1.6 looks great, forget about b2p/f2p.

rawne1980b16_ESO

I think some people seem to be under the impression that i'm happy with the changes .... i'm not.

I didn't like it when SWTOR went free to play, I didn't like it when TSW went buy to play and I didn't like it when Rift went free to play .... all games i've put a lot of time into.

The only two I still play are Rift and TSW because BioWare and EA turned SWTOR into an absolute farse based around regular cash shop updates and money grubbing.

The point i've made time and time again, and people have ignored, is that opinions won't change what's going to happen.

Nobody here is important enough to sway that process. Nobody here matters to Zenimax. Not a single person at Zenimax knows anyone here by name nor would remember it if they were told because no one here is important to them.

The people at ZOS answer to the powers that be at Zenimax.

Once the decision to go buy to play was made, it was set in stone. It's going to happen no matter what anyone here thinks.

The one and only reason i'm not arguing against it is because i'm not delusional enough to think anyone that can change that decision gives a horses backside about what any of us want.

The game and company will go on with or without us.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

mistermagic87b14_ESO wrote: »

@frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Ok there's one game that was/is successful with pay to play model on console.

However, I feel it's still not the standard for console gaming - they went the safe route and the route people are used to.

It's all just speculation and I feel it's going to be in the company's favor.

Only time will tell.

Pc players aren't that different than pc players. They just enjou consuming their gameplay in a sofa and with a controller rather than at a desk with keyboard and mouse.

Dcuo and ffxiv show the same trends than pc games.

If a model is a failure on one platform it will be on another too.

@rawne1980b16_ESO‌
Ok, I now get what you say.
I'm not doing it for zos. This thread is addressed to them just in case.

The eve online community did manage to scare CCP away from cash stores, maybe we can reason with zos. But I know we're all nobodies and I don't expect success.

The main reason I do those posts is to educate people for whom this game is the first MMO.
This is a bad change for everyone involved and for future games. People need to know this and understand why.

rawne1980b16_ESO

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

@rawne1980b16_ESO‌
Ok, I now get what you say.
I'm not doing it for zos. This thread is addressed to them just in case.

The eve online community did manage to scare CCP away from cash stores, maybe we can reason with zos. But I know we're all nobodies and I don't expect success.

The main reason I do those posts is to educate people for whom this game is the first MMO.
This is a bad change for everyone involved and for future games. People need to know this and understand why.

Hooray, we finally got there.

I admit it was probably my fault, i'm terrible at explaining what i'm thinking properly. I tend to waffle rather than get to a direct point.

It is a terrible change, i'm with you on that.

Like I said, the only reason i'm not campaigning ZOS to stop it is because i've been here before. I was on the Rift forums trying to stop them going free to play, I know it dropped subs but we still had a pretty decent community. I was on SWTOR's forums trying to stop that going free to play, we all saw what was coming when EA and cash shop would be in the same sentence and we were right.

Rift hasn't been "too bad". The quality of content hasn't dropped too badly since it went free but it suffers a bit here and there.

SWTOR went down faster than Paris Hilton. Quality of ingame content has suffered since most of the focus is on the cash shop.

I don't want this to go down that route. I know I haven't played constantly since it launched but I keep coming back. I'm just dreading this turning into a cash shop bonanza.

Imagine if this followed EA and BioWares example. Hide helmet option in cash shop, display titles in the cash shop, weapon switch in the cash shop, ability to wear certain gear in the cash shop.... It would be ridiculous.

ZOS losing revenue doesn't concern me. That's down to ZOS and Zenimax to make sure people WANT to sub and keep people playing.

What concerns me is things we were told were coming (Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild ... i've given up on housing, I can't see it happening) not coming anymore.

ZOS has already irritated me by holding those back. Those 2 guilds are central to Elder Scrolls and should have been there from the start but that's neither here nor there.

I'm worried content is going to suffer and this buy to play model won't bring in enough revenue for any long term plans.

Joejudas

1.6 doesnt look great, unless you think a hot mess looks good. its terrible and its going to kill the game. 10 months tops.

ashlee17

McDoogs wrote: »

Bloodfang wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Honestly, I'm not that impressed with 1.6 after playing it.

It seems like they nerfed everyone, then are letting you get "back up to par" by spending points in the Champion System.

Which it is taking most people 6-8 hours to get one point while enlightened. You can get down to 1-2 hours while enlightened by grinding Craglorn but who wants to spend 3600-7200 hours of their life doing that.

Seems like they are just setting up for "convenience" cash shop purchases for CP related increases to make a few bucks off of the players base just to get their characters back to where they were pre-1.6.

