Request for increasing bank account in The Elder Scrolls Online

SickDuck

Iluvrien wrote: »

TL;DR - Limitations on systems like banks and skill bars force us to make meaningful decisions about what is important to us and our characters. The current limitations are challenging without being impossible. Please, ZOS, do not change this.... and my apologies for the essay.

What is it do with meaningful decisions? Does it really add to the game experience that inventory management is "challenging"? Is it a feature that makes the game more exciting? Then why ZOS is decreasing the type of materials and increasing the stack size? (On the other hand the 5+1 skill system has it's exact purpose and adds to the challenge of the game, but that's nothing to do with inventory management)

I understand that storage should not be limitless (like in other ES games...) but the current structure is not ideal. ZOS created a pretty neat system that many items can be used account wide. The bank serves as a common storage area for all characters on the same account. Except that it can't fulfil its purpose as you can only store fraction of the items that could be used by all characters. You cannot fit all crafting material in the bank for starters. You need to spend decent amount of time logging in alts just to sort items. What is better, having more centralised storage or creating alts with crappy names just to store items that don't fit in the bank?

Even just readjusting bank to bag ratio could improve inventory management a lot. For example the 60 extra slots coming from riding could be added to the bank size not the bag size (I know it sounds stupid, but just for the sake of slot numbers). That would mean a 720 maximum bank size, but only 110(x8) bag size. That would cut down on time people spend rearranging their stuff on multiple alts, and would allow people to play with a single character if they don't fancy to create alts just to serve as mules.

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Don't give me the playstyle excuse. If you have that much junk in your bank and mules, you need to do some selling. If the inventory slots are too expensive, you should do some selling. If it's that important to you, just buy a 2nd account.

Play style is not an excuse, it's a personal thing. You don't tell other people how to play the game. If you can manage with less space, again that's good for you. That does not make you any better or worse, just different. People created this thread to express their wish on getting more storage and it's up to ZOS if they change anything or not. While you did nice maths up there I doubt it would convince many people in this thread that they actually got their wish wrong in the first place and only need a bit more discipline.

I can agree with you on the price. I'm happy with the current pricing just would be happier if I could buy more on top of what we have now. Exception again is the bank to bag ratio, how we need to spend this amount of money. Getting extra bag space is very cheap. You can create 60 extra slots for free by creating an alt (ofc up to 8). Then additional 50 slots for about 40k gold. And then with a bit of patience an additional 60 slots for a mere 15k gold. Adding 10 extra bank slots cost way more than that. This pushes people to create alts first rather than upgrade bank space.

Creating alts just to serve as mules is bad. But creating additional accounts for the same reason is just pathetic. Not because it costs money, as some people here already stated they would buy bank space upgrade for crowns. Because it adds even more clumsiness to the process and also multi-accounts can raise all sorts of problems and anomalies in an MMORPG.

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

There is no way you NEED more 1300 slots on your account.

No NEED, but can be filled easily. What if I want to collect all end game item sets? There's like a hundred out there. All crafted sets in light, medium and heavy as I have alts for each. With matching weapons. Maybe in a few styles, because I like variety. Some of the items might be useful in more than one trait or with different enchantments. You can easily get up to thousands. On my main I have 8 versions of the same ring, each with different enchantments for different occasions, and I don't think that's an extremity. Five dagger, 2 bows and 2 great swords for the same reason. It's very easy to use up the space.

SickDuck

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Exactly right - costs & benefits, risks & rewards, pros & cons. That's how it works in the real world. That real world/ESO symmetry is called realism & immersion. That's what you asked for.

Where's the LOL button when one needs it? Nevermind, I gave an Insightful for that.

First of all this is a game. An MMORPG, not even a survivor/reality/simulation game. Immersion is about it being well constructed that you can engage in it and forget about the real world for a while.

As for reality, noone ever turned me down if I wanted to buy more of a thing. And in reality price per unit usually decreases as you buy more while in the game it does the opposite.

