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TWOHAND WEAPON LINE unbalanced stacking ?
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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Drinking a potion every time I want to attack someone doesn't sound very ideal (or cheap), especially given the new 45 second potion CDs
I pretty much use a potion in every fight anyway (except for the very one-sided ones, one way or another). Also, stamina potions are not that expensive - dragonthorn and blessed thistle are a byproduct of farming columbine and bugloss so i have tons of those in stock.
Still doesn't excuse other people getting the 20% damage boost for free, just by slotting 2H in the other bar.
They still pay the opportunity cost. It blocks a slot, and it prevents them from using abilities that require a certain weapon (for example bow/2h combo won't have healing ward).
In this sense, it is the potion that offers the brutality buff 'for free'.Besides, using that potion before the fight only means that you're most likely going to die (or have to run away) if it is a 1vX situation.
The regen buff a potion gives is quite long (25 seconds).As said, having Momentum give such a strong buff to all physical skills only means that it's going to be a "must have" for stamina builds (except maybe sorcs), and that right there is bad skill design.
I am using weapon power potions on live a lot already, since im a stamina build. 1.6 will change little for me. I am toying with the idea of making 2H my primary weapon, but its not because of the brutality buff (shield from brawler is the only semi-viable shield for a stamina NB, and the momentum heal is almost as good as rapid regeneration on PTS).Edited by Sharee on February 1, 2015 2:06PM1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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Drinking a potion every time I want to attack someone doesn't sound very ideal (or cheap), especially given the new 45 second potion CDs
I pretty much use a potion in every fight anyway (except for the very one-sided ones, one way or another). Also, stamina potions are not that expensive - dragonthorn and blessed thistle are a byproduct of farming columbine and bugloss so i have tons of those in stock.
Still doesn't excuse other people getting the 20% damage boost for free, just by slotting 2H in the other bar.
They still pay the opportunity cost. It blocks a slot, and it prevents them from using abilities that require a certain weapon (for example bow/2h combo won't have healing ward).
-snip-
I don't give a crap about healing wards or self heals. I'm not a healer, and I'm certainly not a shield spammer.
Restoration staff is going to scale with spell damage anyhow, so there's that travesty of "stamina builds" gone.
All I want to do is burst people down, and I don't want to equip a 2H Weapon on either slot to do that, or spend hundreds of potions each day in order to kill one person and then run away.
And no, potion regen buff alone doesn't keep you alive when doing 1vX.Edited by DDuke on February 1, 2015 2:13PM2 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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Drinking a potion every time I want to attack someone doesn't sound very ideal (or cheap), especially given the new 45 second potion CDs
I pretty much use a potion in every fight anyway (except for the very one-sided ones, one way or another). Also, stamina potions are not that expensive - dragonthorn and blessed thistle are a byproduct of farming columbine and bugloss so i have tons of those in stock.
Still doesn't excuse other people getting the 20% damage boost for free, just by slotting 2H in the other bar.
They still pay the opportunity cost. It blocks a slot, and it prevents them from using abilities that require a certain weapon (for example bow/2h combo won't have healing ward).
-snip-
I don't give a crap about healing wards or self heals. I'm not a healer, and I'm certainly not a shield spammer.
Restoration staff is going to scale with spell damage anyhow, so there's that travesty of "stamina builds" gone..
That was just an example. Feel free to replace 'resto staff' with anything else. Point is, by using a 2H weapon you do not get a brutality buff 'for free', you get it for the price of not being able to slot another weapon, and not being able to use it's associated abilities.
Getting a brutality buff from a potion does not limit you this way. Altho using a potion has an opportunity cost of it's own of course, you cannot simply say that getting brutality using a potion you 'pay' and using a 2H you don't. There always is a cost.
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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Drinking a potion every time I want to attack someone doesn't sound very ideal (or cheap), especially given the new 45 second potion CDs
I pretty much use a potion in every fight anyway (except for the very one-sided ones, one way or another). Also, stamina potions are not that expensive - dragonthorn and blessed thistle are a byproduct of farming columbine and bugloss so i have tons of those in stock.
Still doesn't excuse other people getting the 20% damage boost for free, just by slotting 2H in the other bar.
They still pay the opportunity cost. It blocks a slot, and it prevents them from using abilities that require a certain weapon (for example bow/2h combo won't have healing ward).
