Templar Jabs CC Immunity

Halfwitte

Now with the usage of the jabs granting CC immunity I can no longer CC the target with any other form of CC effectively giving the target a no cost stun break. So even If I wanted to mix it up with say a jab and then toss a spear to knock them back it won't work, because the target has CC immunity completely nullifying the effectiveness of my other CC abilities, so I am actually handicapping myself by using one of my abilities that used to be effective. Why not help everyone who is tired of being stun locked or just stunned period? Make any ability that causes a stun grant CC immunity after the stun ends to the recipient of the stun. All stuns would then carry diminishing returns. This way we don't have to waste stamina breaking free, thus fixing the problem of the purported stamina transfer loss from live to 1.6 and those who choose to use stuns will have to be very tactical and creative in their usage and we could still stun break out of the stun when they chose to use it allowing stun recipients tactical usage of stun break. This way you have the option to stun break if you so desire should you have the stamina to do so and avoid the damage you would take while stunned or just take the free CC immunity that will come afterwards anyway. It's an all around win for everyone that might be worried about ever being stunned in PVE and PVP including the monsters who catch the brunt of it. The monsters rarely get a voice on the forums and I'm sure they're really tired of us taking their sweet rolls while they're stunned.
On the other hand I still enjoying wiping out monsters, but now if I miss time my jab anticipating interrupting an ability a monster would use, that is only interruptible with a stun I can't use a secondary stun to interrupt the ability, because they have CC immunity and neither can anyone else in the party. An example being the second wave Large spider during the third boss fight in Veteran Spindle Clutch where the Heavy attack could be interrupted with a jab preventing someone from getting knocked back if they didn't block. Now any templar could unwittingly provide CC immunity for monsters instead of actually crowd controlling the monster. Another example of PvP balancing or unbalancing having a dramatic effect on those of us who would like to continue PvE unmolested by such balance changes. A buddy of mine used to complain about all the stuns in PvP saying that it was ruining the experience, because he spent all of his time stunned. I would tell him to just stun break it's an easy fix and he would reply with, "but I don't want to." No worries buddy now you don't have to if it's a templar using jabs and he will keep you from being stunned by anyone else too, just eat it since it doesn't do that much damage either. Please come back and PvP with me, I'm sure forward camps will come back soon too and they'll make talons and petrify block able along with every other snare so you don't even have to dodge roll anymore.

Long live the Templar execute in all it's current DPS glory, Monsters might finally rightfully fear us for something other than "LF Temp healz for AA or HRC or Daily Pledge, Sorc healz need not apply." But wait, heals are getting reworked as well!

Mumyo

I didnt read it but i dont like the change aswell. It ccs u for not even half a second and grants immunity^^

Asgari

Why should Templars be allowed to perma cc npcs and players?

derpsticks

Why not put a cooldown on the cc portion of jabs? This way you can use the skill over and over but the cc will only trigger every other time it is used.

ToRelax

derpsticks wrote: »

Why not put a cooldown on the cc portion of jabs? This way you can use the skill over and over but the cc will only trigger every other time it is used.

So Templar only gives cc immunity to begin of the fight? Sounds fair...

Dracane

I am no Templar. But this is a bit unfair indeed. If a target gains full CC immunity after one Jab.

I fear, the only solution is to remove the CC of biting jabs from the game.

jopeymonster

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Why should Templars be allowed to perma cc npcs and players?

Why should a Templar ability be the only one that grants CC immunity?

Just because ZOS did a bad job designing and coding the ability doesn't mean that it should punish the entire class.

tplink3r1

They need to give it an auto-aim.

derpsticks

No no, I mean remove cc immunity from jabs, just make the first skill use cause the enemy to be stunned a bit, then if spammed again the second use wont stun. This give the enemy enough time to avoid the stun lock but prevents other stuns from being useless.

