Another Sorc Nerf .

pppontus

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Would be much fun if the Sorcs got their class change and only to realise the other classes aren't as good as they think, they don't play themselves you know. [/url]

Have V14 NB and V1 DK.

Do you know what I did on the V1 DK yesterday.... City of Ash hard mode. Honestly, it wasn't a big deal. I didn't feel underpowered. The DK has excellent damage output so that even running a V1 you only give up about 150 DPS vs a similarly geared V14 magica sorc and you actually gain a massive amount of AOE vs the sorc. I know because I have that V14 sorc and both toons have a set of the proper level warlock seducer armor for solo questing. I often wear this on my sorc when I am too lazy to switch the good DPS gear from my NB to do a dungeon.

Love the DK. Even if it didn't do massively better DPS than other classes I would love it. It's abilities are just so well thought out. They synergize well together and there is a proper set for just about every conceivable situation. Sorcerers on the other hand have a summoning line if you want pets that steal heals from the tank and wipe the group, a dark magic line for not CC'ing anything worth CC'ing, and a storm calling line for not doing damage. Realistically, in almost any PVE content you do you will have 1 soc ability on the main bar in crit surge and one on the back bar in negate. Sure you could throw a CC on if you are worried about the trash pulls but it's entirely unnecessary as surge is also your only functional heal and the only stuff you would have trouble healing through will not CC anyway.

I PVP'd the other day and it was so strange to put Sorc skills on my bar. Wow, things worth CCing that actually CC and hmm, this execute does crap damage but because of the way that it procs combined with the curse ability it is quite lethal in PVP provided you have only one target to hit. Problem is, none of this translates to anything useful fighting a boss with a million health. It is my theory that all class balance was tested by devs 1V1-ing each other and so they don't see the issue because sorcs don't do to badly at that.

I should mention that it is a tricky thing to try to balance the sorc. Because the class is so CC heavy you run into the problem that if the ability, say negate, works it can be vastly overpowered. You could make a boss sit down and take a beating for quite a few seconds or dispel his massively damaging floor effect. It would be too powerful so instead, it does nothing. Sorcs have quite a lot in their trees that work this way as they have 4 or 5 CC's. These are all worthless in PVE. Similar balance problems effect the damage abilities but going the other direction. The combination of Curse, Fury is a go to in PVP but does not do much for PVE as the overall damage output is very low. The reason it is good in PVP is that the curse can proc the fury so that it surprises the enemy and wipes out like 40% of their health in one go. They thought they had plenty of time to pop dragon blood or breath but in fact did not. Now, imagine if these abilities were scaled to actually be viable in PVE. They would not take 40% of health now but 65%. Talk about oppressive, enemies would have to keep their health at 100% at all times just to be safe. The pets are another problem as if they did real DPS for PVE, people would just send them off the keep wall to annoy and wreak havoc in PVP. As such they are just scaled so low they don't do much of anything. Do you see the problem? It is the type of skill that sorcs have that makes it hard to make work in PVP and PVE. This same problem effects to some extent NB's with dark cloak as, if it worked, it would be the most powerful skill in the game, an automatic escape button. The solution is to simply make the skills not function at all. DK's and Templars simply have fewer of these type skills and so they basically work. I'm not saying it can't be done. Certainly Sorcs could be given say and instant cast version of crystal shards that would be weavable but not knock down. Boom, they would be viable again since their single target dps would now be the highest. This would not make them a good class. They would still be hollow as you would really only add this one skill to the bar in place of crushing shock and run basically the same bar for everything. This contrasted with a DK that that might have a tank, AOE, single target, and solo bar all with different skills. The sorc would at least make leaderboards in this scenario and people might not even complain but I am here to tell you that the DK is far more compelling and DPS is only the tip of that iceberg. It's actually a bit amazing that the sorc hasn't gotten some sort of duct tape fix like this.

For what it is worth I would respec my sorc to a templar in a heartbeat. This would give me one of each of the functional classes. I'm sure most people would, and that is why it won't happen.

