Another Sorc Nerf .

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO

Dark Magic > Exploitation Live gives 15% crit to any target affected by dark magic 15% CRIT

PTS Dark Magic> Exploitation Now increasing spell crit by 629. For a whopping... 3% EXTRA CRIT. K THX ZOS Can i just get a free class change to DK or NB

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Good, we are way to powerful, no challenge.

Derra

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Good, we are way to powerful, no challenge.

That lol button is gone mate. Just sayin

pppontus

Would be much fun if the Sorcs got their class change and only to realise the other classes aren't as good as they think, they don't play themselves you know.

A good Sorc can do good dps on live too. Minimum 1,2K, up to 1,4K at least. Heck, a friend who's way better than me did 1,4K the entire Mantikora fight.

On the PTS Sorc is even better, but it's a lot more complicated to play so it'll be even worse for less skilled players, but then again I think all the classes are the same. You just need to be good at them and have a good build. 1.6 is going to make a large gap between skilled players and not so skilled players, but that's really all.

I've only spent a few hours on the PTS with my Sorc so it's going to get so much better, but this is what I have come up with so far: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-sorceress-petless-by-pppontus-70-cp/

ToRelax

Wow, that took some time to discover "another sorc nerf" that of course was not in game since 1.60 ...

asteldian

I consider it more a buff - doesn't it giv 3% to everyone on that target and isn't it just from casting a dark magic spell which activates it for 20s? The previous version was very limited use as almost no one had a duration dark magic spell slotted

Crowzer

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Good, we are way to powerful, no challenge.

I'm agree with you.

Seraphyel

I think the whole crit-thing is due to the changes to the whole stat.

pppontus

asteldian wrote: »

I consider it more a buff - doesn't it giv 3% to everyone on that target and isn't it just from casting a dark magic spell which activates it for 20s? The previous version was very limited use as almost no one had a duration dark magic spell slotted

I think you're right, this was there already in the first version of 1.6 if I remember correctly, I remember talking about it and it seems like a nice bonus. As long as you have a sorc in a raid everyone has a little more crit, pretty much ^^

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO

asteldian wrote: »

I consider it more a buff - doesn't it giv 3% to everyone on that target and isn't it just from casting a dark magic spell which activates it for 20s? The previous version was very limited use as almost no one had a duration dark magic spell slotted

a buff? are you serious? 12% crit gone. Daedric Curse was affected by it when knocking a person down with Crystal fragment. In pve i used shattering prison and wall of elements to aoe entire groups. with 60%+ crit. In pvp anyone who didnt break out of the root would get hit by my 150+ Wall of Elements and lightning flood aoes.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Derra wrote: »

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Good, we are way to powerful, no challenge.

That lol button is gone mate. Just sayin

But he inisghtful one isn't ... mate.

Digiman

pppontus wrote: »

Would be much fun if the Sorcs got their class change and only to realise the other classes aren't as good as they think, they don't play themselves you know.

A good Sorc can do good dps on live too. Minimum 1,2K, up to 1,4K at least. Heck, a friend who's way better than me did 1,4K the entire Mantikora fight.

On the PTS Sorc is even better, but it's a lot more complicated to play so it'll be even worse for less skilled players, but then again I think all the classes are the same. You just need to be good at them and have a good build. 1.6 is going to make a large gap between skilled players and not so skilled players, but that's really all.

I've only spent a few hours on the PTS with my Sorc so it's going to get so much better, but this is what I have come up with so far: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-sorceress-petless-by-pppontus-70-cp/

I swear to god if he is either a shield spammer pet user, or some sword and shield user I am gonna scream. Sorcerers aren't doing well most of our abilities are broken and never used competitively. Those links only have 4 skills that belong to sorcerers, that is 2 on each bar and one with an ultimate.

The other is a potion chugger build. It says it looks promising but is very problematic with DPS bottlenecking. They also say they aren't really experienced with rotations either. Plus in the video she dies just after the target goes. Not very worthwhile especially considering the survivability and damage output of others.

pppontus

Digiman wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Would be much fun if the Sorcs got their class change and only to realise the other classes aren't as good as they think, they don't play themselves you know.

A good Sorc can do good dps on live too. Minimum 1,2K, up to 1,4K at least. Heck, a friend who's way better than me did 1,4K the entire Mantikora fight.

