@ Zenimax: When will you update / improve the ESO User Interface?

daemonios

Nerio wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

I have gotten asked by many people whether or not I will be
Playing on console. My simplest answer is "I wouldn't be able to play the game without add-ons."
I play a healer and frankly cannot possibly heal effectively without being able to see who my shields go onto. I would blame myself when people died because they went into content with too little health because I wouldn't know what their health was. \

It's really easy to see who shields go on because they actually get a shield around them.

Sure. Try managing a 4 or 12-man group and try to see who has shields on in dark scenes or when there's a million light effects from spells. They'd have to make visual cues a LOT less subtle than they currently are to make it work.

[EDIT] I sometimes can't see MY OWN shields depending on the lighting conditions. Thankfully FTC puts a nice bar below my HP bar in a contrasting color, I can see if the shield went off just with my peripheral vision. This is a life saver, considering how many times my skills won't go off if there's too much lag.

Nerio

daemonios wrote: »

Nerio wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

I have gotten asked by many people whether or not I will be
Playing on console. My simplest answer is "I wouldn't be able to play the game without add-ons."
I play a healer and frankly cannot possibly heal effectively without being able to see who my shields go onto. I would blame myself when people died because they went into content with too little health because I wouldn't know what their health was. \

It's really easy to see who shields go on because they actually get a shield around them.

Sure. Try managing a 4 or 12-man group and try to see who has shields on in dark scenes or when there's a million light effects from spells. They'd have to make visual cues a LOT less subtle than they currently are to make it work.

[EDIT] I sometimes can't see MY OWN shields depending on the lighting conditions. Thankfully FTC puts a nice bar below my HP bar in a contrasting color, I can see if the shield went off just with my peripheral vision. This is a life saver, considering how many times my skills won't go off if there's too much lag.

It is certainly more difficult in a 12 man group. Seeing your own shield is really easy though because your hp bar changes color, and the amount of it that changes shows how large your shield is.

Divinius

The current UI is not minimalistic, it's simply missing key features. And I'm not even talking about the numbers and info that some (most) players want to see in the main overlay, I'm talking about the things like what "Advanced Filters" and other similar addons give you. Stuff that there's absolutely no reason at all to not have in the stock game, other than simple developer laziness.

There was a poll on the forums back in December that basically showed that almost 3/4 of the polled playerbase use addons to enhance the game, and would be upset if they couldn't use them. Almost a third of the polled playerbase actually went so far as to say that they would quit the game entirely if they couldn't use addons. I would say that the latter group would indeed consider the current UI to be "broken."

If a full 1/3 of your playerbase would actually refuse to play your game if they couldn't fix the UI themselves, then your UI is probably sorely lacking.

asteldian

Tandor wrote: »

I love the minimalist UI, it has the right feel for an ES game and provides all I need. I'd be happy to change the potion selector but apart from that it's fine.

We've had the discussion before, but the reason a lot of players are opposed even to optional enhancements is because groups might stipulate that you have them turned on. As it is, the default UI is generally accepted and if people want to enhance it with addons they can. I haven't seen the UI and controls for the console versions so can't comment on those.

Thing is that is a naive thought. If people think just because it is not an in game option that others will let them getaway with not having it, they are very wrong.
Hell, even casual guilds that raid expect at least a dps add on to be installed because if you do not know your dos how do you know if it needs improving?
All the current system means is that people have to go through the hassle of installing add ons if they want to do decent content rather than just turn an option on.
Yes, there will be hippy guilds who let you turn up clueless about how effective you are, but they would still be around even if the UI offered the options.

Divinius

asteldian wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I love the minimalist UI, it has the right feel for an ES game and provides all I need. I'd be happy to change the potion selector but apart from that it's fine.

We've had the discussion before, but the reason a lot of players are opposed even to optional enhancements is because groups might stipulate that you have them turned on. As it is, the default UI is generally accepted and if people want to enhance it with addons they can. I haven't seen the UI and controls for the console versions so can't comment on those.