Warraxx

Halfwitte wrote: »

Now with the usage of the jabs granting CC immunity I can no longer CC the target with any other form of CC effectively giving the target a no cost stun break. So even If I wanted to mix it up with say a jab and then toss a spear to knock them back it won't work, because the target has CC immunity completely nullifying the effectiveness of my other CC abilities, so I am actually handicapping myself by using one of my abilities that used to be effective. Why not help everyone who is tired of being stun locked or just stunned period? Make any ability that causes a stun grant CC immunity after the stun ends to the recipient of the stun. All stuns would then carry diminishing returns. This way we don't have to waste stamina breaking free, thus fixing the problem of the purported stamina transfer loss from live to 1.6 and those who choose to use stuns will have to be very tactical and creative in their usage and we could still stun break out of the stun when they chose to use it allowing stun recipients tactical usage of stun break. This way you have the option to stun break if you so desire should you have the stamina to do so and avoid the damage you would take while stunned or just take the free CC immunity that will come afterwards anyway. It's an all around win for everyone that might be worried about ever being stunned in PVE and PVP including the monsters who catch the brunt of it. The monsters rarely get a voice on the forums and I'm sure they're really tired of us taking their sweet rolls while they're stunned.
On the other hand I still enjoying wiping out monsters, but now if I miss time my jab anticipating interrupting an ability a monster would use, that is only interruptible with a stun I can't use a secondary stun to interrupt the ability, because they have CC immunity and neither can anyone else in the party. An example being the second wave Large spider during the third boss fight in Veteran Spindle Clutch where the Heavy attack could be interrupted with a jab preventing someone from getting knocked back if they didn't block. Now any templar could unwittingly provide CC immunity for monsters instead of actually crowd controlling the monster. Another example of PvP balancing or unbalancing having a dramatic effect on those of us who would like to continue PvE unmolested by such balance changes. A buddy of mine used to complain about all the stuns in PvP saying that it was ruining the experience, because he spent all of his time stunned. I would tell him to just stun break it's an easy fix and he would reply with, "but I don't want to." No worries buddy now you don't have to if it's a templar using jabs and he will keep you from being stunned by anyone else too, just eat it since it doesn't do that much damage either. Please come back and PvP with me, I'm sure forward camps will come back soon too and they'll make talons and petrify block able along with every other snare so you don't even have to dodge roll anymore.

Long live the Templar execute in all it's current DPS glory, Monsters might finally rightfully fear us for something other than "LF Temp healz for AA or HRC or Daily Pledge, Sorc healz need not apply." But wait, heals are getting reworked as well!

http://writingcenter.unc.edu/handouts/paragraphs/

ToRelax

derpsticks wrote: »

No no, I mean remove cc immunity from jabs, just make the first skill use cause the enemy to be stunned a bit, then if spammed again the second use wont stun. This give the enemy enough time to avoid the stun lock but prevents other stuns from being useless.

Ah I see, sry then .

I think that would be fair.

Xeniph

The issue is that they can't reliably find a way to allow the Templar to keep the interrupt and grant immunity after just one use.

Their options are limited and complicated.

They can't keep it how it was, as we can all agree in pvp is was not right. So they are trying to adjust it, to save complicated coding time.

Probably the most reasonable fix would to be remove any CC effect from the ability, therefore it wouldn't grant any immunity. While not ideal, from a Templars' standpoint, I would be fine with that solution. Or even function like any other interrupt, and do nothing unless it actually interrupts an ability.

Personally I would like to see all interrupts on abilities removed. Further promoting skillful gameplay and ability use.

To include:

Poison Arrow
Crushing Shock

However they deal with it, the only true way of fixing it and making it work as I believe they intended. They will have to change the mechanics and code of CC, which would be a long, tedious and costly endeavor. And since they have shown time and again they just can't seem to tweak working systems without screwing them up, I prefer they not mess with it lol.

derpsticks

It would not be complicated to do what I suggested. Just look at bolt escape. It would work in the same way but instead of increased cost it would prevent another stun if the skill was used again within say 2 seconds.

