Immortal guards are getting REALLY annoying.

Cody

Panda244 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

farrier_ESO wrote: »

There's a way to kill guards. Just reverse-pickpocket a grenade. You get an achievement "exploding pants", too.

Wait, that was another game.

that was hilarious:) I remember that.

@Cody YOU'RE ALIVE!?!?!

I had some issues with my forum account not letting me log in.

now it suddenly let me do it. I am just going with it.

LameoveR

Always lol when see some guy trying to kill guards or escape from them
It's really cool.

Majic

LameoveR wrote: »

Always lol when see some guy trying to kill guards or escape from them
It's really cool.

The game really should have an /eatpopcorn emote just for situations like these.

C0pp3rhead

I know it's bad form to leave a reply without reading through the entire thread, but I'mma throw in my 2cents.

I run around with a 5k-10k bounty at all times.
I haven't died to a guard since the first few days of 1.6.

You have fences who will buy your stolen stuff in the thieve's dens. There are also merchants who can repair your gear. The moneylenders can help you bank anything that you need to deconstruct or research later. They can also hold your gold so the guards don't snag it. If you're smart about sneaking and the routes you take around town, the guards are easy to avoid.

Good thieves are supposed to be smart, but more importantly cautious. You'll figure it out.

The_Death_Princess

Xjcon wrote: »

You could always make a cardboard sign and stand near the vendors......

That one made me rofl

'This one will purr for bounty'

farrier_ESO

Majic wrote: »

LameoveR wrote: »

Always lol when see some guy trying to kill guards or escape from them
It's really cool.

The game really should have an /eatpopcorn emote just for situations like these.

I use sitchair, but yeah. That would be awesome.

Lylith

don't try and kill them, RUN. get them to chase you out of their zones, turn around and hit them once and they'll run back and you'll get an achievement.

this was an accidental discovery.

as was killing a civilian who got in the middle of a fight with a bandit; suddenly i'm a fugitive and the guards will kill me on sight! (the bounty was only 666g or so, initially)

good times.

WhitePawPrints

I honestly cannot say why there is so much opposition to having guards mortal. No one is saying to have guards ignore you, or be easy to kill. They are triple elite guards, and even if they were not immortal, they would be very difficult to kill; practically impossible if you run into more than one of them. Especially for when near a door, there is no option other than to wait and die. I'd love to at least fight to the death with a guard rather than having an instant death. Lower levels will already have instant deaths due to the high level of the guards. WoW has guards that are very high level, over level cap actually, to prevent the problem but they are still mortal.

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

The moneylenders can help you bank anything that you need to deconstruct or research later. They can also hold your gold so the guards don't snag it. If you're smart about sneaking and the routes you take around town, the guards are easy to avoid.

Good thieves are supposed to be smart, but more importantly cautious. You'll figure it out.

Storing gold in the bank is the best way to handle the loss in gold. However, I think the bigger issue is the fact that there is an immediate death sentence. It's as bad as having no consequence whatsoever, which is what the opposition is assuming the original poster wants.

Gidorick wrote: »

I don't mind a NEAR impossible challenge... I mind an impossible challenge.

Zimnel

Majic wrote: »

LameoveR wrote: »

Always lol when see some guy trying to kill guards or escape from them
It's really cool.

The game really should have an /eatpopcorn emote just for situations like these.

This XD
Want to be a criminal? Face consequences! I still hear the ordinators in Morrowind...
"We're watching you, scum!"

If you have 10k bounty don't expect to go to a town freely. You have to sneak off towns and find a fence in a non public place. Learn to sneak properly and by Vivec's sake, level up your alchemy.

If guards were killable, every uber veteran 14 in undaunted set could kill them, even if they are criminals. And that sir, that is not justice.

shalissareb17_ESO

I absolutely love this system personally. Don't want to aggro guards? Stop, watch, and sneak.

Majic

What If Guard Was One Of Us

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

I honestly cannot say why there is so much opposition to having guards mortal. No one is saying to have guards ignore you, or be easy to kill. They are triple elite guards, and even if they were not immortal, they would be very difficult to kill; practically impossible if you run into more than one of them.

For the record, I don't like mechanics that allow anything invincible to attack players.

However, if guards can be killed, they will be killed. No matter how tough they are, if they are killable, players will find ways to kill them and exploit the hell out of it.

The predictable result is roving bands of players laying waste to anything and everything in their path, or simply VR14 players solo-nuking the starter zones, for that matter, and relentless mass-murders and pillaging of the cities.