Thing is that is a naive thought. If people think just because it is not an in game option that others will let them getaway with not having it, they are very wrong.
Hell, even casual guilds that raid expect at least a dps add on to be installed because if you do not know your dos how do you know if it needs improving?
All the current system means is that people have to go through the hassle of installing add ons if they want to do decent content rather than just turn an option on.
Yes, there will be hippy guilds who let you turn up clueless about how effective you are, but they would still be around even if the UI offered the options.

This, exactly. The argument of "but if it's an game option, other people will force you to use it" is completely moot, since all these things are already an option that people can force you to use. It's just way more of a pain in the butt for someone to download, install, and configure an addon, than to simply turn on a setting when requested to, and tuning it off when done.

So "the reason a lot of players are opposed to even optional enhancements" is a completely invalid reason.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Divinius wrote: »

The current UI is not minimalistic, it's simply missing key features. And I'm not even talking about the numbers and info that some (most) players want to see in the main overlay, I'm talking about the things like what "Advanced Filters" and other similar addons give you. Stuff that there's absolutely no reason at all to not have in the stock game, other than simple developer laziness.

There was a poll on the forums back in December that basically showed that almost 3/4 of the polled playerbase use addons to enhance the game, and would be upset if they couldn't use them. Almost a third of the polled playerbase actually went so far as to say that they would quit the game entirely if they couldn't use addons. I would say that the latter group would indeed consider the current UI to be "broken."

If a full 1/3 of your playerbase would actually refuse to play your game if they couldn't fix the UI themselves, then your UI is probably sorely lacking.

I wouldn't classify it as broken per se, just incomplete. But I agree that it really needs these features. The game only supports so many resources to addons and if you run too many you start to get UI issues.

Divinius wrote: »

asteldian wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I love the minimalist UI, it has the right feel for an ES game and provides all I need. I'd be happy to change the potion selector but apart from that it's fine.

We've had the discussion before, but the reason a lot of players are opposed even to optional enhancements is because groups might stipulate that you have them turned on. As it is, the default UI is generally accepted and if people want to enhance it with addons they can. I haven't seen the UI and controls for the console versions so can't comment on those.

Thing is that is a naive thought. If people think just because it is not an in game option that others will let them getaway with not having it, they are very wrong.
Hell, even casual guilds that raid expect at least a dps add on to be installed because if you do not know your dos how do you know if it needs improving?
All the current system means is that people have to go through the hassle of installing add ons if they want to do decent content rather than just turn an option on.
Yes, there will be hippy guilds who let you turn up clueless about how effective you are, but they would still be around even if the UI offered the options.

This, exactly. The argument of "but if it's an game option, other people will force you to use it" is completely moot, since all these things are already an option that people can force you to use. It's just way more of a pain in the butt for someone to download, install, and configure an addon, than to simply turn on a setting when requested to, and tuning it off when done.

So "the reason a lot of players are opposed to even optional enhancements" is a completely invalid reason.

QTF amen.

Ad.Absurdum

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

FIX UI, it's not that hard.

Apparently it is, to them.

I have at least some basic skills in the field, and I have to turn a blind eye towards the bad UI design in ESO when I play. I'm not talking about the combat UI. It's all the rest that annoys me: the inventory, banks, guild stores, mail, crafting screens. I stopped complaining about it months ago. My attempts at constructive feedback have been for nothing. I suspect they have put the UI issues on lowest priority and nobody is working on it. I can't believe a real person doing real work would succeed in doing so little for so long.

^this. i am missing craftstore badly

Gix

daemonios wrote: »

People who are afraid of l33t players knowing your DPS? Guess what - if you try to join a l33t group you'll be asked to post these numbers yourself. For some content, at the very least they'll ask you to post the achievement to prove you've already completed it. Solution? Comply if you want to play in those groups, or find other more casual groups if you don't.

Last time I checked, the guild I'm in has a no *** policy: You get kicked out of the group if you broadcast your DPS because, frankly, no one gives a rats !@#$. Those who broadcast their DPS are people who are more inclined to be blinded by it and only focus on that rather than actually fighting properly. If it was an automated process (like - allowing a inspect feature) then that opens up a whole can of worms and people are going to start stressing out on their own and subconsciously get tunnel vision. It's performance poison.

