Should They Change Khajiit Racial Passives? 1.6 changes.

Araxleon

now hear me out.

After lots of testing in 1.6 and softcaps being removed I feel hit hard not my class, but my race

I play a magicka khajiit (yes I was aware of the passives and made this choice from the start but I was aware of softcaps which kept me balanced with others)

but in 1.6 softcaps were removed and I feel weaker compared to other races (I could reroll but I love my magicka khajiit) I know khajiit passives benefit stamina
builds very well but out of all classes it makes khajiit the only race with passives pushing you towards a specific playstyle
(right now I have 0 skill points in weapon crit because well im a caster, where if I was lets say redguard I atleast get stamina recovery)

All I ask is something that works for all playstyles

Current Khajiit Passives

30% Health recovery while in combat (I feel this needs to be changed its good but unlike other races if you arent spec'd into heath recovery its bad.)

Decrease stealth radius by 3.0 meters, Increased damage done while stealthed by 10% (I like this and I feel it works for all playstyles.)

Increase weapon crit by 6% (Its great, if your stamina...Maybe give spell crit also? or change it completely)

I would just like khajiit to feel strong for all playstyles like every other race.

Thanks for reading and good day. (If you disagree please tell me why with reasoning.)

olsborg

With the softcaps removed and some classes not having a bonus to max stat. They should either give us a racial change. Or make the last racial passive optional, as in you can choose it over a list. (im aware this is pretty lore breaking)

Araxleon

olsborg wrote: »

With the softcaps removed and some classes not having a bonus to max stat. They should either give us a racial change. Or make the last racial passive optional, as in you can choose it over a list. (im aware this is pretty lore breaking)

I wish they overhauled all racial passives.

olsborg

Araxleon wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

With the softcaps removed and some classes not having a bonus to max stat. They should either give us a racial change. Or make the last racial passive optional, as in you can choose it over a list. (im aware this is pretty lore breaking)

I wish they overhauled all racial passives.

They might, they already did wood elf. But imo, every race should have atleast one max stat buff of 10%

Drazhar14

I like the current passives, especially the 6% crit!

Rial

olsborg wrote: »

Or make the last racial passive optional, as in you can choose it over a list. (im aware this is pretty lore breaking)

That's not lore-breaking. That's completely undermining the meaning of racials. Racials, per definition of the word, are unique for each race. Making them selectable bonuses available to everyone, there's no race-specific component to it any more and it can't possibly be called racials.

It will also add an additional barrier to the "play the way you want" idea. By selecting such passives, you'll make your character better at one thing and worse at others, thus reducing your future prospects of using the character in different ways than the one you had in mind when creating said character. While racials have a certain logic to them, i.e. reflecting the strengths of the race, these arbitrary bonuses are without reason.

So really, either we keep racials or remove them completely. This in-between option you propose is an uncessesary complication of the game for no reason at all.

eliisra

Araxleon wrote: »

I would just like khajiit to feel strong for all playstyles like every other race.

But how many races are strong for all playstyles? I only know one, the Imperial race, due to overly generous attribute bonuses.

Other races are pigonhol'ed or less strong if you go for "wrong" playstyles, or they're not really best at anything lol. What about a Breton or Altmer that wants to play stamina dps, current fotm on PTS/1.6. They have 0 passives supporting a stamina build (besides Breton's spell resistance).

I'm not fond of it, how much impact race has. Getting(or not having) roughly 10-20% extra resources on your main attributes, is a pretty big deal without softcaps. It's not even a case of min/max, it's actual imbalance in some cases.

It's also not as simple as "stick with your choices, they should matter blah-blah" because in many cases ones initial choice and plan was shattered, due to ZoS constantly changing effectiveness of builds, combat and skill-lines. Also considering how long it takes to re-roll and grind all levels and passives back to max

Played my fair share of MMO's and race was never a big deal. I could pick freely based on lore I liked, RP possibilities, starter- or unique quests and of course appearance I fancied. But class abilities and bonuses, never affected playstyle or role effectiveness that awfully much. I prefer that.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

Yeah I had the same idea in mind, I think Khajiit critical chance into both spell/weapon critical chance would make the race feel much more appreciated and give it more versatility without making it OP.

