Drinks are still downright useless after the changes ZOS

Xsorus

Its around a 150ish i think regen extra? vs 3000+ on all 3 stats....

That in no way is comparable....

Black_Wolf88

its not just in 1.6. since the start food buffs has been the way to go since the beginning.especially since they dont stack.
I dont know anyone in game who have ever used drink buffs.

phreatophile

Yep. Completely predictable.

When they anounced that they were backing off of Beverages and Food stacking, nearly everyone in the thread pointed out that beverages will still be useless.

The regen value would need to be 3 - 4 times larger to be even worthy of consideration, even then, the larger pool is a better option.

Make 'em stack or settle for them being unused.

Chrlynsch

Well your actually looking at 4500 resources over a minute fight... vs a 3000 larger pool... drinks aren't as bad as you may think.

ZOS_GaryA

Hey there folks,

Thanks for the feedback on this! You're also welcome to provide feedback using the /feedback command within the game. If you folks have any ideas on how to make drinks a more enticing choice, let us know those too!

Edhelliell

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Hey there folks,

Thanks for the feedback on this! You're also welcome to provide feedback using the /feedback command within the game. If you folks have any ideas on how to make drinks a more enticing choice, let us know those too!

Actually, make food and drink stack. Good for the economy and crafters out there

Feidam

@ZOS_GaryA‌

The two types of food stacking would be the easiest fix imo. However, if the goal is to provide a choice then drinks will have to be significantly buffed in order to rival the benefits of food. Food gives you extra casts of skills, which in theory drink does too, but food also increases burst survivability via a larger health pool and the damage bonuses that come with having larger magicka/stamina pools.

Drink just pales in overall comparison.

Derra

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Hey there folks,

Thanks for the feedback on this! You're also welcome to provide feedback using the /feedback command within the game. If you folks have any ideas on how to make drinks a more enticing choice, let us know those too!

@ZOS_GaryA your people just have to use simple math. At the moment a vr14 set bonus will provide around 9xx magica or 120 magica reg. Just break it down into how many set bonuses you have to use to achieve the same effect with food or potions.

A drink will provide you with 150 of each stat regeneration. That is a little less than the power 4 setbonuses if you break it down that way.
A food will provide you with about 9000 raw stats. This equals about 8 set bonuses.

Does nobody at zos think about it that way? What is a comparible unit (you have to choose raw stat or reg when choosing a set) already in the game that a player can use in a limited quantity?

Edit: This leaves out the additional benefits food might offer (higher dmg resource pool etc.

Valen_Byte

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Hey there folks,

Thanks for the feedback on this! You're also welcome to provide feedback using the /feedback command within the game. If you folks have any ideas on how to make drinks a more enticing choice, let us know those too!

I don't remember where I heard this, but there was talk about making it so that we could use both food and drink at the same time. I thought that was coming with the provisioning changes. Guess not.

AlnilamE

Black_Wolf88 wrote: »

its not just in 1.6. since the start food buffs has been the way to go since the beginning.especially since they dont stack.
I dont know anyone in game who have ever used drink buffs.

I actually have a friend who exclusively uses drinks (he's soft-capped in stamina). He does not seem to die any more/less than I do.

Stinkur

Here is my idea for making them useful. Introduce gold quality for both, maybe an additional additive, magical pixie dust(or whatever) will turn a purple into a gold with slightly better upgrade to it. Now allow people to use both drink and food buffs but the combination of the two can only be up to gold quality. Or purple and gold are considered "majors" and blue/green considered minor. So you good do a major food and minor drink or a minor food buff and a major drink buff?

1-green
2-blue
3-purple
4-gold

You can only have up to gold in food+drink. Thus you could have 1 blue food buff 1 blue drink buff. Or 1 green drink and 1 purple food buff or 1 green food 1 purple drink. Might still take a little balancing making greens a little better or green vet 10 version of drinks and vet 10 blue food/drink......

just my ideas,

angelyn

Stinkur wrote: »

Here is my idea for making them useful. Introduce gold quality for both, maybe an additional additive, magical pixie dust(or whatever) will turn a purple into a gold with slightly better upgrade to it. Now allow people to use both drink and food buffs but the combination of the two can only be up to gold quality. Or purple and gold are considered "majors" and blue/green considered minor. So you good do a major food and minor drink or a minor food buff and a major drink buff?