Have you played the Sorc much on the PTS? I actually have to run potions for buffs because there are so many Sorc abilities I want on my bar now (in different situations obviously): Liquid Lightning (best dot in the game), Daedric Prey, Crystal Frags, Thundering Presence, Twilight, Mages Fury, Ward, Clannfear (the heal), Bolt Escape, Dark Exchange (the one that toggles thing), Bound Aegis (8% magicka woo), Shattering Prison, Daedric Minefield.. all of them are incredibly useful and I'm having such a hard time choosing which ones to take off in any given situation. I agree with you in 1.5 Sorcs were boring as hell to play, one button rotation, but now I just can't play any other class much on the PTS because the Sorc is so much fun. And it's pretty effective too.

Derra

While i agree with you on the pve efficiency of the class in 1.6 @pppontus you can´t be serious when you´re claiming the sorc has awesome abilities when compared to a DK or NB. They (the sorc abilities) are ok and serve their purpose.

Still shattering prison is a million times worse than talons.
Mages fury has the same problems every execute has in 1.6 - they´re simply not for the slot on your bar compared to other abilities (in pvp that is).
Mines is still crap in pve.
Bound Aegis is essentially a toggle for really lazy ppl as it gives max magica (and dmg therefor) while eating two slots of your bar that could have been filled with active abilities - this one is still a contender for worst skill in the entire game imho.

Don´t get me wrong. I like my sorc its my only "real" (meaning actively) played character. But when you compare the "whole package" to a dk or nb in terms of variety and synergies offerd i still feel the class has a looong way to go.

Jahosefat

Derra wrote: »

Bound Aegis is essentially a toggle for really lazy ppl as it gives max magica (and dmg therefor) while eating two slots of your bar that could have been filled with active abilities - this one is still a contender for worst skill in the entire game imho.

OMG thank you. I've just been bewildered by some people's perception of things.

exiledtyrant

Is the 200+ weapon or spell power from magic/stamina gained that a sorc would get from using bound armor really that bad? I've seen most builds only using 1-3 actual attacks to begin with. The rest filling utility or or passive buff slots. With that and the new 2% spell damage per sorcerer ability passive encouraging more sorc spells I'm not sure what could give more raw damage.

pppontus

Derra wrote: »

While i agree with you on the pve efficiency of the class in 1.6 @pppontus you can´t be serious when you´re claiming the sorc has awesome abilities when compared to a DK or NB. They (the sorc abilities) are ok and serve their purpose.

Still shattering prison is a million times worse than talons.
Mages fury has the same problems every execute has in 1.6 - they´re simply not for the slot on your bar compared to other abilities (in pvp that is).
Mines is still crap in pve.
Bound Aegis is essentially a toggle for really lazy ppl as it gives max magica (and dmg therefor) while eating two slots of your bar that could have been filled with active abilities - this one is still a contender for worst skill in the entire game imho.

Don´t get me wrong. I like my sorc its my only "real" (meaning actively) played character. But when you compare the "whole package" to a dk or nb in terms of variety and synergies offerd i still feel the class has a looong way to go.

A lot of skills look completely useless but have their uses in specific areas. My most useless skill #1 would be Shadow Cloak, in PvP I have no use for it and in PvE I have no use for it.. hence it's useless (or wait?). Bound Armor is definitely useful for Magicka stacking builds, which for example was one of the first Sorc builds released. Personally, I'd rather have an active skill instead, but the skill will be used by certain builds in PvE - we know this already. My point is, you can't just go around saying that skills are useless because they have no use to you. You need to look at a much bigger picture than that.

Mages Fury - if you suggested to the PvE sorcs to remove this because it's useless in PvP, well you can guess what kind of response you're going to get.

In 1.5 I would agree that the Sorc package was a bit dull and didn't have much to offer, but after expirementing extensively on the PTS there is no end to how many different skills I want to play with. In comparison the Nightblade is far more boring, with very few skills that are interesting, and many of the previously useful passives are nullified. And the DK & Templar feels as good as it always has.

Maybe I'm still a little bit in the "honeymoon" phase with the new Sorc changes but I absolutely love it. Even stuff like soloing spellscar is enjoyable because of how many toys we have. Especially with Valkyn Skoria.

