champions system is a timesink not funny at all

Sharee

Dreamo84 wrote: »

I think it's weird that Vet ranks are still in. Especially if 1.6 is the version consoles are getting at launch. Just seems odd they are going to launch on consoles with a system in place that's basically just leftover and destined to be removed soon as they get around to it.

They are still in because removing them means re-itemizing the whole late game content. It would take too long, and they wanted to release the champion system as soon as possible.

However i am pretty sure vet ranks will be removed before the console launch. No point needlessly confusing the console players by introducing them to a system and then removing it shortly after.

Elsonso

Dreamo84 wrote: »

I think it's weird that Vet ranks are still in. Especially if 1.6 is the version consoles are getting at launch. Just seems odd they are going to launch on consoles with a system in place that's basically just leftover and destined to be removed soon as they get around to it.

I expected Veteran Ranks to be in Update 6, but I did not expect them to be in Console. ZOS certainly seems to have quietly backed off on the whole Champion System phase 4 concept. I think that Champion System phase 3 will focus on complementing Veteran Ranks. They will not remove Veteran Ranks for a long time, if ever.

Champion System is obviously not designed to be played, it is just designed to be there. The rewards for the effort are far too small to be intended to be the focus of a goal or activity.

Maybe they realized that they cannot remove Veteran Ranks until they have more for the Level 50 people to do that replaces it.

jmunkxb14_ESO

Joejudas wrote: »

If you had a dollar you worked for and someone took it and gave you back 99 pennies...you wouldn't be upset ?

bad analogy, I'd love to have to pay only 1% income tax.

Jando

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

The very point of an alternative advancement system is to be almost, but not absolutely, meaningless, and to last almost, but not absolutely, forever.

I'm glad we both agree that the Champion System, as proposed, is meaningless. For whatever reason, you think that would be fun. I don't.

I would rather tighten/shorten up that system and make all of the power it contains accessible to all players quicker, so that we can actually "feel" it.

It's just sad that the UI Team did such a great job on a meaningless system.

To all of you who keep saying the point of an MMO is to be a timesink/grind.....you're wrong. The point of an MMO is to be fun. From a business perspective, it should be so fun, that people want to keep spending time in the world and will pay to keep enjoying that experience, to enhance that experience, and to extend that experience by buying new content.

KhajitFurTrader

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

To all of you who keep saying the point of an MMO is to be a timesink/grind.....you're wrong. The point of an MMO is to be fun. From a business perspective, it should be so fun, that people want to keep spending time in the world and will pay to keep enjoying that experience, to enhance that experience, and to extend that experience by buying new content.

I concur with the fun part. Playing any MMOs at all is ideally a huge waste of time and fun at the same time. Otherwise, what would be the point?

Rev Rielle

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

The very point of an alternative advancement system is to be almost, but not absolutely, meaningless, and to last almost, but not absolutely, forever.

I'm glad we both agree that the Champion System, as proposed, is meaningless. For whatever reason, you think that would be fun. I don't.

I would rather tighten/shorten up that system and make all of the power it contains accessible to all players quicker, so that we can actually "feel" it.

It's just sad that the UI Team did such a great job on a meaningless system.

To all of you who keep saying the point of an MMO is to be a timesink/grind.....you're wrong. The point of an MMO is to be fun. From a business perspective, it should be so fun, that people want to keep spending time in the world and will pay to keep enjoying that experience, to enhance that experience, and to extend that experience by buying new content.

It was never intended by ZOS that we play the Champion System. It's designed as something that goes on in the background, whilst we actually play the game content with our characters. The fun part is doing whatever it is we enjoy doing in MMOs; questing, PvPing, dungeoning, etc etc, both now and for years to come.

Razzak

Rev Rielle wrote: »

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

The very point of an alternative advancement system is to be almost, but not absolutely, meaningless, and to last almost, but not absolutely, forever.

I'm glad we both agree that the Champion System, as proposed, is meaningless. For whatever reason, you think that would be fun. I don't.

I would rather tighten/shorten up that system and make all of the power it contains accessible to all players quicker, so that we can actually "feel" it.

It's just sad that the UI Team did such a great job on a meaningless system.

To all of you who keep saying the point of an MMO is to be a timesink/grind.....you're wrong. The point of an MMO is to be fun. From a business perspective, it should be so fun, that people want to keep spending time in the world and will pay to keep enjoying that experience, to enhance that experience, and to extend that experience by buying new content.

