PvE - Bloodspawn Stamina DD test - All Classes tested (Video/passive/skills)

  • Seraphyel
    Seraphyel
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    Thanks for the videos, very informative.

    I just have a question:

    Who* likes playing like this? Just using Wrecking Blow / Jabs over and over, doing nothing else.
    Edited by Seraphyel on February 28, 2015 7:47PM
  • Erock25
    Erock25
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    Seraphyel wrote: »
    Thanks for the videos, very informative.

    I just have a question:

    How likes playing like this? Just using Wrecking Blow / Jabs over and over, doing nothing else.



    The DK and Templar had a bit more going on than that.
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  • Erock25
    Erock25
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    Erock25 wrote: »
    Alcast wrote: »
    Valnas wrote: »
    THIS IS A 4 SECOND CHANNEL. read you cannot do anything for 4 seconds.

    useless skill.

    You can always interrupt it. It is far from useless my friend. Dont be so pessimistic lol.

    It is useless unless in fights with natural breaks. Your dps plummets even if only activating for a single tick here and there. Please explain how you find it useful.

    You could technically use this in a fight on 1.6 Because it also sorta acts as a heal and during certain phases where damage is unavoidable, I'd use the *** out of this in conjunction with things like Rally/Momentum. Also a split second use is better than nothing, that or perhaps stick to heavy attacks. Choice is yours, just please try not to be so angry and narrow minded at everything XD.

    @Khivas_Carrick

    Don't think I came off as angry. I was seriously asking in what situations he found it useful. You answered that question for me, but then again, isn't a lot of that unavoidable dmg blockable? I know some of it is, but there very well could be situations with unblockable, unavoidable dmg that using Dark Exchange/Deal would be beneficial. Most of those situations I know of off the top of my head require you to be DPSing through them (or they actually are avoidable dmg and the strat is to just eat it and DPS through anyway) so again Dark Exchange/Deal is not of much use.

    I ask, have you played a Sorc extensively before this? I have and Dark Exchange has never been a part of my magicka build PVE set up because it totally wrecks your DPS. It would be narrow minded for you to judge a skill without using it.
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  • DeLindsay
    DeLindsay
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    Great testing @Alcast and ty for the videos and quality comparisons
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  • Seraphyel
    Seraphyel
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    Erock25 wrote: »
    Seraphyel wrote: »
    Thanks for the videos, very informative.

    I just have a question:

    How likes playing like this? Just using Wrecking Blow / Jabs over and over, doing nothing else.



    The DK and Templar had a bit more going on than that.

    All I've seen has been "Buffs" (what, 2 clicks?) -> Wrecking Blow 100 times -> "Buffs" -> Executioner. I don't know, the ratio is maybe 1 : 5 for Wrecking Blow... I think that's awful and boring, but are this really the highest DPS builds with 1.6? If yes... I'll go Magicka lol.
  • Alcast
    Alcast
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    Dazin93 wrote: »
    Alcast wrote: »
    Dazin93 wrote: »
    Even in PvE, survival is important so the baseline DPS isn't a meaningful statistic when you fail to account for other factors. 2 classes can do the same dps, but when one is constantly using other skills to stay alive what does your little dps test mean then? Absolutely nothing.
    Your acting like you've done some great favor to everyone and judging by your language and reaction the only one crying here is you.I

    If you find all that *** useless, then why are you even bothering posting?

    At least now i know at who he is pointing LoL
    AdCSf67.jpg

    To tell you that I don't see the the point nor value of your testing. I guess you just want a bunch of sycophants and fanbois applauding you. It's a good thing research in the real world doesn't work this way; we would probably believe the world is still flat and a bunch of other inane theories.

    Your defensive because you can't provide a logical counter-argument to my line of reasoning, or explain the value of a isolated dps comparison that excludes critical game play mechanics and build factors, so you have to resort to immature name calling. End of story.

    I dont care about criticism, but QQ and feedback is not the same thing. If you say that *** is useless tell me how I can improve my dps more? Mr. Genius
    Cesille -- Redguard Templar -- Xeloki -- Redguard DK // Cezille -- Altmer Templar // Cathamalexiaqotinissiza -- Redguard Sorcerer
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  • Erock25
    Erock25
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    Seraphyel wrote: »
    Erock25 wrote: »
    Seraphyel wrote: »
    Thanks for the videos, very informative.