I'm excited to try some PvP on it when the patch launches as well, but I haven't on the PTS so my only experience there is a few duels in 1.6.1 whereafter I decided never to duel a Sorc again because I could never take a % out of their HP with my Melee build. I could absolutely wreck the DKs though, so I guess that's something.

Tankqull

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have no idea how keep and zerg fights will evolve.

25% stamina melees, 60%+ bow users , a hand full of lightarmor healers trying to survive out of bow range...

With the new stamina heal stacking from multiple sources on one target (atleast thats what i took from ts conversation in my guild - did not test myself) i don´t know if light armor healers will be required

the stamina heal is ~as effective as healing springs. so you are in need of a templar thats capable to burst heal and that simply does not work in medium or heavy armor(unless you are at 3600 cps).

Derra

pppontus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

While i agree with you on the pve efficiency of the class in 1.6 @pppontus you can´t be serious when you´re claiming the sorc has awesome abilities when compared to a DK or NB. They (the sorc abilities) are ok and serve their purpose.

Still shattering prison is a million times worse than talons.
Mages fury has the same problems every execute has in 1.6 - they´re simply not for the slot on your bar compared to other abilities (in pvp that is).
Mines is still crap in pve.
Bound Aegis is essentially a toggle for really lazy ppl as it gives max magica (and dmg therefor) while eating two slots of your bar that could have been filled with active abilities - this one is still a contender for worst skill in the entire game imho.

Don´t get me wrong. I like my sorc its my only "real" (meaning actively) played character. But when you compare the "whole package" to a dk or nb in terms of variety and synergies offerd i still feel the class has a looong way to go.

A lot of skills look completely useless but have their uses in specific areas. My most useless skill #1 would be Shadow Cloak, in PvP I have no use for it and in PvE I have no use for it.. hence it's useless (or wait?). Bound Armor is definitely useful for Magicka stacking builds, which for example was one of the first Sorc builds released. Personally, I'd rather have an active skill instead, but the skill will be used by certain builds in PvE - we know this already. My point is, you can't just go around saying that skills are useless because they have no use to you. You need to look at a much bigger picture than that.

Mages Fury - if you suggested to the PvE sorcs to remove this because it's useless in PvP, well you can guess what kind of response you're going to get.

In 1.5 I would agree that the Sorc package was a bit dull and didn't have much to offer, but after expirementing extensively on the PTS there is no end to how many different skills I want to play with. In comparison the Nightblade is far more boring, with very few skills that are interesting, and many of the previously useful passives are nullified. And the DK & Templar feels as good as it always has.

Maybe I'm still a little bit in the "honeymoon" phase with the new Sorc changes but I absolutely love it. Even stuff like soloing spellscar is enjoyable because of how many toys we have. Especially with Valkyn Skoria.

I'm excited to try some PvP on it when the patch launches as well, but I haven't on the PTS so my only experience there is a few duels in 1.6.1 whereafter I decided never to duel a Sorc again because I could never take a % out of their HP with my Melee build. I could absolutely wreck the DKs though, so I guess that's something.

Shadow cloak is a prime example i specifically did not cite bc it´s that controversial. If it was really as bad as some people would want you to believe one would not see it as frequently used in pvp - i can´t see the use in pve though.

However i did not state bound aegis (or armor in general) was useless (it is in 1.5). I said bound armor is a terrible excuse of a skill. It is the epitome of a badly designed skill in eso. It basically is an ugly (debatable) otherwise unobtainable armor skin on your char that gives you 8% of your primary dmg resource (the added armor / spellresi is absolutely neglectable). As i said: It will have its use.

I did not say to remove mages fure. Compared to other finishers i find it subpar even for pve - better than nothing is the name of the game here.

I don´t know about nightblades in 1.6 - did not test them. However they atleast offered a great combination of skills in 1.5.

On a sidenote: I find i funny that you´re so in love with valkyn skoria lightning flood, storm armor procc fishing (caltrops). Would i have been lucky enough to get atleast 1 light armor piece of the set (50+ runs about 10 dailies missed since release) this would have been my grp-pvp setup.
Tried it a couple of times it was nice even in 1.5

Derra

Tankqull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have no idea how keep and zerg fights will evolve.

25% stamina melees, 60%+ bow users , a hand full of lightarmor healers trying to survive out of bow range...