On the PTS Sorc is even better, but it's a lot more complicated to play so it'll be even worse for less skilled players, but then again I think all the classes are the same. You just need to be good at them and have a good build. 1.6 is going to make a large gap between skilled players and not so skilled players, but that's really all.

I've only spent a few hours on the PTS with my Sorc so it's going to get so much better, but this is what I have come up with so far: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-sorceress-petless-by-pppontus-70-cp/

I swear to god if he is either a shield spammer pet user, or some sword and shield user I am gonna scream. Sorcerers aren't doing well most of our abilities are broken and never used competitively. Those links only have 4 skills that belong to sorcerers, that is 2 on each bar and one with an ultimate.

The other is a potion chugger build. It says it looks promising but is very problematic with DPS bottlenecking. They also say they aren't really experienced with rotations either. Plus in the video she dies just after the target goes. Not very worthwhile especially considering the survivability and damage output of others.

It's my build btw. How many class skills do you think 2H build use? That's not really an argument.

And yes, it is hard to solo a "miniboss" in 12-man content but you shouldn't take that as any indication of survivability, because that's not how the build is supposed to be played.

I agree, biggest problem is that the build doesn't reach it's potential in my test scenarios. The DPS will be much higher once I can get it tested in some group play.

Anyway, if anyone just wanna complain do carry on. Just don't say I didn't try to help. And I won't complain because my Sorc is awesome.

TheBull

45k of mines and 20 second immovable (ward) will destroy you new DK or NB.

klink012

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

asteldian wrote: »

I consider it more a buff - doesn't it giv 3% to everyone on that target and isn't it just from casting a dark magic spell which activates it for 20s? The previous version was very limited use as almost no one had a duration dark magic spell slotted

a buff? are you serious? 12% crit gone. Daedric Curse was affected by it when knocking a person down with Crystal fragment. In pve i used shattering prison and wall of elements to aoe entire groups. with 60%+ crit. In pvp anyone who didnt break out of the root would get hit by my 150+ Wall of Elements and lightning flood aoes.

Destruction Staff nerf as well. You can only have 1 wall of elements up at a time... Not sure what they were thinking there, but its a worthless skill now.

manny254

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Dark Magic > Exploitation Live gives 15% crit to any target affected by dark magic 15% CRIT

PTS Dark Magic> Exploitation Now increasing spell crit by 629. For a whopping... 3% EXTRA CRIT. K THX ZOS Can i just get a free class change to DK or NB

Let them give you a class change. In a week you will want to go back. The grass is always greener on the other side.

Dracane

klink012 wrote: »

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

asteldian wrote: »

I consider it more a buff - doesn't it giv 3% to everyone on that target and isn't it just from casting a dark magic spell which activates it for 20s? The previous version was very limited use as almost no one had a duration dark magic spell slotted

a buff? are you serious? 12% crit gone. Daedric Curse was affected by it when knocking a person down with Crystal fragment. In pve i used shattering prison and wall of elements to aoe entire groups. with 60%+ crit. In pvp anyone who didnt break out of the root would get hit by my 150+ Wall of Elements and lightning flood aoes.

Destruction Staff nerf as well. You can only have 1 wall of elements up at a time... Not sure what they were thinking there, but its a worthless skill now.

But wall of elements now procs every 0,5 seconds, instead of 1 second. So it is twice as effective as before.
So maybe this is a small excuse ^^

And by the way. Exploitation increased the crit chance by 15%, not added 15%.
So if you had 30% base crit chance, you would receive around 4% more crit chance and Exploitation was too situational.

Snit

Yeah - I don't think this is a bug or a nerf, so much as a change in the way tooltips display information.

Joy_Division

ToRelax wrote: »

Wow, that took some time to discover "another sorc nerf" that of course was not in game since 1.60 ...

There are so many nerfs that it is hard to keep track of them.

Kypho

Moderate this:

Sorcerer is the strongest class if used well. its fact. test it like others. a lot using sorc and beating anyone exept some (really few) DK. Just need to use well.

And even if you are bad with sorc, you can make a build, to survive anyone.

So sorc nerfed? Dont joke.

Dracane

Kypho wrote: »

Moderate this:

Sorcerer is the strongest class if used well. its fact. test it like others. a lot using sorc and beating anyone exept some (really few) DK. Just need to use well.

And even if you are bad with sorc, you can make a build, to survive anyone.

