The Stamina Skill Swap Is Not Gonna Cut It

snipeopsub17_ESO

Tried this on PTS and still find stamina builds under par. The class skills were fine the way they were. The problem is that block, sprint, roll dodge and stealth are tied in with the stamina bar. The fix is a 3rd bar which scales off of stamina/stamina regen (adrenaline bar) and gives a reason to wear medium armor. The adrenaline bar would solely be for blocking, roll dodge, sprinting and sneaking. This would allow stamina builds to compete with magicka builds. Magicka builds would excel at spells and magicka regen but would be limited in the adrenaline skills in comparison to medium armor/stam builds. This would also address block casting to a certain extent.

Cody

I am open-minded, id be willing to give this a try

colinburke85

It's an Elder Scrolls game. Correct me if i am wrong, but i don't believe there were dodge/roll Bars. Everything was always tied in to stamina. Quite certain they will not want to change how the resource of the series because of the issue. Which by the way, i believe stamina builds are still lacking in ways in terms of resource management. I believe DKs still don't have a good way to do a stamina build.

Only thing i can think is to reduce the cost of abilities to make up for it.

OtarTheMad

I am not having much trouble with my stam build. Maybe because it's a template NB Khajiit but I am doing just fine with stam. regen and two of my clas skills being stamina abilities.

danovic

I'm doing just fine with Dk with stamina build wearing heavy armor. No way the game is going to let you stack all points in health any more you going to have to divide them with stamina. Lots of champion points in stamina reductions and boost though.

snipeopsub17_ESO

I'm talking about competing in the pvp arena, where dodge, sneak, blocking etc. are used frequently and if you use stamina to dps you are at a severe disadvantage.

Bouvin

Honestly, Heavy Armor should be at a disadvantage when it comes to Roll/Dodge.

If they want to fix it they can just add/increase passives to Medium armor to make it more viable for stamina builds.

Jaxsun

snipeopsub17_ESO wrote: »

Tried this on PTS and still find stamina builds under par. The class skills were fine the way they were. The problem is that block, sprint, roll dodge and stealth are tied in with the stamina bar. The fix is a 3rd bar which scales off of stamina/stamina regen (adrenaline bar) and gives a reason to wear medium armor. The adrenaline bar would solely be for blocking, roll dodge, sprinting and sneaking. This would allow stamina builds to compete with magicka builds. Magicka builds would excel at spells and magicka regen but would be limited in the adrenaline skills in comparison to medium armor/stam builds. This would also address block casting to a certain extent.

A guildie of mine suggested that rolling/blocking/break free etc. should just use either magicka or stamina based on the pool that is the largest remaining at the time you need to use the mechanic. So if you are a stamina build you would more than likely have your magicka pool drained by a roll dodge instead of stamina because you may be out of stamina from attacking and instead of being boned by not being able to block it would then use your magicka pool for it instead provided you have more magicka remaining than stamina at that point in time.

trimsic_ESO

CC break could use magicka for instance. ZOS could give it a try at least.

The medium armor passive abilities, or / and the champion new buffs related to stamina cost of dodging / blocking could be boosted. Because, yes a stamina build is still not as viable as a magicka build, and this has lasted for too long

Melee DPS skills need a HUGE buff too. Having to get close to a target to deal damage with a melee weapon should be rewarding. It makes absolutely no sense that we can deal more damage at a safe range with a bow.

These are major flaws in the combat system that have still not been fixed since launch.

Satiar

I am still ruining people on STam builds, this thread is wrong.

Wargaard

Maybe if using a melee/bow use stam to block/dodge etc. If using staff it uses magicka?

Nacario

If you are invested into stamina gearwise (medium armor) then at least the resource costs are reduced compared to LA. I can do more dodge rolls for instance on my medium char, sneaking costs less and is better.

Alcast

Spellcrafting, switch your Stamina block for a "Magical Shield block" kinda type. Problem solved. So you can choose what you want to use for block.

Desdemonte

danovic wrote: »

I'm doing just fine with Dk with stamina build wearing heavy armor. No way the game is going to let you stack all points in health any more you going to have to divide them with stamina. Lots of champion points in stamina reductions and boost though.