With the new stamina heal stacking from multiple sources on one target (atleast thats what i took from ts conversation in my guild - did not test myself) i don´t know if light armor healers will be required

the stamina heal is ~as effective as healing springs. so you are in need of a templar thats capable to burst heal and that simply does not work in medium or heavy armor(unless you are at 3600 cps).

The stamina heal might be as effective as healing springs on paper - the difference is that its not ground but character based (though negate is less of an issue silence still is). If you got enough healers stacking it on your grp you get basically 15k+ hps on every member of the grp. There is no need for burst heal in that scenario. Either you´re dead in under a second - a case where no templar in the world will save you - or your going to stay at max hp.
This obviously only matters for groups of a certain size that can support 4 or 5 players spamming vigor...

seanvwolf

asteldian wrote: »

I consider it more a buff - doesn't it giv 3% to everyone on that target and isn't it just from casting a dark magic spell which activates it for 20s? The previous version was very limited use as almost no one had a duration dark magic spell slotted

What? Negate and Rune Cage have always been frequent slots on my bar and they last awhile. Yes, it is 3% to everyone on the target, but to get a similar effect, you'd have to have a minimum of 5 casters targetting one enemy. Unlikely in PvP and impossible in 4 man dungeons.

I used to rune cage and flurry enemies one at a time and it worked great because I could attain 92% crit against them with the exploitation passive. Now, I can't even come close to those numbers. It is a trials group buff (only), but definitely a single player nerf.

Tankqull

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have no idea how keep and zerg fights will evolve.

25% stamina melees, 60%+ bow users , a hand full of lightarmor healers trying to survive out of bow range...

With the new stamina heal stacking from multiple sources on one target (atleast thats what i took from ts conversation in my guild - did not test myself) i don´t know if light armor healers will be required

the stamina heal is ~as effective as healing springs. so you are in need of a templar thats capable to burst heal and that simply does not work in medium or heavy armor(unless you are at 3600 cps).

The stamina heal might be as effective as healing springs on paper - the difference is that its not ground but character based (though negate is less of an issue silence still is). If you got enough healers stacking it on your grp you get basically 15k+ hps on every member of the grp. There is no need for burst heal in that scenario. Either you´re dead in under a second - a case where no templar in the world will save you - or your going to stay at max hp.
This obviously only matters for groups of a certain size that can support 4 or 5 players spamming vigor...

and while comming together to apply it on your grp everybody is standing in a nice amount of gtaes ;D dealing 20k+ dps on every body while your heals only affect 6 players - it is definatly a really powerfull heal but its not going to substitute a dedicated healer.

Artemiisia

im leveling an DK right now and im steamrolling everything with it, from normal easy dungeons, to dolmens, world bosses and now I just cleaned out forgotten crypts public dungeon solo, even the group challenge I did alone with a DK of same level.

many of these was impossible with my sorcerer, now you think Im about to complain about that, hell no I did the content hardmode style where, DKs are easy mode, takes little to no skill to do any pve content what so ever with them.

Derra

Tankqull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have no idea how keep and zerg fights will evolve.

25% stamina melees, 60%+ bow users , a hand full of lightarmor healers trying to survive out of bow range...

With the new stamina heal stacking from multiple sources on one target (atleast thats what i took from ts conversation in my guild - did not test myself) i don´t know if light armor healers will be required

the stamina heal is ~as effective as healing springs. so you are in need of a templar thats capable to burst heal and that simply does not work in medium or heavy armor(unless you are at 3600 cps).

The stamina heal might be as effective as healing springs on paper - the difference is that its not ground but character based (though negate is less of an issue silence still is). If you got enough healers stacking it on your grp you get basically 15k+ hps on every member of the grp. There is no need for burst heal in that scenario. Either you´re dead in under a second - a case where no templar in the world will save you - or your going to stay at max hp.
This obviously only matters for groups of a certain size that can support 4 or 5 players spamming vigor...

and while comming together to apply it on your grp everybody is standing in a nice amount of gtaes ;D dealing 20k+ dps on every body while your heals only affect 6 players - it is definatly a really powerfull heal but its not going to substitute a dedicated healer.