So sorc nerfed? Dont joke.

What ? O.o okay.....

Messy1

At first I was swept up by all the threads on the forum that sorcs have been nerfed, but with 1.6 we are really dealing with a different stat system and it remains to be seen how effective or ineffective the sorc is going to be. I doubt many have had time to extensively test the sorc changes, and if someone has please speak up, especially with some of the combinations that will be possible with CPs.

I did play my sorc a little bit after the character copy but before the template and he seemed to be faring well in the new environment. I also agree that sorc takes more skill to play well than other classes, but I also realize that the skill level required to play a great character for any class is also pretty high so sorcs can't make too many excuses there.

pppontus

Messy1 wrote: »

At first I was swept up by all the threads on the forum that sorcs have been nerfed, but with 1.6 we are really dealing with a different stat system and it remains to be seen how effective or ineffective the sorc is going to be. I doubt many have had time to extensively test the sorc changes, and if someone has please speak up, especially with some of the combinations that will be possible with CPs.

I did play my sorc a little bit after the character copy but before the template and he seemed to be faring well in the new environment. I also agree that sorc takes more skill to play well than other classes, but I also realize that the skill level required to play a great character for any class is also pretty high so sorcs can't make too many excuses there.

I agree with you fully. Spent some time testing my different characters and the one I really fell in love with the changes on is my Sorcerer, so I ended up almost only testing on that one. You can see some of my progress (PVE) at TF: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-sorceress-petless-by-pppontus-70-cp/

In the end we won't know much about class balance before 1.6 has been live for a month or so. That's when we will see how they fare in trial fights, pvp and vet dungeons etc.

xMovingTarget

Sorc is up top. You need to stop. More buffs arnt needed for sorcs. In 1.6.4 the Sorc is stronger than ever before.

Jar_Ek

I think that some of the "issues" with 1.6 sorcerers are the perception that they have been somewhat forced into a single role and a couple of specs. Stamina sorcerer has some trouble with the cost of abilities - this may become less of an issue as more champion points are spent. And the perception is that sorcerers must play a pet builds to be competitive... Which is not to everyone's taste... or maybe play some quite specific builds with certain gear sets.

So can a sorcerer be good, yes. Are sorcerers a bit irritated that healing and tank roles have not been (and stamina roles in general) have not been reassessed, yes.

As long as sorcerers can get vet and trial invites and are not the PvP whipping boys, then I expect things wil calm down. But it appears that many people have taken 1.6 as an opportunity to provide feedback on the state of the sorcerer.

Derra

Kypho wrote: »

Moderate this:

Sorcerer is the strongest class if used well. its fact. test it like others. a lot using sorc and beating anyone exept some (really few) DK. Just need to use well.

And even if you are bad with sorc, you can make a build, to survive anyone.

So sorc nerfed? Dont joke.

Sorc is probably op in low cp duels. DKs with half a brain will still counter you with wings though as double reflect is no longer a real option due to stamina costs. Have to admit that they can´t kill you either if you don´t *** up.
I don´t like the char against high cp opponents but that maybe due to the fact that the whole champ system is nowhere near balanced atm.

However that has nothing to do with open world pvp and as soon as 2 archers open on you its basically over for anyone wearing light armor...
I have no idea how keep and zerg fights will evolve.

Tankqull

Derra wrote: »

I have no idea how keep and zerg fights will evolve.

25% stamina melees, 60%+ bow users , a hand full of lightarmor healers trying to survive out of bow range...

Derra

Tankqull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have no idea how keep and zerg fights will evolve.

25% stamina melees, 60%+ bow users , a hand full of lightarmor healers trying to survive out of bow range...

With the new stamina heal stacking from multiple sources on one target (atleast thats what i took from ts conversation in my guild - did not test myself) i don´t know if light armor healers will be required

kkampaseb17_ESO

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have no idea how keep and zerg fights will evolve.

25% stamina melees, 60%+ bow users , a hand full of lightarmor healers trying to survive out of bow range...

With the new stamina heal stacking from multiple sources on one target (atleast thats what i took from ts conversation in my guild - did not test myself) i don´t know if light armor healers will be required

I think it is bound to get fixed at some point one way or another. But at the moment you might be right.

