@ Zenimax: When will you update / improve the ESO User Interface?

Seraphyel

As the title suggests, it's about the User Interface - again.

I don't know where to start, it's just a mess.


There are some attributes that can be equipped via special items but aren't shown in the character screen (because there is no space(lol?) for it),

you don't see your buffs,

you don't see your debuffs,

there is no tab for the Justice System,

there is no tab for the Champion System (or a better visual appearance in the character screen),

there is no option to show numbers for damage / healing (unless tooltips clearly suggest numbers - what logic is this?),

there is no option to see what class your target is playing,

in your group interface you can't see Magicka / Stamina / "Shield" health of your group members,

no system for saving outfits / skillbars,

and so much more... shall I continue?


How will anyone play ESO on the consoles without ANY of the addons that are provided by some great community members (thank you!)? (Yes, I know some guys that tend to use no addons, but excuse me, you can't play on a competitive level without information delivered by some addons)

I don't know how you (=Zenimax) came up with such an awful interface next to the fact that your game enforces theorycrafting, buff / debuff stacking and many other things and I am sure the totally horrible UI is a reason why ESO struggled in its first year. Minimalism is great, but please provide some room for less minimalistic players.

Sure let the players play as they want to, with or without addons, but there should be at least the option to activate or turn off some UI elements and something like combat log & numbers.

I know, this topic surfaces every now and then but it's an important topic, at least when console version hit the stores.

Are you going to vastly improve the UI until then? I hope so. The current UI is an inexcusable mess.

JD2013

I would rather see the world as opposed to numbers and endless text thanks.

But if they want to implement these with an option to turn them off then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ whyever not?

Seraphyel

JD2013 wrote: »

But if they want to implement these with an option to turn them off then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ whyever not?

That's what I said. "Whyever not" is a good question Zenimax has no reply.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

The day they fixed all bugs and exploits, so they can show us how the game really works without embarassing themselves.

FrostixX

I agree, this UI is just total garbage. All we can do to fix it is to download add-ons and in every single update, we have to update those addons which is annoying. FIX UI, it's not that hard.

Elijah_Crow

Many of us love the current UI. My opinion is many of the addon's ruin it. I'm not looking to play WOW or SWTOR.

daemonios

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Many of us love the current UI. My opinion is many of the addon's ruin it. I'm not looking to play WOW or SWTOR.

I agree that combat add-ons may only appeal to a certain cross-section of players. That said, given the combat mechanics, the lack of some of the information mentioned by the OP is particularly disturbing. You can stack resistances in jewelry, but the UI never shows you anything more than "spell resistance", for instance. Lots of skills (both active and passive) or glyphs also give you stamina/magicka reduction, but there is nowhere you can check your total reduction.

In any case, how about:

- Properly categorized inventories (i.e. you can go through heavy/medium/light armour in the armour tab, or woodworking/clothing/blacksmithing/etc. in the materials tab);
- Proper guild store search (the current add-ons are a hack at best and require you to retrieve ALL the items in the guild store each time to give accurate results);
- Proper information about known traits/styles/recipes without having to go to a crafting station.

These are things that off the top of my head would improve the gameplay of just about anyone. I did try to go without add-ons for a few months after launch (fearing that some might be abandoned by their devs, as often happens) but I was losing HOURS of game time trying to find stuff in my inventory or doing some other boring, menial, unproductive task.

Add-ons are great. But they shouldn't be an excuse for a frankly poor standard UI. And with the launch of the console version, which probably won't be able to use any add-ons, it will create a large divide between console and PC players.

Audigy

I like the UI and don't use any addons. To me less is more.

Seraphyel

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Many of us love the current UI. My opinion is many of the addon's ruin it. I'm not looking to play WOW or SWTOR.

That's why I said make it optional.

If you love the current UI, play with it, no issues about that. But there are players that want to play on a competitive level, want to do time runs etc. without being forced to use external addons.

Right now, ESO has got the same mechanics as WoW / SW:TOR but with a horrible UI and no overview of your character. I think that's not positive at all. If a game enforces me to theorycraft, test things out and make experiments with attributes, there should be at least an optional way to show the results.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

FIX UI, it's not that hard.

Apparently it is, to them.