The mistake is thinking a dk with igneous shield and vigor is NOT a dedicated healer...

Also the incoming aoe dmg won´t be high enough to counter that. It just does not add up especially with ultimate spam basically gone from the euquasion.

Tankqull

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have no idea how keep and zerg fights will evolve.

25% stamina melees, 60%+ bow users , a hand full of lightarmor healers trying to survive out of bow range...

With the new stamina heal stacking from multiple sources on one target (atleast thats what i took from ts conversation in my guild - did not test myself) i don´t know if light armor healers will be required

the stamina heal is ~as effective as healing springs. so you are in need of a templar thats capable to burst heal and that simply does not work in medium or heavy armor(unless you are at 3600 cps).

The stamina heal might be as effective as healing springs on paper - the difference is that its not ground but character based (though negate is less of an issue silence still is). If you got enough healers stacking it on your grp you get basically 15k+ hps on every member of the grp. There is no need for burst heal in that scenario. Either you´re dead in under a second - a case where no templar in the world will save you - or your going to stay at max hp.
This obviously only matters for groups of a certain size that can support 4 or 5 players spamming vigor...

and while comming together to apply it on your grp everybody is standing in a nice amount of gtaes ;D dealing 20k+ dps on every body while your heals only affect 6 players - it is definatly a really powerfull heal but its not going to substitute a dedicated healer.

The mistake is thinking a dk with igneous shield and vigor is NOT a dedicated healer...

Also the incoming aoe dmg won´t be high enough to counter that. It just does not add up especially with ultimate spam basically gone from the euquasion.

im not sure currently but is igneous shield changed to be a stam ability? otherwise the 6sec buffduration of it forcing the dk to spam it regularily will drain his magica in a heartbeat if he´s not wearing light armor.
and do not understimate the strength of multiple gtaes wich you will see in a zerg situation.

rfennell_ESO

Is this the thread we tell lies in?

I created the rotary engine.

Sorcs are op.

TheMachineKiller

As a sorc myself, just learn to play the class better. Test different abilities, different combos, i.e. destro/restro, destro/1h, etc. Talk to people in game, ask skilled sorcs who are better than you, watch youtube videos of different sorcs out there, and be open minded to change your build always.

pppontus

Derra wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

While i agree with you on the pve efficiency of the class in 1.6 @pppontus you can´t be serious when you´re claiming the sorc has awesome abilities when compared to a DK or NB. They (the sorc abilities) are ok and serve their purpose.

Still shattering prison is a million times worse than talons.
Mages fury has the same problems every execute has in 1.6 - they´re simply not for the slot on your bar compared to other abilities (in pvp that is).
Mines is still crap in pve.
Bound Aegis is essentially a toggle for really lazy ppl as it gives max magica (and dmg therefor) while eating two slots of your bar that could have been filled with active abilities - this one is still a contender for worst skill in the entire game imho.

Don´t get me wrong. I like my sorc its my only "real" (meaning actively) played character. But when you compare the "whole package" to a dk or nb in terms of variety and synergies offerd i still feel the class has a looong way to go.

A lot of skills look completely useless but have their uses in specific areas. My most useless skill #1 would be Shadow Cloak, in PvP I have no use for it and in PvE I have no use for it.. hence it's useless (or wait?). Bound Armor is definitely useful for Magicka stacking builds, which for example was one of the first Sorc builds released. Personally, I'd rather have an active skill instead, but the skill will be used by certain builds in PvE - we know this already. My point is, you can't just go around saying that skills are useless because they have no use to you. You need to look at a much bigger picture than that.

Mages Fury - if you suggested to the PvE sorcs to remove this because it's useless in PvP, well you can guess what kind of response you're going to get.

In 1.5 I would agree that the Sorc package was a bit dull and didn't have much to offer, but after expirementing extensively on the PTS there is no end to how many different skills I want to play with. In comparison the Nightblade is far more boring, with very few skills that are interesting, and many of the previously useful passives are nullified. And the DK & Templar feels as good as it always has.

Maybe I'm still a little bit in the "honeymoon" phase with the new Sorc changes but I absolutely love it. Even stuff like soloing spellscar is enjoyable because of how many toys we have. Especially with Valkyn Skoria.

