Sorcerer Community Changes/Suggestions

CP5

Adding

Snit wrote: »

Good suggestions. I would like to add another:

- Twilight Matriarch: Scales with and increases max stamina

Magicka casters all use Restoring Twilight, so it would be an easy spot to give stamina sorcs a useful morph.

AND

Erock25 wrote: »

I have spent the bulk of my ESO time playing my Khajit Sorc in a stamina spec. I have reached rank 18 in Cyrodiil, completed the two lower Craglorn trials many times (mostly in a pick up group), and have completed every quest and every dungeon and every skyshard on my way through Cadwell's Gold. I'm not the best at anything but I think I have a pretty well rounded experience and put a lot of thought into my builds and tried to min-max as best as I could. I think stamina Sorc has some things going for it, but unfortunately they took a pretty significant nerf (relative to other classes stam specs) overall in 1.6.

DKs, NBs, and Temps ALL received some nice stamina morphs in 1.6. This includes direct dmg abilities, dots, CC's, and other useful abilities. Sorc got a channeled magicka -> stam/hp ability and a toggle (so it takes up 2 of your 10 skill bars) that gives a pitiful amount of armor and a slight DPS increase (extra stamina and 10%heavy attack dmg). I know Sorc is traditionally the magicka user, but there is no reason to pigeonhole us. On top of this, the greatest synergy between Sorc and stamina spec was that we could stack our weapon dmg higher than the other classes because of Surge. With the new buff system, Surge weapon dmg increase is redundant with Rally from the 2h line. It is true that stamina builds are stronger overall in 1.6, but out of the four classes out there, Sorc abilities contribute the least to a stamina spec compared to what the other classes use.

I suggest two very minor changes to give the stamina user a reason to be a Sorc...

1. Add Major Endurance buff to Critical Surge morph. Right now all Critical Surge grants over Power Surge is 10% health returns from a crit. Sorc needs better stamina management and this is a perfect place for it. It also gives a stamina Sorc a reason to use Crit Surge over Rally. Right now, Rally is superior to Crit Surge in almost every way. Critical Surge lasts for 20 seconds, and I think Major Endurance should only last for the first 12 of those 20 seconds. Right now my Sorc on PTS has 760 stam regen, but I have more weapon dmg and crit rating set bonuses than stam regen ones, so let's just assume I can easily get to 1000 stam regen. Major Endurance for 12 seconds would result in 1800 additional stamina over that time frame. That sounds reasonable and far from overpowering to me, but makes Crit Surge use over Rally worth it.

2. Change Crystal Blast into a stamina morph (1 sec cast that also has a 35% chance to instant proc on stamina ability usage) that is a melee range Crystal Frag but also provides the Minor Brutality buff to the Sorc and their group. Sorc needs more group buffs and Minor Brutality is an underused buff right now. It should hit for around 2/3 as hard as a Crystal Frag (in a magicka spec) to compensate for the additional buff. This could also be turned into a 5 second duration dot if burst dmg is a concern and considering how often it should proc, 5 seconds sounds about right for the group Minor Brutality buff too.

I think these two changes are very reasonable and address some of the short comings of a Stamina Sorc while also returning the benefits a Sorc had in a stamina spec in 1.5. I know ZOS tried to help our stamina regen with the Dark Deal morph, but using a channel spell in melee range (without the ability to rely on a few Streaks to create range) is not going to cut it. The stamina version of Crystal Frag also rights two wrongs. The first being that Sorc lost their weapon dmg advantage with the new buff system and even the very small Minor Brutality buff would go a long way to helping this. The second is that Sorc were given ZERO stamina morphs that did any damage at all.

Please consider these changes ZOS as I think all classes should be able to spec into either magicka or stamina.

Edit: spelling.

From [http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/151691/zos-stamina-sorc-suggestions]

CP5

@Jar_Ek, i'll add those in as well, but if you want to talk about length i'm going to try to go into the "1.6.2 Sorc Magicka Builds Still Ruined!!! I'm Done! ZoS Read!" thread, now that's long.

Voltos

Lightning Splash:

Player/Enemy targeted
Increased Damage/Radius

Turn your target into a lightning rod, and the aoe damage would affect them and anyone within the radius. This would solve the mechanics issue in PVE, and PVP players would be able to either roll-doge or breakout of the effect. Rename it -- Lightning Storm -- Win-Win imo.

CP5

Currently have most of what has been posted in threads the last week (except that large 14 page one). Seems there are no suggestions for the Storm Atronach or the Dark Magic passives, but aside from that there is a lot of ideas here.

Kingdinguhling

CP5 wrote: »

Added Suggestions from

Dark Exchange
- This ability is now a toggle (because I know you love those)
- While toggled, disables Stamina Recovery, but doubles Magicka Recovery and tripples Health Recovery.
Dark Conversion
- While toggled, disables Magicka Recovery, but doubles Stamina Recovery and tripples Health Recovery.

Re-quoted from [http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/151645/sorc-1-6-3-preview-from-livestream/p3]

We Would literally be on Perma Sprint or Shield spam with these..... think of the actual implications of this.

And triples health recovery for stamina morph lol ..... WAY 2 OP.

I thought it would be a big jump just to ask to turn these into DOT Effects where we could fully cast and block and sprint.

This guys wants to give us full time Triple Health and Double Stamina regen.