ZOS apparently doesn't want that happening, for some odd reason, so here we are.

demonaffinity

Guards should be difficult to kill, but possible to kill none the less. Having them immortal makes absolutely no sense.

Lava_Croft

Not being able to kill guards means guards are actually something you should fear. This is one of the core concepts of Thief and therefore mandatory for a good stealth experience.

Just be a better thief!

LMar

I used to hear the guards saying "I am a god, it is my duty to be suspicious" or something like that when in reality they were saying "I am a guard.. etc"

I guess now they are gods :P

WhitePawPrints

Majic wrote: »

What If Guard Was One Of Us

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

I honestly cannot say why there is so much opposition to having guards mortal. No one is saying to have guards ignore you, or be easy to kill. They are triple elite guards, and even if they were not immortal, they would be very difficult to kill; practically impossible if you run into more than one of them.

For the record, I don't like mechanics that allow anything invincible to attack players.

However, if guards can be killed, they will be killed. No matter how tough they are, if they are killable, players will find ways to kill them and exploit the hell out of it.

The predictable result is roving bands of players laying waste to anything and everything in their path, or simply VR14 players solo-nuking the starter zones, for that matter, and relentless mass-murders and pillaging of the cities.

ZOS apparently doesn't want that happening, for some odd reason, so here we are.

Solo VR14, easy. Make the guards harder. I'm VR11, and have built to solo against single opponents. Regular elites still take a while to kill, let alone triple elites. Plus, they're all death knights. When I was last on, Death Knights were pretty damn close to being immortal anyway.

Groups of players going through cities and mass murdering? An obvious outcome. It has been done before, and has been countered with opposing players supporting guards. Currently we don't have player to player combat within the same faction, but solution would be to not have loot on dead NPC's temporarily. In essence, remove the reason for possible exploitation: remove the income that would be possible. I think anyone would be much more satisfied on missing out an extra hundred gold here and there, rather than being trapped with an immortal hostile NPC.

If I fall down a ravine and break my leg, I'd rather do everything I can to climb back up that ravine. Waiting around to die is not my way. If I walk into a building where there happens to be a guard, I'd rather at least fight and try to escape rather than wait around and die.

Sevalaricgirl

The guards should not be immortal. They should be tough but not immortal. You should be able to kill guards, sneak away and wait for your bounty to cool down, but you should have to be very powerful to do it. Immersion means everyone can die including you.

mad.ferretb16_ESO

I personally think the chain is a bit much. I did have an issue when questing in a dungeon and racked up a fair bit of bounty (which didn't show up) I then strolled into town and got yanked and ganked. Which I thought was a bit much.

All in all though I think it's really quite well done and way better and more fun than I thought.

Gidorick

I suggested this in another thread about this very thing.

ONE guard shouldn't be unkillable but THE guard should be.

I made a post about this here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/158589/a-guard-shouldnt-be-invincible-but-the-guard-should-be?new=1

pugyourself

SG_Celerrimus wrote: »

So, I did some thievery and botched it a bunch of times and landed myself with a 10k bounty. I currently have 0 gold. I am trying to find a Daedra heart in a container in a town, like the old days, but every time I try and walk around to get from house to house to look, I get swarmed by 1-3 guards, and I have no chance of fighting back because they are GODS (WHYY???) and they constantly chain pull me and stun me whenever I try to run away, so my only real option is to just stand there and die.

Please for the love of god, make guards killable, this just isn't fun after a while.

You had to have killed people for a bounty that large. Bounty decays even when you aren't logged in. Go outside for a few days and come back to a bounty free character.

Vahrokh

zeuseason wrote: »

I'm loving all the guard complaint threads popping up. Players that want to go on crime sprees and never face the consequences. Guards are there for a reason, they are tough for a reason, they have the abilities that they do for a reason. It's your own fault for your own frustration caused by getting caught.

Actually, ESO guards should be implemented in real life.

Arezius

It's like asking for Concord to be less OP in EVE Online... they're going to kill you, deal with it.
And you know what ? Gankers love that

And to stay in the Elder Scrolls series, I remember how annoyed I was by guards in Oblivion at low level because they looked god-like, chasing me around and killing me everytime... But that's how justice works.

Don't forget it's an MMO. What would happen if the guards could be killed ? People would simply come in groups and kill them over and over, because it's a game, and people want to do whatever the hell they want And especially what they can't do IRL.
Would it be fun if the guard could be killed over and over like that ? and you were the one god-like ? Maybe funny for a kid, and for a couple of hours, but after that ? I don't think so.