-snip-
I don't give a crap about healing wards or self heals. I'm not a healer, and I'm certainly not a shield spammer.
Restoration staff is going to scale with spell damage anyhow, so there's that travesty of "stamina builds" gone..
That was just an example. Feel free to replace 'resto staff' with anything else. Point is, by using a 2H weapon you do not get a brutality buff 'for free', you get it for the price of not being able to slot another weapon, and not being able to use it's associated abilities.
Getting a brutality buff from a potion does not limit you this way. Altho using a potion has an opportunity cost of it's own of course, you cannot simply say that getting brutality using a potion you 'pay' and using a 2H you don't. There always is a cost.
And why would I slot another weapon, when 2H is the only one giving the extra 20% damage? Unless I feel like spending hundreds of potions, which I don't (and which won't have 100% uptime either).
I don't see comparable benefits for using Bow or DW, and you don't need more than one weapon bar to deal damage (while you'd use 2H for the buff only).
Momentum should provide "Minor Brutality" buff, not Major, and the remaining 10% should be added to passives or directly to 2H skill damage.
I don't see how that would hurt anyone. Momentum would still be worth using by itself, especially for the HoT (which is quite strong, as you mentioned).
In fact, that'd be a big buff for 2H users in general.Edited by DDuke on February 1, 2015 2:34PM0 -
gendarkb16_ESO✭✭✭I am sorcerer ... but omg the game forces me to be a nightblade(10% crit damage, 10% weapon dmg from stealth, 30% stamina regen) to be a stamina build and burst people down !!!
really stamina potion is the cheapest potion in the game... its an insult that just with 1 potion i can replace surge momentum and evilhunter of my bar
Then, they don't get the buff for free because they are giving up his prefered weapon just to have a buff, its a fair tradeoff. If you play with a 2h you got the buff right now on live 1.5 and in 1.6, if you never play with a 2h and as you said you really want the buff you are sacrificing a whole second bar for that buff, so my point, is not for free.
Still doesn't excuse other people getting the 20% damage boost for free, just by slotting 2H in the other bar.
Anyways I would preffer momentum giving the berserk buff so i can stack it with potions or surge.
Edited by gendarkb16_ESO on February 1, 2015 2:39PM2 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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And why would I slot another weapon, when 2H is the only one giving the extra 20% damage?
That's a question everyone has to answer for himself. Some people might want the AOE damage reduction from DW(which is something you cannot get from a potion). Some might want the range of a bow. Who knows what powerful combos will emerge in a month or two. The patch is still young.
Edited by Sharee on February 1, 2015 2:44PM1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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And why would I slot another weapon, when 2H is the only one giving the extra 20% damage?
That's a question everyone has to answer for himself. Some people might want the AOE damage reduction from DW(which is something you cannot get from a potion). Some might want the range of a bow. Who knows what powerful combos will emerge in a month or two. The patch is still young.
So if you want to play a stealthy assassin focused on burst damage, you've got to slot a 2H weapon.
If you want to be AoE bomber, you slot Dual Wield. Except that I probably still want a 2H sword on the other bar to get a self heal and 20% more damage.
If I want to use ranged attacks, I slot a bow. Except I'll still want to slot 2H on the other bar for 20% more damage on that Snipe.
Gotcha.
Now tell me how this makes sense.
The only person being fine with this, would be one that enjoys using 2H weapons and doesn't give a crap about others.gendarkb16_ESO wrote: »
Then, they don't get the buff for free because they are giving up his prefered weapon just to have a buff, its a fair tradeoff. If you play with a 2h you got the buff right now on live 1.5 and in 1.6, if you never play with a 2h and as you said you really want the buff you are sacrificing a whole second bar for that buff, so my point, is not for free.Still doesn't excuse other people getting the 20% damage boost for free, just by slotting 2H in the other bar.
Anyways I would preffer momentum giving the berserk buff so i can stack it with potions or surge.
I highlighted what you just said.
They can't use their preferred weapon, because they need a buff from another one.
Why on earth should people not be able to use just their preferred weapon, in a RPG?
Your argument makes no sense.
Sigh... common sense seems to be too much for some people these days.Edited by DDuke on February 1, 2015 2:53PM2 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you want to be AoE bomber, you slot Dual Wield. Except that I probably still want a 2H sword on the other bar to get a self heal and 20% more damage.