CP5

Kingdinguhling wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Added Suggestions from

Dark Exchange
- This ability is now a toggle (because I know you love those)
- While toggled, disables Stamina Recovery, but doubles Magicka Recovery and tripples Health Recovery.
Dark Conversion
- While toggled, disables Magicka Recovery, but doubles Stamina Recovery and tripples Health Recovery.

Re-quoted from [http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/151645/sorc-1-6-3-preview-from-livestream/p3]

We Would literally be on Perma Sprint or Shield spam with these..... think of the actual implications of this.

And triples health recovery for stamina morph lol ..... WAY 2 OP.

I thought it would be a big jump just to ask to turn these into DOT Effects where we could fully cast and block and sprint.

This guys wants to give us full time Triple Health and Double Stamina regen.

That could easily be op, I think an alternative to that would be to disable one resource from regening and then buff the regen of the other 2 by a percentage of what was lost. Also having 0 regen for mana or stamina could also be a heavy penalty in most situations. Again, just trying to pool ideas to get some brainstorming going and to let the devs know what we're thinking.

Nihil

As you are just compiling ideas I will keep it simple... from another thread.

"Right now DK's have passives that increase the status effect of fire attacks. Putting Snares on ardent falme abilites and increasing the damage (marginally) of the burning effect. If we do something similar for sorcs and have a passive that increases the chance of applying the concussion effect, we are giving sorcs a (semi) more reliable damage mitgation mechanic (which we are lacking as suppression fields minor protection buff can be obtained using circle of protection). This buff would give new advantages to our lightning skills, as lightning flood / thundering presence / mages fury would then have an increase chance of reducing the damage that we will also be taking."

Digiman

Daedric mines increase the radius of detonation so that the morph Daedric minefield can't be slipped through or outright avoided.

Dark Exchange, now last 2.5 seconds and the conversion ticks every 0.5 seconds.

Or have it so that last tick procs and gives us a 6% max health and magicka to hightlight the need for others to interrupt this ability.

Dracane

CP5 wrote: »

Currently have most of what has been posted in threads the last week (except that large 14 page one). Seems there are no suggestions for the Storm Atronach or the Dark Magic passives, but aside from that there is a lot of ideas here.

Because the Atronach is not viable in pvp. His range is too short.
He needs full range, to be worth a slot. I think, increasing his range is the needed solution and have you seen a stormatronach in the game, that can be CCed ? I don't.... and our Atronach is even bigger than some of them. So why is our Atronach not immune to CC ?

I never liked the Sorcerer Ultimates. I am so glad, Overload became somewhat viable in 1.6. It's rather a 3rd bar, than a real Ultimate. But it's better than the other Sorcerer ultimates.

CP5

Adding

AssaultLemming wrote: »

I think we can all agree that the proposed change to lightning splash doesn't look even vaguely likely to fix the sorc dps problem.

Wouldn't it be simpler to just buff the damage of mages wrath to be equivalent/ greater to crushing shock?

If a flat damage increase is too easy and too OP in PvP maybe give it some sort of nice synergy with another skill.

Perhaps enemies effected by lightning splash and it's morphs take 200% to 300% more damage from other lightning abilities? That would make lightning splash a lot more fun to use while not making it OP in PvP because it can so easily be avoided, and it would work for both ranged and melee sorcs...

AND

MADshadowman wrote: »

Tweaking skills will not solve our problem. Our problem is that 2 basic skills are completely missing.

1 instant cast/instant damage skill with moderate damage. This would allow us to drop the destro staff. It's ridiculous that we don't have what all the other classes have.

1 self heal. And no, crit surge is not a self heal. It's a damage boost with a healing side effect, but you can't rely on that. And if you are wounded, the last thing you wanna do is to charge into a zerg for some healing. Just a medium self heal would go a long way. This would allow us to drop the resto staff as well.

These 2 skills would open up new build options and make the sorc more versatile and fun to play.

AND

Fayaburn wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

@Dracane
Endless Fury
Reduces the cost of recasting the spell by 10% per subsequent cast to a maximum reduction of 50%. A subsequent recast is considered to be a recast within 2 seconds of the last cast.

Obviously the specific %ages would need to be adjusted but something like this instead?

Is this a suggestion or is this, what endless fury does ?

I myself don't care a lot for the cost of a spell. I care for the damage. For endless fury, this might be a reasonable solution. But it has a good cost-damage, when used below 20% health anyway. However, interesting idea.

What would you do with mage's wrath, to give the morph a meaning ?

Mage's Wrath
Damage augments by 6% per subsequent cast to a maximum of 30%. A subsequent recast is considered to be a recast within 2 seconds of the last cast.

There you go. You can choose to get the cost decreasing, or the damage increasing.

From [http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/151943/sorc-dps-mages-wrath-and-lightning-splash]

CP5

Adding

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

(skip down to "TL/DR line" if you don't want details)
******************************************************************
In my opinion, the main problem with Sorcerers is that they are not, in fact, what I consider to be Sorcerers. If I were to list all of the "magical" character types (aka classes) from fantasy and gaming, we'd have quite a large list: Shamans, Wizards, Sorcerers, Necromancers, Summoners, etc.

While many of us may not agree 100% on which "spells" each of those classes should have, I am confident we would all agree that they are different from each other.

So, in my opinion, the current implementation of ESO Sorcerer has the following mix of spells:
- Some Wizard spells
- Some Shaman spells
- Some Summoner spells
- Some actual Sorcerer spells

This is mainly due to the fact that ESO only has 4 classes, so each class is a sort of "Mega Archetype", trying to squeeze in every "idea" or "concept" that might comprise such a class. This seems to have been done in a way that mostly works for the other 3 classes, but falls short when it comes to Sorcerers. I will try to describe why I think this is so.

