Immortal guards are getting REALLY annoying.

liquid_wolf

You got yourself into this mess.

Guards might be OP, but the mechanics are there to get around it.

1ne2woBe

zeuseason wrote: »

I'm loving all the guard complaint threads popping up. Players that want to go on crime sprees and never face the consequences. Guards are there for a reason, they are tough for a reason, they have the abilities that they do for a reason. It's your own fault for your own frustration caused by getting caught.

LOL, right? "WTF? Why are they attacking me, and they can not be killed!?!".

Guards have earned their jobs/positions to be the strongest and best. These are the a**'s you do not want to mess with; ever. You do something within their city limits, be prepared for them to beat your rear down. /end

dawnhawk

zeuseason wrote: »

I'm loving all the guard complaint threads popping up. Players that want to go on crime sprees and never face the consequences. Guards are there for a reason, they are tough for a reason, they have the abilities that they do for a reason. It's your own fault for your own frustration caused by getting caught.

I'm pretty much in agreement with this.

- if you don't want to steal, don't. Turn off "autoloot" for stealing (you have that option, you can still keep autoloot on for every non-illegal form of looting). This way you have to click two buttons to steal, none to not steal.

- I don't think some form of "idiot-proof" checkbox to "not steal" is necessary. You mouse over an item is says "steal from". If you don't want to steal that is a pretty big clue to "not click here" (granted...fastest way to get someone lost is to put a sign on where they want to go...). I really don't think we need to put extra time and code into making this game require less thought processes from the gamers.

- stop TRYING to kill the guards. Run away. It's not hard. You may mess up every once in a while - but whatever. Learn from it. Meanwhile - work toward the achievement.

- or pay off your bounty and work toward any one of the various achievements for that.

- There is no causal relationship between "I can steal and kill non-essential npcs" and "I should be able to kill guards".

1ne2woBe

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Sounds like its working as it should.

Don't like the guards bearing down on you? Don't break the law. (...or at least don't get caught... ;-p)

It's easy enough to steal a lot of stuff without getting caught if you're careful... just don't steal where soneone can see.


That said... I for one would like the guards to be killable, at a power level about that of the cyrodil guards. But if you do kill one, it just adds a big chunk to your bounty and spawns three more... so you get killed eventually no matter what. Or maybe have some better way of handling the immortality... like, guards being damaageable, but if they reach 50% HP they call upon Stendarr, and recieve a "divine law enforsement boost" for a massive damage shield and empowered insta-kill attacks... then at least there'd be a lore-ish reason for their might...

I'm totally with you, except I enjoy they can not be killed. It brings a bit more of strategy when you plan on doing bad within the city limits. First, you need to find your target, observe his movements, observe the guards movements/routes, make sure you know where to run in order to escape if you happen to get caught, take into the time factor of the paces, do as you may within the time without getting caught and stamina left from sneaking to make your escape if you happen to get caught. This is all totally fun!!!!

Kalman

I do think they guards should be kill-able. That is only thing that needs to change with them. They need to have 95% to 99% damage reduction tho. It needs to be almost impossible, but still possible to kill them in an MMO.

dawnhawk

Kalman wrote: »

I do think they guards should be kill-able. That is only thing that needs to change with them. They need to have 95% to 99% damage reduction tho. It needs to be almost impossible, but still possible to kill them in an MMO.

Out of actual curiosity and because I may be missing something here...to what end?

wraith808

JaJaLuka wrote: »

The guards aren't actually immortal (GG frames shows their health uncovered but that beige bar, lower level guards have approx. 250K health and craglorn guards have about 450K), but when you get them to about 60-70% health they usually hit you with a 1 shot kill, I'm still experimenting and trying to kill one, but damn it's hard.

Nope. Impossible. They've already said the guards are unkillable, and people all around are trying in any case. The health bar was put in as an illusion for people that continue to want to try...

... but it is amusing to watch, nonetheless.

Pixelex

wraith808 wrote: »

... but it is amusing to watch, nonetheless.

Ouh yeah.. it is!! ^^

wraith808

Pixelex wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

... but it is amusing to watch, nonetheless.

Ouh yeah.. it is!! ^^

The way they could have made it more amusing? Let the bar tick down... then suddenly, go back to max. Hamster wheel, here we come!

But I like the whole cat-and-mouse of it, rather than pure combat. And I hope when they make the pvp portions, they only allow bounty kills in areas where there are no guards...

GreySix

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

I think guards being killable is OK as long as PVP elements are in place meaning that players can be the guards too (and kill the thieves!).

Without it, it is not an option.

I might even sign up for that, ruthlessly hunting down and murdering criminal scum in the streets.

Question: "How do you know who to attack?"

Answer: "If he's running, he's a criminal. If he's standing still, he's a well-trained criminal!"


See if anyone gets the movie reference.

LegacyDM

L2p to people... Didn't you guys get the news? Guard grinding is the new spellscar!