Or maybe you want to still have a bow to accompany your aoe bomber bar for situations where aoe bombing isn't possible, and you are willing to get your 20% damage buff from a potion instead of losing the bow.
Edited by Sharee on February 1, 2015 3:08PM0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If you want to be AoE bomber, you slot Dual Wield. Except that I probably still want a 2H sword on the other bar to get a self heal and 20% more damage.
Or maybe you want to still have a bow to accompany your aoe bomber bar for situations where aoe bombing isn't possible, and you are willing to get your 20% damage buff from a potion instead of losing the bow.
20% damage every 45 seconds you mean, by consuming a potion. For me, that'd be around 200-300 potions per PvP session.
And since your potion is on CD, you're screwed in a 1vX situation.
Meanwhile, you could just forget the DW, slot 2H for self heals & one shot people with the Momentum buff up. You don't lose much, but gain heals & 20% dmg (without wasting a 45 sec CD potion).
I think the choice here is quite obvious.
Besides, making Momentum give Minor Brutality would not only help build diversity, but actually make it stronger since it'd stack with those potions.
So I'm not sure why you're arguing against a win-win situation.
Maybe you just want to see others suffer & leave the game, because they can't play their preferred character archetype?Edited by DDuke on February 1, 2015 3:15PM0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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Meanwhile, you could just forget the DW, slot 2H for self heals & one shot people with the Momentum buff up. You don't lose much...
You lose the DW. Which is a cost you pay.
Sure, it might not mean much for you, but it might mean a lot for someone else. That's why i said this is something everyone has to decide for himself.
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McDoogs✭✭✭✭
Drinking a potion every time I want to attack someone doesn't sound very ideal (or cheap), especially given the new 45 second potion CDs
I pretty much use a potion in every fight anyway (except for the very one-sided ones, one way or another). Also, stamina potions are not that expensive - dragonthorn and blessed thistle are a byproduct of farming columbine and bugloss so i have tons of those in stock.
Still doesn't excuse other people getting the 20% damage boost for free, just by slotting 2H in the other bar.
Besides, using that potion before the fight only means that you're most likely going to die (or have to run away) if it is a 1vX situation.
As said, having Momentum give such a strong buff to all physical skills only means that it's going to be a "must have" for stamina builds (except maybe sorcs), and that right there is bad skill design.
If this game is going to force me to use 2H in order to play a stealthy assassin competitively, I won't waste a second longer in it.
Alternative solutions:- Make the new Dual Wield cloak ability grant "Major Brutality" as well (atleast one of the morphs).
- Make it available for Bow as well somehow.
It's not 'for free' if you have to use 50% of your weapon slots for it.
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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Drinking a potion every time I want to attack someone doesn't sound very ideal (or cheap), especially given the new 45 second potion CDs
I pretty much use a potion in every fight anyway (except for the very one-sided ones, one way or another). Also, stamina potions are not that expensive - dragonthorn and blessed thistle are a byproduct of farming columbine and bugloss so i have tons of those in stock.
Still doesn't excuse other people getting the 20% damage boost for free, just by slotting 2H in the other bar.
Besides, using that potion before the fight only means that you're most likely going to die (or have to run away) if it is a 1vX situation.
As said, having Momentum give such a strong buff to all physical skills only means that it's going to be a "must have" for stamina builds (except maybe sorcs), and that right there is bad skill design.
If this game is going to force me to use 2H in order to play a stealthy assassin competitively, I won't waste a second longer in it.
Alternative solutions:- Make the new Dual Wield cloak ability grant "Major Brutality" as well (atleast one of the morphs).
- Make it available for Bow as well somehow.
It's not 'for free' if you have to use 50% of your weapon slots for it.
That's kind of the problem isn't it?
If I slotted 2H just because I need the buff, then I'd have only one bar to play with (because I don't want to use 2H) instead of two.
Essentially, this makes the following setups useless:
DW/DW (which I would like to do), DW/Bow, Bow/Bow
Everything useful for PvE & PvP will involve 2H, simply because of the 20% more damage.
I can't understand why you people don't see a problem with this.
You do know there are people who do not like 2H, right?
People who'd like to use other weapons, to play a different type of character without becoming 20% worse because of it.