For the other 3 classes, each of the 3 "lines" of class skills are fairly synergistic to each other. For example, you can meaningfully mix Assassination skills, Shadow skills and Syphoning skills into an effective hotbar. Same goes for Ardent Flame / Draconic Power / Earthen Heart. Until recently, Templars had a rough time at such synergy, but I feel as of 1.6 it is just barely getting to the point where the 3 lines (Aedric Spear, Dawn's Wrath, Restoring Light) can play well together into a hotbar setup. This is definitely assuming that other skills are mixed in from various places (Weapon skills, Fighters/Mages Guild, WW/Vampire, Assault/Support, etc.)

But I feel that the Sorcerer set of skills not only lacks the same synergy, but really lacks even the most basic elements of what I feel is truly "sorcery".

Daedric Summoning is a mix of Shaman and Summoner skills (curses and summons). In this case, Armor and Ward are classified as summoning something.

Dark Magic is a mix of Wizard, Necromancy, Summoning and, IMHO, the only true Sorcerer skill in the game (Rune Prison).

Storm Calling is exclusively what I would classify as Wizard skills.

To me, and I do realize this is only an opinion, but a Sorcerer should be more about enchantments, charms, mesmerizing, holding, and draining or syphoning of energy. I would expect a class called "Sorcerer" to have not only a mesmerize (Rune Prison, keeps you immobile until someone hits you, which is classic "mez" behavior in most MMORPGs), but to have some real holds (Encase is close), enhantments/charms (make enemy into friend for short periods, in PvP would turn enemies unattackable/untargettable, and friendly faction into attackable/targettable), and some kind of draining attack, such as an attack which deals damage to you if you have a Shield or other Buff effect running (a kind of feedback attack).


****************************** TL/DR line *******************************

Anyway, I realize its probably too late for a "rewrite" of Sorcerer. So, with that in mind, I think it *is* possible to phase out a few weaker abilities in exchange for a few which are more synergistic and would improve the flow and feel of the class overall.

Some changes I think would make the difference:
1. Swap out Bound Armor for "Feedback", a straight up DoT ability which deals damage based on how many active buffs the target has (not counting "permanent" ones like Campaign, Mundus Stones, etc., only short "timed" buffs like Surge, Rally, Mutagen, Healing Ward, Conjured Ward, etc.) The more buffs the target has going, the harder the DoT ticks. And yes, it would specifically bypass shields.
2. Swap out Lighting Form for "Lightning Bolt", a straight up, 1 target DPS spammable skill. Should be at least as powerful as Force Shock from Destro staff, if not in actual damage #, then with a very good side ability. It definitely would be able to proc Disintegrate, maybe at a higher rate.

Now, this won't fix everything, but I feel that the "harmonics" of Sorcerers would change a bit for the better if changes like these (or something similar) were made.

From [http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/152011/sorcerers-arent-sorcerers-they-are-jack-of-all-mages#latest]

Merlin13KAGL

Encase: Not hated by all - the spell (both morphs) can quite useful. Modify with diminishing returns on multiple targets when using Blood Magic passive. This would make the heals more useful without becoming OP.

BoL mod: Orbs remain, but appear randomly, vice leaving a trail of breadcrumbs showing your exact location.

Mines mod: Proximity. Mines could independently kite/seek nearest target.

Negate nerf effectively killed this as an Ult. Now, to counter negate, all one needs to do is preemptively drop some effects leading to the negate, after which the majority of effects/Ults can then be dropped afterwards.

Stun is not a stun if you can CC break. Silence is countered by relocating. Negate has been modified to be a ranged Purge - nothing more, nothing less.

Lastly, nothing should be immune to effects except the highest level NPC enemies. Reduced effects up to 50% are reasonable. Complete immunity (for durations longer than about 3 seconds) is not.

CP5

Adding

Lord_Hev wrote: »

They should replace it with that "Shock Turrent" spell the NPC Tower guards use in PvP.


2 second cast time, with a 10m radius and 2k damage ticks. Non spammable, but extremely deadly if well placed.

Exstazik wrote: »

Suggestion:
1 morph-increased radius+initial hit deals ++ additional damage.
2 morph-if the target run out from AoE,it will be debuffed for [x] sec by dot+snare

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It may find minor use as an anti-melee defense (if you're standing in the middle of it yourself)

Liquid Lightning's initial hit bonus is laughable, especially at the cost of 50% reduced area.

Lightning Flood has more potential. Add Weakness to shock by x% with each tick, so the longer you stand in it, the harder it hits.

Give it a disorient/knockdown proc chance...something. (Think Vet Darkshade Grobul's stun...)

There has to be more incentive for the enemy to get the heck out of the way. Longer duration doesn't do that by itself.

Faulgor wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

They should replace it with that "Shock Turrent" spell the NPC Tower guards use in PvP.


2 second cast time, with a 10m radius and 2k damage ticks. Non spammable, but extremely deadly if well placed.

Man, that reminds me of Storm Gust in Ragnarok Online.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMh77c059Io

Quite nostalgic. But if Sorcerers could get a skill like that, I'd be veeery happy.

Storm Gust
- 2 Second cast time. For 5 seconds, creates a storm that deals x shock damage every 0.5 seconds.
Blizzard
- Also deals x frost damage every second with a chance to freeze targets.
Thunderstorm
- Every piece of Light Armor reduces cast time and increases duration.

