One last plea for the new Alliance skills

BugCollector

PvPers have to PvE to get the Undaunted sets. This can take up to a week with casual playing.

PvEers have to PvP to get the Alliance skills, but with the new alliance skills unlocked at rank 10 (!), this requires months and months of intensive playing.

My suggestion is to make these skills available at Assault and Support rank 7. It's still hard to aqcuire for the PvEers, but atleast doable with some effort.

Thanks for reading and hope you understand and agree.

BugCollector

BugCollector wrote: »

PvPers have to PvE to get the Undaunted sets. This can take up to a week with casual playing.

PvEers have to PvP to get the Alliance skills, but with the new alliance skills unlocked at Assault and Support rank 10 (!), this requires months and months of intensive playing.

My suggestion is to make these skills available at Assault and Support rank 7. It's still hard to aqcuire for the PvEers, but atleast doable with some effort.

Thanks for reading and hope you understand and agree.

BugCollector

Sorry for double post

Weberda

BugCollector wrote: »

PvPers AND PvE'rs have to PvE to get the Undaunted sets. This can take up to a week with casual playing.

PvEers AND PvP'rs have to PvP to get the Alliance skills, but with the new alliance skills unlocked at rank 10 (!), this requires months and months of intensive playing.

My suggestion is to make these skills available at Assault and Support rank 7. It's still hard to aqcuire for the PvEers, but atleast doable with some effort.

Thanks for reading and hope you understand and agree.

Fixed your statement. It's the same equation for both classes of players. Both have to commit the same amount of effort to get the same rewards. And I'm not so sure the new skills are all that great anyway. Have to try them out during a 3 hour siege. In regards to your "suggestion" I don't think making the game easier in any form for any class of player is a good idea. They did that way back in May (?) and PvE pretty much turned into a boring milk run.

s7732425ub17_ESO

Actually, some of the Undaunted sets take months of intensive playing to acquire.

olsborg

Vigor should be alliance rank 6. Rank 10 is ridiculously high for a casual player.

Asgari

Going on 4 months now and still don't have a full valkyn set. But only took me 27 days of play time to reach AvA 26. No reason for people to complain one is easier than the other when that isn't true.

UrQuan

I don't really PVP at all, but I don't see any problem with the skills not being unlocked until rank 10. It may mean that I never gain access to them, but so what? It's perfectly OK to have certain things that PVPers get that PVEers won't - in fact, not only is it OK, but it is desirable.

Let's be honest, PVPers kind of get the shaft in a lot of ways. They are basically forced to PVE in order to level at a decent rate, or to earn gold, even if they really don't care for PVE at all. Cyrodil seems to be by far more laggy and bug-prone than any of the PVE areas. They have to burn through potions and food at a way faster rate than PVEers (well, outside of trials anyway) just to stay alive. They haven't had any new PVP content since launch (I think). They deserve to have special rewards that can only be obtained through putting in a lot of PVP time.

Sotha_Sil

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Actually, some of the Undaunted sets take months of intensive playing to acquire.

Doesn't mean it should be painful to get too (this RNG...) but at least in 1.6 you will (supposedly) get shoulders quicker. Rank 10 is ok if you take into consideration that it unlocks for the whole account which is does not right now and this makes it pointless to try grinding imo.

yodased

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Going on 4 months now and still don't have a full valkyn set. But only took me 27 days of play time to reach AvA 26. No reason for people to complain one is easier than the other when that isn't true.

Continually go to this. Comparing RNG to set in stone number gains is not the same thing.

Undaunted SKILLS vs PvP SKILLS is not PvP SKILLS vs Undaunted GEAR. sheesh.

It's whatever, I'm rank 16 now and gaining. I will continue to PvP to get to rank 24.

LonePirate

olsborg wrote: »

Vigor should be alliance rank 6. Rank 10 is ridiculously high for a casual player.

Why should these skills be more easily accessible for casual players? Some things in this game need to require time and effort.

Not only that but it is easier to reach Alliance War Rank 10 than it is Undaunted Level 9.

xaraan

I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Vigor shouldn't even be an alliance war skill. It should have taken the place of Trap Beast in Fighter's Guild line.