It was never intended by ZOS that we play the Champion System. It's designed as something that goes on in the background, whilst we actually play the game content with our characters. The fun part is doing whatever it is we enjoy doing in MMOs; questing, PvPing, dungeoning, etc etc, both now and for years to come.

But doesn't that imply there are new quests, PVP options, dungeons, etc, etc in these years to come? It depends, of course, on how long can you play same quests, PVP, dungeons etc, etc, before you become bored. And where is the fun in that?

Jando

Rev Rielle wrote: »

It was never intended by ZOS that we play the Champion System. It's designed as something that goes on in the background, whilst we actually play the game content with our characters. The fun part is doing whatever it is we enjoy doing in MMOs; questing, PvPing, dungeoning, etc etc, both now and for years to come.

It's well known that the Champion System was designed to replace the very boring, grindy, lackluster, and uninspiring Veteran system. In my opinion the Champion system is much worse.

Whether or not they actually remove Veteran ranks at this point remains to be seen...I really hope so.

Joejudas

alot of us dont play to gain things in the background....and i would venture to say most people dont play mmo's to gain exp in the background and not care about it...and especially not ones we pay for. stop generalizing this whole game into a big rp gathering cause it isnt.

Muizer

Joejudas wrote: »

This new system hurts the higher level player players the most because they were wearing the end game armor that got nerfed the most.

You're right about that. In general, if you went to extremes to optimise your build to the current system, then a big overhaul like 1.6 is obviously going to hurt you a lot.

Joejudas wrote: »

If all the end game gear stays ruined and they dont tweak the cp system to let us gain them faster this games population will have an exodus.

I think you're wrong about this though. People may leave for other reasons, but I suspect the kind of player who is hit that hard only makes up a very small percentage of the player population.


I guess it's as with evolution: the most successful species at any time may be the ones best adapted to the current situation, but these are also most likely to go extinct when a drastic change in environment happens. Will you by the dynosaur to the impact of 1.6?

Joejudas

Muizer wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

This new system hurts the higher level player players the most because they were wearing the end game armor that got nerfed the most.

You're right about that. In general, if you went to extremes to optimise your build to the current system, then a big overhaul like 1.6 is obviously going to hurt you a lot.

Joejudas wrote: »

If all the end game gear stays ruined and they dont tweak the cp system to let us gain them faster this games population will have an exodus.

I think you're wrong about this though. People may leave for other reasons, but I suspect the kind of player who is hit that hard only makes up a very small percentage of the player population.


I guess it's as with evolution: the most successful species at any time may be the ones best adapted to the current situation, but these are also most likely to go extinct when a drastic change in environment happens. Will you by the dynosaur to the impact of 1.6?

this has nothing to with evolution. it does have to do with me paying money to play a game and advance a character that i can just throw in the garbage now. someone from my guild told me last night after we broke down all the changes and solutions and told me " your best bet is just to roll a new character cause the one you have now is uselss". Do you have any idea how angry that made me.

TheShadowScout

Joejudas wrote: »

this has nothing to with evolution. it does have to do with me paying money to play a game and advance a character that i can just throw in the garbage now. someone from my guild told me last night after we broke down all the changes and solutions and told me " your best bet is just to roll a new character cause the one you have now is uselss". Do you have any idea how angry that made me.

I'd be angry at the person who said that in a case such as this... never liked people who talk that kind of garbage...
Of course, I never subscribed to the viewpoint that every character not min-maxed to super-effectiveness is "useless".

But then again, I see usefulness in allowing me to have fun playing my character, not in dominating PvP or getting the fastest time in trials/dungeon runs... I see my characters as characters after all, not as collection of stats.
I expect whatever changes come in the final live version, I will still have fun playing my characters, maybe with a few adaptations to playstyle here and there. And very much enjoy getting small ChSys rewards for playing the game the way I like... Maybe you would be well served adjusting your mindset and find an alternate view of "usefulness"? Enjoy the game, not the goal, that sort of thing? Your choice I suppose...

Elron87

I suppose the difference between the champion system and the veteran rank system is not so much the time sink aspect but the removal of the barrier associated with veteran ranks, preventing people from doing end game content. I was one of those people who got to lvl 50, wanted to do end game content but soon realised I was only 1/3 of the way and soon left awaiting a new system.