Iluvrien

raffai.tamasb16_ESO wrote: »

First of all this is a game. An MMORPG, not even a survivor/reality/simulation game. Immersion is about it being well constructed that you can engage in it and forget about the real world for a while.

I don't know about you but my level of immersion already takes a bit of a kick when I realise that I can already store enough armour to outfit a 3rd century roman legion... and people are asking for more...

dharbert

There is more than enough bag and bank space in this game. You can have up to 1,600 slots. You are never going to need that many. It is going to cost you, however. Just suck it up and pay the fee like everyone else has. I've maxed out my bank, bags and horses. You can too.

I do every craft on a single character and have almost every armor and weapon set in the entire game that I want, and I still have space left. The players who want more bank and bag space are usually new players that try to craft in every profession at once and hoard every little thing they find even though they will never have a use for it. You are not going to have enough gold right off the bat to max out your bank space. Earn it over time like everyone else has.

With stack sizes being increased to 200, and the number of provisioning items being reduced, bank and bag space is even less of an issue.

Imryll

Amazingly, now that I can look forward to stacks of 200 and have started feeding my Imperial horse, I think that I will eventually have access to sufficient space. However, I would like some personal storage for each character (so that they don't need to carry their personal items with them at all times) and more sophisticated sorting. Scrolling through a lengthy list of crafting materials, including numerous types of runes and plants, when you want to know what cooking ingredients you have on hand is inefficient.

I'd like generally to be better able to organize my inventory.

Also, please make copies of recipes and motif books stack.

Iluvrien

raffai.tamasb16_ESO wrote: »

What is it do with meaningful decisions? Does it really add to the game experience that inventory management is "challenging"? Is it a feature that makes the game more exciting? Then why ZOS is decreasing the type of materials and increasing the stack size? (On the other hand the 5+1 skill system has it's exact purpose and adds to the challenge of the game, but that's nothing to do with inventory management)

Yes, in my opinion it does add to the game experience. It adds a little bit of weight to the "no man is an island" idea (I still hate you John Donne) in that it suggests, somewhat forcefully, that you don't get to do everything by yourself all at the same time. It suggests that you either get help from others or make the hard choices and approach it again later. These are the kind of meaningful decisions I was talking about.

Before the unhelpfulness of ESO CS depleted the guild I am in I relied on guild members to craft what I couldn't, or lend me a stack of materials so I could fill an order, or...or... or... all of these things added to the game experience. I could have done them anyway but having to consider the limited capacity of my bank certainly encouraged the behaviour.

The reason that ZOS is decreasing the number of provisioning materials and increasing stack sizes is because of threads like this. Because there is a section of the playerbase that either cannot or will not work within the current setup. This section has complained loudly and often even since the first days of early access (possibly before, but I wasn't in the betas). I actually think that the changes are good ones. I am under no illusions however that they were required. It will just take a process that was only ever challenging and make it trivial.

raffai.tamasb16_ESO wrote: »

I understand that storage should not be limitless (like in other ES games...) but the current structure is not ideal. ZOS created a pretty neat system that many items can be used account wide. The bank serves as a common storage area for all characters on the same account. Except that it can't fulfil its purpose as you can only store fraction of the items that could be used by all characters. You cannot fit all crafting material in the bank for starters. You need to spend decent amount of time logging in alts just to sort items. What is better, having more centralised storage or creating alts with crappy names just to store items that don't fit in the bank?

You cannot fit all crafting material in the bank? I had better contact the guiness book of records then. I am running one main character with 6 crafts, one trophies alt, and between the bag space available to my character and the account-wide bank space (which isn't even fully upgraded) I am not running short of anything. Apparently I am managing the impossible. Go me!