    I just have a question:

    How likes playing like this? Just using Wrecking Blow / Jabs over and over, doing nothing else.



    The DK and Templar had a bit more going on than that.

    All I've seen has been "Buffs" (what, 2 clicks?) -> Wrecking Blow 100 times -> "Buffs" -> Executioner. I don't know, the ratio is maybe 1 : 5 for Wrecking Blow... I think that's awful and boring, but are this really the highest DPS builds with 1.6? If yes... I'll go Magicka lol.

    I didn't fine tooth comb the videos but it looked like the DK kept up the Unstable Flame dot (every 10 seconds) and used a few Obsidian Shields to keep Mountain's Blessing passives going.

    As for going magicka build because this is boring, be lucky you weren't a magicka sorc in 1.5 who literally just kept power surge going and spammed crushing shock. Worst. Best. Rotation. Ever.
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  • ferryofacheronub17_ESO
    ferryofacheronub17_ESO
    Soul Shriven
    This is great, thanks for putting this up. Don't stoop yourself to the haters trying to get your attention, they are bringing nothing meaningful to the discussion, there is nothing you could say or do that would be universally applicable to all the types of combat of ESO , so it is really not hard to find some "flaw" that you could start an argument about; don't fall for it.
  • JLB
    JLB
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    Awesome testing and comparison @Alcast.
    As mentioned, I only miss Templar's using the same Wreckling Blow rotation, but it all seems pretty balanced.
    GJ.
    Edited by JLB on February 28, 2015 9:44PM
  • Reykice
    Reykice
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    Thank you for this!

    Damn the haters, this is quite useful as it shows they did balance the damage the classes do...

    Sure some will nitpick but yea, thank you!
  • cschwingeb14_ESO
    cschwingeb14_ESO
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    If swaps to another weapon (ie bow for poison arrow) or weaving class stam skills are not helping dps, then the main damaging attack is way to strong. I think we already knew that about wrecking blow

  • Leon119
    Leon119
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    Dazin93 wrote: »
    So you tested single target stamina builds vs a static mob and found they do comparative damage....... I guess that's great for people that fight PvE mobs that stand still for them, but it's meaningless in PvP terms. A pointless comparison in my opinion.

    If you can demonstrative that all stamina class builds are competitive in terms of sustain, dps, survivability, and utility then that would be impressive. The fact is they are not, so a dps only comparison is irrelevant.

    Its has meaning due to the fact most fights are like that. Mantikora and serpent are both static fights so this is a good test. Also this is a PvE test. If you want a PvP comparison then look somewhere else because it seems you are lost

  • WarlordGrievous
    WarlordGrievous
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    halfbadger wrote: »
    Sorry that this is off topic,but it's killing me.Hay OP I was wondering what helmet is that on the Sorcerer?

    You get it by using the stamina morph of bound armour

    Hay thanks,thought it looked like the Imperial Daedric and I was wtf.
  • Alcast
    Alcast
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    JLB wrote: »
    Awesome testing and comparison @Alcast.
    As mentioned, I only miss Templar's using the same Wreckling Blow rotation, but it all seems pretty balanced.
    GJ.

    Templar gets also around 16kdps with Wblow.

    I did 1 bow test now and it seems bow is also decent, I do not have the right gear so I miss very important bonuses and I had my CP in the wrong tree >.>