GreySix

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

L2p to people... Didn't you guys get the news? Guard grinding is the new spellscar!

I usually dislike that term, but in this case concur. If you're going to be a crook, learn how to do so without becoming a quivering pulp on the city streets.

eventide03b14a_ESO

zeuseason wrote: »

I'm loving all the guard complaint threads popping up. Players that want to go on crime sprees and never face the consequences. Guards are there for a reason, they are tough for a reason, they have the abilities that they do for a reason. It's your own fault for your own frustration caused by getting caught.

Nobody says they should be easy, but they shouldn't' be immortal either.

jpatek0501ub17_ESO

What is lame is the whole justice system. Boring, dull, fun for 5 minutes. Brb gottta Vomit this game is garbage. ZO$/Bethseda pls hand over to a more capable developer.

Natjur

Once the second part of the Justice system is in place when players can be the GOOD guys. The guards will not longer be immortal. They are only immoral as only half the system is in place. Just wait to patch 1.7, its only.......6 months away.

Use the 'free' time to get all the achievements before players start hunting you.

Nestor

I don't know what the big deal about this is. Once the guard kills you, the bounty is taken off. When you come back, your bounty free. You don't need to kill the guards.

In fact, get a set of low level armor (cheap to repair) or even a costume for your in town nefarious activities. If you get caught, get killed, and start over again.

Natjur

Nestor wrote: »

I don't know what the big deal about this is. Once the guard kills you, the bounty is taken off. When you come back, your bounty free. You don't need to kill the guards.

In fact, get a set of low level armor (cheap to repair) or even a costume for your in town nefarious activities. If you get caught, get killed, and start over again.

That only happens if you have enough gold on your corpse to PAY the bounty on your head. If you don't, your bounty is NOT reset. If they kill you they take gold off your corpse matching your bounty, if your carrying enough.

newtinmpls

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Nobody says they should be easy, but they shouldn't' be immortal either.

Yes, they totally should. There, now somebody said it.

Natjur

I would love them to do the troll song over player corpses when they kill players. Its always fun to see a thief getting nailed.

Nestor

Natjur wrote: »

That only happens if you have enough gold on your corpse to PAY the bounty on your head. If you don't, your bounty is NOT reset. If they kill you they take gold off your corpse matching your bounty, if your carrying enough.

Good to know. I tend to have some mad money on me when I am out and about. So, Fines ain't no thing but rifling through some boxes.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

i wouldnt mind the immortal guards so much if it wasnt for the fact that killing witnesses doesnt reduce your bounty. fact is if i am in a small room with one other guy and he catches me stealing, killing the stool pidgeon should remove the bounty

Arunei

Kalman wrote: »

I do think they guards should be kill-able. That is only thing that needs to change with them. They need to have 95% to 99% damage reduction tho. It needs to be almost impossible, but still possible to kill them in an MMO.

If that was the case, players would just group up to take out the city guards before they do their stealing/killing, which leaves us back at square one. The only way this would work would be if new guards spawned quickly after the original one(s) were killed (like 15-20 seconds or so). That gives you time to steal a few things or kill a few people, but then you better be ready to run, since these spawned guards would also be stronger and have better damage mitigation than the ones you previously muderfied.

Gidorick

I don't mind a NEAR impossible challenge... I mind an impossible challenge.

Obscure

SG_Celerrimus wrote: »

I get swarmed by 1-3 guards, and I have no chance of fighting back because they are GODS (WHYY???) and they constantly chain pull me and stun me whenever I try to run away, so my only real option is to just stand there and die.

Kinda makes you wonder, why the hell does anyone think their character is special? The average starter zone town guards could stroll through the infinite planes of Oblivion stomping the *** out of any Daedric Princes they happen to pass by. The common nameless guard is more powerful than any character in the history of Tamriel, much less yours. What the hell does anyone need your character for anything? There's no tangible danger or threat to Nirn when just a hardfull of guards would be able to defend the entire realm of existence from any threat... ever. It's as if the epic adventure you take your character on, through defeating the Prince of Worms and the Deadric Prince of Domination were simply because the guards had better things to do than waste their time on all those pathetic nuisances.

VR14 Character: "I have bested the greatest of monsters in the deepest pits of the darkest dungeons filled with dastardly traps and unending minions of death and dispair!"

Common Guard: "Cool story. Now shut-up kid. The grown ups are talking."

VR14 Character: "But...but..."

Common Guard: "Something wrong with your ears kid?"

VR14 Character: "nnn-no sir... I'll go now."

Common Guard: "Yeah, I thought so. You know I used to be an adventurer like you, but then I finished potty training... effin' pansy"

V14 Character: "Hey, you listen to me you son of a bit...!"*Tasered in the neck*

Common Guard: "Yeah? I'm listening. Sounds to me like 'Aaaaaaaa'. Graduated to the alphabet kid? Not bad. Next time I'll teach you B and C"*removes taser, walks away*

V14 Character: *twitches*

Tapio75

Guards are as they should. They should be immortal and they should be able to aprehend you if you have a bounty on your head.. Just wait, when PVP part is added, i will join them as will many others

Here is a useful wisdom:

If you can not cope with consequences of being criminal in ESO, do not participate in criminal activities.

farrier_ESO

Gidorick wrote: »

I don't mind a NEAR impossible challenge... I mind an impossible challenge.