As previously mentioned, the time sync associated with the champion system is not so much you being forced to grind max points but more of a passive points system in the background rewarding you for your time spend in game.

wafcatb14_ESO

It`s nothing new , as soon as they announced they were going to add a champion point system, I knew it would be basically the same thing Everquest had with their Alternative Advancement Exp points,

They had exp points that you could earn to but ablities, increased duration of buffs, etc simlar to what ESO is doing and yep it was a grind , as when it launched they had like 500 AA points worth of ablities and every expansion they added a few hundreded more .

Its not that big of an issue really, the thing that is annoying is for the last year , our subs went to the development of the consel system and cash store and not to fix bugs, or any of the poorly designed features in game

like the lame guild functions, non working LFG tools, the crappy guild store, hell the front gate of Faerrgut keep in Cryodill has been glowing brillant white since pts back in Dec 2013 and is still like that .

Over 1k of my guildes have quit ESO since launch, we started with 1300 now we have 220 left . because of how bad they were at fixing anything or had bad stuff was designed . an don`t blame then hell the game is going free to play and I `m not sure if it`s even worth playing since they can`t figure out how to fix anything.

Took them 1 patch to screw up cryodill . and a month to try and fix it . and even now the game runs like crap. it ran better in closed beta pre launch.

Bouvin

Joejudas wrote: »

no they set it high so they could sell people xp boosts for money a month after 1.6 drops

And anyone that thinks this wasn't the plan all along has never experienced a game that gets its recurring revenue from the Cash Shop.

"Convenience" is a VERY loosely used terms by MMO companies when it comes to cash shop purposes.

c0rp

At the current point gain rate...im set for the next 9+ years.

washlov

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

The point of an MMO is to be fun

yea and champion points don't make fun, a new skill makes fun!
champion points only cost time and split the players unnecessary
the itemisation, skill, time to play ..... already splits enough

KerinKor

washlov wrote: »

it has no fun
it's a time sink only good for farmers 24/7 players simply nobody needs this
a nice idea but badly done
what do you think? anything worthy there?
the time for this would be better invested in real content
a good trading system, spellcrafting, pvp content, duels,
new colors for your armor .........

It's an MMO, what do you expect at level cap between content updates?

washlov

i expect a level cap!!! to play with my friends and new players with all players which started later.....
i expect playing a game with fun mechanics skills quests jokes epic moments.....but why i need a system which passively split the players?
gear does this already but you can help buddys with gear

KerinKor

washlov wrote: »

i expect a level cap!!! to play with my friends and new players with all players which started later.....

So you're happy to play in your own little ghetto with those who started with you, and new players can go hang for all your care?

I see.

washlov

i dont know whats your point
take of your rose-colored glasses!

Tapio75

Perphaps when people are talking in various aspects of ESO that "This is nature of MMO" "It is an MMO" "Nothing else can be done in MMO" "MMO needs levels" "MMO needs timesinks"

You see those three ugly letters forming MMO?

Just maybe ESO could be developed a bit, maybe much different goals in mind. World is full of decent MMO's and even more *** MMO's.. Maybe remember that MMO only means Massively Multiplayer Online and thus, does not really require anything people think it needs.. Maybe it is better to remember that these were originally called MMORPG's instead and those 3 latter letters mean RolePlaying Game..

Maybe ESO needs, yes NEEDS to be developed to be as good RPG as it can be with support for massive number of players. Then we could have something really different that not necessarily please you MMO fanboys but would draw in new kind of of player base that really loves immersion and all the great things that free form RPG can offer to people, only sky is limit and universe is big.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

Anyone who thinks you need to max the cp system simply has no clue whatsoever. There are so many skills that simply can not improve every build, for example, all the passives improving all the armors and weapons that your build doesn't use........... Use some sense people more will be good but max will be useless.

Jando

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

Anyone who thinks you need to max the cp system simply has no clue whatsoever. There are so many skills that simply can not improve every build, for example, all the passives improving all the armors and weapons that your build doesn't use........... Use some sense people more will be good but max will be useless.

The whole thing is a meaningless grind anyway. No one will want to max it out.