I think the primary problem with this, for me, if the idea of storing a "fraction of the items that could be used by all characters" rather than a "fraction of the items that are being used by all characters". The current system has allowed me, after some careful decision making, all of the items I have needed and then some. That is why I don't see the wisdom in allowing more storage. Not to invoke a slippery slope argument or anything, but where would it stop? When you think it is a reasonable amount? When I do? When a player who joins in 6 months time does? Surely the best approach is to look at what we are storing as they have been doing (provisioning revamp and stack sizes) rather than how we store it?

raffai.tamasb16_ESO wrote: »

Even just readjusting bank to bag ratio could improve inventory management a lot. For example the 60 extra slots coming from riding could be added to the bank size not the bag size (I know it sounds stupid, but just for the sake of slot numbers). That would mean a 720 maximum bank size, but only 110(x8) bag size. That would cut down on time people spend rearranging their stuff on multiple alts, and would allow people to play with a single character if they don't fancy to create alts just to serve as mules.

Rebalancing is certainly a possibility. I wouldn't be against making the existing number of slots available in different proportions. I am definitely against increasing the total number however.

Rev Rielle

Honestly, it is not a problem at all as far as I see it. People just have to manage themselves a bit better. Just because we can collect something and canstore something doesn't mean the game should make allowances for us to be able to collect and store everything. Additionally as others have said, putting limits on such things actually fosters community interaction, and in an MMO that is important. Finally, if players just simply are unwilling to change the way they horde things in the game they can end up with more than enough storage space across 8 characters. It is just all about priorities.

Armitas

I have 3 mules, 90 items that can't leave my main characters bag space, and a guild bank that I share with 2 others. I'm at 140 or 150 on bank space and it still gets full. Yeah I could use more space.

Imryll

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Honestly, it is not a problem at all as far as I see it. People just have to manage themselves a bit better. Just because we can collect something and canstore something doesn't mean the game should make allowances for us to be able to collect and store everything. Additionally as others have said, putting limits on such things actually fosters community interaction, and in an MMO that is important. Finally, if players just simply are unwilling to change the way they horde things in the game they can end up with more than enough storage space across 8 characters. It is just all about priorities.

Surely, by now it's obvious that folks play this game very differently. For some, it's all about management/progression/competition. For others, it's about exploring characters. You're right that it's all about priorities. Where you go astray is in thinking that folks "should" play the way you think an MMO ought to be played. Sure, I could be utilitarian and sell that bear trap quest reward, but for me that would leech fun from the game. Efficiency has it's place, and can facilitate fun (hence my request for better filtering), but it's a means not an end, and when ends and means conflict, it's the means that needs to give.

Theosis

I spend at least half my time bouncing form one mule to another. This needs to be fixed..

I know provisions will be trimmed and thank Cheesus! there are way to many mats for food and drinks.

Iluvrien

Imryll wrote: »

Surely, by now it's obvious that folks play this game very differently. For some, it's all about management/progression/competition. For others, it's about exploring characters. You're right that it's all about priorities. Where you go astray is in thinking that folks "should" play the way you think an MMO ought to be played. Sure, I could be utilitarian and sell that bear trap quest reward, but for me that would leech fun from the game. Efficiency has it's place, and can facilitate fun (hence my request for better filtering), but it's a means not an end, and when ends and means conflict, it's the means that needs to give.

Personally, I think this MMO should be played the way that the developers of this MMO said it should be played.

The reasons for limiting bank space have been given, and have been referred to, before. They have taken steps to improve the ability of people to work within these limits. If you ignore those intentions then aren't you actually the one who wants to change the game to fit their view?

Imryll

Iluvrien wrote: »

Personally, I think this MMO should be played the way that the developers of this MMO said it should be played.

So folks should stop asking for UI changes, etc., because they're not part of the vision? Or, maybe, it's in both ZOS's and players' interest to hear how the game can be made more appealing to different types of players?

Iluvrien

Imryll wrote: »

So folks should stop asking for UI changes, etc., because they're not part of the vision? Or, maybe, it's in both ZOS's and players' interest to hear how the game can be made more appealing to different types of players

Not at all! Ask for all the changes your heart desires!

