[Video] VR Dungeon trash is ridiculously OP & block stamina drain NOT OK for PVE

pppontus

Alright, after doing a little testing despite the awful templates that we were provided with I have some feedback..

First off, the trash in Vet dungeons have become absolutely ridiculous, in some cases like the video below (spiders) they just hit like absolute trucks and take 1-2 seconds to kill even a tank in full heavy receiving constant healing.. in other cases they simply have too much health, like in VR Wayrest Severs some of the trash have 170k HP (while lone bosses have ~500k) making each trash pack a more dangerous and even if they don't hit hard, each pack takes longer to kill than most bosses who don't have adds. Same thing also applies to bosses with adds such as the Lich in WS, if you go for killing all the adds that just takes so long that the next wave spawns and then the next.. etc. At some point we just had to kill 2-3 adds per round and then continue beating the boss while just running around like headless chickens. It worked, but it's just annoying and does not seem intended.

Secondly, the amount of stamina that's now drained by defensive actions like block/dodge.. is this intended? I can see this as possibly being intended for PVP, in PVP it felt "ok".. not exactly good but I can see the point of it.. however PVE is not going to be playable like this in the long run. Basically we had a lot of deaths in trash packs simply because you have to block a large number of attacks (esp. in light armor as they oneshot you now) which drains your stamina insanely quickly and then you get oneshot anyway. Also when I ran as a stamina DPS, it was even more sucky because half the dungeon my stamina would never go above 50% and I could barely do anything so I had to stop blocking and just try and run around (again like a headless chicken) to try and avoid everything. Same goes for Tanks, even with all the Heavy + 1HS passives you barely have enough stamina to even block at any regular boss and/or trash.. runs out instantly and just never refills. Not exactly sure what is causing this, but put simply: this gameplay will not satisfy the players, as you spend most of your time in a dungeon barely being able to do anything.

Finally, the video, of some spiders (that used to hit hard) insta-wiping a group of 4 ESO "veterans". This is also only a selection of the tries we had while testing strategy after strategy before deciding this is 0 points of fun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_4I6IvbQCQ

PS: Please fix proper Templates (SKILLS LEVELED, trait research, crafting mats). There's a lot of interest in the guild of doing more activites on the PTS, but everyone who logs in with a template character pretty much turns around at the door because no one is going to spend hours leveling skills on a test server.

Also, even if people find minor bugs on the unmorphed skills, most aren't even going to bother reporting them as no one cares about skills before they are morphed? This is one of the things you need to test internally, sorry to break it to you.

PS 2: Inferno and Magelight still stacks.

Islyn

I lol'd. Ran EH yesterday - got 1st 2 bosses down before I had to log, but OMG! The trash and mini boss after dark root? WHAM. They hit hard. I have never ever died to that, since or before Vet scaling, and I am using my own gear! (I was healing) I cannot imagine how much more we would have died if I was using a gimplate.

pppontus

Islyn wrote: »

I lol'd. Ran EH yesterday - got 1st 2 bosses down before I had to log, but OMG! The trash and mini boss after dark root? WHAM. They hit hard. I have never ever died to that, since or before Vet scaling, and I am using my own gear! (I was healing) I cannot imagine how much more we would have died if I was using a gimplate.

Yeah.. it's pretty nasty! Of course Light Armor is super squishy now, but some of these things can smack a tank down fast as well..

omfgitsbatman

Honestly, It looks like you guys might have some hp issues. Looking at the video, I'm seeing you at 19k health and A lot more Magika than Health. The Highest HP I saw in the group was 23-24k I believe.
I'm a healer, and doing Exactly the same thing I was doing on the live server where I sit around 2800 Health with food buff, without pvp buffs, I was at about 25k health and about 22k Magika (I sit slightly above soft cap around 2450 on live)... I put all attribute points into health, and enchated my gear with all magika.
Every tank I've healed on live has had at least 400-500 more hp than me, so that's about 15% more health than me minimum. Using that number, I figure a tank should at least be sitting around 28750.
If your tank went down as quick as he did while blocking in a Circle Of Protection and heavy armor when you were getting hit for 3.3k Per hit without blocking in light armor out of circle, there is definitely something wrong. While you were in the circle and not blocking, they were hitting you for 1.8k each.
Tank should be taking much less than that per hit while blocking in a circle. There is no reason he should have died other than limited health pool.