/dream

From [http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/151792/consider-increasing-lightning-splash-damage-and-radius#latest]

CP5

Adding

Erock25 wrote: »

@ZOS ... please don't leave stamina Sorcs out in the cold in this 1.6 update. I've been putting in a ton of hours into the PTS and I'm convinced that there is no reason to be a Sorc as a stamina user. Just look at Critical Surge.... it costs my stamina Sorc 4150 magicka (just about half my magicka pool without food) and gives me 17 seconds of Major Brutality with a neutered heal on crit (tooltip lacks this information but I believe it is a 0.25 second cooldown). Rally on the other hand, costs me 1250 stamina and gives me Major Brutality for 33 seconds and 611 health regen + a burst heal when it expires or I end it.

I don't think ZOS went into 1.6 thinking they wanted to really change up how the classes function and that is why I think Crit Surge must be buffed for stamina users. First off, there is no reason to use Crit Surge anymore, unless you are a stamina user. I like the idea of keeping it as a magicka costing ability, but the cost needs to be reduced in addition to what I listed in the original post. Some stamina regen (Major Endurance) would be awesome, and in essence allow a Sorc to spend magicka to regen stamina.

Also the other thing stamina Sorc is missing from 1.5, is that we can no longer stack our weapon dmg higher than the other classes. Giving stam Sorcs the means to buff themselves with Minor Brutality (in the form of a stamina version of Crystal Frag) will returns the reason for someone to want to be a stamina Sorc.

I know there is a lot of Sorc complaining on the forums now, but if you know the class at all, you know a stamina build does not synergize with Sorc AT ALL in 1.6. We need something to remedy that and I'm afraid it will never happen if we wait until after 1.6, so I have to post about it.

From [http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/151691/zos-stamina-sorc-suggestions]

CP5

Adding

madangrypally wrote: »

First off ill like to start off saying I am PvP orientated and my suggestions steam mostly from this while keeping in mind the PvE aspect. I have one of each class but prefer Sorcerer.

Class: Sorcerer

Dark Magic:
Negate: This has seen a drastic nerf, and while I agree it was to powerful I think it was nerfed to hard. Could use a small buff.

Crystal Blast (Crystal Shard Morph): Make this cost and scale with Stamina. (lol i know but had to ask)

Defensive Rune (Rune Prison Morph): Make this cost and scale with Stamina and add a small amount of damage when stun ends (or is broken out of).

Daedra Mines: Make one of the morphs scale and cost stamina. Would be nice if they stopped chargers also.
========================

Daedric Summing:
Bound Armor: Add Minor Ward to the base ability.
Bound Aegis: Add a new effect for spell casters.
========================

Storm Calling: Reduce Magicka cost of all abilities by 10% to make up the lost passive.

Overload and its morphs: Allow weapon abilities to be used. Currently this Ultimate is pretty worthless to Stamina based characters as they cant use their weapons.

Critical Surge: Not sure.

Expert Mage: Let is add weapon damage in addition to spell power. Increase it to 3% instead of 2%.
=====================================

Other then the above changes fix some of the bugs which I also think are effecting sorcerer. Primary let Crystal Frag proc when using Bolt.

From [http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/152284/sorcerer-feedback/p1]

CP5

Adding

Lussura wrote: »

...

With all this said. Changes are needed to improve Sorcerer magicka based damage. Crystal Fragments which is supposed to be our main damage spell...isn't even used in pvp. Instead it is now Force Pulse spam. Crystal Fragments needs a serious change and to be frank... none of your player currently playing care what happened within pvp... so stop balancing based off it. Only a seriously small fraction from player play ESO to pvp. So it stands to reason, that you simply don't balance based off pvp.

Suggested Crystal Fragments Change:

Current Effect: Cast time 1.3 seconds. Deals XXXX Magic Damage to target and knocks down for 2 seconds. 35% chance to make your next use an instant cast and cost 50% less when activating ability with a Magicka cost.

New Effect: Cast time 0.25 seconds. Deals XXXX Magic Damage to target and knocks down for 2 seconds. 75% chance to make your next use an instant cast and cost 75% less when activating ability with a Magicka cost.

This is a EXTREMELY simply change, that makes the instant cast more reliable for Sorcerer dps. Which makes it once again worth casting.


Suggested Velocious Curse Change:

Current Effect: Target is cursed for 3.5 seconds. When effect completes target takes XXXX Magic Damage, and nearby enemies take XXXX Magic Damage. Only 1 curse may be active at a time.

New Effect:Target is cursed for 15.5 seconds. When effect completes target takes XXXX Magic Damage, and nearby enemies take XXXX Magic Damage. Curse may be applied up to 6 targets.

This is another simple change. Velicious Curse would deal more damage over a longer period of time. Provided sustained damage. Being able to be applied to multiple targets allows the spell to be far more effect in aoe situations as well .

Suggested Mages Wrath Change:

Current Effect: Deals XXXX Shock Damage to target. Explodes for an additional XXXX Shock Damage if the target falls below 20% health within 4 seconds. The explosion deals XXXX Shock Damage to enemies within a 4m radius of the target.

New Effect: Deals XXXX Shock Damage to target. Explodes for an additional XXXX Shock Damage if the target falls below 50% health within 4 seconds. The explosion deals XXXX Shock Damage to enemies within a 4m radius of the target.