What if Momentum was a bow or DW skill, would you feel fine being forced to slot it on one of the weapon slots? Or what if it was a Destruction Staff skill?
I want people who want their character to use 2H to be able to use it.
I want people who don't want to use 2H be able to not use it, without being punished for it.
I'm not sure I could explain this more clearly.Edited by DDuke on February 1, 2015 3:37PM1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You do know there are people who do not like 2H, right?
People who'd like to use other weapons, to play a different type of character without becoming 20% worse because of it.
Your problem is that you seem to be convinced that anyone who does not slot momentum for the 20% damage buff is 20% worse because of it. That's not necessarily true.
Someone using a potion instead will gain that damage buff, and on top of that he will gain a 20% stamina regen, 20% crit chance, and the freedom of using any weapon he prefers.
Which one of these options is better is entirely up to the player to decide. Some might prefer not having to use potions, like you. Others might prefer the freedom to use any weapon(and their associated skills) they want.
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You do know there are people who do not like 2H, right?
People who'd like to use other weapons, to play a different type of character without becoming 20% worse because of it.
Your problem is that you seem to be convinced that anyone who does not slot momentum for the 20% damage buff is 20% worse because of it. That's not necessarily true.
Someone using a potion instead will gain that damage buff, and on top of that he will gain a 20% stamina regen, 20% crit chance, and the freedom of using any weapon he prefers.
Which one of these options is better is entirely up to the player to decide. Some might prefer not having to use potions, like you. Others might prefer the freedom to use any weapon(and their associated skills) they want.
Ok then, tell me which guy you'd like to have in your raid:- the one that deals 1200DPS 100% of the time
- the one that deals 1200DPS 1/3 of the time (potion duration&cooldown), and 1000DPS 2/3 of the time
Thing is, it's not up for the player to decide, when the other option is simply better (and cheaper)
I'm still not sure why you're arguing. People find this a problem & harmful for build diversity.
What exactly would be the problem with changing it to "Minor Brutality", and then buffing 2H weapon skills by 10% via passives?
End result is the same damage, and then you'd get to use those potions too (since now they stack), and people wouldn't be forced to use a weapon they don't want to use.
I'm trying to understand why you're still arguing, even though you're 100% wrong. Human mind can be fascinating Edited by DDuke on February 1, 2015 4:25PM0 -
Kypho✭✭✭✭Solution: BE MAGICKA AND STACK SHIELDS. And you want to be better, stack more shield to the stacked shield stack. LoL ESO combat....1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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Yet, even after that childish "no I'm not, you are!!" response, you're the one failing to provide a rational argument.What exactly would be the problem with changing it to "Minor Brutality", and then buffing 2H weapon skills by 10% via passives?
End result is the same damage, and then you'd get to use those potions too (since now they stack), and people wouldn't be forced to use a weapon they don't want to use.2 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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Yet, even after that childish "no I'm not, you are!!" response, you're the one failing to provide a rational argument.
I have provided plenty of rational arguments in the previous posts. And if you don't want to receive childish responses, do not make childish claims.
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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Yet, even after that childish "no I'm not, you are!!" response, you're the one failing to provide a rational argument.
I have provided plenty of rational arguments in the previous posts. And if you don't want to receive childish responses, do not make childish claims.
Your only argument is "oh, you can always use potions to be as effective as people using 2H for 1/4 of the time", and I fail to see how that achieves anything but frustration among players not using (or wanting to use) 2H.
Edit: it's actually 1/4th~ of the time* with the new potion cooldown time.
Let's try again:What exactly would be the problem with changing it to "Minor Brutality", and then buffing 2H weapon skills by 10% via passives?
End result is the same damage, and then you'd get to use those potions too (since now they stack), and people wouldn't be forced to use a weapon they don't want to use.Edited by DDuke on February 1, 2015 5:15PM2 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm using 1hd/shield and Bow still on PTS with my DK setup.
Though 2 hander is nice for certain setups I do admit.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Momentum is the only way some classes can get the 20% damage dealt buff. Leave it alone.PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank0 -
Beleron✭✭✭kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »10% for evil hunter. To be honest hitting someone for 12k is like hitting them for 1.2-1.5k in live. It's really not that much. You would need to hit for 12k 3 times in a row to kill most people. Most people will shield, heal, or do something in the time of 3 snipes.
