Why isn't anyone pushing for more CP from the conversion?

ThatNeonZebraAgain

It's pretty much recognized that characters over VR6 will become overall less versatile and powerful with 1.6, and that one needs anywhere from 300-900 CP gets you back to where you were before the update. Does this not bother anyone else? The original 30CP was indeed terrible, but 70 is only barely better as it still asks players to sacrifice a good chunk what they've gained since they started playing. I'm fine with all the ability changes (even if the main, niche advantage of my Argonian NB is getting shafted), but this still seems like a glaring problem with 1.6.

Kragorn

This subject was thrashed to death when ZOS announced it, as a quick search round here will show you. ZOS have clearly said they're not going to change it so it's going live as it is, no point carrying on complaining any more.

Basically 'deal with it' is what they've said.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

People were throwing a fit for weeks over it. ZOS dont care. We got 70 from 30 thats all they are willing to give us.

byrom101b16_ESO

Yes, apparently it doesn't matter that you won't be capable of doing content you currently can on the same character with the same gear.

The new/old grind back to parity is what will fill in for real new content before the coonsole release and the subsequent Hrothgar expansion.

Imagine if BMW replaced your 3 litre engine with a 2 litre without your permission, then told you that you could get it upgraded in 6 months back to 3 litres, or maybe sooner if you paid them a subscription and were prepared work on the engine yourself?

No BMW employees at ZOS methinks...

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Yea I saw it was a big deal in the beginning, but since they conceded and changed it to 70 it seems to have mollified the topic. But it is still a valid issue, especially for people who have completed Cadwell's Silver/Gold and have few ways to gain exp for Champ Points.

GreyBrow

The reason you don't see the threads anymore is because ZOS gave everyone 3600 CP to play around with, and they realized they were super powerful.

Like any other children, we were distracted by the shiny new toy and immediately forgot about our bloody nose and scraped knees.

But 24 hours after 1.6.x goes live and the shiny distraction is taken away, all hell will break loose around here

McDoogs

Because it's a waste of time to ask for something that won't even be considered.

Father

Characters over vr6 will enjoy more stats and more powerfull gear for now till they remove the vet ranks.

Helluin

To have back the exp of achievements earned during VR or at least from VR14 would be something good and it could grant some more CP.

Lied

Personally I'm fine with the amount I'm getting. However, just as a conspiracy theory aside, if it were up to my sneaky half to push this sort of conversion on my own MMO community, I probably would have low-balled the original conversion rate and then a little over doubled it later on after community complaints.

ToRelax

I have no problem with the amount I'm getting then again I don't care at all about endless character progression.
The problem here I think is not that 70 points is to weak but 3600 to strong.

DeLindsay

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

It's pretty much recognized that characters over VR6 will become overall less versatile and powerful with 1.6, and that one needs anywhere from 300-900 CP gets you back to where you were before the update. Does this not bother anyone else? The original 30CP was indeed terrible, but 70 is only barely better as it still asks players to sacrifice a good chunk what they've gained since they started playing. I'm fine with all the ability changes (even if the main, niche advantage of my Argonian NB is getting shafted), but this still seems like a glaring problem with 1.6.

Not remotely true. Even as little as 100-200 CP will boost you OVER what we are right now, effectiveness wise. Hell My PvE Tank build will be STRONGER the day 1.6 hits, my DPS spec is only weaker in respect to Crit but since Crit is undervalued without soft caps it really won't effect me much. My Healing spec (I'm a NB) will be stronger the day 1.6 hits with the only exception being how much damage I will take with horribly low Armor/Spell Resistance. The only 2 areas where I will actually be weaker is solo Grinding and PvP, both will be fixed with a little over 100 CP. I did have to change some gear/Glyphs but all in all I'm perfectly fine with 70 to start. The issue isn't that ZoS is only giving us 70, the issue is there are too many Players who refuse to tweak their gear, Glyphs, Abilities and just expect 1.6 to be the I-Win button. Adapt or perish.

Vanzen

I ve been soloing ressources with only 99 cp (thats means one month at 1cp a day ...) in Cyrodiil, and It already feels like god mode. Many people are realy wrong about 1.6. They havent tested enough nor do one bit of theorycrafting.