This is a EXTREMELY simply change, that makes the execute more reliable for Sorcerer dps. Which makes it once again worth casting. This change makes the boss executable at 50% rather than 20%....it's that simple to fix.

From [http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/152450/1-6-3-sorc-magicka-builds-still-ruined/p1]

and more.

Audigy

The reason why I picked the Sorcerer class was the pet tree. Therefore my reasoning will be based on our pet skill line and how to improve it in future.

If I look at our Sorcerers today then I do see a very specific way of playing, I call that way the "Necro". We do have animals to control, while we keep them up and use debuffs on our enemies to support them.

Unfortunately is that way of playing very limited, to not say "disappointing" compared to nuke Sorcerers who have a ton of abilities to chose from.

Pets:

The biggest concern are of course the pets. We have our Atronarch, a flying gargoyle and either a little demon on two feet that does damage, or a little dinosaur with a cleave.

Pete the Atronarch:

I don't like that we only summon him for a short amount of time. It would be much better if he would last until he dies, plus could move around. Its an ultimate after all and right now its duration is too short, especially in big fights like in dungeons or world boss encounters.

Bobo the Clannfear:

He should be our main tank for our pet army, unfortunately does he die too quick, while being unable to really taunt enemies of us. While 1.6 changes a few things, Bobo still feels underwhelming at times and should serve us as a real tank that protects its master.

Tickles the Familiar:

I like the little guy, he is a ranged DPS and does a decent job, if he wouldn't die by the slightest hit. Besides that, Tickles is removed if we get Bobo - one of the worst design choices in our pet tree. We shouldn't lose one pet for another, we should have them all!

Sexy the Winged Twilight:

She is like Bobo, standing back while supporting Tickles and its master. Sadly she dies incredible fast and has not really a lot of benefit for us.


The changes:

1. In the Army now

First of all I would like to have more options in regards of our personal army. As mentioned, we shouldn't lose one pet for another. The second part is that we should have more pets in general and that we should be able to spec them individually. We should be allowed to decide what type of damage they do, learn them new spells and skills, improve their resilience and define what their job shall be in our squad.

I am thinking of something like Bobo being the tank with tons of HP, Taunts and an AOE cleave, Sexy with supportive heals and roots, while tickles nukes and Pete joins in during boss fights. Besides that we could summon skeletons or revive slain enemies for a short amount of time to aid us in battle.

2. What we do

Right now we have a single debuff (deadric curse) that we can use to assist our pets. This just isn't enough. We should have way more options there. We should be able to lower the Armor of enemies, slow their attacks, hex them and buff our minions in battle. I also think our heals should be more effective on our pets.

The vision:

The idea behind this is a similar system like other games offer, being able to have a whole army of pets playing for and with its master. As a summoner we should be able to choose how we play and how our pets behave. We shouldn't have to sacrifice our pets for another and we should decide in which department each individual one is stronger or weaker. Give us the control of our way of playing. Make our summoned creates meaningful and get away from the idea of them just being additional accessories with no real purpose.

I choose the Sorcerer / Summoner class for a reason and I would love to see that reason be reflected in our skill lines. If we play nuke sorcerer then we have so many options to play, but as a Summoner we don't

CP5

Audigy wrote: »

The reason why I picked the Sorcerer class was the pet tree. Therefore my reasoning will be based on our pet skill line and how to improve it in future.

If I look at our Sorcerers today then I do see a very specific way of playing, I call that way the "Necro". We do have animals to control, while we keep them up and use debuffs on our enemies to support them.

Unfortunately is that way of playing very limited, to not say "disappointing" compared to nuke Sorcerers who have a ton of abilities to chose from.

Pets:

The biggest concern are of course the pets. We have our Atronarch, a flying gargoyle and either a little demon on two feet that does damage, or a little dinosaur with a cleave.

Pete the Atronarch:

I don't like that we only summon him for a short amount of time. It would be much better if he would last until he dies, plus could move around. Its an ultimate after all and right now its duration is too short, especially in big fights like in dungeons or world boss encounters.

Bobo the Clannfear:

He should be our main tank for our pet army, unfortunately does he die too quick, while being unable to really taunt enemies of us. While 1.6 changes a few things, Bobo still feels underwhelming at times and should serve us as a real tank that protects its master.

Tickles the Familiar:

I like the little guy, he is a ranged DPS and does a decent job, if he wouldn't die by the slightest hit. Besides that, Tickles is removed if we get Bobo - one of the worst design choices in our pet tree. We shouldn't lose one pet for another, we should have them all!

Sexy the Winged Twilight:

She is like Bobo, standing back while supporting Tickles and its master. Sadly she dies incredible fast and has not really a lot of benefit for us.


The changes:

1. In the Army now

First of all I would like to have more options in regards of our personal army. As mentioned, we shouldn't lose one pet for another. The second part is that we should have more pets in general and that we should be able to spec them individually. We should be allowed to decide what type of damage they do, learn them new spells and skills, improve their resilience and define what their job shall be in our squad.

I am thinking of something like Bobo being the tank with tons of HP, Taunts and an AOE cleave, Sexy with supportive heals and roots, while tickles nukes and Pete joins in during boss fights. Besides that we could summon skeletons or revive slain enemies for a short amount of time to aid us in battle.

2. What we do

Right now we have a single debuff (deadric curse) that we can use to assist our pets. This just isn't enough. We should have way more options there. We should be able to lower the Armor of enemies, slow their attacks, hex them and buff our minions in battle. I also think our heals should be more effective on our pets.