LtCrunch

jopeymonster wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Why should Templars be allowed to perma cc npcs and players?

Why should a Templar ability be the only one that grants CC immunity?

Just because ZOS did a bad job designing and coding the ability doesn't mean that it should punish the entire class.

I'm pretty sure Jabs was the only ability with a knockback that didn't apply CC immunity, now it does.

technohic

Dracane wrote: »

I am no Templar. But this is a bit unfair indeed. If a target gains full CC immunity after one Jab.

I fear, the only solution is to remove the CC of biting jabs from the game.

I agree. It Just can't be both the best damage stamina ability for Templars as well as a cc.

Halfwitte

http://writingcenter.unc.edu/handouts/paragraphs/[/quote]

I attempted to use tab to break it up into paragraphs, but It did not post in the paragraph format. It was my mistake and my first time posting on the forums. Instead it posted like you see it now without the appropriate spacing. Although your link was quite informative on paragraphing, it had nothing constructive to say on the original topic, which I found quite disappointing. I failed to see how your "Jab" at the lack of indentations in the post to indicate where the paragraphs are has anything constructive to say regarding Templar "Jabs" mechanics. I apologize for not taking the time to post an unrelated link to the topic regarding the relationship of the words in quotation marks and I sincerely hope you can figure out the "Jab" I'm making without it.

timidobserver

Since it grants immunity now, they should increase the stun duration by about 1-2 seconds or so. It sucks blowing an immunity on a knockback.

Kragorn

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Why should Templars be allowed to perma cc npcs and players?

Because if that's the only way ZOS can keep it viable in PVE.

This game's PVE is being destroyed by the endless pandering to PVP QQ, I see no reason to think ZOS are even bothering to take into account the damaging effects of this nerf-swarm on PVE.

Fayaburn

Biting Jabs is a hard CC. Hard CC trigger CC immunity. What is the problem here?
Permastun is a very bad game design and should never be allowed.

KeplerMG

Dracane wrote: »

I am no Templar. But this is a bit unfair indeed. If a target gains full CC immunity after one Jab.

I fear, the only solution is to remove the CC of biting jabs from the game.

Yeah, lets do that and lets remove all other CC from the game as well.

FFS...

The game is going all wrong with this. CC avoidance/immunity should always require an action from the player being CC'ed and cost stamina. This is not a turned based game. Nothing should be automatic. Everything should be a result of keyboard/mouse input. Besides, everyone uses immovable these days. Even the nerfed PTS immovable. And that one split second that you don't have it on, you can get locked down with a CC bomb that you cant break free from or dodge roll out of, making you wonder what all this talk about CC immunity is about.

tplink3r1

Fayaburn wrote: »

Biting Jabs is a hard CC. Hard CC trigger CC immunity. What is the problem here?
Permastun is a very bad game design and should never be allowed.

Decent players dont run out of stamina frequently.

Nijjion

Only fix seems for your situation is take the CC off biting jabs or deal with the CC immunity when you use Biting Jabs.

Been way too long for Temps to have the only way to perma stun someone.

jopeymonster wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Why should Templars be allowed to perma cc npcs and players?

Why should a Templar ability be the only one that grants CC immunity?

All the skills that go through block should get the immunity as well if you don't break out of it e.g. fear ect.

KeplerMG

Nerfs launch out of ZOS rear end with the same wild abandon as orders for execution by beheading are launched out of the mouth of the red queen from alice in wonderland.