I have at least some basic skills in the field, and I have to turn a blind eye towards the bad UI design in ESO when I play. I'm not talking about the combat UI. It's all the rest that annoys me: the inventory, banks, guild stores, mail, crafting screens. I stopped complaining about it months ago. My attempts at constructive feedback have been for nothing. I suspect they have put the UI issues on lowest priority and nobody is working on it. I can't believe a real person doing real work would succeed in doing so little for so long.

Skjoldur

"immersion" is both reason and excuse, i guess.

I have never used so many addons in any other game. For instance AwesomeGuildStore. The standard trading post interface was driving me nuts.

There are so many things that could easily have been made optional instead of forcing their vision of an immersive interface on everyone. For instance nameplates for players or symbols for merchants etc. Some people like them, so why not give it to them? ZOS could still have just force-deactivated them in Cyrodiil.

Not to mention more information about characters, combat etc. Have you ever missed a whisper, because there is no sound? Or do you miss information about expected wait times in the rudimentary group finder? The list is very long...

Skjoldur

FrostixX wrote: »

I agree, this UI is just total garbage. All we can do to fix it is to download add-ons and in every single update, we have to update those addons which is annoying. FIX UI, it's not that hard.

Try ZAM Minion. It updates everything with the press of one button.

Minack

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Many of us love the current UI. My opinion is many of the addon's ruin it. I'm not looking to play WOW or SWTOR.

This is what you're up against, OP.

People who don't raid or PvP, but think their immersion is more important that QOL improvements to the UI. Even if it is an option, these people will complain that one day, in some future guild they'll never join, they might be asked to use it.

Mikoto

I do believe they said they are integrating addon features into the console ui then going back to updating the PC ui with the improvements but don't quote me on that. I do recall it was said when asked about voice chat/controller/console features. I for one want to see more information but still kept in a minimal level on the Hud or even then have it all on toggles so we can see what we want and remove what's not important.

Chuggernaut

I've brought it up a ton and submitted a few tickets on it. The character sheet and HUD are garbage in this game. I makes no sense after being buffed that you cannot easily find in combat when they are ending, and sometimes not even see them on the character sheet.

Also, why can't I see my Dunmer racial passive fire resistance on my character sheet? You can try addons to display more, but racial passives never make it on to the character sheet regardless of what addon you use (or at least out of all the ones I've tried).

zeuseason

I love addons and this argument has been going on for a year now so I have a good feeling it'll never change.

asteldian

Its not just about the add ons 'TES' purists are against due to cluttering the world either.
I use 32 add ons, I freely admit about 10 of these are to satisfy the MMOer in me, but all the others have zero impact on the clean UI and are purely improvemnts that should be the default.
Being able to lock items so they don't show up in decon or sales lists, items being flagged as an unknown trait so you don't have to keep running to a craft table to check or have your own out of game spreadsheet, wykkyds outfitter so you don't have to trailer through your bags to change to another role. Advanced filters to make finding things in inventory easier. Awesome guildatore so that it saves your damn searches at traders.

Seriously, good for you if you play without add ons, but even ignoring the 'immersion breaking' ones, you are seriously missing out.

KhajitFurTrader

Seraphyel wrote: »

you don't see your buffs,

you don't see your debuffs,

I suppose you're meaning that they're not displayed on the main screen, because you can see them all, including their duration, in the Character window [c].

When I take a look at my health bar while in combat, I sometimes see different visual effects on it, and then I know that I'm under the influence of something good or bad. What it is exactly I think I don't need to know in the most cases, because I don't have the time to mouse over little icons and read tiny texts. Most de/buffs are visually displayed directly on the character, and for most CCs there are ample visual hints, too. With the exception of food and toggles like Magelight and Daedric Armor, most de/buffs in the game are so short-lived, a dedicated buff bar would serve no real purpose, other than to be a constant distraction.

Seraphyel wrote: »

there is no tab for the Justice System,

Could you please elaborate why there should be one, and what should be shown there?

I can see the standing of my characters and their current bounty, including the time it'll fade, in the lower right corner of the display. And again, the Character window has the numbers for the current height of the bounty.

Seraphyel wrote: »

there is no option to show numbers for damage / healing (unless tooltips clearly suggest numbers - what logic is this?),

The logic is that you're playing a visually rich fantasy game which stresses ("totally uncool and outdated", some might say) concepts like "immersion", and not a spreadsheet. If you want, you can see bars emptying or filling, and the speed with which this happens might tell you how effective you are at whatever you're doing. For some, this is more than sufficient. For others, not so. But neither of those are more in the right with their POV than the others.