The vision:

The idea behind this is a similar system like other games offer, being able to have a whole army of pets playing for and with its master. As a summoner we should be able to choose how we play and how our pets behave. We shouldn't have to sacrifice our pets for another and we should decide in which department each individual one is stronger or weaker. Give us the control of our way of playing. Make our summoned creates meaningful and get away from the idea of them just being additional accessories with no real purpose.

I choose the Sorcerer / Summoner class for a reason and I would love to see that reason be reflected in our skill lines. If we play nuke sorcerer then we have so many options to play, but as a Summoner we don't

I think its hard to argue that pets don't need some sort of durability buff. The number of times I've seen my twilight (who remains unnamed) fly off and get itself killed is more than a bit frequent. Allowing the class to use more debuff based skills could be a good way to give the class a defined role and make them interesting to play. Would you think that Bloodbile (replacement suggestion for Encase) and Fatigue (replacement suggestion for Daedric Mines) would fit into the idea you have for the support debuffs?

But regardless, it would be an amazing day to see an army of sorcerer Atronach's chasing people around Cryodiil.

CP5

Adding

Gil.Galad wrote: »

Suggestions and ability feedback
As i mentioned before the developer team is on a good way, but i would like to make some suggestions and give some detailed feedback on abilites.

Passives:
- expert mage:
I like the idea behind this change to give the sorcerer the chance to reach the highest spelldmg of all classes, so they are more powerful with destruction and restoration staffs then other classes. The problem is that these 2% arent enough since they compete agains the mages guild passive (2% max magicka, 2% magicka reg) per ability slottet. In terms of dmg the 2% more spelldmg are only better if your max magicka is lower than you spelldmg times 10 (max magicka < spelldmg*10). This will rarely happen, specially when you get more CPs. So this passive gives about 6% more spelldmg in most of the cases (since the sorc always needs a destruction staff ability). So it gives about 3% dmg/healing increase. Nice to have but not world changing.
Rising it to 3% would actually make it better than the mages guild passive.

I'm not complaining about the loss of the 10% magicka reduction, because magicka management becomes a lot easier with the CP system. At this point it only hurts stamina sorcs, which is kind of sad but as I mentioned I see the sorc as a magicka caster.

- Daedric Protection
This passive is pretty useless and could be replaced by a better one. The sorcerer has no ability or passive that supports its healing ability. Why not change Daedric Protection to:
"Increses the healing done by (3%/5%) while having a deadric summoning ability slotted"

This could bring the sorc in line with the other classes in terms of healing.

- Expert Mage
As written above this should be increased to 1%/3% in order to get on a level with the mages guild passive (2% max magicka, 2% magicka reg). But its a step in the right direction.

Active abilities:

- negate magic
the negate has to come on one lvl with the other defensive ultimates. Since it only negates magic effects on impact and not during the whole duration, which was extremely strong and maybe too strong. The absorption field is a pretty useless morph since the major buffs can be obtained by other non ultimate abilities (radiant aura, potions, rapid manouver).
For the suppresion field there is a simple solution:
Increase the dmg reduction to 30% (major buff) like the vail of blades and keep the spellpenetration buff and the rest.

- Cristal fragments
I like the changes here with the extra dmg when it procs. The problem is that the sorcerer doesnt have an instant cast skill to spam in order to proc crystal fragments. The only option here is crushing shock / force shock. And it should proc on all skills including streak and encase.
Increasing the proc chance (maybe arround 50%) could be a way to bring the sorcs dps in line with other classes.

- Encase
The spell is fine, and i also like the morphs, but i would make one suggestion: Make it a groud target like lightning flood, with a circle area (6-8m radius). That would be really cool and give the sorcerer a ranged unique root and not a bad copy of the DKs talons.

- Lightning flood
I really like the increased duration. Whoever says it doesnt hurt should do some maths. Even the 6 sec morph is an extremely good (aoe) DOT. The 10 sec morph is the best non ultimate DOT in the game, ticking every 0.5 sec with 800 dmg for 10 sec (15.000 dmg) on my vet 14 altmer sorc with 90 CP set. In combination with the valkyn skoria set this is awesome. Additionally it has 28m range and it provides a synergy.
But there are two downsides:
Placing it feels somehow unresponsive, since its a ground effect and the animation is pretty slow.
The radius is pretty small, so when the boss moves its hard to use.

- Bound armor
Lets make it short. The minor armor buff is like nothing. Only the 8% magicka/stamina depending on the morph is worth slotting it, but does it have to be a toggle and waste 2 slots on my bar?

- Pets in general
The fact that they are toggles is a real problem, because they take too much space on both bars and you have almost no options when you try to play them effectively (magelight, deadric prey, empowering ward, entropy/surge, filler (cristal shards/force shock)). No Place for AOE or execute, so its no good build for most of the dungeons and trials. Additionally the pets take heals, that are aimed at players and trigger boss mechanics like the lightning chain in AA.

Im not a fan of pets in endgame content and the sorcerers should not have to depend on them to be able to compete in terms of dps.