Bouvin

Halfwitte wrote: »

Now with the usage of the jabs granting CC immunity I can no longer CC the target with any other form of CC effectively giving the target a no cost stun break. So even If I wanted to mix it up with say a jab and then toss a spear to knock them back it won't work, because the target has CC immunity completely nullifying the effectiveness of my other CC abilities, so I am actually handicapping myself by using one of my abilities that used to be effective. Why not help everyone who is tired of being stun locked or just stunned period? Make any ability that causes a stun grant CC immunity after the stun ends to the recipient of the stun. All stuns would then carry diminishing returns. This way we don't have to waste stamina breaking free, thus fixing the problem of the purported stamina transfer loss from live to 1.6 and those who choose to use stuns will have to be very tactical and creative in their usage and we could still stun break out of the stun when they chose to use it allowing stun recipients tactical usage of stun break. This way you have the option to stun break if you so desire should you have the stamina to do so and avoid the damage you would take while stunned or just take the free CC immunity that will come afterwards anyway. It's an all around win for everyone that might be worried about ever being stunned in PVE and PVP including the monsters who catch the brunt of it. The monsters rarely get a voice on the forums and I'm sure they're really tired of us taking their sweet rolls while they're stunned.
On the other hand I still enjoying wiping out monsters, but now if I miss time my jab anticipating interrupting an ability a monster would use, that is only interruptible with a stun I can't use a secondary stun to interrupt the ability, because they have CC immunity and neither can anyone else in the party. An example being the second wave Large spider during the third boss fight in Veteran Spindle Clutch where the Heavy attack could be interrupted with a jab preventing someone from getting knocked back if they didn't block. Now any templar could unwittingly provide CC immunity for monsters instead of actually crowd controlling the monster. Another example of PvP balancing or unbalancing having a dramatic effect on those of us who would like to continue PvE unmolested by such balance changes. A buddy of mine used to complain about all the stuns in PvP saying that it was ruining the experience, because he spent all of his time stunned. I would tell him to just stun break it's an easy fix and he would reply with, "but I don't want to." No worries buddy now you don't have to if it's a templar using jabs and he will keep you from being stunned by anyone else too, just eat it since it doesn't do that much damage either. Please come back and PvP with me, I'm sure forward camps will come back soon too and they'll make talons and petrify block able along with every other snare so you don't even have to dodge roll anymore.

Long live the Templar execute in all it's current DPS glory, Monsters might finally rightfully fear us for something other than "LF Temp healz for AA or HRC or Daily Pledge, Sorc healz need not apply." But wait, heals are getting reworked as well!

Wall of text crits you for 198k damage.

Cinbri

Jabs in current state useless, deal with it and live on

Domander

timidobserver wrote: »

Since it grants immunity now, they should increase the stun duration by about 1-2 seconds or so. It sucks blowing an immunity on a knockback.

I agree, it's almost better not to use it since it'll prevent a decent CC

ArconSeptim

i agree yes, remove jabs and sun shield from the game

KeplerMG

Jabs was just a newb killer... for killing terribads who dont know how to dodge roll, strafe, and or use immovable. Now its nothing. Complete garbage. All of you who are in favor of this nerf have shown, in grand fashion, just how terribad you really are.

pppontus

I can see that some people have not been on the pointy end of the stick that cannot be CC broken but rather require a perfectly timed dodge that can not be performed in the current (very laggy) state of Cyrodiil.

Sucks that it applies immunity automatically, but broken mechanic was broken. They could have just provided immunity to knockback or something that made it so you couldn't just continue jabs > jabs > jabs > jabs > jabs.

I don't think anyone liked locking people into jabs either, at least I didn't do it as I don't enjoy exploiting broken mechanics..

technohic

Yeah, I am not sure why people want to hold on to it doing the CC it does now on live but at the same time, on test what appears to be our best stamina DPS winds up being a free CC immunity to our target.

The CC just needs to be removed from it or changed to be a snare/root.

pppontus

technohic wrote: »

Yeah, I am not sure why people want to hold on to it doing the CC it does now on live but at the same time, on test what appears to be our best stamina DPS winds up being a free CC immunity to our target.

The CC just needs to be removed from it or changed to be a snare/root.

I liked the suggestion above about it having a cooldown on the actual knockback, so if you chaincast it you only have a knockback every 3 times or so.