Seraphyel wrote: »

[...skipping...]
I don't know how you (=Zenimax) came up with such an awful interface next to the fact that your game enforces theorycrafting,
[...skipping...]

It does? Didn't I get the memo again? Damn, so there I was, playing the game and totally enjoying myself, and boom! they tell me I'm doing it wrong!

Sorry, but I don't buy this argument. No-one is forced to theorycraft in any game, ever. One can, if one is inclined to do so, but no-one ever absolutely has to in order to play and enjoy a game.

Seraphyel wrote: »

Are you going to vastly improve the UI until then? I hope so. The current UI is an inexcusable mess.

Well, I could crack the obvious joke about all of this being "inexcusable hyperbole", but that would be hyperbole. So let me finish by saying that I strongly disagree with your allegations and that the UI is not, in any way, a mess. Nor is it broken. It might need some added polish in areas like usability and work flow, but all in all it befits the game, which is becoming more and more true to its Elder Scrolls legacy.

kewl

Sadly, they won't. Console customers take priority now. Get used to being second fiddle.

Bloodfang

Most of the things you listed are not used by the majority of gamers (casuals). Why? Because they are tools to harass other players in dungeons / raids.

No you don't need to see other player buffs, debuffs, health, magicka or whatever..This is one thing ZOS handled so much better than their competitors. Allowing that as an option shouldn't be allowed either, because that only leads to griefing other players, to a point where they just stop raiding, running dungeons.. Eventually if you want to be competitive you just need to start using more and more addons -> which leads to a cluster**** on your screen.

ESO is a TES game, an exceptional RPG game. Don't turn it into a flying number rainbow MMO, with so "Modern UI" that you can't even look at the game, but rather just watch the flying numbers and 10 different spreadsheets on your screen.

Sorry but playing with all those things is neither skillful nor a good game experience. Skill is -> doing raids without any outside addon help.

Ourorboros

Right on OP. Were it not for wonderful work from add-on authors and Minion to keep them updated, I would not still be playing this game. But here's the Catch 22: our enjoyment depends so much on add-on authors keeping up with game changes, but they could drop that support at any time, leaving us with a broken add-on. I know many add-on authors have said they plan to be here, and keep their work going (THANK YOU), but as the recent travails of @Wykkyd show, anything can happen. We would not be 'hostage' to add-ons if they were incorporated by ZOS, with toggles so those who don't want them don't have to use them.

Seraphyel

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

I suppose you're meaning that they're not displayed on the main screen, because you can see them all, including their duration, in the Character window [c].

I want to see my buffs & debuffs when I need some: while being in combat. That's the issue. If you are in combat, you can't open your character sheet just for checking what's going on.

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

When I take a look at my health bar while in combat, I sometimes see different visual effects on it, and then I know that I'm under the influence of something good or bad. What it is exactly I think I don't need to know in the most cases, because I don't have the time to mouse over little icons and read tiny texts. Most de/buffs are visually displayed directly on the character, and for most CCs there are ample visual hints, too. With the exception of food and toggles like Magelight and Daedric Armor, most de/buffs in the game are so short-lived, a dedicated buff bar would serve no real purpose, other than to be a constant distraction.

They recently removed visual effects because they caused lags in Cyrodiil. Take DKs Igneous Shield that gives you Major Mending. Before 1.6 your hands glowed in a dark orange as long as the buff was active, right now there is no visual for it anymore - how the hell am I supposed to know when it's active and when it isn't? It's not even shown in the character screen.

Most debuffs / buffs are visually displayed? No, they aren't. See my sentence above. Or take DKs DoTs as an example. I've got 4 skills that gives you a DoT (=debuff), you only see your character burning. Is one DoT on me? Two? Nobody knows. You burn with one and you burn with ten different Fire-DoTs.

It's not distraction to know what's going on. If you don't want to see it, turn it off. But there needs to be at least the option to show it.

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

Could you please elaborate why there should be one, and what should be shown there?

I can see the standing of my characters and their current bounty, including the time it'll fade, in the lower right corner of the display. And again, the Character window has the numbers for the current height of the bounty.

Maybe what you did? What it costed? There are so much interesting things to know about it but you can't see them. In the lower right corner there is this symbol but you can't even see or open it.