My suggestion is to speed it up and actually make exciting, so that people want to, and can, max it out. That would be fun.

washlov

its like a 3rd or 4th skill/stat system in game nobody needs this

anyone have a few positiv or fun things about the CP system?

Rhakon

The CS does not contribute to Individuality or role specific diversity at all.
Its a lame Grind, a timesink to sell XP-Boosters..

There is no FUN in this buggy conception and it destroys PvP!

I'll have no problem to get points,
but i hate unfair, usless, Time-devouring, Community-splitting Systems like this!

Turn off CS in Cyrodiil!!

SteveCampsOut

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

1. Each point is too expensive (in xp)

Your opinion. Not shared by everyone.

2. Each point is too weak in what it offers

CP's were designed to have minute affect on your character, unlike skill points.

3. There are too many points in total.

CP's were designed to take years to complete not weeks days or hours!

4. 1, 2, and 3, above, make the proposed system an endless, meaningless grind

That was the point! CP's are a time sink to keep people advancing slowly!

5. There is no way for many Veteran players to participate in the system because they have exhausted much of the quest content that grants the chunks of xp needed to advance in the system.

That's just plain false!

6. 4, above, means that the conversion of VR level to Champion points is fundamentally flawed because it fails to consider completed quest content.

Again false!

7. To solve 5, above, there needs to be a significant grant of additional Champion Points to players based on the quest content they have completed.

False!

CP's are not here to satisfy your need for gimme gimme treats! If you have bothered to go back and read what they were meant to be when originally announced they were made to be a long lasting progression for end game players to work on without grinding! They were never meant to make drastic changes to your character! They are for a slow steady increase over a long period of time.

Messy1

Dreamo84 wrote: »

I think the mistake is looking at the Champion system as something that you need to focus on it's own as a piece of content.

This system just sets the stage for long term progression and won't feel like a grind when new DLC comes out.

I think the Champ system is big enough and long enough that the majority of players won't feel like it's something they constantly have to think about. Yeah there will be some hardcore players trying to max it as fast as they can. But do you really see yourself saying "I'm gonna go grind champ points today"?

At first people will be more aware of it, but eventually it will just kinda float to the back of your mind and you'll randomly notice you earned a champ point while you were doing other things.

THAT is the point of the system. Diablo 3 has a very similar system with Paragon Levels and it works exactly like that. At first I was actively looking to gain levels but eventually you stop focusing.

Ugh it sucks comparisons are being drawn between D3 and ESO. I stopped playing D3 after a few months cause the grind got RIDICULOUS and there was not enough content. Please ZOS fix the issues there's so much about ESO I do like.

Wolfshead

washlov wrote: »

it has no fun
it's a time sink only good for farmers 24/7 players simply nobody needs this
a nice idea but badly done
what do you think? anything worthy there?
the time for this would be better invested in real content
a good trading system, spellcrafting, pvp content, duels,
new colors for your armor .........

Yes and No ofc it is timesink like most mmo do have timesink but if you are enlightenment it is not that much of timesink to be honest

Jando

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

1. Each point is too expensive (in xp)

Your opinion. Not shared by everyone.

2. Each point is too weak in what it offers

CP's were designed to have minute affect on your character, unlike skill points.

3. There are too many points in total.

CP's were designed to take years to complete not weeks days or hours!

4. 1, 2, and 3, above, make the proposed system an endless, meaningless grind

That was the point! CP's are a time sink to keep people advancing slowly!

5. There is no way for many Veteran players to participate in the system because they have exhausted much of the quest content that grants the chunks of xp needed to advance in the system.

That's just plain false!

6. 4, above, means that the conversion of VR level to Champion points is fundamentally flawed because it fails to consider completed quest content.

Again false!

7. To solve 5, above, there needs to be a significant grant of additional Champion Points to players based on the quest content they have completed.

False!

CP's are not here to satisfy your need for gimme gimme treats! If you have bothered to go back and read what they were meant to be when originally announced they were made to be a long lasting progression for end game players to work on without grinding! They were never meant to make drastic changes to your character! They are for a slow steady increase over a long period of time.

Relax, Kiddo.

I know exactly what the point of the Champion System was supposed to be, and what they delivered did not solve the problem at all. It makes it much worse.

It's fine that you have a different opinion. It's clear that you like an endless, meaningless grind. I get it. Since when are treats a bad thing anyway?