- Surge
I have i huge problem with this ability and how it performs in 1.6. and here is why:
The unmorphed version gives weapon damage. That was fine before 1.6 because the sorcerer could buff the dmg of destruction staffs and the healing with the resto staffs like no other class. In 1.6 they scale with spelldmg, like all sorcerer abilities. So why doesnt the base version give spelldmg and only one morph give weapon dmg?
There is no need for a morph that gives spell and weapon dmg since hybrid builds cant compete with specialized builds since the removal of softcaps.
The biggest problem is the change to the healing it does. Every class has a spell that does dmg and heals the caster (T: Puncturing Sweep, DK: Inhale, NB: sap essence), and the healing is increased based on the enemies hit. The sorcerer used to have crit surge, that was working somehow similar. Now they implemented a cooldown for the heal, so even if you hit multiple targets you only get one heal every 0,25 sec. If you are unlucky there will be a dot criting and your high dmg ability (meteor, impulse) cant give you a heal thx to the cooldown. The other classes dont have this cooldown, why?
The videos above (under survivability) show the imbalance between the selfheals from sorcs and temps. I dont have a NB or DK but its enough to show that one class is able to do it. I dont want you to nerf all other classes. Just bring the sorcerer back on their lvl with a change like this:
Remove the cooldown of surge, limit the crit heals to 6 targets (puncturing sweep doesnt even have a limit, see video above) and adjust the heals with the % factor (used to be 65%, got reduced to 40% in 1.6). I agree when people say critsurge was too strong, but at the moment its not worth its slot on the bar.

- Surge vs. Entropy
Its not only the cooldown that made surge redundant, but the buff to entropy. Entropy provides the same spelldmg buff and also some heals, that can be higher than the surge heals when casted on multiple targets.
Additional Entropy effects:
- it deals dmg over time
- if morphed it gives 8% more max health in addition to the 2% magicka and 2% magicka reg from the mages guild passives
- the next spell deals 20% more dmg (if you have a cristal fragments proc thats almost 2k more dmg)
- it cost 1/3 of surge

So when it comes to single target dmg entropy will allways be superior. Without the cooldown removed surge wont be in any sorcerer build anymore. It used to be the most favorite ability of many sorcs and it used to be unique.

- Dark exchange
As a channeled ability its absolutely useless in fights. In PVE you loose to much dps/healing when you cant cast for 4 seconds, in PVP its like praying to the nine just before you are dead.
If you want to make it useful make it a toggle, but you should be able to perform spells while its active. It will drain your stamina until its gone or you turn it of. This wont unbalance pvp since you are dead when you run out of stamina (no dodging blocking or CC break).

- Deadric mines
This is the only ability that might be even worse then dark exchange. Its costs are extremely high, its not a ground target like the flame rune from the mages guild but a player cast. The cooldown against bosses makes it useless in terms of single target dps. I dont know if ppl use it against players but in most of the situations the flame rune will be dealing more dmg and it stuns (morph) instead of the immobilize.

Every other class got a new ability with 1.6. The sorcerer didnt get one, while there would be so many options and a real need for a unique instant cast ability that does moderate dmg. There are some ideas in the forums, but I want to share my own ones:

Replace deadric mines
Insert an ability like a dark magic ball, maybe a fire ball (dark fire ball) that
- has 28m range
- is instant castable
- deals a bit more dmg than force shock
- maybe a little aoe dmg like the curse when its a fire ball
Morphs:
- 1 morph that reduces the targets spellresistance (minor debuff)
- 1 morph that restores magicka over time to the group like the NB are able to heal the group a bit

An ability like this would solve several sorc problems: They could have an own "filler" for some rotations and dont rely on the destro staff/force shock anymore. We could provide some unique support to the group (magicka recovery, a debuff no one else provides).

You are the developers. Be creative and give us something we can play with and support the group. Give raidgroups a reason to take some sorcs with them.

From [http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/152589/pts-1-6-3-sorcerer-detailed-balance-feedback/p1]

CP5

Adding

Erock25 wrote: »

@ZOS ... please don't leave stamina Sorcs out in the cold in this 1.6 update. I've been putting in a ton of hours into the PTS and I'm convinced that there is no reason to be a Sorc as a stamina user. Just look at Critical Surge.... it costs my stamina Sorc 4150 magicka (just about half my magicka pool without food) and gives me 17 seconds of Major Brutality with a neutered heal on crit (tooltip lacks this information but I believe it is a 0.25 second cooldown). Rally on the other hand, costs me 1250 stamina and gives me Major Brutality for 33 seconds and 611 health regen + a burst heal when it expires or I end it.

I don't think ZOS went into 1.6 thinking they wanted to really change up how the classes function and that is why I think Crit Surge must be buffed for stamina users. First off, there is no reason to use Crit Surge anymore, unless you are a stamina user. I like the idea of keeping it as a magicka costing ability, but the cost needs to be reduced in addition to what I listed in the original post. Some stamina regen (Major Endurance) would be awesome, and in essence allow a Sorc to spend magicka to regen stamina.

Also the other thing stamina Sorc is missing from 1.5, is that we can no longer stack our weapon dmg higher than the other classes. Giving stam Sorcs the means to buff themselves with Minor Brutality (in the form of a stamina version of Crystal Frag) will returns the reason for someone to want to be a stamina Sorc.

I know there is a lot of Sorc complaining on the forums now, but if you know the class at all, you know a stamina build does not synergize with Sorc AT ALL in 1.6. We need something to remedy that and I'm afraid it will never happen if we wait until after 1.6, so I have to post about it.

madangrypally wrote: »

This class is getting a lot of attention on the forums as being the worst class. I disagree and fear any kneejerk reactions from ZoS. I do think there is room for some adjustments and tweaks.