...but given:

1) how often these threads have popped up since launch.
2) every thread seems to be predicated on a request for more slots.
3) more slots is what none of the changes so far have been about (UI changes, ingredient changes, stacking limit changes).

...maybe people need to be doing more considering, suggesting, innovating within the design conceits that the devs have already specified rather than beating the same poor horse on a weekly basis?

NewBlacksmurf

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

The cost of bank slots is absurd and only giving 10 each upgrade. So many items that could just stack in 1 huge pile don't and leave me with a full bank and full pack horses.

Agreed. And the cost keeps increasing which is silly. Many games do this as a gold sink but I think this game has enough gold sinks as is.

starkerealm

Iluvrien wrote: »

Personally, I think this MMO should be played the way that the developers of this MMO said it should be played.

The reasons for limiting bank space have been given, and have been referred to, before. They have taken steps to improve the ability of people to work within these limits. If you ignore those intentions then aren't you actually the one who wants to change the game to fit their view?

People do work within those limits. Or find ways to circumvent them. It doesn't make the system "better."

Honestly, the simplest fix would be to give you access to all of your characters' inventories at the bank. So you can move stuff to and from your mules at will, without having to cross log. It would save so much time.

That said, the provisioning revamp and the crafting stack increase are going to go a long way towards easing up inventory usage.

Denidil

Here is my $0.02

I think an individual character's inventory, once expanded, is just fine. 50 + 60 slots in personal upgrades + 60 slots in horse upgrades (which we never have to swap away from starting in 1.6) = 170 slots. for a total cost of (60*250 + 38,500) = 43,500 gold. That is very reasonable. good deal. Its a good amount of space on a single character. Its effectively 362.5 gold per additional slot over base.

I think the account wide shared bank needs some expansion though.

Currently you start out with 60 bank slots, and after spending 768,500 gold you have 240. that's 4269 gold per slot! (over base) That is a bit unreasonable.

My proposal would be as such:
* Increase the base bank size to 100 slots
* Make each bank upgrade grant an additional 20 slots instead of 10.

That makes the maximum bank size 460 slots with an upgrade cost of 2134 per slot (over base)
Reaching 240 bank slots (equivalent to current max size) would cost just 104,000 gold. or 742gold/slot over base

PlagueMonk

I would prefer staying away from bank slots in the crown store.

There is a simple answer to all our crafting/ bank issues........crafting bags.

You will get access to purchasing a crafting bag for each craft, it will have 3 purchased upgrades (25, 40, 65).

The bag(s) only take up 1 slot on your person, are bound, can't be moved to the bank and only hold mats for the craft in question (not meant for finished products). Done.

starkerealm

Imryll wrote: »

Also, please make copies of recipes and motif books stack.

I'd love this, but at the same time, from a design perspective we are really not supposed to be hoarding those. They're deliberately designed to be as inconvenient as possible in order to encourage us to trade them to players that need that item.

starkerealm

PlagueMonk wrote: »

I would prefer staying away from bank slots in the crown store.

There is a simple answer to all our crafting/ bank issues........crafting bags.

You will get access to purchasing a crafting bag for each craft, it will have 3 purchased upgrades (25, 40, 65).

The bag(s) only take up 1 slot on your person, are bound, can't be moved to the bank and only hold mats for the craft in question (not meant for finished products). Done.

On this subject, I don't think it's the character inventory that's the issue, per say. It's got more to do with crafting materials in the bank. Remember, you're supposed to store your crafting mats in the bank, so your characters can access them wherever they go without filling up their inventory. In practice it doesn't work that way, but still.

I do think we'd be better off with a separate crafting materials tab for the bank that would take 1 stack (the first 200 copies) if each item, and nothing else.

Denidil

PlagueMonk wrote: »

I would prefer staying away from bank slots in the crown store.