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

The logic is that you're playing a visually rich fantasy game which stresses ("totally uncool and outdated", some might say) concepts like "immersion", and not a spreadsheet. If you want, you can see bars emptying or filling, and the speed with which this happens might tell you how effective you are at whatever you're doing. For some, this is more than sufficient. For others, not so. But neither of those are more in the right with their POV than the others.

No, there is no logic at all. This game is all about numbers. But the funniest part is the fact that they don't show us those numbers. There is no logic in that.

And again, give us at least the option to show it. Immersion is good for those who want it but it should not limit my character overview.

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

Sorry, but I don't buy this argument. No-one is forced to theorycraft in any game, ever. One can, if one is inclined to do so, but no-one ever absolutely has to in order to play and enjoy a game.

You don't have to theorycraft, but that doesn't turn tables that theorycrafting is a huge part "beyond" the skill system. You just limit yourself when you don't do it - again, it's okay to ignore it, but some want to theorycraft to play on a competitive level. And the game offers you no tools for it although it's totally about theorycrafting.

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

Well, I could crack the obvious joke about all of this being "inexcusable hyperbole", but that would be hyperbole. So let me finish by saying that I strongly disagree with your allegations and that the UI is not, in any way, a mess. Nor is it broken. It might need some added polish in areas like usability and work flow, but all in all it befits the game, which is becoming more and more true to its Elder Scrolls legacy.

It's a mess and it's broken. Nobody can deny that. Players like you might enjoy the interface, but it's inexcusable that there is not even an option for all of my points.

Seraphyel

Bloodfang wrote: »

Most of the things you listed are not used by the majority of gamers (casuals). Why? Because they are tools to harass other players in dungeons / raids.

No you don't need to see other player buffs, debuffs, health, magicka or whatever..This is one thing ZOS handled so much better than their competitors. Allowing that as an option shouldn't be allowed either, because that only leads to griefing other players, to a point where they just stop raiding, running dungeons.. Eventually if you want to be competitive you just need to start using more and more addons -> which leads to a cluster**** on your screen.

ESO is a TES game, an exceptional RPG game. Don't turn it into a flying number rainbow MMO, with so "Modern UI" that you can't even look at the game, but rather just watch the flying numbers and 10 different spreadsheets on your screen.

Sorry but playing with all those things is neither skillful nor a good game experience. Skill is -> doing raids without any outside addon help.

My buffs. My debuffs. And as a healer I really want to see what my group mates are doing, I want to know their Magicka, Stamina and so on. It's mandatory.

I am sure MOST gamers use those things, even casuals. Those are no e-peen or elite player things, all of those listed things are BASICS.

ESO is a themepark MMORPG like WoW and SW:TOR but less developed and with an awful UI. That's a fact. Most things ES games are famous for are missing in ESO. This game is more MMORPG than it is Elder Scrolls.

And no, skill is not doing raids without addon help. Skill is to handle what you've got. Knowledge is power and the things I listed give you knowledge, nothing more.

Zenimax wants to get new players and they want to have a huge console playerbase but the current UI is just another point preventing ESO from being at least good.

Stonesthrow

I'm not hardcore… HARDCORE!… so it's fine for me. It is not awful, but it is sparse for sure.

I don't need to know what the other guy in PvP is, he just needs to die. Watch for a few secs and make an educated guess. More fun to figure it out then have a futuristic HUD tell me everything down to his shoe size and sexual preference.

I don't need to know what Bob's health or mana is at, he's a big boy, I'm sure he's watching… and with smart heals you don't need to play whack-a-mole to be a healer. You see a big attack go off, fire a heal or two… not exactly hardcore… HARDCORE!… but effective most of the time.

I like seeing the world. I have add-ons for what I really need. Your example of WoW was so cluttered that it wasn't immersive at all.

That said, I WOULD love to see the best add-ons in the game as optional like the ones for crafting, bags, banks, maps, dps meters, UI…

Rescorla_ESO

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Many of us love the current UI. My opinion is many of the addon's ruin it. I'm not looking to play WOW or SWTOR.

No offense to the person I quoted but it is this type of attitude that ZOS is banking on as being the typical TESO player.

In closed beta there were a lot of us MMO vets begging ZOS to improve the UI so that it would at least meet minimum MMO UI standards met by numerous MMOs. We got shot down by the TES single player purists who did not want an enhanced UI and instead wanted a minimalist UI.