If you wanted to do research, yeah... getting the info is fine. Here's the thing, though: you don't need it.

Learn to differentiate what you want and what you need and then deal with it.

Gix

DELETE

Tonnopesce

daemonios wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Op's:
The ui suck and this is the reason why i suck when i get defeated (by other players ) for sure the only reason is cuz my opponent have better add-ons!

Nothing against an actually official option to have what you ask on screen but it seems that lazymax devs dont want to add it.

Imo numbers distract me and i cannot focus on the battle, but i still use add-ons for things not included on your list and with add ons i can customize my game experience 360° so this sistem makes evryone happy, the only thing it needs is an official support for the people who made the most popular ones and give this people a reason to continue to work on them.

I agree that combat numbers (actual DPS, HPS, etc.) probably shouldn't be in the UI. Same for Skyshards and Lorebooks. But then why does ZOS allow add-ons to go get those numbers from the game or display random pointers on the map? People who are afraid of l33t players knowing your DPS? Guess what - if you try to join a l33t group you'll be asked to post these numbers yourself. For some content, at the very least they'll ask you to post the achievement to prove you've already completed it. Solution? Comply if you want to play in those groups, or find other more casual groups if you don't.

On the other hand, other combat statistics SHOULD be added to the UI. I can't know all of my attributes and resistances from the character sheet, for instance. I can't tell which buffs or debuffs are on me or other players - and people, if anyone says there are visual cues again, I think I'm going postal; many visual cues were removed or are so minimal or similar to other effects that it's impossible to get that information from looking at the characters. It was a good idea, badly executed.

And then there are UI issues that have nothing to do with min-maxing or competitiveness. Proper guild store search, proper inventory categorization, proper trait and recipe information... These are about letting you play ESO instead of playing Inventory Manager Online.

As for skyshards and lorebooks is basically cheating in a tollerable way since it afflict only your experience, when the l33t guilds (translate for this plz) ask in zone chat the archivements and dps i simply copy paste the archivement posted by the one who search and give him a casual dps number accettabe (by class , stamina\magika, weapon) but totally random and till now they never notice that i lie.

My point is that evry player want something different in his pesonal UI and if the game where ui locked in a mmo way i would never have played the game.
With this sistem i can customize all my ui and i personally like it.
But if zos want to go on with this sistem, they have to give someting to the people who WORK for them

WraithAzraiel

They left the UI bare bones as possible to please the immersion hounds and left the API open for mod'ers to make it into something that resembles an actual MMO.

They'll probably do little tweaks here and there but nothing substantial.

They don't need to, all the Add-on authors have done and are doing it for them.

They get free work.

Rescorla_ESO

Gix wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

People who are afraid of l33t players knowing your DPS? Guess what - if you try to join a l33t group you'll be asked to post these numbers yourself. For some content, at the very least they'll ask you to post the achievement to prove you've already completed it. Solution? Comply if you want to play in those groups, or find other more casual groups if you don't.

Last time I checked, the guild I'm in has a no *** policy: You get kicked out of the group if you broadcast your DPS because, frankly, no one gives a rats !@#$. Those who broadcast their DPS are people who are more inclined to be blinded by it and only focus on that rather than actually fighting properly. If it was an automated process (like - allowing a inspect feature) then that opens up a whole can of worms and people are going to start stressing out on their own and subconsciously get tunnel vision. It's performance poison.

If you wanted to do research, yeah... getting the info is fine. Here's the thing, though: you don't need it.

Learn to differentiate what you want and what you need and then deal with it.

Expecting your guildmates on an endgame raid to put in a level of effort that contributes to the raid's success doesn't make someone a butthole, it makes them a good teammate. If everyone on a raid needs to output 10k DPS in order to defeat a tough raid boss and you can only pump out 5K because you refuse to use addons that help you play smarter, then what gives you the right to waste everyone else's time because you aren't willing to try and improve your gameplay?