Natjur

You also now get exp from achievements, so you will get CP fast (unless you have done most achievements, then you will cry)

PlagueMonk

Natjur wrote: »

You also now get exp from achievements, so you will get CP fast (unless you have done most achievements, then you will cry)

Wait, what is this??? You have any proof of this because if so it is utter BULL *****

I am nearly done with most of my ach so to not be compensated for that is well beyond even Caldwell's silver/gold.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Natjur wrote: »

You also now get exp from achievements, so you will get CP fast (unless you have done most achievements, then you will cry)

Already completed about 2/3 of the achievements

DeLindsay wrote: »

Not remotely true. Even as little as 100-200 CP will boost you OVER what we are right now, effectiveness wise. Hell My PvE Tank build will be STRONGER the day 1.6 hits, my DPS spec is only weaker in respect to Crit but since Crit is undervalued without soft caps it really won't effect me much. My Healing spec (I'm a NB) will be stronger the day 1.6 hits with the only exception being how much damage I will take with horribly low Armor/Spell Resistance. The only 2 areas where I will actually be weaker is solo Grinding and PvP, both will be fixed with a little over 100 CP. I did have to change some gear/Glyphs but all in all I'm perfectly fine with 70 to start. The issue isn't that ZoS is only giving us 70, the issue is there are too many Players who refuse to tweak their gear, Glyphs, Abilities and just expect 1.6 to be the I-Win button. Adapt or perish.

You're correct, with some builds or playstyles the difference will not be as drastic. My experience, and that of many others I've talked to, has been different. With 70CP and few prospects (or time) to gain more in a steady way, I will be forced to choose to either be an effective PvE tank, or switch to a DPS-type build for PvPing. Right now, I can do both very well just by switching gear/enchants. But if I try to do that after 1.6 with just 70CP, I will be mediocre at both.

xMovingTarget

I wouldnt mind to get 90 points instead of 70 just to be able to get the first passives. But actually 70 points is okay. It all depends on the rate you actually gain CP.

DeLindsay

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

I will be forced to choose to either be an effective PvE tank, or switch to a DPS-type build for PvPing. Right now, I can do both very well just by switching gear/enchants. But if I try to do that after 1.6 with just 70CP, I will be mediocre at both.

I won't disagree with that and like I said I had to change my gear/Glyphs to adapt to the new system. PvP will hit me the hardest as I am a 1vX Magicka build. Solo content, if I'm being honest, is too easy right now on Live so getting weaker the moment 1.6 hits isn't really a bad thing and I'll adapt to that as well with different tactics. I'll probably die a few times on fights that are easy to me now until I get it all smoothed out. My PvE DPS and Tank gear I changed 4 pcs of both (completely different sets) to compensate for the changes and both look promising for 1.6. My Healing setup hasn't changed at all yet and I see no issues other than like I said above the much higher damage I will take.

This is coming from a NB perspective so I can't make valid comments on the other 3 Classes in regards to difficulty with only 70 CP after 1.6 hits Live. I can only imagine that the almighty DK will be fine and Templars seem to be in a good place in 1.6 and then there's those poor Sorcs who have both gotten huge buffs (in areas where they didn't want them) and all kinds of WTF nerfs so I have no idea how they will do shortly after 1.6 hits.

xMovingTarget wrote: »

I wouldnt mind to get 90 points instead of 70 just to be able to get the first passives. But actually 70 points is okay. It all depends on the rate you actually gain CP.

90+ CP is where I'm targeting as being fully "inline" with what I am on Live 1.5.8.

Cuyler

xMovingTarget wrote: »

I wouldnt mind to get 90 points instead of 70 just to be able to get the first passives. But actually 70 points is okay. It all depends on the rate you actually gain CP.

Yeah this is spot on. I feel that since we are v14 we should be able to unlock the level 30 passives from the get go.

f047ys3v3n

I have been pushing for the roughly 250 CP I am due. Bottom line, beta's over and this is as close to a character wipe as they thought they could get away with. Wipe gear by nerfing endgame sets, Wipe XP by not awarding CP that is due and promised, Wipe gold by inflating gold drops, and simply wipe the leaderboards. Thank you for playing our paid beta for console, here is your wipe and tiger costume.

Fayaburn

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

I have been pushing for the roughly 250 CP I am due. Bottom line, beta's over and this is as close to a character wipe as they thought they could get away with. Wipe gear by nerfing endgame sets, Wipe XP by not awarding CP that is due and promised, Wipe gold by inflating gold drops, and simply wipe the leaderboards. Thank you for playing our paid beta for console, here is your wipe and tiger costume.

100% True.

Btw, I took a look at your posting history and you are spot on almost each statement you made about the state of this game and the changes to come. You Sir clearly have a very lucid and insightful vision about Teso and Mmo mechanics in general.

AlnilamE

Not really. It's going to be fun to go out and get CP on my VR characters.

Teargrants

Father wrote: »

Characters over vr6 will enjoy more stats and more powerfull gear for now till they remove the vet ranks.