All the AW skills are mostly useful just in PvP and have niche uses in PvE with the exception of that one power. It sticks out like a sore thumb. You would think they could create some sort of healing power that would be something more specialized for PvP and just move that one to the FG line. It would also allow them to expand upon the list of AW powers like some PvPers have been wanting and add more powers later in the line if they stuck to ones that were mostly AW focused. Then PvPers would want them and PvErs wouldn't have to QQ over having to play forever to get them because they wouldn't be viewed as 'needed' for what they do.

yodased

LonePirate wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Vigor should be alliance rank 6. Rank 10 is ridiculously high for a casual player.

Why should these skills be more easily accessible for casual players? Some things in this game need to require time and effort.

Not only that but it is easier to reach Alliance War Rank 10 than it is Undaunted Level 9.

Easier is subjective so you are of course entitled to that opinion. Fact is though time allotted needed for the massive majority of people is significantly longer for AW skills than Undaunted skills.

Sallington

Is it Alliance Rank 10, or level 10 in the Alliance skill trees? Because Alliance RANK 10 takes barely any time at all.

xaraan

Sallington wrote: »

Is it Alliance Rank 10, or level 10 in the Alliance skill trees? Because Alliance RANK 10 takes barely any time at all.

It's 10 in the skill tree. I think that's like 24 rank? Not sure off top of head.

yodased

its level 24 rank 10. or 7.984.000 AP

Weberda

yodased wrote: »

its level 24 rank 10. or 7.984.000 AP

It's going to take quite while to get to 24 on Haderus. You ought to come over to Chillrend. There is actual 3-way PvP there 7 days a week.

yodased

Yeah I actually have been in thorneblade with a couple of my guys this weekend and got significantly more AP per session that I ever got on Haderus.

Unfortunately that means dealing with the problems associated with thorneblade. I have a DC toon in chillrend so I would have to get him to 15k ap to get my main in there.

Sallington

yodased wrote: »

its level 24 rank 10. or 7.984.000 AP

I got ~780k AP (Ranked around top 60 for DC) this Thornblade campaign, and played more than I probably will again. So it's about a 10-12 months at that pace to get to skill rank 10. It will easily take most players 16-18 months to get to those skills.

That's kind of crazy.

Weberda

yodased wrote: »

Yeah I actually have been in thorneblade with a couple of my guys this weekend and got significantly more AP per session that I ever got on Haderus.

Unfortunately that means dealing with the problems associated with thorneblade. I have a DC toon in chillrend so I would have to get him to 15k ap to get my main in there.

The DC toon could change for free tomorrow since the campaign ends tonight. I had the same problem with my DC toon. I parked him on Azura last campaign end. Tonight I will probably change Fern's home to Chill from Had.

yodased

@sallington thats kind of been the point for the entire debate of these skills. Your 780k was most likely through extended play sessions of 5+ hours a day, every day.

There are those among us that can pull those numbers + alot more, but they are quite the minority. The average person can pull 5k-15k on a low pop and 20k-30k on thorne a day by my guess. Thats an average run of the mill player, maybe in group maybe not.

You averaged 26k per day in thorneblade for the last 30 days, and you feel you will never play that much again. Imagine what a brand new person getting into PvP because of these skills will feel looking at that massive time sink.

I can tell you that a massive majority of my guild have all but given up on it, they are ok with not having the skills because they simply don't want to put that much time into PvP.

I personally will be grinding it out until I get it then probably not going back.

bosmern_ESO

No

Every update has always be centered around PvErs, If you want to use the alliance skills so bad you have to fight for your alliance to get.

If they all got unlocked at level 7 in the alliance skill line PvP would be a [snip] show, everyone would spam the bomb and it would be no fun, all because people don't want to work for their abilities.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

cozmon3c_ESO

like you said i have to pve for undaunted passives (still dont have them, i just reached rank 6) i do a couple instances a week so pretty casual, so what you say about casual is not true. you just did for undaunted what i did for pvp (pvp rank 29 personally). the way i see it, i will eventually get undaunted rank 10 by picking at it. you should view pvp the same way. just flip our perspectives, am i whining i dont have undaunted 10, no. am i whining i dont have that 2 piece set, no. so why are you whining about earning a pvp ability? if you want it, do the work as everyone else has done since launch, you just did pve side of the work where i did pvp side. seems pretty even to me.

i would rather them flesh out after pvp rank 24, after you reach that rank, what is there? nothing.