There is a simple answer to all our crafting/ bank issues........crafting bags.

You will get access to purchasing a crafting bag for each craft, it will have 3 purchased upgrades (25, 40, 65).

The bag(s) only take up 1 slot on your person, are bound, can't be moved to the bank and only hold mats for the craft in question (not meant for finished products). Done.

that would be nice, but doesn't solve the issue. its shared bank that is the major issue.

PlagueMonk

starkerealm wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

I would prefer staying away from bank slots in the crown store.

There is a simple answer to all our crafting/ bank issues........crafting bags.

You will get access to purchasing a crafting bag for each craft, it will have 3 purchased upgrades (25, 40, 65).

The bag(s) only take up 1 slot on your person, are bound, can't be moved to the bank and only hold mats for the craft in question (not meant for finished products). Done.

On this subject, I don't think it's the character inventory that's the issue, per say. It's got more to do with crafting materials in the bank. Remember, you're supposed to store your crafting mats in the bank, so your characters can access them wherever they go without filling up their inventory. In practice it doesn't work that way, but still.

I do think we'd be better off with a separate crafting materials tab for the bank that would take 1 stack (the first 200 copies) if each item, and nothing else.

There was a specific reason why I said the crafting bags had to stay on your person........so EACH of your toons could have them Even if you don't craft everything on every character, just collecting those materials would make having the base versions of bags worth it.

Theosis

SickDuck wrote: »

. ...Currently it's not an option as people cannot afford to carry much extra load around just for fun.

Considering that this is a game.. this is an issue for me.

Imryll

starkerealm wrote: »

Imryll wrote: »

Also, please make copies of recipes and motif books stack.

I'd love this, but at the same time, from a design perspective we are really not supposed to be hoarding those. They're deliberately designed to be as inconvenient as possible in order to encourage us to trade them to players that need that item.

Of course, if they stacked, I could store them in the bank rather than on a mule--and I'm much more likely to trade them if the character I'm currently playing can access them directly. On the mule, they accumulate until either I'm on the mule when someone in zone wants to buy one or I vend them because they take up too much space. I don't doubt that ZOS' theory is as you described, but that's certainly not the effect on my in-game behavior.

Romo

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Limitations on systems like banks and skill bars force us to make meaningful decisions about what is important to us and our characters. The current limitations are challenging without being impossible. Please, ZOS, do not change this.

Exactly right - costs & benefits, risks & rewards, pros & cons. That's how it works in the real world. That real world/ESO symmetry is called realism & immersion. That's what you asked for.

This summary does set up the usual argument against relieving us of the sub-game of "My Little Pony Musical Saddlebags" which many of us play for 30mins to an hour a day.

And not to pick on this poster, but to use this as an example of an argument gone wrong.

"That's how it works in the real world."

Yes it is, and you can't leave the real world.

But many hundreds of thousands have left this world of Tamriel, and it is my opinion the banking system and backpack system just made their decision easier for them.

Blud

This issue is a classic cash shop driver. I don't think you will see any "free" improvements to storage space.

Iluvrien

Romo wrote: »

But many hundreds of thousands have left this world of Tamriel, and it is my opinion the banking system and backpack system just made their decision easier for them.

And if they take the lazy route of adding more bank slots, rather than actually looking at what might be the root cause of the issue, then it will become a contributing factor towards me considering doing the same.

Majic

Excessive Shuffling Online

I'm encouraged by the improvements coming in 1.6, but I'm still concerned about how much time I'll need to spend shuffling items around to support crafting and characters even after the changes.

The inadequacy of storage space is worse in this game than in any I've played, and dealing with it detracts from the overall gameplay experience.

I've read Matt Firor's comments about this issue and my rebuttal is that they don't make dealing with ESO's inventory system any less tedious, nor does blaming players for objecting to poor design choices make bad decisions good ones.

See Guild Wars 2 for some sanity in this department, and ESO for its diametric opposite.