I'm excited to try some PvP on it when the patch launches as well, but I haven't on the PTS so my only experience there is a few duels in 1.6.1 whereafter I decided never to duel a Sorc again because I could never take a % out of their HP with my Melee build. I could absolutely wreck the DKs though, so I guess that's something.

Shadow cloak is a prime example i specifically did not cite bc it´s that controversial. If it was really as bad as some people would want you to believe one would not see it as frequently used in pvp - i can´t see the use in pve though.

However i did not state bound aegis (or armor in general) was useless (it is in 1.5). I said bound armor is a terrible excuse of a skill. It is the epitome of a badly designed skill in eso. It basically is an ugly (debatable) otherwise unobtainable armor skin on your char that gives you 8% of your primary dmg resource (the added armor / spellresi is absolutely neglectable). As i said: It will have its use.

I did not say to remove mages fure. Compared to other finishers i find it subpar even for pve - better than nothing is the name of the game here.

I don´t know about nightblades in 1.6 - did not test them. However they atleast offered a great combination of skills in 1.5.

On a sidenote: I find i funny that you´re so in love with valkyn skoria lightning flood, storm armor procc fishing (caltrops). Would i have been lucky enough to get atleast 1 light armor piece of the set (50+ runs about 10 dailies missed since release) this would have been my grp-pvp setup.
Tried it a couple of times it was nice even in 1.5

Well, I'm using medium+heavy valkyn now for the extra armor + undaunted passives (and because I'm too lazy to farm more anyway). Sometimes your unlucky RNG drops get good all of a sudden..

Derra

pppontus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

While i agree with you on the pve efficiency of the class in 1.6 @pppontus you can´t be serious when you´re claiming the sorc has awesome abilities when compared to a DK or NB. They (the sorc abilities) are ok and serve their purpose.

Still shattering prison is a million times worse than talons.
Mages fury has the same problems every execute has in 1.6 - they´re simply not for the slot on your bar compared to other abilities (in pvp that is).
Mines is still crap in pve.
Bound Aegis is essentially a toggle for really lazy ppl as it gives max magica (and dmg therefor) while eating two slots of your bar that could have been filled with active abilities - this one is still a contender for worst skill in the entire game imho.

Don´t get me wrong. I like my sorc its my only "real" (meaning actively) played character. But when you compare the "whole package" to a dk or nb in terms of variety and synergies offerd i still feel the class has a looong way to go.

A lot of skills look completely useless but have their uses in specific areas. My most useless skill #1 would be Shadow Cloak, in PvP I have no use for it and in PvE I have no use for it.. hence it's useless (or wait?). Bound Armor is definitely useful for Magicka stacking builds, which for example was one of the first Sorc builds released. Personally, I'd rather have an active skill instead, but the skill will be used by certain builds in PvE - we know this already. My point is, you can't just go around saying that skills are useless because they have no use to you. You need to look at a much bigger picture than that.

Mages Fury - if you suggested to the PvE sorcs to remove this because it's useless in PvP, well you can guess what kind of response you're going to get.

In 1.5 I would agree that the Sorc package was a bit dull and didn't have much to offer, but after expirementing extensively on the PTS there is no end to how many different skills I want to play with. In comparison the Nightblade is far more boring, with very few skills that are interesting, and many of the previously useful passives are nullified. And the DK & Templar feels as good as it always has.

Maybe I'm still a little bit in the "honeymoon" phase with the new Sorc changes but I absolutely love it. Even stuff like soloing spellscar is enjoyable because of how many toys we have. Especially with Valkyn Skoria.

I'm excited to try some PvP on it when the patch launches as well, but I haven't on the PTS so my only experience there is a few duels in 1.6.1 whereafter I decided never to duel a Sorc again because I could never take a % out of their HP with my Melee build. I could absolutely wreck the DKs though, so I guess that's something.

Shadow cloak is a prime example i specifically did not cite bc it´s that controversial. If it was really as bad as some people would want you to believe one would not see it as frequently used in pvp - i can´t see the use in pve though.