1-green
2-blue
3-purple
4-gold

You can only have up to gold in food+drink. Thus you could have 1 blue food buff 1 blue drink buff. Or 1 green drink and 1 purple food buff or 1 green food 1 purple drink. Might still take a little balancing making greens a little better or green vet 10 version of drinks and vet 10 blue food/drink......

just my ideas,

This sounds very interesting

eventide03b14a_ESO

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Hey there folks,

Thanks for the feedback on this! You're also welcome to provide feedback using the /feedback command within the game. If you folks have any ideas on how to make drinks a more enticing choice, let us know those too!

I thought they were supposed to stack. Did you scrap that idea?

LunaRae

Here's the problem, food indirectly provides other bonus' that drinks simply don't.

Food increases magika = more spell power
Food increases stam = more weapon power
Food increase HP = bigger shields

Drink increasing regen rates gives nothing but regen rates. I think ZOS needs to somehow incorporate regen rates to giving some indirect bonus like food buffs do right now. Maybe reduce the amount of weap / spell power / shield bonus gained by 50% and offset that by giving regen rates the same effect. Now when you increase your regen rate by X value for all three stats you also get side-effects.

If you don't want to give regen rates a side effect (like food buffs do) then I think you need to SIGNIFICANTLY increase the regen rates so they offset the indirect bonus' you get from food buffs.

phreatophile

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Hey there folks,

Thanks for the feedback on this! You're also welcome to provide feedback using the /feedback command within the game. If you folks have any ideas on how to make drinks a more enticing choice, let us know those too!

Make them stack, or make beverages a lot more powerfull. Given how few fights last more than a few seconds, stacking is the better option.

DeLindsay

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Hey there folks,

Thanks for the feedback on this! You're also welcome to provide feedback using the /feedback command within the game. If you folks have any ideas on how to make drinks a more enticing choice, let us know those too!

We already did. We told ZoS repeatedly from launch to make them stack with Food and ZoS chose not to listen. Do YOU have a better idea than making the 2 stack? If so we're all ears.

BergisMacBride

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Hey there folks,

Thanks for the feedback on this! You're also welcome to provide feedback using the /feedback command within the game. If you folks have any ideas on how to make drinks a more enticing choice, let us know those too!

Please just let them stack like you promised awhile back. This is by far the simplest and easiest solution. It makes sense to be able to eat and drink at the same time. It will be good for the overall economy with folks making and buying both, not either/or as it is now and will help with item turnover. I have tons of unused drink materials sitting in my bank as it is now.

angelyn

LunaRae wrote: »

Here's the problem, food indirectly provides other bonus' that drinks simply don't.

Food increases magika = more spell power
Food increases stam = more weapon power
Food increase HP = bigger shields

Drink increasing regen rates gives nothing but regen rates. I think ZOS needs to somehow incorporate regen rates to giving some indirect bonus like food buffs do right now. Maybe reduce the amount of weap / spell power / shield bonus gained by 50% and offset that by giving regen rates the same effect. Now when you increase your regen rate by X value for all three stats you also get side-effects.

If you don't want to give regen rates a side effect (like food buffs do) then I think you need to SIGNIFICANTLY increase the regen rates so they offset the indirect bonus' you get from food buffs.

VERY GOOD POINT!

If it helped with armour and spell resistance this would make me use it since my light armour is made of tissue paper now. Perhaps they could make drinks have a regen plus other effect? Some of the potions have great effects but they only last a short time. Maybe some of those effects would be useful if there was an option to have say:

"Increase health regen by X and armour by X for 1 hour"

"Increase spell resistance by X and magicka regen by X for 1 hour"

"Increase stamina regen by X and speed by X for 1 hour"

etc etc

Or give us ability to stack food and drink.

olsborg

@ZOS_GaryA‌

I believe, atleast in my own opinion, that most folks use food buffs because it also buffs your dps, since higher magicka/stam means more dmg. More regen, yes over time it provides more resources, but no more dps. If they made drinks atleast slightly buff one max stat, and regens, it would maybe provide some utility over just using 3x stat, not sure even that would suffice.

Xsorus

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Hey there folks,

Thanks for the feedback on this! You're also welcome to provide feedback using the /feedback command within the game. If you folks have any ideas on how to make drinks a more enticing choice, let us know those too!

For it to be even remotely comparable regen wise it'd have to vastly outweigh the DPS gain and such,we're talking around 500 in each type regen lvl.

Or you could start adding stuff like Armor/Spell resist to those types of food
Maybe Reduced Cost as well... it just needs something extra to make up for the fact you're getting so much more from the Stat increases

jopeymonster

LunaRae wrote: »

Here's the problem, food indirectly provides other bonus' that drinks simply don't.