I for one am very impressed with 1.6.
Not only the game feels much better, plays way better, we're also getting Justice System which is the best Update since launch (should've been at launch, but what the hell the wait was worth it, it's even better than I expected it to be).

About Champion System what did you expect? To grind it? I've predicted it a few months ago that it would be 400k xp per 1 champion point. I've also predicted the fastest guys will need at least 2 years. You know thats the very point of horizontal system, never reaching the progression cap. Your mentality is just wrong. Nobody in their sane mind grinds in a horizontal progression.

Also keep in mind that the previous cap was at 14400, so there is plenty of room for expanding it and making sure not more than 0,001% people ever reach the cap in the lifetime of ESO.

It's not horizontal though, its vertical, and the first 150ish points will be used up just getting our VR14s to current power levels.

Zos are calling the new champion system horizontal but in reality it is vertical.
If you look at the pasives the champion system gives you the majority of them will effect your char the same as 'extra lvls" would. More health magica and Stam etc..

Few of the new pasives could be considered "horizontal progression". Better Chest loot, increased harvesting time are some of the few horizontal skills.

Horizontal progression is about making your char more flexible, vertical progression makes it more powerful. Guess which one the CP system is?

Joejudas

Also people hate this change on the pts right now. Im not sure what land of magic and rainbows the OP is in currently....but it isnt where the rest of the community is currently. Its probably where the people ZOS got feed back from on the buy to play thing are

BlueIllyrian

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

Funkopotamus wrote: »

They have lost even more developers in the last 3 months.. That alone tells me that the people that are left are willing to "Ride this ***** till the wheels fall off"

With the announcement that after 1.6 there will be no other large updates says it all.. My concern is they are going to then just milk players through the cash shop until the wheels actually do fall off and people no longer play the game at all..

Those developers that left did so on their own btw..

No large updates, means that they are focusing on pushing a smooth transition for ESO:TU. They have already stated that content will be put on in forms of DLCs. A player can either get access to these updates by subscribing meaning ESO PLUS (what we do now) or buying the DLC from the crown store.

DLCS WOULD INCLUDE: Imperial City, 2nd phase of Justice system, spell crafting, dark brotherhood and thieves guild, adventure zones (two of which have already been named, forgot the names though) and much more that they probably have not even mentioned yet.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

You assume that:
*dlcs will be quality and quantity
*dlcs will be affordable
*there is more under the rug

In short, wishful thinking without base in facts save few pr bits and pieces.

Care to wager how many problems Justice system alone will introduce and how many months to fix them if ever?

Alphashado

All of these changes sounded great when coupled with VR removal. Now zos is being intentionally silent about phase 4. They are acting exactly like they did when asked about the B2P rumors.

Those of us that have been here for a long time are getting more and more suspicious about this type of silence. The CS is nothing w/o the final phase. Box sales are obviously their bread and butter, but if they were smart, they would understand that issues like the VR grind are still HUGE issues because word will spread. They will not get box revenue when word spreads in the console community that lvl 50 is nothing but a gateway into the longest grind ever developed.

Plus alot of people are on the fence about retaining an optional subscription. If they no longer plan on finishing the CS conversion or if they plan on putting it off for 6+ months, then I will be unsubbing, lots of people will be unsubbing, and they will lose the interest of all the potential console players that might pay for a sub.

It's like they have forgotten the reason they began the conversion to begin with.

The VR grind sucks.

But at the end of the day, I still don't believe they went B2P due to low sub numbers. The game was doing pretty darn well in the last couple months. I still believe it has something to do with sub/console conflicts.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

@rawne1980b16_ESO‌
+1 for the Paris Hilton reference.
I guess we both agree the game is going to "suck" from now on. hark hark hark.

In my opinion, it should be our concern too if ZOS is making revenue or not.
If they aren't, they'll become more desesperate and ruin the game faster. If they are confortable ,they'll be able to work to actually improve the game.

I'm looking to play MMOs for years, and I hate to see a game having potential just die due to a publisher's incompetence.


@Joejudas‌
I'm in the land I explained in the OP.
The change needs tweaking and fixing. That's the purpose of a PTS and hopefully, when it hits live it will be functional.

My point was about hype and how that impacts games. People have resubed for 1.6 more than two months before its actual release.
In principle, people like this change. That the implementation is not yet to par with teh expectations is secundary. Give feedback, send bug reports and so on, and it will get closer to target.

For instance, we already know that they consider adding the healing component of surge to the default ability rather than as a morph.
It's obvious that a patch this large will have issues.

@ashlee17‌
You are correct.
Other people posted about it too and the suggestion to fix it was to have you make a choice of which passives are active at any given time. Similar to how we can unlock everything but only have 10+2 abilities slotted.