    Cesille -- Redguard Templar -- Xeloki -- Redguard DK // Cezille -- Altmer Templar // Cathamalexiaqotinissiza -- Redguard Sorcerer
    Achievements
    Wildfire Hodor RIP in CWC
    Worlds 1st vAS HARDMODE clear in CWC
    Worlds 1st vAS clear in CwC // Worlds 1st vAS + 1 Llothis clear in CwC // Worlds 1st vAS + 1 Felms clear in CwC
    Worlds 1st HoF Tick-Tock Tormentor in HotR
    Worlds First HoF Stress Tested in HotR // Worlds First Hof Well-Oiled Machine in HotR
    Worlds 1st Halls of Fabrication clear // Worlds 1st Halls of Fabrication Hardmode clear // Worlds 1st Halls of Fabrication Speedrun
    Worlds #1 vMoL Score 165456 in HS // Worlds #1 vSO Score 173761 in HS // Worlds #1 vAA Score 145157 in HS
    Worlds #1 vMoL Score 163308 in OT // Worlds #1 vSO Score 171353 in OT// Worlds #1 vAA Score 144177 in OT // Worlds #1 vHRC Score 154149 in OT
    Worlds #1 vMoL Score 150882 in SotH // Worlds #1 vSO Score 153121 in SotH // Worlds #1 vAA Score 121093 in SotH // Worlds #1 vHRC Score 128815 in SotH
    Worlds #1 vMoL Score 93699 in DB // Worlds #1 vSO Score 159083 in DB
    Worlds #1 vMoL Score 86828 in TG
    Worlds 1st Guild to complete ALL vMoL achievments // Worlds 1st vMoL clear [VR16] // Worlds 1st vMoL speed run [VR16]
    Worlds 1st vMoL No-Death // Worlds 2nd vMoL HM
    Worlds 1st vMSA Stamina Clear (Templar) // Worlds 1st vMSA Stamina no Death (DK) // Worlds 2nd vMSA Stamina no Death (NB)
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  • ghengis_dhan
    ghengis_dhan
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    Awesome testing! I really appreciate the work you put into this, because I'm thinking of changing one of my sorcerers into a stamina build.

    I don't get the comments about Dark Exchange being useless. Maybe they forgot to say that it was useless for their build or play style.

    As a healer in Cyrodiil, Dark Exchange is critical during tough fights when I am out of magicka, and potions are on cooldown. I hit Unstoppable then Dark Exhange; four seconds later, I'm back in the fight and healing as before. Yes, I use the restoration staff heavy attack, but sometimes it is not an option.

    As to Dark Deal, I haven't played a tank since May, but I'd think a sorcerer tank could use it. Say you hit Lightning Form for boosted protection, then Unstoppable to stop any interrupts, and finally Dark Deal. As long as you recently taunted the boss and have a good healer, it could be viable.
    Edited by ghengis_dhan on March 1, 2015 5:04PM
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  • Aaramis
    Aaramis
    Re: the NB testing, was Mark Target used at all?
    I couldn't tell and didn't notice it on the hotbar.

    Also, you list Power Extraction but I didn't see it used either.
  • Rune_Relic
    Rune_Relic
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    shooting star / Caltrops / poison injection / lethal arrow.....
    Could you not fit in poison injection + scorched earth > lethal arrows ?
    Is targetting too awkward ?

    Anyway many thanks for the vids.
    Interesting comparing different class versions of the same build.
    Anything that can be exploited will be exploited
  • Khivas_Carrick
    Khivas_Carrick
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    Hmm, my stuff against that other guy got removed.

    Good.

    Alcast, Halfbadger, good job here guys, I'll do more testing on live to make a more detailed account on how the classes perform
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  • Father
    Father
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    I'm kinda concerned about Unstable Flame. since its a stamina ability and a melee physical hit, does it get affected by the "Mighty" passive +25% physical dmg and also the Elemental passive +25% fire dmg :neutral: ?
    Edited by Father on March 2, 2015 12:11AM
  • halfbadger
    halfbadger
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    Father wrote: »
    I'm kinda concerned about Unstable Flame. since its a stamina ability and a melee physical hit, does it get affected by the "Mighty" passive +25% physical dmg and also the Elemental passive +25% fire dmg :neutral: ?

    It does not
  • Deviante
    Deviante
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    To be honest id be really happy sticking to bow dps if we can push around 14k compared with the melee at 16k.

    I think over the course of most fights with the movement involved and target switching/avoiding mechanics the bow would come into line with the lost dps in melee.

    What I would really like to see is a build maximising bow dps to see how far you can push it.

    My plans so far have been to make the switch to lethal arrow over focused aim.
    With a 5 piece morag tong set increasing poison damage by 15% weaving lethal arrow and light attack, while maintaining poison injection under 50%. Then using Relentless focus/Evil Hunter/Piercing Mark/Rally/Flawless Dawnbreaker to really push the damage output.

    My only concern is that I will be digging myself into just one spec due to champion points focusing on increased poison damage rather than physical.
  • byrom101b16_ESO
    byrom101b16_ESO
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    Mantic0r3 wrote: »
    So as long as you use 2h melee you can do whatever you want and be whatever class you want, thats nice for fairness and balance between classes but what about 2h melee vs other weapons? Seems 2h melee is way over the top right now.