I did run Vet Elden Hollow with a pug group that had people with similar hp issues They were sitting around 17-18k health. Dark root literally 1 shot them every single time even though they were spread out and at full health. The tank and I were the only ones that could stay standing when she did that pillar of light ability (I don't know what it's called) that randomly selects people in the group and hits harder if you're close together.

Doing the same things that I do on live, I could run into most of the trash mobs by myself and spam sap essence while blocking and manage to kill them all (I get impatient waiting on people to zone in sometimes and want to clear trash XD)

pppontus

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

Honestly, It looks like you guys might have some hp issues. Looking at the video, I'm seeing you at 19k health and A lot more Magika than Health. The Highest HP I saw in the group was 23-24k I believe.
I'm a healer, and doing Exactly the same thing I was doing on the live server where I sit around 2800 Health with food buff, without pvp buffs, I was at about 25k health and about 22k Magika (I sit slightly above soft cap around 2450 on live)... I put all attribute points into health, and enchated my gear with all magika.
Every tank I've healed on live has had at least 400-500 more hp than me, so that's about 15% more health than me minimum. Using that number, I figure a tank should at least be sitting around 28750.
If your tank went down as quick as he did while blocking in a Circle Of Protection and heavy armor when you were getting hit for 3.3k Per hit without blocking in light armor out of circle, there is definitely something wrong. While you were in the circle and not blocking, they were hitting you for 1.8k each.
Tank should be taking much less than that per hit while blocking in a circle. There is no reason he should have died other than limited health pool.

I did run Vet Elden Hollow with a pug group that had people with similar hp issues They were sitting around 17-18k health. Dark root literally 1 shot them every single time even though they were spread out and at full health. The tank and I were the only ones that could stay standing when she did that pillar of light ability (I don't know what it's called) that randomly selects people in the group and hits harder if you're close together.

Doing the same things that I do on live, I could run into most of the trash mobs by myself and spam sap essence while blocking and manage to kill them all (I get impatient waiting on people to zone in sometimes and want to clear trash XD)

I do get your point, and you are probably right that we have too little HP as I noticed it was hard to survive the Blood Spawns stomp. We only have templates so no way of knowing what the attributes correspond to or what we need, and this will need to be tweaked on our part for sure.

This does however not change the point regarding adds and stamina drain, as with all the same attributes we have a fairly easy time on all bosses who do not have adds (Malubeth, Bloodspawn) but the ones who had adds like the Lich and Praxin, they have too much health and (some) hit insanely hard.

When they hit me in the circle I was constantly blocking (while casting) and took 1,8K per hit, looks like there are about 16 spiders hitting 1,8K through block is 28,8K incoming damage (blocked) and 57,6K when not blocking. Stamina drains in about ~0,5 sec when getting hit by a few of them so..

To your point about the tank, I believe that she could take it fairly well in full heavy + circle + healing for 1-2 seconds then stamina is drained and she will also take full damage = instantly dead. If she distributed more points to health she would just die quicker due to being completely unable to mitigate damage.

If anyone else would like to test this in VR Spindle I would definitely appreciate it, as I'm sure ZOS would too, but I honestly don't think it's possible in it's current state unless you time ultimates (we tried this first, but if you fail once you do not have your ultimate again and cannot recharge it with less than dying 100 times or so) like Suppression Field and Nova + Veil.

I would run more dungeons to test this, but given the current templates I am not sure if I can be bothered to do so.

Fruity_Ninja

That was ridiculous...

I imagine there is going to be a lot of instances like this throughout the world. They did just rebalance the whole game, there's going to be plenty of content either too hard, or too easy. Just from the small amount I tried, I noticed standard vet zones are just way too easy now (VR1-10). Craglorn seems much harder to get through solo now.