The anti-addon crowd has been making this same argument going well back into closed beta. If you want to play TESO without addons in blissful ignorance of what is actually going on in the game then you have that right as long as it doesn't impede on my gameplay.

Kromus

Releasing an mmo title in 2014. without:

- lag counter (probably so we don't see state of server right away)
- reply to mail
- copy/paste in chat window

- what item you sold at store
- what you looted with auto-loot on
- descriptive tooltip for ALL effects you can see at character sheet and not only few
- ...
+ weapon charge alert (game specific)

...have nothing to do with immersion but plain don't-know/don't-care, at least.

daemonios

Gix wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

People who are afraid of l33t players knowing your DPS? Guess what - if you try to join a l33t group you'll be asked to post these numbers yourself. For some content, at the very least they'll ask you to post the achievement to prove you've already completed it. Solution? Comply if you want to play in those groups, or find other more casual groups if you don't.

Last time I checked, the guild I'm in has a no *** policy: You get kicked out of the group if you broadcast your DPS because, frankly, no one gives a rats !@#$. Those who broadcast their DPS are people who are more inclined to be blinded by it and only focus on that rather than actually fighting properly. If it was an automated process (like - allowing a inspect feature) then that opens up a whole can of worms and people are going to start stressing out on their own and subconsciously get tunnel vision. It's performance poison.

If you wanted to do research, yeah... getting the info is fine. Here's the thing, though: you don't need it.

Learn to differentiate what you want and what you need and then deal with it.

That's all fine and dandy, but why shouldn't others have the option to improve their gameplay by studying the outcome of their skill rotations?

I have to say I sympathize with people who ask for DPS numbers for certain content. I've tried to farm CoA vet a number of times and had to quit mid-way because the party wasn't up to the challenge. Mind you, I don't rage quit, I leave when we as a group conclude we're not going to make it.

I don't mind playing with weaker players (and I'm not a top player myself) and I often volunteer tips to get the party to the end of the dungeon. I've done vet dungeons with many many first-timers and explained the mechanics before each boss. But I have plenty of time to play and I'm in no rush to get anywhere. Some people don't have as much time, or really want to farm a given drop, which implies clearing the content quickly.

Anyway, you're deliberately focusing on DPS-meters when I and others have pointed out different areas where the default UI is severely lacking.

Seraphyel

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

Of course I can and I will deny that it's broken, because it isn't for me (cue the inevitable "and for a lot of other people"). So, you don't want to play with my UI, and I don't need to play with yours. That's fine, and that doesn't make any of us more right than the other. The developers followed a certain vision regarding the design of the game's UI, and whether they are willing to compromise that vision in order to placate some of their customers will remain to be seen.

You don't get it.

It doesn't matter if YOU don't want to play with my UI because there is no "my UI" in ESO. I must play with YOUR UI. That's the issue. It's totally okay if you don't want to use an UI like I would, but it's about the missing option to have this UI without using addons.

Rook_Master

Inevitably, the people making reasonable arguments for basic quality-of-life improvements to the UI get drowned out by the people crying for "immersion."

News Flash: We are not arguing for more flashy numbers on screen. We want basic improvements that simply improve the game, like 'Advanced Filters' or 'Advanced Guild Store.'

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Seraphyel

Nerio wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

I have gotten asked by many people whether or not I will be
Playing on console. My simplest answer is "I wouldn't be able to play the game without add-ons."
I play a healer and frankly cannot possibly heal effectively without being able to see who my shields go onto. I would blame myself when people died because they went into content with too little health because I wouldn't know what their health was. \

It's really easy to see who shields go on because they actually get a shield around them.

Yeah, nice when you have ++++ 10 players around you.

BigM wrote: »

I find this funny, if they made a UI people would complain they want it changed this way or that way. With the ability to make addons so you can pick how the different addons work for you. Oh and if you will say Authors of these addons don't like to do it you are wrong.

ZoS can't win no matter what they do. But in my opinion keep it like it is and let addon authors do their thing.

You realize there must be addon authors? And they decreased since launch, many addons are not even supported anymore. It's not the job of the playerbase to make a good UI for an MMORPG that costed over $100 million.

