medium armor - nerf

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO

so is a 7/7 set of medium armor supposed to only give 4,6% weapon crit now compared to 21% on live? if so, why? and where is the compensation?
coupled with the halved crit chance on sets this makes stacking crit chance really hard now.

F7sus4

Yeah, and I remember the ladies telling that they'll be buffing, instead of nerfing. Because duck logic.

Oh, have they forgotten about Khajiit racials?

OtarTheMad

They most likely reduced it a bit because of the champion system and the passive that gives you more weapon crit if you invest points into it. Just focus on leveling that star if you're unhappy.

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO

well, that's not a bit though. the passive doesn't even compensate. light armor gets to keep their spell crit too and they also have a spell crit passive in the champion system.

Grim13

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO wrote: »

well, that's not a bit though. the passive doesn't even compensate. light armor gets to keep their spell crit too and they also have a spell crit passive in the champion system.

yep, I went form 64% critical chance to 45%. What a load of ***.

DeLindsay

ALL Crit got heavily reduced on PTS for the 1.6 changes. In the Champion System there is a passive that gives you 12% Crit which will bring us all back in line (very close to it) of what we have on Live now. Essentially the Champion System is all of us kind of starting over again in Progression.

The Apprentice: 30 pt Passive = 12% Spell Crit

• Also has a pointable increased Spell Crit ceiling.

The Ritual: 30 pt Passive = 12% Physical Crit

• Also has a pointable increased Physical Crit ceiling

the one caveat to what I said about Crit being nerfed for 1.6 is on PTS Aether isn't showing up correctly. Right now it shows 18% Crit for 2pc and 18% Crit for 3pc, which is lols. Also Soulshine shows up wierd. If you look at just a Ring it states 1% Crit for VR10, but the Neck shows 3% Crit. It's all kind of wonky on PTS right now.

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO

i get your point and that's also what i was thinking. but still, simply taking away more than 75% of a passive without getting anything in return is a very weird decision, especially for an armor class that was perfectly fine. and if their point was to reduce crit/spell crit in general then i'm wondering why prodigy wasn't replaced with another passive. also, even when you acquire the passive, it'll still give less crit chance than prior, which makes the whole champion system kinda pointless.

Bouvin

DeLindsay wrote: »

ALL Crit got heavily reduced on PTS for the 1.6 changes. In the Champion System there is a passive that gives you 12% Crit which will bring us all back in line (very close to it) of what we have on Live now. Essentially the Champion System is all of us kind of starting over again in Progression.

The Apprentice: 30 pt Passive = 12% Spell Crit

• Also has a pointable increased Spell Crit ceiling.

The Ritual: 30 pt Passive = 12% Physical Crit

• Also has a pointable increased Physical Crit ceiling

the one caveat to what I said about Crit being nerfed for 1.6 is on PTS Aether isn't showing up correctly. Right now it shows 18% Crit for 2pc and 18% Crit for 3pc, which is lols. Also Soulshine shows up wierd. If you look at just a Ring it states 1% Crit for VR10, but the Neck shows 3% Crit. It's all kind of wonky on PTS right now.

So basically they knocked everyone down, and we can get back in line by investing Champion Points.

Wow... nerf everyone so they are forced to grind CP to get back where they were.

Sounds like one more step forward in adding a "convenience" item to the Crown Store that increase CP gain.

This game is starting too look like a cash shop fueled F2P game more and more.

OtarTheMad

Idk... I don't see a problem but hey, everyone has an opinion. I think it's more balanced now. Do you have to spend time getting back to where you technically are on the live server? Yeah, but this is almost a different game and also I am not sure anyone would want it the way it is now on live AND with the passives in Champion System... NBs and DKs would be running around with 150% crit or something like that and be able to one shot people no problem. This way... it's balanced... fights are longer but you can still have a high crit.

kevlarto_ESO

I guess we are all a bit weaker and we can restore our former glory by spending champion points, I really hoped they were not going to do this but it appears they did /sigh
So we just get new points to spend to buy back what we used to have.

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO

well i feel they could atleast add a second little bonus to dexterity now, like an increase in light attack damage or whatever.

CasNation

What bothers me most about this change is the fact that I now have to rely on champion points for my build instead of gear. I am currently running both stam and magicka builds on my sorc, and am easily able to swap between them by changing my armor.

Now, I have to focus on whether I want to be physical based or magicka based with my champion point distribution.

This new system was supposed to bring us progression and choice, but I feel more pigeon-holed than ever with it

Nightreaver

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO wrote: »

so is a 7/7 set of medium armor supposed to only give 4,6% weapon crit now compared to 21% on live? if so, why? and where is the compensation?
coupled with the halved crit chance on sets this makes stacking crit chance really hard now.

The compensation
On Live
1) armor adds zero spell resistance
2) Medium armor provides 75% of the physical mitigation of Heavy
3) Light Armor provides 40% of the physical mitigation of Heavy

On PTS
1) armor now adds spell resistance
2) Medium armor provides 75% of both the physical and spell resistance of Heavy
3) Light armor provides 25% of both the physical and spell resistance of Heavy.