DK and Heavy Armour. 'Nuff said.

Desdemonte

Alcast wrote: »

Spellcrafting, switch your Stamina block for a "Magical Shield block" kinda type. Problem solved. So you can choose what you want to use for block.

And Spellcrafting is where in the game?

AlnilamE

snipeopsub17_ESO wrote: »

Tried this on PTS and still find stamina builds under par. The class skills were fine the way they were. The problem is that block, sprint, roll dodge and stealth are tied in with the stamina bar. The fix is a 3rd bar which scales off of stamina/stamina regen (adrenaline bar) and gives a reason to wear medium armor. The adrenaline bar would solely be for blocking, roll dodge, sprinting and sneaking. This would allow stamina builds to compete with magicka builds. Magicka builds would excel at spells and magicka regen but would be limited in the adrenaline skills in comparison to medium armor/stam builds. This would also address block casting to a certain extent.

I see these requests and I ask "WHY?"

Having one pool gives you one place to pour in your resources (enchants and set bonuses) and mitigation (cost reduction passives and enchants), so you are able to have a bigger pool that will give you the flexibililty to either attack more or mitigate more depending on the situation.

If you have two pools for that, then you have to choose where to put your resources and you'll end up in situations where you are out of stamina for attacks and are in no need of dodging/blocking, or vice-versa.

And would that pool also apply to heals?

Because right now:

damage mitigation (block/dodge/break free) = stamina
health recovery = magicka

Valnas

gain magical dodge (roll dodge now functions as a 5m teleport forward and breaks immobilize, costs magicka [125% of sta cost])

Pyatra

colinburke85 wrote: »

It's an Elder Scrolls game. Correct me if i am wrong, but i don't believe there were dodge/roll Bars. Everything was always tied in to stamina. Quite certain they will not want to change how the resource of the series because of the issue. Which by the way, i believe stamina builds are still lacking in ways in terms of resource management. I believe DKs still don't have a good way to do a stamina build.

Only thing i can think is to reduce the cost of abilities to make up for it.

This thankfully can be handled by tweaking non-class skills. Like drinks or have the Stamina equivalent of Warlock. I think the stamina morphs are a huge leap. Just need a couple of changes to other types of resource management sources.

Naivefanboi

snipeopsub17_ESO wrote: »

Tried this on PTS and still find stamina builds under par. The class skills were fine the way they were. The problem is that block, sprint, roll dodge and stealth are tied in with the stamina bar. The fix is a 3rd bar which scales off of stamina/stamina regen (adrenaline bar) and gives a reason to wear medium armor. The adrenaline bar would solely be for blocking, roll dodge, sprinting and sneaking. This would allow stamina builds to compete with magicka builds. Magicka builds would excel at spells and magicka regen but would be limited in the adrenaline skills in comparison to medium armor/stam builds. This would also address block casting to a certain extent.

at this point they gotta stop reworking the game. wish they had that idea at launch. or used their beta time better

Varicite

Issue is and has always been that the stamina resource pulls quintuple duty (utility, dodge, CC break, block, damage) as opposed to magicka's double duty (utility, damage).

This is obviously compounded by the fact that even though stamina is used for more than TWICE as many things in-game as Magicka, it STILL suffers from having about HALF the amount of ways to restore it as compared to Magicka.

Magicka: Used for 2 things, 5-6 ways to restore it.

Stamina: Used for 5 things, 2-3 ways to restore it.

This makes absolutely zero sense. ZOSense, if you will.

Alcast

Desdemonte wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Spellcrafting, switch your Stamina block for a "Magical Shield block" kinda type. Problem solved. So you can choose what you want to use for block.

And Spellcrafting is where in the game?

Couldnt find it yet, but If i find it i am gonna tell you

Mumyo

I play pure stamina and i blow *** up...just wanted to let u know.

And btw playing a stamina build does not mean u use no magicka at all.