The real fun comes from having something very hard in front of you, and trying to escape it, or simply don't get caught by it.

Guards should be killable in single player games, unkillable in MMOs.

OR an MMO with killable guards will be doomed to remain an open PVP game only, making all PVE players leave the game. That's why guards can be killed in Aion for example, because there's a high PVP factor in it, and it's great, but definitely not for everybody, and not for the ESO players.
That's why some people like Deltia think the open-pvp part of the justice system should never happen.

Anyway. Killable guards would break the game and ruin the justice system. We need this justice side in front of us for the thievery/crime to be interesting.

ItsGlaive

It is what it is. Personally I've not problem with their immortality. And there are bigger fish to fry. Simply don't be as careless, make an effort not to get caught, problem solved.

BlackEar

You should be able to kill them in a group.

I know they are the only enforcing force at the moment, but when banding together 10-12 people you should be able to take one guard down.

Make it an achievement! It is too good an opportunity to pass up!

Gidorick

zeuseason wrote: »

I'm loving all the guard complaint threads popping up. Players that want to go on crime sprees and never face the consequences. Guards are there for a reason, they are tough for a reason, they have the abilities that they do for a reason. It's your own fault for your own frustration caused by getting caught.

Guards are tough... tough would be ok. Tough would be awesome! They are invincible... that's not tough. That's invincible.

Seth_Black

It's called 'CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR ACTIONS'

If you STEAL ...and you're so bad in doing it without using any brain -> you get caught!
(wonder why Thieves Guild won't take you in?)

If you KILL ...and you're so bad in doing it without any finesse or good planning -> you get caught/killed
(and wonder why Night Mother doesn't find you worthy to join Dark Brotherhood?)

Sucks to be you then ...since you can't quicksave before doing something completely stupid
(or be smart for a change and switch attacking npc's OFF in options to freely spam aoe in towns like lunatic)
too bad! World of Tamriel just introduced to you its own harsh reality. Live by it or die!
It's not for milk drinkers.

P.S.
And if you're stupid enough to fight immortal 'hand of justice' instead of using your SKILLS to get away...
Just no comment
I never got killed or caught (thanks to my skills and some 'Home Made Invisibility Potions')

farrier_ESO

Because they are not meant to be fought. Like shopkeepers. Shopkeepers are invincible too. What's your point? Why is this unfair?

The legerdemain subgame is not about being a hard-ass killing machine. If you want hard-but-beatable bosses, there are those in the game if you want them.

But that's just not what legerdemain is about, and if you don't want to play the "escape from the law" game, and want to play the "mow down the cops" game instead, then there are games for you to explore that, but they are not this game.

It sounds like you want GTA: killable cops, unkillable "law", which eventually ramps up to the point where you must escape from it or die, but only after you've had a fun fight. That's another valid way to handle law, yes. But if you want GTA, then why not just play GTA?

ESO would not be improved in any way by making it into GTA, and in four pages, not one cogent argument has been put forward to argue for *why* they should be changed to be killable, even though people have pointed out the very clear game-balance implications of wussy "only takes a dozen people to kill" guards.

newtinmpls

Majic wrote: »

LameoveR wrote: »

Always lol when see some guy trying to kill guards or escape from them
It's really cool.

The game really should have an /eatpopcorn emote just for situations like these.

Hmmm... I'll have to add that to the list of things I would pay for in the crown store

GreySix

Xabien wrote: »

It is what it is. Personally I've not problem with their immortality. And there are bigger fish to fry. Simply don't be as careless, make an effort not to get caught, problem solved.

This.

Smart criminals are effective and rich.

Stupid ones are dead.

atrioxcub18_ESO

Upon reading the OP I immediately thought of this:

Beware, he says a swearies!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx40udwQvZI

Draconiuos

SG_Celerrimus wrote: »

So, I did some thievery and botched it a bunch of times and landed myself with a 10k bounty. I currently have 0 gold. I am trying to find a Daedra heart in a container in a town, like the old days, but every time I try and walk around to get from house to house to look, I get swarmed by 1-3 guards, and I have no chance of fighting back because they are GODS (WHYY???) and they constantly chain pull me and stun me whenever I try to run away, so my only real option is to just stand there and die.

Please for the love of god, make guards killable, this just isn't fun after a while.

Stop running around with your gold on you. First thing you should learn as a good thief is not to keep money on you but in your bank. Guards can't take gold from you bank.