Araxleon

eliisra wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

I would just like khajiit to feel strong for all playstyles like every other race.

But how many races are strong for all playstyles? I only know one, the Imperial race, due to overly generous attribute bonuses.

Other races are pigonhol'ed or less strong if you go for "wrong" playstyles, or they're not really best at anything lol. What about a Breton or Altmer that wants to play stamina dps, current fotm on PTS/1.6. They have 0 passives supporting a stamina build (besides Breton's spell resistance).

I'm not fond of it, how much impact race has. Getting(or not having) roughly 10-20% extra resources on your main attributes, is a pretty big deal without softcaps. It's not even a case of min/max, it's actual imbalance in some cases.

It's also not as simple as "stick with your choices, they should matter blah-blah" because in many cases ones initial choice and plan was shattered, due to ZoS constantly changing effectiveness of builds, combat and skill-lines. Also considering how long it takes to re-roll and grind all levels and passives back to max

Played my fair share of MMO's and race was never a big deal. I could pick freely based on lore I liked, RP possibilities, starter- or unique quests and of course appearance I fancied. But class abilities and bonuses, never affected playstyle or role effectiveness that awfully much. I prefer that.

by strong I guess I mean full benefit.
All other races arent cornered. Even if you get stam regen that helps you! where the weapon crit if your caster wont you dont even need points in it. where other races not having points in them would be dumb cuz they help slightly.

I find the health recovery very weak...and only useful when your spec'd for it, where stam regen/magicka regen *or any of the other races passives& are always useful no matter what build.

Drazhar14 wrote: »

I like the current passives, especially the 6% crit!

Yeah its great! but if your magicka well... no point thats why I feel like it should change or maybe give spell crit also

Khajiit is one of the few races with a passive that works only for a certain playstyle.

Now I did not care about this in 1.5 (soft caps kept things in check) but in 1.6 softcaps are removed

Araxleon

Small Race Breakdown

High Elf
- Increases Max Magicka by 10%
- Reduces the Magicka cost of spells by 3%
- Increases Spell Resistance by [x]
(Now you might say "oh these are magicka they dont help stamina builds" while about almost all your class skills are gonna cost magicka even in 1.6 and this helps ALOT maybe just slightly but still helps no matter what build)

Redguard
- Increases Stamina Recovery while in combat by 9%
- Increases Max Stamina by 10%
- Restores [x] Stamina to player when damaging an enemy with a melee attack
(Redguard same as highelf in a sense a magicka redguard can roll more than a highelf, regen and max stam are really good, ohh and you may say the melee attack passives doesnt work for magicka but it procs on lava whip and surprise attack and other close range magicka or physical attacks)

Khajiit
- Increases Health Recovery while in combat by 30%
- Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 3m/Increases damage done while in Stealth by 9%
- Weapon crit 6%
(Health recovery is amazing if you build for it but sadly it is reduced by disease and only heals you ever 2 secs (which maybe should change? it getting diseased makes it not worth using. detection radius and increased damage is great! you know why? it works for all attacks outta stealth so its good for magicka and stamina. and the weapon crit is amazing but if you arent a stam build or hybrid you dont even need to put a skill point in)

I feel out of all the races...khajiit is prob the only one where if you went magicka you dont need one of your racial passives, where the others it wouldn't be a waste to have them

(I could go deeper but people prob dont wanna see a wall of text.)

ThatHappyCat

IMO Carnage could be changed to something like "Feline Grace", giving 4% weapon and spell crit and reducing fall damage by 50%.

Erock25

As a fellow Khajit magicka user, I agree something needs to be done. I've always pushed for race change option, but some balancing would be welcomed too.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

IMO Carnage could be changed to something like "Feline Grace", giving 4% weapon and spell crit and reducing fall damage by 50%.

How about the full 6% crit (spell and weapon) and the 50% reduce in fall damage.. since most of the time, fall damage is OOC (out of combat).

Kupoking

Makes me sad they changed argonian potion passive. I choose this race over Khajit for my stam NB

malkraven

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

IMO Carnage could be changed to something like "Feline Grace", giving 4% weapon and spell crit and reducing fall damage by 50%.

