the Imperial City from Oblivion and expect that it will look the same in ESO, best you park those expectations somewhere safe before entering the Imperial City of ESO.

Enodoc

lordrichter wrote: »

EDIT: Oh, and if you have nostalgic memories of the Imperial City from Oblivion and expect that it will look the same in ESO, best you park those expectations somewhere safe before entering the Imperial City of ESO.

I'm not expecting much from Imperial City, but I at least hope they put it at the right angle...
The datamined map is misaligned by 30° compared to IC in Oblivion

ariseraw

I think pretty much everyone is expecting certain things from the imperial city. The market district, the elven gardens district and of course, the ARENA.

Expect a backlash from fans if they
aren't included.

wolfydog

Always possible stuff in ES3 morrowind where designed with computer limitations of the early 00's in mind, meaning repeating it today would be stupid when they could do so much more.

CrazedDark

Put the detail quality as low as you can go and it'll feel more like ES Morrowind than you think. XD

Apokh

Looking forward to see real Life city comparisms <<today and in 1200 A.D>>

Really excited, to see how big the differences would be. Especially
- Angkor Wat
- Machu Picchu
- New York City
- Kairo
- Athens
- Tokyo

Hope you will soon bring some of those great comparisms on youtube! Send me a PN then!!!

leshpar

The way I see it is that cities change, sometimes very drastically over the course of time.

I mean, noone expects any of the cities in Daggerfall to look the same as they did in TES2. Those cities were huge and mostly flat. Quite amazing looking cities too (some of them anyway). Let's not even get started on TES1. Basically TES3 is so old now that its hard to use as reference material. It was the first of the true 3D elder scrolls games (in the modern sense), but the game design is so archaic compared to today that I guess some liberties have to be taken.

That being said I still think Morrowind and Daggerfall are amazing games even by today's standards.

Wrathmane

I can't wait to see Sadrith Mora...... I really hope they keep it looking relatively the same as Morrowind........ if we ever see Vvardenfell in this game.........

jircris11

Let us consider the time line. ESO is before daggerfell and arena, and those are before morrowind/oblivion and skyrim. Within said time i am sure the city would slowly grow and become what we know from the singleplayer games. Heck on the release of the dragonborn DLC i got to take a trip back to a city i saw in morrowind and my how it changed.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

i think i already posted on this thread, hard to keep track, but if not ill say this

in TES3 you were on vvardenfell, the big ass island that is apart of morrowind, they probably moved the city as time went on

Enodoc

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

i think i already posted on this thread, hard to keep track, but if not ill say this

in TES3 you were on vvardenfell, the big ass island that is apart of morrowind, they probably moved the city as time went on

Yes you did say that already
But the Tribunal expansion to Morrowind took place in Mournhold, which is and always has been on the mainland, not on Vvardenfell.

Ranique

From the Biography of Queen Barenziah:

Excellency Tiber Septim I, the first Emperor of Tamriel, demanded that the decadent rulers of Morrowind yield to him and institute imperial reforms. Trusting to their vaunted magic, the Dark Elves impudently refused until Tiber Septim's army was on the borders. An Armistice was hastily signed by the now-eager Dunmer, but not before there were several battles, one of which laid waste to Mournhold, now called Almalexia.

This happened during the Tiber Wars, after the events in ESO and before the events in TESIII. So the city was completely destroyed and rebuild.

Deyirn

Dude, chill. What happens in ESO happened 1000 years before what happens in TESIII. For 1000 years cities were razed, new ones were built, etc. Look at your hometown pictures from the recent years and from 1000 years ago, does the difference make you pissed? Are you gonna sue the universe for the existence of time?