I think this is at the root of the complaints. People who see the guards as unfair don't get what the guards are about, and don't get Ledgerdemain.

Stealing stuff is a stealth build activity, like making stuff is a crafter build activity.

Whaling on the guards will get you nowhere, any more than whaling on the crafting tables.

The challenge the guards pose is not the impossible one of defeating them in a battle of arms, but the entirely possible challenge of escaping from them to the safe house before you die. This counts towards an achievement. Fighting guards is not part of any achievement.

Tips for this challenge:

0) beginning of each day, before earning any bounty, feed your horse. Also, do any guild bank/store stuff you plan to do, unless you want to do it with another character.
1) Always know the shortest route to the Outlaw's refuge. Which walls have gaps, which buildings you can squeeze between, which ledges you can jump off, which hedges you can jump over, which corners you can turn to escape that pull-back chain.
2) In strange cities, consider putting the map marker over the nearest Outlaw's Refuge so that you can find the way quickly.
3) Jumping off a cliff that won't kill you is a valid way to get away from the guard.
4) Guards have patrol ranges - if you run far enough, then when they catch you, they'll just whack you once and run off.
5) Learn the guard patrols. You don't want to run into another guard when escaping from the first - getting mobbed by guards is no fun.
6) Don't carry money. Guards are just glorified muggers, and will take your cash for some "bounty" thing, and if you can't pay what they think you owe them, they'll just take all you have, and leave you still with a bounty on your head, albeit reduced by whatever they just stole.
7) It's never worth it to pay the bounty, if there's any chance you can get away, but refusing to adds a bit to your bounty.
8) If you are a sorcerer or have any kind of summon or ally to distract the guard, you *can* get away and hide even within a building. They will then either stop searching for you and return to their route, or kill both you and your ally. But if you manage to hide from them, you can escape out of the door. Sorcerers make great thieves.
9) When pickpocketing people, first ensure you are hidden. THEN look how easy it is to pick their pockets. Wait until the odds are 100%, unless you are feeling brave. 100% means no chance of getting caught by the victom and having a bounty. but passers-by can still notice you if you don't make sure you're safely hidden first.
10) When killing people, first make sure you are both hidden, AND there is nobody nearby to see you. Then make sure you can one-hit your victim. this way, you get no bounty.
11) Past a certain point, it's worth just forcing locks on chests that are likely to get interrupted while picking. This does not count towards the lockpicking achievements.but does count towards the looting-chests achievement. Worst case, you break a pick and have to wait a moment to try again.
12) Get to know one city well, and get yourself a route. Work that route, learning all guard movements on it. You can earn about 15k/hr this way, at least until you've used up all your
13) Get an add-on to auto-junk (or better, auto-destroy) anything that's stolen and worth less than 100g (I don't have one of these, but wish I did - anyone got any suggestions?).
14) Enjoy yourself. Enjoy the guard speech when they catch you. The work put into the art and descriptions for the lore items (why oh why does the silver sweetroll have no graphic?). The joy of successfully eluding your pursuers, and the crushing sense of defeat if they kill you first.
15) While it's often worth paying off a bounty if it's small every time you visit the Outlaw's refuge, sometimes it's worth letting it just build up, then leaving it to decay overnight. Try to avoid getting more than a few k of bounty, though, or you'll just blow away your profits.

Cody

The building thing is ridiculous. Its not just with guards, its with the civilians too. You have to either use invisibility pots or use cloak and avoid being hit for 3-5 seconds before even using the door. If its a guard its almost impossible.

I disagree with everything else though. I myself like the immortal guards. It forces thieves to actually be thieves, not turn into mass murderers as soon as they get caught. It forces strategy and planning, something this game severely lacks at certain points.

And trust me, once you start getting the legerdemain passives; it gets much easier. It gets to the point where you can have 90% chance on hard leveled NPCs and guards:D

Cody

farrier_ESO wrote: »

There's a way to kill guards. Just reverse-pickpocket a grenade. You get an achievement "exploding pants", too.

Wait, that was another game.

that was hilarious:) I remember that.

Panda244

Cody wrote: »

farrier_ESO wrote: »

There's a way to kill guards. Just reverse-pickpocket a grenade. You get an achievement "exploding pants", too.

Wait, that was another game.

that was hilarious:) I remember that.

@Cody YOU'RE ALIVE!?!?!

Majic

Gidorick wrote: »

I don't mind a NEAR impossible challenge... I mind an impossible challenge.

No one is challenging you to defeat guards.

The challenge is learning how to avoid fighting them, and it is not impossible.