Gix wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

How do some of you people play without seeing half of the information that should be provided to the players?

And they'll never fix it, because modders to it for free (thank god).

I use my eyes and I make judgement based on what I see. I don't need some stinking UI overlay to tell me that some dude in heavy armor charging me with a two-handed sword wants me dead.

I also use my ears.

There's a few things I'd improve in the UI but, for the most part (when it comes to displaying information), most of the things that people are asking for are redundant.

Excuse me, but you can't use your eyes or your ears to know if the DoT or debuff worked. As I said, the problem starts when you are applying more than one DoT. As a DK I have 4 Fire-DoTs but I only see ONE, when the enemy is burning. That's everything but fine.

Seraphyel

Rook_Master wrote: »

Inevitably, the people making reasonable arguments for basic quality-of-life improvements to the UI get drowned out by the people crying for "immersion."

News Flash: We are not arguing for more flashy numbers on screen. We want basic improvements that simply improve the game, like 'Advanced Filters' or 'Advanced Guild Store.'

This.

The game is missing some basic UI elements. Nobody is forced to use them but they shouldn't be there at least.

Gix

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

People who are afraid of l33t players knowing your DPS? Guess what - if you try to join a l33t group you'll be asked to post these numbers yourself. For some content, at the very least they'll ask you to post the achievement to prove you've already completed it. Solution? Comply if you want to play in those groups, or find other more casual groups if you don't.

Last time I checked, the guild I'm in has a no *** policy: You get kicked out of the group if you broadcast your DPS because, frankly, no one gives a rats !@#$. Those who broadcast their DPS are people who are more inclined to be blinded by it and only focus on that rather than actually fighting properly. If it was an automated process (like - allowing a inspect feature) then that opens up a whole can of worms and people are going to start stressing out on their own and subconsciously get tunnel vision. It's performance poison.

If you wanted to do research, yeah... getting the info is fine. Here's the thing, though: you don't need it.

Learn to differentiate what you want and what you need and then deal with it.

Expecting your guildmates on an endgame raid to put in a level of effort that contributes to the raid's success doesn't make someone a butthole, it makes them a good teammate. If everyone on a raid needs to output 10k DPS in order to defeat a tough raid boss and you can only pump out 5K because you refuse to use addons that help you play smarter, then what gives you the right to waste everyone else's time because you aren't willing to try and improve your gameplay?

The anti-addon crowd has been making this same argument going well back into closed beta. If you want to play TESO without addons in blissful ignorance of what is actually going on in the game then you have that right as long as it doesn't impede on my gameplay.

The only one wasting people's time is the one too busy boosting his or her DPS to dodge a puddle on the ground. I already explained why some of us consider addons to be performance poison. Some of us value skill over a number. A dead DPS is a bad DPS.

If you're in a guild that demands its players to constantly watch how big their numbers are and if you also need a program to tell you how to play, by all means.

Some of us don't need a DPS meter to know that they're not killing monsters fast enough. They have common sense.

"addons that help you play smarter" addons can help short-term, but I will argue that they are not needed and often detrimental in the long-term.

daemonios wrote: »

Anyway, you're deliberately focusing on DPS-meters when I and others have pointed out different areas where the default UI is severely lacking.

Because I was replying to a character-inspect-stats specific comment.

daemonios wrote: »

- Properly categorized inventories (i.e. you can go through heavy/medium/light armour in the armour tab, or woodworking/clothing/blacksmithing/etc. in the materials tab);
- Proper guild store search (the current add-ons are a hack at best and require you to retrieve ALL the items in the guild store each time to give accurate results);
- Proper information about known traits/styles/recipes without having to go to a crafting station.

While these would be nice improvements, I don't believe this is the kind of stuff people are talking about when people claim that the UI is broken or unusable.

Personally I'd rather have icons displaying whenever or not the armour is heavy/medium/light in the current Armour tab rather than just segregating them into more tabs... otherwise you're just shuffling through more and more [empty] tabs.

Seraphyel wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

How do some of you people play without seeing half of the information that should be provided to the players?

And they'll never fix it, because modders to it for free (thank god).