Armitas

This really is the only way to get it set right. It's possible to lower the cost of dodge roll, and lower the cost of stamina abilities so that a stamina user can dps and dodge roll just as well as a magicka user. This makes the stamina user perfectly balanced as they double dip their resource. But what happens when they don't need to double dip??? Then you have dodge rolls that are too cheap, or dps that is too cheap.

You can only get it right for x but not y. With a third bar you can match it to all X's.

This algorithm will even let you set the adrenaline bar based on your max resource pool so that your highest resource will represent your base adrenaline.
( (S+M/2) * ( (S-M)/(S+M) ) ) + ((S+M)/2)

joseph.c.altmanpub19_ESO

I agree with this post 100%. I was so happy when they talked about adding stamina morphs and was excited to test them out. While testing in PTS yesterday I was super discuraged when I realized having stamana morphs is not as good as I hopped it would be. I say this because I run out of stamina so much faster and then die because I have no stamina to block/roll/dodge etc.. Im trying to re-work my build but I just don't see this as an improvment.

Something needs to be done about block/roll/dodge. This can no longer use stamina. IT... JUST...CAN'T!

I love the adrenaline idea and maybe the solution is to have your adrenaline based off your armor type simmilar to how armor and spell resestance is now. So wearing heavy armor you will have the most adrenaline, Med second and light the least. Just my thoughts

Kilandros

Class abilities should just scale off Stamina or Magicka, whichever is highest. That should be the marquis benefit of class abilities.

Pirhana7_ESO

snipeopsub17_ESO wrote: »

Tried this on PTS and still find stamina builds under par. The class skills were fine the way they were. The problem is that block, sprint, roll dodge and stealth are tied in with the stamina bar. The fix is a 3rd bar which scales off of stamina/stamina regen (adrenaline bar) and gives a reason to wear medium armor. The adrenaline bar would solely be for blocking, roll dodge, sprinting and sneaking. This would allow stamina builds to compete with magicka builds. Magicka builds would excel at spells and magicka regen but would be limited in the adrenaline skills in comparison to medium armor/stam builds. This would also address block casting to a certain extent.

You might need to try changing your armor and stats.... or realize everything was changed in general and offense is just less effective for everyone. I ran a stamina build NB and did much better than anything i did on the live server. I never came close to running out of stamina with 25,000 stamin and 1100 regian.

You also have to remember the further you go in the Champion system the stronger you will get with everything. In 2 or 3 months your character will gain ALOT.

Varicite

Kilandros wrote: »

Class abilities should just scale off Stamina or Magicka, whichever is highest. That should be the marquis benefit of class abilities.

Pretty much exactly what I've been saying ever since they made a similar change to the damage scaling for Ultimates.

TheBucket

Im a magic build and i enjoy the changes to stamina.

Kilandros

Varicite wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Class abilities should just scale off Stamina or Magicka, whichever is highest. That should be the marquis benefit of class abilities.

Pretty much exactly what I've been saying ever since they made a similar change to the damage scaling for Ultimates.

it would seriously open up so many builds.

Shuichi

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

You might need to try changing your armor and stats.... or realize everything was changed in general and offense is just less effective for everyone. I ran a stamina build NB and did much better than anything i did on the live server. I never came close to running out of stamina with 25,000 stamin and 1100 regian.

You also have to remember the further you go in the Champion system the stronger you will get with everything. In 2 or 3 months your character will gain ALOT.

Pirhana do you mind sharing your build? I've been running dw/dw today. 1: Blood Craze, Surprise Attack, Ambush, Quick Cloak, Mass Hys Ult: Death Stroke 2: Dark Cloak, Blur, Evasion, Vigor, Mark Target Ult: Soul Tether.

My second bar is used for buffing and DoT removal, I keep up quick cloak for speed and surprise attack to keep up Shadow Barrier but I still am facerolled by Temps + DKs alike. With Sparks I could mitigate far more of their damage, can't really seem to figure out what's wrong, or what I'm missing to ensure I live longer. I'm considering running 2H on my second bar for Rally, but that's about all I can think of to change my build.

Varicite

Do Blur, Evasion, and Quick Cloak actually stack? Don't they all give the same Major Evasion buff?