Offense on medium armor was lowered to increase the defense.

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO

Nightreaver wrote: »

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO wrote: »

so is a 7/7 set of medium armor supposed to only give 4,6% weapon crit now compared to 21% on live? if so, why? and where is the compensation?
coupled with the halved crit chance on sets this makes stacking crit chance really hard now.

The compensation
On Live
1) armor adds zero spell resistance
2) Medium armor provides 75% of the physical mitigation of Heavy
3) Light Armor provides 40% of the physical mitigation of Heavy

On PTS
1) armor now adds spell resistance
2) Medium armor provides 75% of both the physical and spell resistance of Heavy
3) Light armor provides 25% of both the physical and spell resistance of Heavy.

Offense on medium armor was lowered to increase the defense.

gear now also providing spell resistance is a change for all armor classes though not only for medium armor. the difference in spell resistance compared to live is also hardly significant, so not really a compensation in my opinion.

ub17_ESO

Nightreaver wrote: »

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO wrote: »

so is a 7/7 set of medium armor supposed to only give 4,6% weapon crit now compared to 21% on live? if so, why? and where is the compensation?
coupled with the halved crit chance on sets this makes stacking crit chance really hard now.

The compensation
On Live
1) armor adds zero spell resistance
2) Medium armor provides 75% of the physical mitigation of Heavy
3) Light Armor provides 40% of the physical mitigation of Heavy

On PTS
1) armor now adds spell resistance
2) Medium armor provides 75% of both the physical and spell resistance of Heavy
3) Light armor provides 25% of both the physical and spell resistance of Heavy.

Offense on medium armor was lowered to increase the defense.

By this logic stamina builds have no place as DPS...

kkampaseb17_ESO

Can we get an official response on this please? Is this intentional or a bug?

ub17_ESO

DeLindsay wrote: »

ALL Crit got heavily reduced on PTS for the 1.6 changes. In the Champion System there is a passive that gives you 12% Crit which will bring us all back in line (very close to it) of what we have on Live now. Essentially the Champion System is all of us kind of starting over again in Progression.

The Apprentice: 30 pt Passive = 12% Spell Crit

• Also has a pointable increased Spell Crit ceiling.

The Ritual: 30 pt Passive = 12% Physical Crit

• Also has a pointable increased Physical Crit ceiling

Pardon, but I whole heartedly disagree! I believe if this was the intent ZOS would have done it across the board and would have decreased the crit granted by the LA passive as well.

On live 7 piece of MA grants 21% crit and LA grants 10% crit.

On PTS 7 pieces of MA grants less than 700 crit and 5 pieces of LA grants 2k and some change.

We went from MA doubling LA to LA tripling MA in crit.

ZOS please answer is this an intended nerf to MA, or is this an oversight?

PikkonMG

Anything but heavy armor on PTS right now is a joke, there is 0 reason not to use heavy armor for every build you can think of. It gives crazy armor and spell resist with no negative impact.

Nightreaver

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO wrote: »

gear now also providing spell resistance is a change for all armor classes though not only for medium armor. the difference in spell resistance compared to live is also hardly significant, so not really a compensation in my opinion.

How can you say the difference between having nothing and what you have now is hardly significant?

ub17_ESO wrote: »

Pardon, but I whole heartedly disagree! I believe if this was the intent ZOS would have done it across the board and would have decreased the crit granted by the LA passive as well.
On live 7 piece of MA grants 21% crit and LA grants 10% crit.
On PTS 7 pieces of MA grants less than 700 crit and 5 pieces of LA grants 2k and some change.
We went from MA doubling LA to LA tripling MA in crit.
ZOS please answer is this an intended nerf to MA, or is this an oversight?

Think I will have to disagree with your disagreement.
True, you went from MA doubling LA to LA tripling MA in crit. You also went from MA being equal to LA in spell resistance to MA tripling LA in spell resistance AND from MA being less than double the armor of LA to MA being triple the armor of LA.
You seem to have no problem accepting the gain in both Armor and spell resistance over LA but feel you should remain equal to the DPS that LA has to offer.
Why would anyone wear LA if MA gives better armor, better spell resistance AND better DPS?
ZOS gave HA the best defense and then compensated by giving them the least offense.
They gave LA the best offense and then compensated by giving them the least defense.
They kept MA in between the two, both in terms of defense and offense.
Or did you really think MA should be best in both?

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO

Nightreaver wrote: »

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO wrote: »

gear now also providing spell resistance is a change for all armor classes though not only for medium armor. the difference in spell resistance compared to live is also hardly significant, so not really a compensation in my opinion.

How can you say the difference between having nothing and what you have now is hardly significant?

uhm, i do not have zero spell resistance on live, i just get zero from medium armor. spell resistance now scaling with armor instead of your level doesn't make a difference for medium armor wearers, a minor at best. so while medium armor defense hardly changes, it's offense took a huge hit.

Domander

I think everything that gives crit was nerfed, except for precise on weapons.

Sotha_Sil

I think everything related to stats was nerfed... because the purpose is to spend points in the champion system and make choices. How is it hard to understand seriously ? we see 10000 hundreds of posts like this.