However i did not state bound aegis (or armor in general) was useless (it is in 1.5). I said bound armor is a terrible excuse of a skill. It is the epitome of a badly designed skill in eso. It basically is an ugly (debatable) otherwise unobtainable armor skin on your char that gives you 8% of your primary dmg resource (the added armor / spellresi is absolutely neglectable). As i said: It will have its use.

I did not say to remove mages fure. Compared to other finishers i find it subpar even for pve - better than nothing is the name of the game here.

I don´t know about nightblades in 1.6 - did not test them. However they atleast offered a great combination of skills in 1.5.

On a sidenote: I find i funny that you´re so in love with valkyn skoria lightning flood, storm armor procc fishing (caltrops). Would i have been lucky enough to get atleast 1 light armor piece of the set (50+ runs about 10 dailies missed since release) this would have been my grp-pvp setup.
Tried it a couple of times it was nice even in 1.5

Well, I'm using medium+heavy valkyn now for the extra armor + undaunted passives (and because I'm too lazy to farm more anyway). Sometimes your unlucky RNG drops get good all of a sudden..

I will always despise my rng luck with double medium sturdy for valkyn

Tankqull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have no idea how keep and zerg fights will evolve.

25% stamina melees, 60%+ bow users , a hand full of lightarmor healers trying to survive out of bow range...

With the new stamina heal stacking from multiple sources on one target (atleast thats what i took from ts conversation in my guild - did not test myself) i don´t know if light armor healers will be required

the stamina heal is ~as effective as healing springs. so you are in need of a templar thats capable to burst heal and that simply does not work in medium or heavy armor(unless you are at 3600 cps).

The stamina heal might be as effective as healing springs on paper - the difference is that its not ground but character based (though negate is less of an issue silence still is). If you got enough healers stacking it on your grp you get basically 15k+ hps on every member of the grp. There is no need for burst heal in that scenario. Either you´re dead in under a second - a case where no templar in the world will save you - or your going to stay at max hp.
This obviously only matters for groups of a certain size that can support 4 or 5 players spamming vigor...

and while comming together to apply it on your grp everybody is standing in a nice amount of gtaes ;D dealing 20k+ dps on every body while your heals only affect 6 players - it is definatly a really powerfull heal but its not going to substitute a dedicated healer.

The mistake is thinking a dk with igneous shield and vigor is NOT a dedicated healer...

Also the incoming aoe dmg won´t be high enough to counter that. It just does not add up especially with ultimate spam basically gone from the euquasion.

im not sure currently but is igneous shield changed to be a stam ability? otherwise the 6sec buffduration of it forcing the dk to spam it regularily will drain his magica in a heartbeat if he´s not wearing light armor.
and do not understimate the strength of multiple gtaes wich you will see in a zerg situation.

3x spellcost reduction on jewelry will do the trick here.
I would not be too confident in the power of aoes in 1.6. Healing output outweights this by far (no longer stackable heal debuffs - less ultis specially negates) unless the offense is almost perfectly coordinated (thanks to smart healing).

Gyudan

Jahosefat wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Bound Aegis is essentially a toggle for really lazy ppl as it gives max magica (and dmg therefor) while eating two slots of your bar that could have been filled with active abilities - this one is still a contender for worst skill in the entire game imho.

OMG thank you. I've just been bewildered by some people's perception of things.

The main role of Bound Aegis is to hide the ugly Necropotence set without using a disguise. That should be in the tooltip.

Mumyo

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Dark Magic > Exploitation Live gives 15% crit to any target affected by dark magic 15% CRIT

PTS Dark Magic> Exploitation Now increasing spell crit by 629. For a whopping... 3% EXTRA CRIT. K THX ZOS Can i just get a free class change to DK or NB

LOL button.

The critstacking was taken from every class, i had tons of nerfs in that direction as templar.

I wanna see you reroll and realise that it wasnt the class that was bad.

Derra wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

Moderate this:

Sorcerer is the strongest class if used well. its fact. test it like others. a lot using sorc and beating anyone exept some (really few) DK. Just need to use well.

And even if you are bad with sorc, you can make a build, to survive anyone.

So sorc nerfed? Dont joke.