Snit

I like the fact that Vigor will bring new blood into Cyrodiil. I'm afraid, however, that getting it will be so difficult, very few PvE players will stick around to pursue it. For anyone not in a PvP-centric guild, it'll take them a year. Incentives are less effective if most people conclude they can't get there.

yodased

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

like you said i have to pve for undaunted passives (still dont have them, i just reached rank 6) i do a couple instances a week so pretty casual, so what you say about casual is not true. you just did for undaunted what i did for pvp (pvp rank 29 personally). the way i see it, i will eventually get undaunted rank 10 by picking at it. you should view pvp the same way. just flip our perspectives, am i whining i dont have undaunted 10, no. am i whining i dont have that 2 piece set, no. so why are you whining about earning a pvp ability? if you want it, do the work as everyone else has done since launch, you just did pve side of the work where i did pvp side. seems pretty even to me.

i would rather them flesh out after pvp rank 24, after you reach that rank, what is there? nothing.

Not sure if you are talking to me here because that's exactly what I am doing. You are also comparing passives that help, but make no massive changes to a build to an active ability that is sorely needed for stamina builds. They are not apples vs apples.

RNG for gear from dungeons is not the same thing as a 8,000,000 AP. There is no comparison to be logically made from your statistical luck of getting gear to 8,000,000 AP. You just as easily could have gotten both the helmet and shoulders in one run or the 1,000 run. There is no chance you can get Vigor in one session of PvP.

I get you feel entitled to something because you put the time into it already and already have it. You feel that everyone else should have to put the time you did because that's fair. I personally don't care if its rank 10 or rank 50, I will grind it out, but there are a LOT Of people that will for all intents and purposes never get this skill.

yodased

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Going on 4 months now and still don't have a full valkyn set. But only took me 27 days of play time to reach AvA 26. No reason for people to complain one is easier than the other when that isn't true.

Also 27 days /played is roughly 12,500 AP per hour if all you ever did was PVP in that time, since you ran dungeons to get sets then thats more likely aeound 19-20k per hour AP.

The fact that you expect, or think its even possible, for the PvE orientated people to get that is amazing.

Asgari

yodased wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Going on 4 months now and still don't have a full valkyn set. But only took me 27 days of play time to reach AvA 26. No reason for people to complain one is easier than the other when that isn't true.

Also 27 days /played is roughly 12,500 AP per hour if all you ever did was PVP in that time, since you ran dungeons to get sets then thats more likely aeound 19-20k per hour AP.

The fact that you expect, or think its even possible, for the PvE orientated people to get that is amazing.

12k ap/hr is very slow. I average 30k most nights.

I have done tons of CoA runs and dailies yet I still don't have a complete set for the valkyn set. And when I say this I mean I have yet to even get a piece. It's about a 45 min run for CoA for most mediocre groups and no helm in over 30 try's. I'm glad the skills are AvA 10 as I have to waste so much time farming so should you.

yodased

Well we can agree to disagree. It sucks that you have had horrible luck and I feel sorry for you that you have to run dungeons that you don't like to do. The RNG has not been kind to you, and that is b.s. My point though, is its RNG making you grind, you very well could get that helm next run.

Those that are level 2 AW however, certainly can't.

Aenlir

I think it's ok you need a high rank for the skills, but I don't like how unfriendly it is to alts. There's no way I want to grind that much ap on multiple characters. They should either make your rank account wide or just the skill line levels account wide.

DeLindsay

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Going on 4 months now and still don't have a full valkyn set. But only took me 27 days of play time to reach AvA 26. No reason for people to complain one is easier than the other when that isn't true.

This is the most telling and what many Players overlook. 27 days of PLAYED TIME could equate to 4-6 MONTHS actual time in Cyrodiil playing many hours/day, which is a complete joke that ZoS would put skills behind that long of a grind.

Samadhi

BugCollector wrote: »

PvPers have to PvE to get the Undaunted sets. This can take up to a week with casual playing.

PvEers have to PvP to get the Alliance skills, but with the new alliance skills unlocked at rank 10 (!), this requires months and months of intensive playing.

My suggestion is to make these skills available at Assault and Support rank 7. It's still hard to aqcuire for the PvEers, but atleast doable with some effort.

Thanks for reading and hope you understand and agree.

Personally have not been able to get any undaunted sets or even finish leveling the skill line yet because my anxiety issues get in the way of running the dungeons and pledges. Same issue for the Dyes that are gated behind Trials achievements.

Already almost have rank 10 in Alliance War though, just due to being able to casually play in PvP solo/duo without concerns.

Different things present different challenges to different people.

Personally am glad that something worthwhile is available to people who put time and effort into PvP. If someone feels the skills are that pertinent to his or her build, he or she can work to earn them.