Didn't try the VR dungeons, but that looks nastier than all of what I tried.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

What happen with blocking? I can't find nothing in patch notes.

pppontus

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »

What happen with blocking? I can't find nothing in patch notes.

Afaik it's not in the patch notes, however it is extremely noticeable that blocking costs more. The only change they've stated is that magical AOE will be blockable, but it still drains extremely fast when there's no magic AOE.

With all the number changes and botched templates I don't really care for testing exact numbers atm, but I recommend everyone to run a VR dungeon and you will notice that you're always out of stamina.

Gyudan

After seeing this video I wonder if anything was really tested internally.
Get your numbers right @ZOS!

DDuke

There are champion system points to reduce block etc costs

If they had made blocking cost same as live, you'd be a demigod with all points in that Champion system passive, and this'd be horrible in PvP especially.

Oughash

DDuke wrote: »

There are champion system points to reduce block etc costs

If they had made blocking cost same as live, you'd be a demigod with all points in that Champion system passive, and this'd be horrible in PvP especially.

I don't think so, mainly because soft caps have been lifted and impen changed. Regardless, they need to give the templates enough cps to test and find out.

And add the Damn skill morphs in!

pppontus

DDuke wrote: »

There are champion system points to reduce block etc costs

If they had made blocking cost same as live, you'd be a demigod with all points in that Champion system passive, and this'd be horrible in PvP especially.

Sure, there are. Even maxed out it will be ~10% though. So instead of hovering around 10-35% stamina in long trash fights like on live, it will take 1,1 seconds to run out instead of 1 second?

If I didn't say so already, I get that this change is made for PvP however it is going to break PvE.

Maybe it's time for Zenimax to actually balance things differently between PvE & PvP as it is obvious the way they're doing it now does not work. The other option is to make it so that it's not necessary to block everything in PvE, but in many trash fights it is mandatory in order to even have a chance.

Oughash

pppontus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

There are champion system points to reduce block etc costs

If they had made blocking cost same as live, you'd be a demigod with all points in that Champion system passive, and this'd be horrible in PvP especially.

Sure, there are. Even maxed out it will be ~10% though. So instead of hovering around 10-35% stamina in long trash fights like on live, it will take 1,1 seconds to run out instead of 1 second?

If I didn't say so already, I get that this change is made for PvP however it is going to break PvE.

Maybe it's time for Zenimax to actually balance things differently between PvE & PvP as it is obvious the way they're doing it now does not work. The other option is to make it so that it's not necessary to block everything in PvE, but in many trash fights it is mandatory in order to even have a chance.

I don't think this was a pvp change. Block needed to change, sure. But there are too many hard CCs available to pvp players not to block. Pvp would be *** and frustrating without block. Additionally, unlocked softcaps and impen changes will enable huge burst dmg.

pppontus

Ishammael wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

There are champion system points to reduce block etc costs

If they had made blocking cost same as live, you'd be a demigod with all points in that Champion system passive, and this'd be horrible in PvP especially.

Sure, there are. Even maxed out it will be ~10% though. So instead of hovering around 10-35% stamina in long trash fights like on live, it will take 1,1 seconds to run out instead of 1 second?

If I didn't say so already, I get that this change is made for PvP however it is going to break PvE.

Maybe it's time for Zenimax to actually balance things differently between PvE & PvP as it is obvious the way they're doing it now does not work. The other option is to make it so that it's not necessary to block everything in PvE, but in many trash fights it is mandatory in order to even have a chance.

I don't think this was a pvp change. Block needed to change, sure. But there are too many hard CCs available to pvp players not to block. Pvp would be *** and frustrating without block. Additionally, unlocked softcaps and impen changes will enable huge burst dmg.

Maybe so, but I actually found it a lot more engaging when testing some PvP yesterday. CC had more use for one, and you had to make a conscious choice to block/dodge certain attacks and not waste it on others. Granted I was in like 3-4 proper fights so I don't know how it will turn out in the long run.

Nijjion

The problem with block is that an attack that does 1 damage costs the same amount of stamina as an attack that does 20k damage.