Sorc is probably op in low cp duels. DKs with half a brain will still counter you with wings though as double reflect is no longer a real option due to stamina costs. Have to admit that they can´t kill you either if you don´t *** up.
I don´t like the char against high cp opponents but that maybe due to the fact that the whole champ system is nowhere near balanced atm.

However that has nothing to do with open world pvp and as soon as 2 archers open on you its basically over for anyone wearing light armor...
I have no idea how keep and zerg fights will evolve.

I heard they even mentioned that it is far from beeing balanced and shouldnt be *** that way yet. (yeah.. zos logic offering 3.6k CP).

And yeah. looking forward to instantly die as templar healer but i have to try the armor trait first.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

Dracane wrote: »

But wall of elements now procs every 0,5 seconds, instead of 1 second. So it is twice as effective as before.
So maybe this is a small excuse ^^

False, it has been proven mathematicaly and with videos Wall of Element deals about 50% less DpS. The total damage is reduced with the attribute conversion, the duration is almost twice as long making the damage drop even further and you can't stack them (which I don't remember you could on 1.5).

Cody

well a sorc kicked my a** about 4 times in a row today; he used a combo of daedric mines, relentless damage shield spam(i break them down, he always put another up) crushing shock, bolt escape, and something else.....

he did pretty well; but then again it was with all 3600 CPs, so its not a reliable source of info.

Tankqull

Cody wrote: »

well a sorc kicked my a** about 4 times in a row today; he used a combo of daedric mines, relentless damage shield spam(i break them down, he always put another up) crushing shock, bolt escape, and something else.....

he did pretty well; but then again it was with all 3600 CPs, so its not a reliable source of info.

use your class gap closer all of them ignore due to their animation deadric mines all the time if the sorc is not standing literally inside of them.
if you are a dk its fiery grip as it now ports you towards your target if it cant be pulled.

Vis

Tankqull wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

well a sorc kicked my a** about 4 times in a row today; he used a combo of daedric mines, relentless damage shield spam(i break them down, he always put another up) crushing shock, bolt escape, and something else.....

he did pretty well; but then again it was with all 3600 CPs, so its not a reliable source of info.

all of them ignore due to their animation deadric mines all the time if the sorc is not standing literally inside of them.
if you are a dk its fiery grip as it now ports you towards your target if it cant be pulled.

If you are a dk, it's super easy. Just range him while spamming scales and laughing all the way.

xaraan

asteldian wrote: »

I consider it more a buff - doesn't it giv 3% to everyone on that target and isn't it just from casting a dark magic spell which activates it for 20s? The previous version was very limited use as almost no one had a duration dark magic spell slotted

Don't bring logic into the discussion, that's crazy.

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO

Actually i just found out the most OP set up for sorcs on the pts

Mumyo wrote: »

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Dark Magic > Exploitation Live gives 15% crit to any target affected by dark magic 15% CRIT

PTS Dark Magic> Exploitation Now increasing spell crit by 629. For a whopping... 3% EXTRA CRIT. K THX ZOS Can i just get a free class change to DK or NB

LOL button.

The critstacking was taken from every class, i had tons of nerfs in that direction as templar.

I wanna see you reroll and realise that it wasnt the class that was bad.

Derra wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

Moderate this:

Sorcerer is the strongest class if used well. its fact. test it like others. a lot using sorc and beating anyone exept some (really few) DK. Just need to use well.

And even if you are bad with sorc, you can make a build, to survive anyone.

So sorc nerfed? Dont joke.

Sorc is probably op in low cp duels. DKs with half a brain will still counter you with wings though as double reflect is no longer a real option due to stamina costs. Have to admit that they can´t kill you either if you don´t *** up.
I don´t like the char against high cp opponents but that maybe due to the fact that the whole champ system is nowhere near balanced atm.

However that has nothing to do with open world pvp and as soon as 2 archers open on you its basically over for anyone wearing light armor...
I have no idea how keep and zerg fights will evolve.

I heard they even mentioned that it is far from beeing balanced and shouldnt be *** that way yet. (yeah.. zos logic offering 3.6k CP).

And yeah. looking forward to instantly die as templar healer but i have to try the armor trait first.

pretty sure you're bad, who opens sentence with " lol button " are you 9 or something?