    Yes it is...

    ZOS said they want all the classes to have similar dps.

    They didn't say, "but only with stamina builds, 2H weapons and Wrecking Blow".

    But that's the reality here...

    "Play as you want to play"... yeah...

    @OP - thanks for taking the effort to do this - it is most useful and a solid contribution to our understanding of some stamina builds on the PTS.

    Would you consider doing the same for magicka builds?
    Edited by byrom101b16_ESO on March 2, 2015 9:36AM
  • WhiskyBob
    WhiskyBob
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    I also recommend Corrosive Armor for 4 hits - 9kills combo for pvp (masters sword required)
    Orcs demand better passives!
  • asteldian
    asteldian
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    Seraphyel wrote: »
    Erock25 wrote: »
    Seraphyel wrote: »
    Thanks for the videos, very informative.

    I just have a question:

    How likes playing like this? Just using Wrecking Blow / Jabs over and over, doing nothing else.



    The DK and Templar had a bit more going on than that.

    All I've seen has been "Buffs" (what, 2 clicks?) -> Wrecking Blow 100 times -> "Buffs" -> Executioner. I don't know, the ratio is maybe 1 : 5 for Wrecking Blow... I think that's awful and boring, but are this really the highest DPS builds with 1.6? If yes... I'll go Magicka lol.

    How is it any different to 1.5 whether magicka or stamina you essentially spam the same main skill again and again with occassional presses in between
  • Erock25
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    Awesome testing! I really appreciate the work you put into this, because I'm thinking of changing one of my sorcerers into a stamina build.

    I don't get the comments about Dark Exchange being useless. Maybe they forgot to say that it was useless for their build or play style.

    As a healer in Cyrodiil, Dark Exchange is critical during tough fights when I am out of magicka, and potions are on cooldown. I hit Unstoppable then Dark Exhange; four seconds later, I'm back in the fight and healing as before. Yes, I use the restoration staff heavy attack, but sometimes it is not an option.

    As to Dark Deal, I haven't played a tank since May, but I'd think a sorcerer tank could use it. Say you hit Lightning Form for boosted protection, then Unstoppable to stop any interrupts, and finally Dark Deal. As long as you recently taunted the boss and have a good healer, it could be viable.

    I'm saying dark exchange is useless when you're talking about high end group pve dps numbers. Dark exchange/deal will never find its way into a group pve boss dps rotation, which is exactly what this entire thread is about.

    Aabout a tank using dark deal. There are absolutely times when a tank has a few seconds to use some dark deal, but I'd advise against it while the boss is hitting you. I wouldn't layer with lightning form and unstoppable since they give the same buffs now.


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  • halfbadger
    halfbadger
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    Would you consider doing the same for magicka builds?

    Neither Alcast or I have the gear to do magicka tests on the pts.
  • byrom101b16_ESO
    byrom101b16_ESO
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    halfbadger wrote: »
    Would you consider doing the same for magicka builds?

    Neither Alcast or I have the gear to do magicka tests on the pts.

    Understood, thanks for the answer.

    But then, why would you have the gear... stamina is to be crowned King very soon! :wink:
  • Erock25
    Erock25
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    Aaramis wrote: »
    Re: the NB testing, was Mark Target used at all?
    I couldn't tell and didn't notice it on the hotbar.

    Also, you list Power Extraction but I didn't see it used either.

    I do not think Mark Target was used and Power Extraction is useless when you are using Rally.
    You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
    You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points
  • Cuyler
    Cuyler
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    Great stuff @Alcast and @halfbadger!
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  • Cuyler
    Cuyler
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    @Alcast, Just wondering were you using all v14 legendary gear?
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    Currently Inactive: vMA: 532402
    www.twitch.tv/Cuylr
    PC - NA
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    Characters:
    Cuyylr - Khajiit DK Stamina DD
    Cuylre - Dunmer NB Magicka DD
    Cuylur - Dunmer DK Magicka DD
    Cuylr - Redguard Templar Stamina DD
    Yiihle - Altmer Sorcerer Magicka DD
    Agricus - Imperial DK Tank
    Vaiynne - Bosmer NB Stamina DD

    Work in Progress:
    [lvl13] Cuylrr - Altmer Templar Magicka DD/Healer

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