Well first it is 20% as i explained above and second a nb can use surprise attack and easily spam it for 12k hits also. So think about that one...... what does it take, .5 sec per surprise attack? maybe 1 sec for cast and animation ?
This is incorrect. It is a problem of the addon you are using. The critical chance is calculated as a fraction of the number given divided by 200. Evil hunter gives 2099 which is 10.5%.
ok, is there another link to where the calculation is confirmed. Im just going on what I have seen. Did i miss it in patch notes ? Dono if its a misunderstanding, not trying to argue just saying what I found. HOWEVER... honestly.... why not make 1k = 1% ... u know... SIMPLE..... like really....
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Beleron✭✭✭What is needed is the 20% from momentum needs to work like the fighters guild ulti, and be a passive when slotted, only for 2h. Then momentum needs to be an attack. Otherwise since all other major burtality buffs FIRST REQUIRE YOU TO HIT THE TARGET, momentum becomes a forced requirement to max out your burst dps. Since you can activate it beforehand for any stam based weapon builds.
Also 2h is decent dps and was, HOWEVER, this dps came from burst and execute spam. The rest of the fight, its sustained dps, wasn't as high as bow or DW. NOW without the 20% EXCLUSIVE for 2h, it basically looses 20% since all others get it, so it looses its 20% dmg boost over others.
2h used to get all the other dmg boost's + momentum (20%)
Now it just gets all the dmg boosts , no exclusive momentum since all weaps get it.
in short.
ZENIMAX
THIS CHANGE HAS MADE IT SO
momentum is needed for maxing burst stam based dps.
all weaps get momentum's buff so now, all others get the 20% boost, not just 2h, so 2h, looses the 20% more dmg it had over others.1 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Not trying to hijack, and imma letchu finish but:
I know Surge and Momentum won't stack their dmg buffs, but will both heals still apply?0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭What is needed is the 20% from momentum needs to work like the fighters guild ulti, and be a passive when slotted, only for 2h. Then momentum needs to be an attack.
No, it doesn't.
You don't get to ruin Momentum by making it far worse than it was before just because YOU don't want to use a 2hander. Let's just gut the heal entirely because YOU like to dual wield.
Of all the selfish things I have ever read...Also 2h is decent dps and was, HOWEVER, this dps came from burst and execute spam. The rest of the fight, its sustained dps, wasn't as high as bow or DW.
This is also patently false. 2h sustained damage is very high even before the execute phase. Strange how you didn't even seem to know HOW to 2h dps until I TOLD you, and now you are here acting as though you have a clue how the different weapons compared to each other in Trials? Get real.THIS CHANGE HAS MADE IT SO
momentum is needed for maxing burst stam based dps.
Actually, the change makes it so you need to be a Sorc, NB using Power Extraction, use one of the extremely cheap and readily available stamina potions, OR use a 2hander.
ZOS, this guy is going to ruin 2handers for everybody just because he doesn't want to use one. That is an ulterior motive if ever I've heard one.
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Beleron✭✭✭lol. Make the heal passive too, only when the ability is equipped, so less you are swapped onto the 2h bar, it isn't ticking, or make it toggled, like leaching / siphoning strikes. What I want is that 20% to ONLY be fore 2h, not carry over to other weapons. How does that ruin twohand. IT DOESN'T EVEN HURT 2H... how would I be ruining it. IT JUST MEANS ONLY 2H GETS THE BUFFS.
also power extration ect, you first HAVE TO HIT THE TARGET, so you cant just activate then sneak up and burst in pvp... that the point.Edited by Beleron on February 1, 2015 8:45PM1 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lol. Make the heal passive too, only when the ability is equipped, so less you are swapped onto the 2h bar, it isn't ticking, or make it toggled, like leaching / siphoning strikes. What I want is that 20% to ONLY be fore 2h, not carry over to other weapons. How does that ruin twohand. IT DOESN'T EVEN HURT 2H... how would I be ruining it. IT JUST MEANS ONLY 2H GETS THE BUFFS.
also power extration ect, you first HAVE TO HIT THE TARGET, so you cant just activate then sneak up and burst in pvp... that the point.
No weapon set or ability works like that on pts, they want you to make choices on what you want to use.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0