Block is needed in the game especially for PvP due to so many CCs and damage being quite high... imagine the TTK if there wasn't block in ESO. It would be like a Counter strike awp game with snipe just 1 bullet/arrow kills everywhere haha. I laugh but that's not really how MMOs should play.

If they do stop block casting with all the QQ for it, they should half all damage (at the minimum).

DDuke

Nijjion wrote: »

The problem with block is that an attack that does 1 damage costs the same amount of stamina as an attack that does 20k damage.

Block is needed in the game especially for PvP due to so many CCs and damage being quite high... imagine the TTK if there wasn't block in ESO. It would be like a Counter strike awp game with snipe just 1 bullet/arrow kills everywhere haha. I laugh but that's not really how MMOs should play.

If they do stop block casting with all the QQ for it, they should half all damage (at the minimum).

If they reduced the dmg even more, that'd just make dmg shield/heal spam even more required.

I'd rather see them increase the health you get in Cyrodiil, and do something to reduce the dmg shield/heal spam, instead of encouraging it.

McDoogs

Nijjion wrote: »

The problem with block is that an attack that does 1 damage costs the same amount of stamina as an attack that does 20k damage.

Block is needed in the game especially for PvP due to so many CCs and damage being quite high... imagine the TTK if there wasn't block in ESO. It would be like a Counter strike awp game with snipe just 1 bullet/arrow kills everywhere haha. I laugh but that's not really how MMOs should play.

If they do stop block casting with all the QQ for it, they should half all damage (at the minimum).

I think the real problem is that block is not reactive, but proactive, and certain builds can do massive damage and CC while holding down the block button. Right now PvP is so heavily skewed towards one hand shield + dmg shields that any other playstyle (besides maybe sniping from stealth) is gimped in a straight up fight. Playing any sort of melee burst build is suicide in almost every situation and that sucks imo

I'd like to see the stam drain per hit while blocking go down a lot, but a fairly heavy stam drain from holding block instituted, like what sprinting has, so a player has to time their blocks. They won't do it because of PvE balance, but for PvP that would loosen up the play a lot I think. Less charge, hold block, spam ult and aoes and CC and dmg shields until all dead or running like we have now.

Or just make it so you have to drop block to cast anything offensive.

pppontus

For me they can go either way, either remove blocking as a requirement to survive heavy AOE situations in PvE by toning down the damage, or enable us to permablock as on live. I don't really care, I just want a way to actually play PvE.

If they can solve the issue in PvP too, good, but as a very casual PvP player I can't offer much in the form of constructive feedback on that part.

Also I would appreciate if we can stick to the issue outlined here as the main point of discussion, as there are many threads dedicated to block-casting in PvP already that would be a better place to voice PvP concerns!

DDuke

pppontus wrote: »

For me they can go either way, either remove blocking as a requirement to survive heavy AOE situations in PvE by toning down the damage, or enable us to permablock as on live. I don't really care, I just want a way to actually play PvE.

If they can solve the issue in PvP too, good, but as a very casual PvP player I can't offer much in the form of constructive feedback on that part.

Also I would appreciate if we can stick to the issue outlined here as the main point of discussion, as there are many threads dedicated to block-casting in PvP already that would be a better place to voice PvP concerns!

Perhaps they want us to use abilities like Agony/Rune Prison etc to CC mobs in bigger packs & reduce the stamina drain that way?

Personally (being a big fan of vanilla WoW), I think that'd be awesome

All depends on whether mobs are immune to them (and whether they can break those longer CCs).

pppontus

DDuke wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

For me they can go either way, either remove blocking as a requirement to survive heavy AOE situations in PvE by toning down the damage, or enable us to permablock as on live. I don't really care, I just want a way to actually play PvE.

If they can solve the issue in PvP too, good, but as a very casual PvP player I can't offer much in the form of constructive feedback on that part.

Also I would appreciate if we can stick to the issue outlined here as the main point of discussion, as there are many threads dedicated to block-casting in PvP already that would be a better place to voice PvP concerns!

Perhaps they want us to use abilities like Agony/Rune Prison etc to CC mobs in bigger packs & reduce the stamina drain that way?