I'd like this... but leave it at 6%

Aeratus

I am a magicka Khajiit, and I've said this more than once, and others have as well:

Imperial/Dunmer - play as you want
Khajiit - play as a ganker

Even when it comes to PVE stam builds, Imperial (+5% dps from +10% stam) is superior to Khajiit (+3% dps from +6% crit), but people have not been able to realize that because they seem to think that crit is something "special" (but it is not, when everything just comes down to dps).

Even when it comes to PVP stam builds, Imperial is better. And I'd rather play as bosmer if I wanted to be a stam-based ganker, since their +stam regen is extremely good.

So what is Khajiit good for? Nothing, other than perhaps just a few very narrow builds for PVP.... and roleplay of course (you can't count RPers out!).

I have multiple V14 characters, of different classes and races. I've done endgame PVE (VDSA and SO) and have played PVP with multiple classes (highest at rank 22). But it is my magicka khajiit that I like the most. Since ZOS has shown no competence in handling racials, I won't be playing 1.6 until they overhaul racials.

AnteCoyote

I decided to switch to magicka as well, and I agree that the weapon crit passive isn't at all applicable to magicka builds. Extra regen or resources of any type are welcome for most builds, but this has 0 benefit once 1.6 rolls around for me. Even when running s&b, I only use defensive abilities lately, since I prefer ambush/lotus fan as a gap-closer. The passive is great for stam builds, but I don't think it's fair to practically funnel khajiit players into stam builds with passives that are useless in magicka builds. I don't want to have to wait until the 4th era to be accepted as a viable mage.

LtCrunch

No.

Erock25

Brandalf wrote: »

No.

If you're going to be useless like that, you should probably take your guild advertisement out of your sig. It looks bad for all of you.

Scamandros

Khajiit OP for naked fistfighting.

Otherwise Arax has nailed it for magicka khajiits. Started an alt with a new race but I am not undaunted enough to get into grinding again.

timidobserver

I am not a fan of overhauling all racial passives. That punishes people that actually planned their character out. They would end up making a few people that are not happy with their racial passives happy while making everyone that was happy with them unhappy.

However, with regard to Khajit alone, I would be open to them making the passives less pigeonholy. I don't think it would hurt anything to make that weaponcrit passive into all crit. Particularly since crit is significantly less valuable in 1.6 and hybrid builds are significantly less viable.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Some racials might need a change (e.g. argonian), but the Khajiit weapon crit is one of those who don't need a change. Sure, with a pure magicka build you don't need it, but it is usefull for stamina builds.
Or do you want to change the fire damage increase of the dunmer aswell because it is useless for a non dk stamina build?

Btw, higher magicka regen / max magicka are close to useless for stamina dps as you mostly use magicka for long time buffs so the base regeneration is high enough.

PlagueMonk

You have GOT to be kidding me. You are QQing about one of the more decent races while Argonian were the worst and then had the only decent racial NERFED.

Please go away and be thankful for the racials you have.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Mean post first (nice one next):

Wait, so fix it for you but screw over those who actually like it? Tough break dude, suck it up. Have you even looked at other races because your post makes me think no. I am a wood elf NB using a magicka build and it is devastating and will be even more so in 1.6. Wood Elf dude.....WOOD ELF.....have you seen the racial passives for wood elf? NOTHING to do with magicka. I min/max my character like crazy and still realize the racial passives don't make or break you. They are what they are. Nothing game breaking. L2P, get better gear, think about what skills you use and the passives. If you are seriously depending on racial passives to be "better" than the next player then just wow.....

Now that I got my more dickish comment out, here is a more constructive one:

I do not think it should change however do to the nature of the game with all the various skills and skill builds I think there should be an option to change race. Should only be allowed maybe once every 30 days or something. I know some people get all butt hurt about it but after thinking about it....who cares? If you change your race from khajit to altmer guess what? It doesn't affect me. You can redo morphs, skills, and points, so why not race? Would I change my race? No. But I know many people do because they were either misinformed when they started their character or just realized their original plan for the character wasn't working out and they found something better. It's your money not mine, so IMHO let a person change their race. But again, DO NOT CHANGE WHAT IS NOT BROKEN. Khajit is fine.

Aeratus

PlagueMonk wrote: »

You have GOT to be kidding me. You are QQing about one of the more decent races while Argonian were the worst and then had the only decent racial NERFED.