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO

manny254 wrote: »

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Dark Magic > Exploitation Live gives 15% crit to any target affected by dark magic 15% CRIT

PTS Dark Magic> Exploitation Now increasing spell crit by 629. For a whopping... 3% EXTRA CRIT. K THX ZOS Can i just get a free class change to DK or NB

Let them give you a class change. In a week you will want to go back. The grass is always greener on the other side.

as a Dragon Knight i'd just burn the field to Ash.

f047ys3v3n

pppontus wrote: »

Would be much fun if the Sorcs got their class change and only to realise the other classes aren't as good as they think, they don't play themselves you know. [/url]

Have V14 NB and V1 DK.

Do you know what I did on the V1 DK yesterday.... City of Ash hard mode. Honestly, it wasn't a big deal. I didn't feel underpowered. The DK has excellent damage output so that even running a V1 you only give up about 150 DPS vs a similarly geared V14 magica sorc and you actually gain a massive amount of AOE vs the sorc. I know because I have that V14 sorc and both toons have a set of the proper level warlock seducer armor for solo questing. I often wear this on my sorc when I am too lazy to switch the good DPS gear from my NB to do a dungeon.

Love the DK. Even if it didn't do massively better DPS than other classes I would love it. It's abilities are just so well thought out. They synergize well together and there is a proper set for just about every conceivable situation. Sorcerers on the other hand have a summoning line if you want pets that steal heals from the tank and wipe the group, a dark magic line for not CC'ing anything worth CC'ing, and a storm calling line for not doing damage. Realistically, in almost any PVE content you do you will have 1 soc ability on the main bar in crit surge and one on the back bar in negate. Sure you could throw a CC on if you are worried about the trash pulls but it's entirely unnecessary as surge is also your only functional heal and the only stuff you would have trouble healing through will not CC anyway.

I PVP'd the other day and it was so strange to put Sorc skills on my bar. Wow, things worth CCing that actually CC and hmm, this execute does crap damage but because of the way that it procs combined with the curse ability it is quite lethal in PVP provided you have only one target to hit. Problem is, none of this translates to anything useful fighting a boss with a million health. It is my theory that all class balance was tested by devs 1V1-ing each other and so they don't see the issue because sorcs don't do to badly at that.

I should mention that it is a tricky thing to try to balance the sorc. Because the class is so CC heavy you run into the problem that if the ability, say negate, works it can be vastly overpowered. You could make a boss sit down and take a beating for quite a few seconds or dispel his massively damaging floor effect. It would be too powerful so instead, it does nothing. Sorcs have quite a lot in their trees that work this way as they have 4 or 5 CC's. These are all worthless in PVE. Similar balance problems effect the damage abilities but going the other direction. The combination of Curse, Fury is a go to in PVP but does not do much for PVE as the overall damage output is very low. The reason it is good in PVP is that the curse can proc the fury so that it surprises the enemy and wipes out like 40% of their health in one go. They thought they had plenty of time to pop dragon blood or breath but in fact did not. Now, imagine if these abilities were scaled to actually be viable in PVE. They would not take 40% of health now but 65%. Talk about oppressive, enemies would have to keep their health at 100% at all times just to be safe. The pets are another problem as if they did real DPS for PVE, people would just send them off the keep wall to annoy and wreak havoc in PVP. As such they are just scaled so low they don't do much of anything. Do you see the problem? It is the type of skill that sorcs have that makes it hard to make work in PVP and PVE. This same problem effects to some extent NB's with dark cloak as, if it worked, it would be the most powerful skill in the game, an automatic escape button. The solution is to simply make the skills not function at all. DK's and Templars simply have fewer of these type skills and so they basically work. I'm not saying it can't be done. Certainly Sorcs could be given say and instant cast version of crystal shards that would be weavable but not knock down. Boom, they would be viable again since their single target dps would now be the highest. This would not make them a good class. They would still be hollow as you would really only add this one skill to the bar in place of crushing shock and run basically the same bar for everything. This contrasted with a DK that that might have a tank, AOE, single target, and solo bar all with different skills. The sorc would at least make leaderboards in this scenario and people might not even complain but I am here to tell you that the DK is far more compelling and DPS is only the tip of that iceberg. It's actually a bit amazing that the sorc hasn't gotten some sort of duct tape fix like this.

For what it is worth I would respec my sorc to a templar in a heartbeat. This would give me one of each of the functional classes. I'm sure most people would, and that is why it won't happen.