Personally (being a big fan of vanilla WoW), I think that'd be awesome

All depends on whether mobs are immune to them (and whether they can break those longer CCs).

Possibly, I guess it could be done, but those long CCs (usually?) break on damage which means you can't really AOE. It works, for sure, but single targeting out of a >12-pack mobs with 170k health will simply mean that every pack of trash takes 4x longer to kill than any boss.. it could be intended, but imo doesn't make for very fun gameplay.

Would be nice to have a ZOS rep say something about it though, as it is a dramatic change of the gameplay!

Alcast

Why no veil of blades/nova/ other dmg reduction stuff on the ground? It looks harder but still can be done i guess?

pppontus

Alcast wrote: »

Why no veil of blades/nova/ other dmg reduction stuff on the ground? It looks harder but still can be done i guess?

Because you can't charge this out of combat anymore. We did a nova first time (before I started recording) as I had my ult but you only have one chance. NB and Sorc did not have ultimates charged.

Alcast

Oh you right lol
Couldnt test yet because seems ZOS doesnt want EU players to test.

Gargragrond

McDoogs wrote: »

I think the real problem is that block is not reactive, but proactive, and certain builds can do massive damage and CC while holding down the block button. Right now PvP is so heavily skewed towards one hand shield + dmg shields that any other playstyle (besides maybe sniping from stealth) is gimped in a straight up fight. Playing any sort of melee burst build is suicide in almost every situation and that sucks imo

The timing mechanism of attacks prevents reactive blocking. If you are not already blocking when you see a big attack coming in, you are too late (in pvp at least). I'm not sure how this could be fixed in presence of latency etc, while keeping combat somewhat fast paced.
Anyway, permablocking seems to be gone now (blocking drains your stamina in seconds even in full heavy, and stuff like stamina regen glyphs have been nerfed), so the only remaining option seems to be shield stacking for everyone.

DeathDealer19

I feel your pain guys. I did vet Wayrest on the pts first day. Doing so with people who clear Sanctum and Vet DSA daily. We all had our chars copied over. We thought, oh vet wayrest would be cake...(super easy vet dungeon) The trash mobs have so much health which isn't even the issue for trash packs. The stamina cost for each block is just insane. Me being a healer I have everything into health and magicka. my stam is sitting at like 9k I think. If I block 2 MAYBE 3 attacks, my stamina is gone. And our poor tank. Inner beast now costs like 4500 stamina if im not mistaken and the trash pulls eat a tanks whole stamina bar in literally 3-4 seconds. The lich boss in Wayrest.... OMG... fight took us as long as it takes us to kill the serpent on live server. The adds are so ridiculous, by the time you kill them if youre lucky enough to, they are respawning by that point. each little frost wave they did, nearly 1 shot everyone. I know everyone is trying to find an ideal pool of health magicka and stamina but the dmg output and stamina drain from every enemy in the game is too high.

We tried AA as a guild and the lightning atronach boss literally hits everyone for 22-24k health at times. My stats on the live server as a healer are usually 2850 HP, 2500 magicka, 1100 stamina. On PTS im around 21k HP, 25k magicka, 9k Stamina.. granted im still trying to find a balance but the damage coming in from everything is just insane. I have every attribute point into health and im still too low and stamina I cant even describe how fast your stamina goes down doing anything.

I think overall, every enemy in the game needs like a 35-50% dmg reduction and stamina cost of blocking needs to be severely reduced. I don't care about pvp either. Everyone ruined pvp by making it mandatory to run a sword and shield. PVP is kind of a lost cause the way people play it now. Either run 1h+S or sit in the shadows sniping with a bow.