I use my eyes and I make judgement based on what I see. I don't need some stinking UI overlay to tell me that some dude in heavy armor charging me with a two-handed sword wants me dead.

I also use my ears.

There's a few things I'd improve in the UI but, for the most part (when it comes to displaying information), most of the things that people are asking for are redundant.

Excuse me, but you can't use your eyes or your ears to know if the DoT or debuff worked. As I said, the problem starts when you are applying more than one DoT. As a DK I have 4 Fire-DoTs but I only see ONE, when the enemy is burning. That's everything but fine.

Believe what you want.

Rook_Master wrote: »

Inevitably, the people making reasonable arguments for basic quality-of-life improvements to the UI get drowned out by the people crying for "immersion."

News Flash: We are not arguing for more flashy numbers on screen. We want basic improvements that simply improve the game, like 'Advanced Filters' or 'Advanced Guild Store.'

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

First of all, not all of you addon-addicts are making "reasonable arguments". Some of you want to see target character class, party stamina, magicka, DPS and so on. Just like those who are against the idea of these "reasonable UI improvements" aren't only crying over immersion.

How about the ability to !@#$ing see the game screen for once? How about a game where a game designer can just focus on making a game without them believing that everyone's playing with an excel sheet on their screen?

Look at what happened with WoW and deadly boss mods. Blizzard had to build their own version of it in the game because they were progressively designing content with the mod in mind. The game now practically plays by itself.

That's where people disagree.

Quality of life Advanced filters? I don't think anyone is arguing against that.

Divinius

Oh, my god people...

Once again, a thread requesting that ZOS make slight improvements to their UI degrades into the anti-addon crowd ranting that everything is fine and nothing needs to change, and some of the pro-addon crowd claiming they "need" to have DPS meters and other things to be able to play at all.

Contrary to this thread, there IS a happy-medium here!

No reasonable person would expect addons like "Skyshards" and "Lorebooks" to be added to the stock game. They go against the theme of the game itself. Those are great examples of things that are perfect as addons, but shouldn't be built into the game.

No reasonable person would expect things like combat logs to be forced on the users. Nor would they expect the main UI display to have way more "stuff" everywhere. And while the super-elite may disagree, I think most players would be opposed to anything that let players view other player's DPS info (nothing good comes of that).

That said, it is NOT unreasonable to make requests that the devs add things like a simple self-only combat log as OPTIONS for people that may want to see and use that info to improve their own character. Or OPTIONS for hiding some elements of the display that the super-minimalist people want (until the last update, you actually needed an addon if you did NOT want to see the compass or quest markers).

And it is certainly not unreasonable to expect that some QoL features (like what's provided by the "Advanced Filters" or "No, Thank you" addons) that would not in any way detract from the game's minimalistic UI theme, be added into the game to make simple things like inventory management or searching guild stores more streamlined, and remove common other UI annoyances.

Contrary to what the anti-addon crowd thinks, not all addons are "tools for cheaters" or "UI hogging monstrosities"... Many (I'd even argue "most") of them are simply designed to give the player options or functionality that they SHOULD have by default in any decently made UI, without adding anything that "clutters" the UI in any way.

Gix

@Divinius well said.

Divinius wrote: »

Contrary to what the anti-addon crowd thinks, not all addons are "tools for cheaters" or "UI hogging monstrosities"... Many (I'd even argue "most") of them are simply designed to give the player options or functionality that they SHOULD have by default in any decently made UI, without adding anything that "clutters" the UI in any way.

I'm quoting this paragraph because this is where it's gets gray. I'm pretty sure those who want DPS meters and all that stuff also believe that it's functionality that the should have by default. That's where the arguments of mods/no-mods came from.

I'm also trying really hard to think of any recent game I've played that had a superior UI that would warrant the reasonable changes to be considered "should have been by default". I'm all for improving the game's UI but is it really the monstrosity that most people claim it is?

daemonios

Gix wrote: »

I'm all for improving the game's UI but is it really the monstrosity that most people claim it is?