Nope. They've stated they will retain something akin to an 'item level' that will differentiate V1-V14 gear.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Natjur wrote: »

You also now get exp from achievements, so you will get CP fast (unless you have done most achievements, then you will cry)

Just to avoid any potential confusion, we want to clarify that you will not be able to gain XP from achievements.

pppontus

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

You also now get exp from achievements, so you will get CP fast (unless you have done most achievements, then you will cry)

Just to avoid any potential confusion, we want to clarify that you will not be able to gain XP from achievements.

@ZOS_GinaBruno - Are you removing XP from the Veteran Dungeon achievements? Because they do give XP in 1.5, at least some of the Veteran Slayer achievements do. I recently got a large amount of XP for one of the achievements in Wayrest Sewers.

ZOS_GinaBruno

pppontus wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

You also now get exp from achievements, so you will get CP fast (unless you have done most achievements, then you will cry)

Just to avoid any potential confusion, we want to clarify that you will not be able to gain XP from achievements.

@ZOS_GinaBruno - Are you removing XP from the Veteran Dungeon achievements? Because they do give XP in 1.5, at least some of the Veteran Slayer achievements do. I recently got a large amount of XP for one of the achievements in Wayrest Sewers.

You're getting XP from completing the achievement, or killing the monsters for the achievement? Sorry, just want to make sure we're both on the same page.

Attorneyatlawl

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

You also now get exp from achievements, so you will get CP fast (unless you have done most achievements, then you will cry)

Just to avoid any potential confusion, we want to clarify that you will not be able to gain XP from achievements.

@ZOS_GinaBruno - Are you removing XP from the Veteran Dungeon achievements? Because they do give XP in 1.5, at least some of the Veteran Slayer achievements do. I recently got a large amount of XP for one of the achievements in Wayrest Sewers.

You're getting XP from completing the achievement, or killing the monsters for the achievement? Sorry, just want to make sure we're both on the same page.

You currently do get a good chunk of XP from the actual achievement being completed, not just the bosses/trash monsters. EDIT: One of the good ways to help level through Veteran levels is still (since launch) to save doing any of them until you're vet 8 (for the vr10 tier dungeons), then do all of them for the (at that point full-value) bonus XP awarded by those achievements. If they aren't meant to apply to champ XP, I hope they don't get chopped out completely and no longer award vet XP either at that point .

derpsticks

@ZOS_GinaBruno See this thread and comment I made about this.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1587052/#Comment_1587052

Please make sure this stays as is or is removed before 1.6 goes live.

kojou

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

I have been pushing for the roughly 250 CP I am due. Bottom line, beta's over and this is as close to a character wipe as they thought they could get away with. Wipe gear by nerfing endgame sets, Wipe XP by not awarding CP that is due and promised, Wipe gold by inflating gold drops, and simply wipe the leaderboards. Thank you for playing our paid beta for console, here is your wipe and tiger costume.

Technically it is a tiger mount and a scary clown costume.

Natjur wrote: »

You also now get exp from achievements, so you will get CP fast (unless you have done most achievements, then you will cry)

If they are actually giving champion points for achievements in the future then those of us that have already accomplished said achievements should get those champion points retroactively. There is no way in Coldharbour I am doing some of those achievements (e.g. Monster Hunter, Tamriel Hero, and Explorer) again on another character. In a perfect world I would also like to see champion points for Alliance Ranks given and applied retroactively, but that is probably asking too much.

I think an equation that gives me ~90 Champion Points would be a good amount after looking at the system on PTS. That will put me in a pretty good place from a DPS perspective.

IMO this is less of a wipe and more to encourage/force us to run through content again on a new character since there aren't going to be any new zones for a while. My VR14 Nightblade with 11,300 Achievement Points doesn't have a lot of game left to play, but 1.6 and the Champion Point system forces me to play everything again on my VR4 DK with only 3145 Achievement Points since he actually has content left that will reward him faster.

kojou

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

You also now get exp from achievements, so you will get CP fast (unless you have done most achievements, then you will cry)

Just to avoid any potential confusion, we want to clarify that you will not be able to gain XP from achievements.

But are there achievements or ranks that award champion points?

Snit

You get huge amounts of experience for many achievements in VR ranks. Everything from completing dolmens to "Veteran X Killer" in veteran dungeons awards achievements. This is a big part of how many of us leveled from VR1 to 14.

That's the problem. A fresh VR1 with no achievements may have a significantly easier time earning CP than a VR14 who has been playing extensively. This assumes all EXP earned by VR-rank characters translates to CP.

If you're removing EXP from achievements, you're making it harder for folks to level their veteran ranks.