Negate: This ability has been changed to the point it is pretty useless. Rather then removing it and giving another Ultimate I feel it should be modified yet again to make it more useful. No suggestions on what change though.

Shattering Prison(Encase Morph): Change to Area effect around the sorcerer instead of in front of sorcerer (small radius). Have it scale and cost Stamina.

Defensive Rune(Rune Prison Morph): Make the enemy take damage when breaking out of the imprisoned. The explosion should deal enough damage to be felt.

Daedric Mines: Add 50% of damage to deal small range AoE damage. Let one of the Morphs scale and cost Stamina. Make the mines stop a charging player.



Daedric Curse: Make pets deal extra damage to the unmoprhed ability.
Daedric Prey. Remove the extra pet damage. New: Adds weapon damage when attacking target for caster only. Cost/scales with stamina.

Bound Armor: Add Minor Ward to Bound Armor. Allow Max Magicka to scale to 10% at Rank 4
Bound Armaments: Same changes as above with with Stamina and current bonuses.
Bound Aegis: Changed to something else.

Critical Surge (surge morph): This needs to be adjusted as currently it only adds 10% to the heal, Or remove it and replace it with something else for Stamina builds.

From [http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/151691/zos-stamina-sorc-suggestions/p1]

Zlater

@CP5 I saw this thread in your signature, I think this is brilliant!

It's a bit disappointing that 6 months on now and it would seem as though this thread hasn't even been seen, this is exactly what sorcerers are feeling right now and we would like some changes.

I know I might be bumping this back but I think its ok. This is STILL extremely relevant and I think it should be reviewed, I don't really see the point in making a thousand other threads like this. ZOS if you are here and you read this please say, we just want to know you are listening. 6 months on and it doesn't exactly feel like it you know.

Forestd16b14_ESO

How about no changes cause they seem perfectly fine to me on PTS still crystal fragging every where and shield stacking shields that still cover there entire health bar even after that so called "shield nerf". IMO

starkerealm

I smell foul necromancy afoot!

ADarklore

Perhaps because Sorcery is fine the way it is. In fact, I got bored with my Sorc because I was destroying everything and anything within seconds. Most of the time it isn't the class that is the problem, it is the players who want to 'play their way' and expect all powers to do the same exact damage no matter what they choose. You just have to learn to utilize the powers that do the most damage and learn a rotation that maximizes their potential. Of course I only do PvE, but in PvE I'm finding little to no challenge for my Sorc- not even Group bosses anymore.

CP5

@Zlater, glad to see that this thread still gets looked at from time to time. I only made it so people had an easy place to look over all the changes (and all the ideas should be linked to the comment they came from). With the console release I doubted much would happen but it is interesting how little has changed.

@Forestd16b14_ESO, There are a good number of sorc's who don't want to be the same build as one another. Wouldn't it be nice if whenever you faced a sorc it wouldn't be the same shield spamming burst build? That's what a lot of this thread was about, ideas to give the class choices.

@starkerealm, don't ask me why, some of my real old threads are popping back up out of nowhereland.

@ADarklore, Most solo pve content is generally considered easy, go to pvp or higher end pve and a lot of sorc's are put into the same few skills to be competitive. And with so many of the classes skills being either very expensive, scaling only off of magicka or both most non-light armored sorcs can't really use them. Even in 2.1.2 that hasn't changed in my opinion.

Zlater

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

How about no changes cause they seem perfectly fine to me on PTS still crystal fragging every where and shield stacking shields that still cover there entire health bar even after that so called "shield nerf". IMO

I feel like its best just to ignore this guy

ADarklore wrote: »

Perhaps because Sorcery is fine the way it is. In fact, I got bored with my Sorc because I was destroying everything and anything within seconds. Most of the time it isn't the class that is the problem, it is the players who want to 'play their way' and expect all powers to do the same exact damage no matter what they choose. You just have to learn to utilize the powers that do the most damage and learn a rotation that maximizes their potential. Of course I only do PvE, but in PvE I'm finding little to no challenge for my Sorc- not even Group bosses anymore.

@ADarklore group bosses are meant to be solo'd ;P

@CP5 says it perfectly, I've had my vr14 sorc. for a long time, and I've had my vr1 temp for a while now too. Something I love doing is just running around craglorn and doing all of the groupish delves there, they are each unique and interesting, but not so hard that they aren't worth doing alone. haha I can do it with both my sorc and temp, but if you were to ask me which one seems easier, definitely the temp. I prefer my sorc, because it challenges me to use different skills and gear for different bosses and that's cool. On my vr1 temp its pretty much exactly the same rotation every time, its just that easy. Even without end game gear I find my DPS on my temp is super close to that of my sorc. There's no difference in player skill or champion points, or even weapon choices, so those are out of the question, the only things that are left are class skills and armor, as the armor is lesser on my temp, I think we can say safely its the class that is the difference.

However I do have a heavy armor magicka sorc tank build that is uber strong, but if you know what it uses, you'll be surprised to find, most of the fundamentals of sorc tanking are almost exactly the same as my PvP build, there really is not any variation; except obviously the deeps focus ;D.

olsborg

Dracane wrote: »

Mage's Fury:

Or: Since the Templar Jesus Beam procs at 50% health, there is no reason to be silent anymore: I want to proc mage's fury at the same rate or at least way higher than 20%.

It actually only proccs on 19%, and its delayed, if people manage to heal back up from 19% within 1 second, sometimes 2...the explotion never happens. This execute is weak.