Let me sum up some of the most glaring examples:

- Too few categories in inventory/bank (try finding that one trait stone or ingredient whose name you don't quite remember among all the clothing/woodworking/blacksmithing/provisioning/enchanting/alchemy materials);
- No information on which of your items has sold, or in which guild store (not a game-breaker, but still... why?);
- Impossible to reply directly to a mail from another player - you have to type his character or @ name, and might conceivably get it wrong;
- Lack of text search in guild stores (certain searches may return hundreds of results spanning several pages; for instance, good luck finding a green recipe by name using the standard UI);
- No cross-guild store search, search options not always saved between searches (forces you to select your search criteria over and over again when switching guild stores);
- Items reference stats that are nowhere to be found on the character sheet (e.g. elemental resistances);
- No option to prevent deconstruction of certain items, made worse by the fact that you can deconstruct items stored in the bank;
- No indication regarding known/unknown traits, which makes managing your researches a pain;
- Visual/audio cues for certain abilities/buffs easily missed depending on conditions (my crystal frags proc sometimes doesn't make the usual sound, and I can't always be looking at my hands to check whether they're glowing; besides, the glow can be missed if there are a lot of effects on screen);
- ...

Note that most of the things mentioned above have NO INFLUENCE WHATSOEVER IN IMMERSION, since they would only appear when you have a menu open (inventory, mail, guild store).

Attorneyatlawl

Troneon wrote: »

The UI is worse than some games that are over 10 years old.

They will never update it because that would require a large amount of coding, time, resources and costs.

They will rely on player created addons to keep their crap UI system going.

If it was not for the player created addons most of the community would of stopped playing a long long time ago.

Probably true. I couldn't imagine trying to play ESO on a console being limited to the default UI. It would be like wearing a blindfold, then drugging yourself so you were sloppy and uncoordinated to boot . While the PC version has been able to be made usable by addons from third-party community members taking their time and volunteering it freely (/salute to those who have the time to do so in), the consoles won't have that option. It's already a big problem on the PC version of ESO to not have most essential and industry-standard functionality options by default, but many people go grab addons somewhat begrudgingly in some cases and ignore it. Those same guys had they chosen the console versions instead? Well, you know the South Park ski instructor telling you "You're gonna have a bad time." Yeah.

Attorneyatlawl

Gix wrote: »

@Divinius well said.

Divinius wrote: »

Contrary to what the anti-addon crowd thinks, not all addons are "tools for cheaters" or "UI hogging monstrosities"... Many (I'd even argue "most") of them are simply designed to give the player options or functionality that they SHOULD have by default in any decently made UI, without adding anything that "clutters" the UI in any way.

I'm quoting this paragraph because this is where it's gets gray. I'm pretty sure those who want DPS meters and all that stuff also believe that it's functionality that the should have by default. That's where the arguments of mods/no-mods came from.

I'm also trying really hard to think of any recent game I've played that had a superior UI that would warrant the reasonable changes to be considered "should have been by default". I'm all for improving the game's UI but is it really the monstrosity that most people claim it is?

Rift in 2010, and Warhammer Online in 2008, are two easy examples I can think of off the top of my head that I've played .

Seraphyel

Gix wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

How do some of you people play without seeing half of the information that should be provided to the players?

And they'll never fix it, because modders to it for free (thank god).

I use my eyes and I make judgement based on what I see. I don't need some stinking UI overlay to tell me that some dude in heavy armor charging me with a two-handed sword wants me dead.

I also use my ears.

There's a few things I'd improve in the UI but, for the most part (when it comes to displaying information), most of the things that people are asking for are redundant.

Excuse me, but you can't use your eyes or your ears to know if the DoT or debuff worked. As I said, the problem starts when you are applying more than one DoT. As a DK I have 4 Fire-DoTs but I only see ONE, when the enemy is burning. That's everything but fine.

Believe what you want.

I believe in facts. And you can't claim that you know if 1, 2, 3 or all of your 4 DoTs are on the target. You simply can't know it with the standard UI. It's impossible.