Here is the type of logic we were up against. Nameplates, a standard feature in pretty much every single MMO ever made, were originally part of the game design. They were removed from the closed beta client in late 2013 timeframe. The MMO vets were pretty much united in opposition to this change. The TES purists, some who had apparently never played a MMO, asserted TESO did not need nameplates because Skyrim did not have them. When the MMO vets pointed out to them Skyrim was not a multiplayer online game, the point was lost on them.

The MMO vets also begged for a combat log that displayed the outcome of your attacks as well as attacks made against you but ZOS sided with the TES purists who did not want this information. What a lot of current players probably don't know is that during closed beta the addon API fully supported a player made addon that accurately reported all activities by everyone in your group. This occurred even if the players in your group were not using the addon (ex FTC or CLS). This caused some major drama on the PTS forums because it allowed DPS/damage meter add-ons to display how good or poor your group mates were playing.

Buffs and debuffs also used to display on both you and your target but the TES purists who wanted a minimalist UI got those removed as well

Bottom line is that for every single possible situation during the closed beta. ZOS shot down the wishes of the MMO vet community and sided with the TES purist/minimalist UI wishes. IMO the game has suffered as a result. ZOS could have easily avoided this by including all the UI features that are MMO industry standards now and make them togggable options that players could turn off/disable if they wanted too.

Seraphyel

Stonesthrow wrote: »

That said, I WOULD love to see the best add-ons in the game as optional like the ones for crafting, bags, banks, maps, dps meters, UI…

That's all I want. Optional UI elements instead of 3rd party addons.

KhajitFurTrader

Seraphyel wrote: »

You don't have to theorycraft, but that doesn't turn tables that theorycrafting is a huge part "beyond" the skill system. You just limit yourself when you don't do it - again, it's okay to ignore it, but some want to theorycraft to play on a competitive level. And the game offers you no tools for it although it's totally about theorycrafting.

This game may be "totally about theory crafting" for you (which is fine), but of course it isn't for everyone. You're purposefully mixing subjective and objective levels. Speaking of which...

Seraphyel wrote: »

It's a mess and it's broken. Nobody can deny that. Players like you might enjoy the interface, but it's inexcusable that there is not even an option for all of my points.

Of course I can and I will deny that it's broken, because it isn't for me (cue the inevitable "and for a lot of other people"). So, you don't want to play with my UI, and I don't need to play with yours. That's fine, and that doesn't make any of us more right than the other. The developers followed a certain vision regarding the design of the game's UI, and whether they are willing to compromise that vision in order to placate some of their customers will remain to be seen.

JD2013

So you're ignoring lots of other opinions and talking as though only your opinion is what Zenimax should do?

I'm definitely not against these things as an optional thing, but there are other opinions other than yours, OP.

Rev Rielle

Audigy wrote: »

I like the UI and don't use any addons. To me less is more.

Could not agree more.

Rescorla_ESO

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

You don't have to theorycraft, but that doesn't turn tables that theorycrafting is a huge part "beyond" the skill system. You just limit yourself when you don't do it - again, it's okay to ignore it, but some want to theorycraft to play on a competitive level. And the game offers you no tools for it although it's totally about theorycrafting.

This game may be "totally about theory crafting" for you (which is fine), but of course it isn't for everyone. You're purposefully mixing subjective and objective levels. Speaking of which...

Seraphyel wrote: »

It's a mess and it's broken. Nobody can deny that. Players like you might enjoy the interface, but it's inexcusable that there is not even an option for all of my points.

Of course I can and I will deny that it's broken, because it isn't for me (cue the inevitable "and for a lot of other people"). So, you don't want to play with my UI, and I don't need to play with yours. That's fine, and that doesn't make any of us more right than the other. The developers followed a certain vision regarding the design of the game's UI, and whether they are willing to compromise that vision in order to placate some of their customers will remain to be seen.

How do you know for certain things aren't broken? Let's take debuffs and damage over time abilities as an example. If you use an ability that places a DOT or debuff on your target, how do you know it actually worked?

eventide03b14a_ESO

I will be shocked if this thread actually gets addressed by anyone other than to moderate it. We have been asking them this for some time now and I'm pretty sure the short answer is never. And why should they when they can leave it up to the community to do it unpaid and have the added benefit of not taking responsibility if any part of it doesn't work? I really wish they would improve it but I just don't see it happening.