Please go away and be thankful for the racials you have.

Argonians have had their heyday tho. The potion racial of Argonians effectively gave them +3% crit (magicka or stamina, your pick), and +5 damage (spell or weapon, your pick), because the top dps builds all used 3x potion cooldown glyphs.

Or do you want to change the fire damage increase of the dunmer aswell because it is useless for a non dk stamina build?

Fire damage is not useless for stamina DK. The banner is fire damage, so is the valkyn skoria meteor.

I am a wood elf NB using a magicka build and it is devastating and will be even more so in 1.6.

Wood elf is a better magicka NB than Khajiit. This is because stam regen is crucial to pvp, and many skilled magicka NBs use stam regen glyphs.

Aeratus

(sorry, double post)

PlagueMonk

Aeratus wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

You have GOT to be kidding me. You are QQing about one of the more decent races while Argonian were the worst and then had the only decent racial NERFED.

Please go away and be thankful for the racials you have.

Argonians have had their heyday tho. The potion racial of Argonians effectively gave them +3% crit (magicka or stamina, your pick), and +5 damage (spell or weapon, your pick), because the top dps builds all used 3x potion cooldown glyphs.

lol, you can actually say that with a straight face? That was THE ONLY decent racial passive we had and now its gone. I would suggest you actually look at all the racials before commenting further because you obviously have zero idea who has what.

Aeratus

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

You have GOT to be kidding me. You are QQing about one of the more decent races while Argonian were the worst and then had the only decent racial NERFED.

Please go away and be thankful for the racials you have.

Argonians have had their heyday tho. The potion racial of Argonians effectively gave them +3% crit (magicka or stamina, your pick), and +5 damage (spell or weapon, your pick), because the top dps builds all used 3x potion cooldown glyphs.

lol, you can actually say that with a straight face? That was THE ONLY decent racial passive we had and now its gone. I would suggest you actually look at all the racials before commenting further because you obviously have zero idea who has what.

Yes, but one decent racial, is better than none.

How about Redguard Templar healer? Zero racial passives. So your Argonian was never the worst.

PlagueMonk

Aeratus wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

You have GOT to be kidding me. You are QQing about one of the more decent races while Argonian were the worst and then had the only decent racial NERFED.

Please go away and be thankful for the racials you have.

Argonians have had their heyday tho. The potion racial of Argonians effectively gave them +3% crit (magicka or stamina, your pick), and +5 damage (spell or weapon, your pick), because the top dps builds all used 3x potion cooldown glyphs.

lol, you can actually say that with a straight face? That was THE ONLY decent racial passive we had and now its gone. I would suggest you actually look at all the racials before commenting further because you obviously have zero idea who has what.

Yes, but one decent racial, is better than none.

How about Redguard Templar healer? Zero racial passives. So your Argonian was never the worst.

Wrong....so Redgard templar healers NEVER roll dodge, block or even run? /rolls eyes. +10% stamina is a nice advantage even if you are not a stamina build. Try again.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

You have GOT to be kidding me. You are QQing about one of the more decent races while Argonian were the worst and then had the only decent racial NERFED.

Please go away and be thankful for the racials you have.

Argonians have had their heyday tho. The potion racial of Argonians effectively gave them +3% crit (magicka or stamina, your pick), and +5 damage (spell or weapon, your pick), because the top dps builds all used 3x potion cooldown glyphs.

lol, you can actually say that with a straight face? That was THE ONLY decent racial passive we had and now its gone. I would suggest you actually look at all the racials before commenting further because you obviously have zero idea who has what.

I don't think we need to fight over this, a lot of racials need some rework (including Argonians Racials). I just believe, in my honest oppinion, they should be more open to build diversification. Extra Health, Stamina, Magicka work in any builds and overall serve a general purpose. Elemental damage, Health/Stamina on melee hit, extra weapon crit do not if you don't follow some very specific builds which is a shame.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Aeratus wrote: »

Or do you want to change the fire damage increase of the dunmer aswell because it is useless for a non dk stamina build?

Fire damage is not useless for stamina DK. The banner is fire damage, so is the valkyn skoria meteor.

Which part of "non dk stamina build" (non dk = sorc, nb, templar) didn't you get?