Nobody here is talking about a mandatory DPS meter or something like that. There must be some QoL changes, e.g. a simple buff / debuff overview in the normal interface outside of the character window (even in the character window not every buff is displayed), the option to show damage / healing numbers, a better group interface so that I can see how much Magicka / Stamina my mates have left, any kinds of UI improvements for the horrible Guild Store interface etc.

If console version is released without those features, I promise you it will fail. ESO is not Skyrim Online and that's exactly why you need an MMORPG and no ES interface especially when there is no 3rd party support on consoles.

Attorneyatlawl

Seraphyel wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

How do some of you people play without seeing half of the information that should be provided to the players?

And they'll never fix it, because modders to it for free (thank god).

I use my eyes and I make judgement based on what I see. I don't need some stinking UI overlay to tell me that some dude in heavy armor charging me with a two-handed sword wants me dead.

I also use my ears.

There's a few things I'd improve in the UI but, for the most part (when it comes to displaying information), most of the things that people are asking for are redundant.

Excuse me, but you can't use your eyes or your ears to know if the DoT or debuff worked. As I said, the problem starts when you are applying more than one DoT. As a DK I have 4 Fire-DoTs but I only see ONE, when the enemy is burning. That's everything but fine.

Believe what you want.

I believe in facts. And you can't claim that you know if 1, 2, 3 or all of your 4 DoTs are on the target. You simply can't know it with the standard UI. It's impossible.

Nobody here is talking about a mandatory DPS meter or something like that. There must be some QoL changes, e.g. a simple buff / debuff overview in the normal interface outside of the character window (even in the character window not every buff is displayed), the option to show damage / healing numbers, a better group interface so that I can see how much Magicka / Stamina my mates have left, any kinds of UI improvements for the horrible Guild Store interface etc.

If console version is released without those features, I promise you it will fail. ESO is not Skyrim Online and that's exactly why you need an MMORPG and no ES interface especially when there is no 3rd party support on consoles.

Imagine trying to go into Trials with a full raid group on the consoles... *shudder*. Execute phase? What's that?

I'd be happy if they updated and re-enabled the UI stuff they had in beta, then added some QoL features (like a reply button to mail) by default. We used to have a minimap, nameplates, scrolling combat text, a combat log, the ability to track multiple quests at once, and more during the beta test, but they were crippled and then disabled, one by one as the prelaunch "immersion" crowd insisted they shouldn't exist in the game because options are bad. And to this day we still don't even have an API function for addons to let us track our buffs/debuffs (existing addons simply use timers to "guess" based on having hit a key to cast one, and don't have any actual info). Heck, you need an addon to simply see how much health you have left on your health bar or an enemies', or your magicka/stamina. You used to have an in-game option for those too, by the way.

asteldian

I look forward to seeing build guides for console. 'This build might be doing decent DPS, I don't know, but we did complete the dungeon! On the other hand, Barry's build seemed to be doing ok too....'
I wonder how many anti add on players that do end game content rely on other people's builds in order to assume they are carrying their weight?
I think Console gamers will be heavily dependent on PC players and their guides.

Seraphyel

asteldian wrote: »

I look forward to seeing build guides for console. 'This build might be doing decent DPS, I don't know, but we did complete the dungeon! On the other hand, Barry's build seemed to be doing ok too....'
I wonder how many anti add on players that do end game content rely on other people's builds in order to assume they are carrying their weight?
I think Console gamers will be heavily dependent on PC players and their guides.

That's it.

Most console players will (or better must) rely on PC players and their use of 3rd party addons.

Unfortunately addon naysayers will never confess that although it's the truth.

Seraphyel

Divinius wrote: »

The current UI is not minimalistic, it's simply missing key features.

Everybody needs to realize that. I really hope the console UI will have at least Foundry Tactical Combat as a standard, without it... nope, nope, nope.

We don't want GOD-MODE addons, we want simple key features.

Potenza

Here's two things...

Every MMO I have ever played included a mini-map as part of the UI. You could expand it or shut it off if you did not want it.
Why not at here?

Character sheet should be able to be opened with attribute sheet and back pack so you can make gear changes and see the stat changes first hand without having to click in and out of screens.