Grim13

As a stamina focused dw/bow NB... I feel I've taken quite the nerf.

Stamina has taken quite the nerf given how quickly it drains any time cc is broken and/or I block.

My gear has been nerfed, as well.

And for what? So I can use CPs to build myself back up again!? I thought I'd be using the CP system to further specialize... not solely trying to regain any semblance of parity with my current live build.

It's going to take a lot of CPs beyond my initial allocation of 72 to get to where I am now, lol.

I am seriously disappointed with 1.6 so far.

Pirhana7_ESO

So much QQ here. It wasnt just medium armor that had values lowered, everything did in the game. If it had been left alone the champion system would have mad everything way over the top. Invest points in the champion system and you will quickly be were you were at before. Over time you will be far stronger than you were before.

Helluin

Dexterity with 7/7 MA gives 629 weapon critical rating, Prodigy with 5/7 LA gives 2099 spell critical rating.

Dexterity requires 3 skill points to be maxed, Prodigy only 2 skill points.

Weapon critical rating of Dexterity per piece of MA then should be increased or this passive should get an additional bonus (like a dodge bonus or sneak speed or something else).

On top of this, the tooltip of LA Prodigy (like MA Agility) is misleading - uncorrect, just 5/7 LA pieces are required and not a full 7/7 set.

sabresandiego_ESO

Medium armor is better than it ever was. The nerfs were necessary so that the 1.6 changes are balanced. Medium now has huge spell resistance, and is very, very good.

Bouvin

CasNation wrote: »

What bothers me most about this change is the fact that I now have to rely on champion points for my build instead of gear. I am currently running both stam and magicka builds on my sorc, and am easily able to swap between them by changing my armor.

Now, I have to focus on whether I want to be physical based or magicka based with my champion point distribution.

This new system was supposed to bring us progression and choice, but I feel more pigeon-holed than ever with it

I know. It seems like they nerfed us all so that we would have to grind Champion points to get back to where we were pre 1.6.

Instead of creating more content, they have just created more grinding, so that we must grind to be able to do the content we were already doing.

This has Korean Cash Shop Fueled Grind MMO written all over it.

Plus most people are reporting about 6-8 hours, while enlightened to earn 1 cp. My guess is they'll have additional boosters in the Cash Shop for CP.

Because you know, cash shop is all "convenience" which usually translates into you can either (A) Grind your brains out for hours on end or (B) Use the Cash Shop.

And this is why I hate F2P (which is exactly what it is becoming).

Nightreaver

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO wrote: »

uhm, i do not have zero spell resistance on live, i just get zero from medium armor. spell resistance now scaling with armor instead of your level doesn't make a difference for medium armor wearers, a minor at best. so while medium armor defense hardly changes, it's offense took a huge hit.

The thread is about armor which you already admit has no resistance in 1.5 so yes, your armor had zero resistance on Live. I mean if you are only talking about the difference in Crit in respect to armor then one would have to assume to consider the difference in armor rating and spell resistance only in respect to armor.

The question posed by the OP was what compensation was given for the reduction in Crit. The answer, whether you accept it or not, was an increase in Spell resistance. Now though you may not consider it much of a difference it does provide 3x the armor rating and 3x the spell resistance of Light armor.

So Medium has an armor rating much higher than Light and almost equal to Heavy while having a Crit rating higher than Heavy but lower than Light. You really didn't expect to have the Defense of Heavy armor while maintaining DPS greater than Light did you? What would be the point of any other armor is that was the case?

frould

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

So much QQ here. It wasnt just medium armor that had values lowered, everything did in the game. If it had been left alone the champion system would have mad everything way over the top. Invest points in the champion system and you will quickly be were you were at before. Over time you will be far stronger than you were before.

What about newbies that will coming? There new toon can't access to CP until endgame.

Helluin

My point is another one.

It's understandable that being MA now more resistant it loses something, but Dexterity is a passive skill of 3 skill points.

It should become, keeping the same bonus to critical chances, a skill requiring 2 skill points or it should remain a skill requiring 3 skill points with a little buff to critical chances or with an additional effect.

For balancement reasons, imho it's fine this critical rating but Dexterity should change and require 2 skill points.
Then Wind Walker could change and require 3 skill points instead of 2 (1,5%+1,5+2%=5% instead of 2%+2%=4% for stamina regen and 1%+1,5%+1,5%=4% instead of 1,5%+1,5%=3% as reduction to stamina skills).
This changement would help with the higher stamina depletion that there is with the stamina class skill morphs and the improved stamina costs of some actions.


About Carnage (Khajiit's racial skill), I think they skipped it because, following what done for everything, it could become 50% less.

DiktaHasi

While on one side i understand that with all the changes, the crit on MA had to be reduced.
BUT: that severely?
I mean, look on it that way: 7 pieces of MA with 3 point spend in the passive now give you less then 7% crit. I mean that does not feel very rewarding. And that phrase is what they use to say alot in the last days...
I would be fine with 1.5% per piece with 3points spend or 1% per piece, but then make it a 2point passive.
The way it is now, i think, it is just to low.