Im still going to be doing some more testing to find acceptable resource pools for pve aspects of the game. trials, vr dungeons, etc so lemme know if anyone wants to run things PTS side to test. @Deathdealer19 With the current state of stamina issues, its proving difficult though

pppontus

DeathDealer19 wrote: »

I feel your pain guys. I did vet Wayrest on the pts first day. Doing so with people who clear Sanctum and Vet DSA daily. We all had our chars copied over. We thought, oh vet wayrest would be cake...(super easy vet dungeon) The trash mobs have so much health which isn't even the issue for trash packs. The stamina cost for each block is just insane. Me being a healer I have everything into health and magicka. my stam is sitting at like 9k I think. If I block 2 MAYBE 3 attacks, my stamina is gone. And our poor tank. Inner beast now costs like 4500 stamina if im not mistaken and the trash pulls eat a tanks whole stamina bar in literally 3-4 seconds. The lich boss in Wayrest.... OMG... fight took us as long as it takes us to kill the serpent on live server. The adds are so ridiculous, by the time you kill them if youre lucky enough to, they are respawning by that point. each little frost wave they did, nearly 1 shot everyone. I know everyone is trying to find an ideal pool of health magicka and stamina but the dmg output and stamina drain from every enemy in the game is too high.

We tried AA as a guild and the lightning atronach boss literally hits everyone for 22-24k health at times. My stats on the live server as a healer are usually 2850 HP, 2500 magicka, 1100 stamina. On PTS im around 21k HP, 25k magicka, 9k Stamina.. granted im still trying to find a balance but the damage coming in from everything is just insane. I have every attribute point into health and im still too low and stamina I cant even describe how fast your stamina goes down doing anything.

I think overall, every enemy in the game needs like a 35-50% dmg reduction and stamina cost of blocking needs to be severely reduced. I don't care about pvp either. Everyone ruined pvp by making it mandatory to run a sword and shield. PVP is kind of a lost cause the way people play it now. Either run 1h+S or sit in the shadows sniping with a bow.

Im still going to be doing some more testing to find acceptable resource pools for pve aspects of the game. trials, vr dungeons, etc so lemme know if anyone wants to run things PTS side to test. @Deathdealer19 With the current state of stamina issues, its proving difficult though

Thanks, that sounds like us lol (except we have to use these damn templates, which sure isn't making it easier). We had more deaths in a run of VR Wayrest Sewers than we usually have throughout the entire Sanctum Ophidia, with the only thing saving us on the Lich was our healer spending as much time rezzing as healing

It's mostly things with adds all the way, like Malubeth seems perfectly fine (although the Stamina drain is still an issue for the Tank), but the fight overall takes about as long as on Live or a little longer, which I attribute to us not having the skills and gear.

The thing I don't get is, if they make it this costly to block doesn't that entice people even further to use 1H/S. At this rate we'll need 1H/S to DPS in PVE.

DeathDealer19

Yeah I think the stamina issue is what is getting most people. Theres just too much loss for blocking. Being a healer, I need to block/cast throughout fights since im usually right behind the tank in hate generated. Everything not on the tank is usually on me. And right now tanks don't have the ability to hold even half of a normal trash pack. On top of this, things are hitting like TANKS. spiders, ghosts, spells, especially frost breaths and fire waves are simply nuking everyone. We used Bogdan hard mode as a guage. His jump stomp that clears the fire from the field, hits for 18k. through block its about 16k if I remember correctly. We tried the atronach boss in AA.... he hit people for 22-24k at times. I cant even imagine what the Mantikora in SO is hitting for. Again im a healer so I have ALL attribute points into health and all glyphs into magicka. 9k stamina is gone in a heartbeat. tanks even cant hold stamina with taunts costing nearly 5k and each hit to their shield taking their stamina pool to 0 in 2 seconds flat.

So far I have loved everything about 1.6 but this is a severe balance issue that needs to be addressed. A lot of the fights in ESO require block casting to mitigate damage and stay alive. As it is right now, block casting for more than 2 seconds isn't possible. And enemy damage is just too high right now as well. even running 25k health, its still not enough. Is everyone in the game supposed to put all attribute points AND glyphs into health? that will SEVERELY destroy all forms of dps and healing.

Feidam

Are tanks trying to pull and hold all mobs? If so this is the issue if they returning to the plan they had in beta. Which was tanks held high priority targets and the tank / dps deployed CC to allow the dps to make coordinated strikes on the other trash.

The tank pull and hold everything was not in the design plan. Would be interested to see if people tried playing the old way what would happen.

eventide03b14a_ESO

pppontus wrote: »

Alright, after doing a little testing despite the awful templates that we were provided with I have some feedback..

First off, the trash in Vet dungeons have become absolutely ridiculous, in some cases like the video below (spiders) they just hit like absolute trucks and take 1-2 seconds to kill even a tank in full heavy receiving constant healing.. in other cases they simply have too much health, like in VR Wayrest Severs some of the trash have 170k HP (while lone bosses have ~500k) making each trash pack a more dangerous and even if they don't hit hard, each pack takes longer to kill than most bosses who don't have adds. Same thing also applies to bosses with adds such as the Lich in WS, if you go for killing all the adds that just takes so long that the next wave spawns and then the next.. etc. At some point we just had to kill 2-3 adds per round and then continue beating the boss while just running around like headless chickens. It worked, but it's just annoying and does not seem intended.

Secondly, the amount of stamina that's now drained by defensive actions like block/dodge.. is this intended? I can see this as possibly being intended for PVP, in PVP it felt "ok".. not exactly good but I can see the point of it.. however PVE is not going to be playable like this in the long run. Basically we had a lot of deaths in trash packs simply because you have to block a large number of attacks (esp. in light armor as they oneshot you now) which drains your stamina insanely quickly and then you get oneshot anyway. Also when I ran as a stamina DPS, it was even more sucky because half the dungeon my stamina would never go above 50% and I could barely do anything so I had to stop blocking and just try and run around (again like a headless chicken) to try and avoid everything. Same goes for Tanks, even with all the Heavy + 1HS passives you barely have enough stamina to even block at any regular boss and/or trash.. runs out instantly and just never refills. Not exactly sure what is causing this, but put simply: this gameplay will not satisfy the players, as you spend most of your time in a dungeon barely being able to do anything.

Finally, the video, of some spiders (that used to hit hard) insta-wiping a group of 4 ESO "veterans". This is also only a selection of the tries we had while testing strategy after strategy before deciding this is 0 points of fun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_4I6IvbQCQ

PS: Please fix proper Templates (SKILLS LEVELED, trait research, crafting mats). There's a lot of interest in the guild of doing more activites on the PTS, but everyone who logs in with a template character pretty much turns around at the door because no one is going to spend hours leveling skills on a test server.

Also, even if people find minor bugs on the unmorphed skills, most aren't even going to bother reporting them as no one cares about skills before they are morphed? This is one of the things you need to test internally, sorry to break it to you.

PS 2: Inferno and Magelight still stacks.

I found the death recap "tips" to be hilarious. I'm sure selecting a different mundus stone would have made all the difference LMFAO.

DeathDealer19

I don't think any tanks in ESO try to hold everything. Its usually 2-3 "key enemies" and dps/heals handles the rest. But right now its not possible. Tanks run out of stamina just holding 2 or 3 trash mobs. and healers and dps..... my god we run out of stamina if we have just one beating on us up close or from range. Its not possible to CC everything. Not to mention the sheer damage that is being put out by every enemy in the game. Trash mobs literally 1-2 shot everyone in the group if the healer isn't spamming Breath Of Life the entire time.

Merrak

Feidam wrote: »

Are tanks trying to pull and hold all mobs? If so this is the issue if they returning to the plan they had in beta. Which was tanks held high priority targets and the tank / dps deployed CC to allow the dps to make coordinated strikes on the other trash.

The tank pull and hold everything was not in the design plan. Would be interested to see if people tried playing the old way what would happen.

I've never strayed from this thought process, however that doesn't make the impact that you think. The bigger issue is the amount of health these baddies have in comparison to live server.

As I mentioned in the Reddit thread, a boss pull such as Maw the Infernal is perfect only because it has no adds. If there were adds to take care of in this fight, DPS would simply run out of time. and everyone would be dead. However, a boss like Imiril is near impossible without two high powered AoE DPS players.

You also have to consider our less than casual Console players that will be coming in, and the fact that they will not be completing Vet Dungeons anytime soon.