Food increases magika = more spell power
Food increases stam = more weapon power
Food increase HP = bigger shields

Drink increasing regen rates gives nothing but regen rates. I think ZOS needs to somehow incorporate regen rates to giving some indirect bonus like food buffs do right now. Maybe reduce the amount of weap / spell power / shield bonus gained by 50% and offset that by giving regen rates the same effect. Now when you increase your regen rate by X value for all three stats you also get side-effects.

If you don't want to give regen rates a side effect (like food buffs do) then I think you need to SIGNIFICANTLY increase the regen rates so they offset the indirect bonus' you get from food buffs.

This is the best reason why to use food over drinks. The regen rate is balanced in comparison to stats returned, but because hard attribute buffs increase other stats, they are better overall.

IDEA: Drinks should be a minor hard increase to attributes (25%-35% of equal level food), with the added properties of regen (current rates, given the situational benefits of drinks). This makes drinks relatively competitive to food, while still enabling the player to choose which would be best depending on situation, and gives players the "stacking" that was initial speculated.

Otherwise, a large buff to drinks (as has been mentioned) is the best result.

C0pp3rhead

DeLindsay wrote: »

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Hey there folks,

Thanks for the feedback on this! You're also welcome to provide feedback using the /feedback command within the game. If you folks have any ideas on how to make drinks a more enticing choice, let us know those too!

We already did. We told ZoS repeatedly from launch to make them stack with Food and ZoS chose not to listen. Do YOU have a better idea than making the 2 stack? If so we're all ears.

This. Especially now that softcaps are gone, it would make so much sense to have larger resource pools AND better regen. Isn't that why you got rid of softcaps?

pmn100b16_ESO

Its pointless to stack food and drink. Change drink regen rates to make up for the extra dps etc the stat increases provide with food, and we're good.

Sasky

Even then, consider that the ways to get a major stat are more limited than regen. No champion stars tie into increasing max h/m/s, whereas you have CP stars for +regen for each stat and cost reduction for m/s costs.

radiostar

Significantly boost the effect of using a drink by itself, then reduce its effect slightly when used with a food (don't touch the food!). This way drinks will be at least considered for consumption with a food item. Meaning, maybe we can sell a few drinks for those that want that extra little boost to regen in a meal. Those already using drinks alone will appreciate it too.

The way it is now, not many will pick a drink over a food item. But if you leave food alone and allow drinks to add slightly to their effect, then maybe more drinks will get used. I was kind of shocked when they didn't stack since I was used to that in FE. If you're chowing down a snack you always want something to drink with it even if just water, and you should at least get an extra pickup from it.

Elder_III

Stinkur wrote: »

Here is my idea for making them useful. Introduce gold quality for both, maybe an additional additive, magical pixie dust(or whatever) will turn a purple into a gold with slightly better upgrade to it. Now allow people to use both drink and food buffs but the combination of the two can only be up to gold quality. Or purple and gold are considered "majors" and blue/green considered minor. So you good do a major food and minor drink or a minor food buff and a major drink buff?

1-green
2-blue
3-purple
4-gold

You can only have up to gold in food+drink. Thus you could have 1 blue food buff 1 blue drink buff. Or 1 green drink and 1 purple food buff or 1 green food 1 purple drink. Might still take a little balancing making greens a little better or green vet 10 version of drinks and vet 10 blue food/drink......

just my ideas,

I like this allot. It fits in with the new system of having Major and Minor Buffs and Debuffs for everything now too. Very sensible imo.

xaraan

Stinkur wrote: »

Here is my idea for making them useful. Introduce gold quality for both, maybe an additional additive, magical pixie dust(or whatever) will turn a purple into a gold with slightly better upgrade to it. Now allow people to use both drink and food buffs but the combination of the two can only be up to gold quality. Or purple and gold are considered "majors" and blue/green considered minor. So you good do a major food and minor drink or a minor food buff and a major drink buff?

1-green
2-blue
3-purple
4-gold

You can only have up to gold in food+drink. Thus you could have 1 blue food buff 1 blue drink buff. Or 1 green drink and 1 purple food buff or 1 green food 1 purple drink. Might still take a little balancing making greens a little better or green vet 10 version of drinks and vet 10 blue food/drink......

just my ideas,

That's a pretty good idea. There should definitely be some way to stack them. I think as is, drinks will see about the same amount of use (or non-use) as before.

F7sus4

xaraan wrote: »

Or 1 green drink and 1 purple food buff or 1 green food 1 purple drink. Might still take a little balancing making greens a little better or green vet 10 version of drinks and vet 10 blue food/drink......

That's a pretty good idea. There should definitely be some way to stack them. I think as is, drinks will see about the same amount of use (or non-use) as before.

The formula makes consuming choices unnecessarily complicated.

You will not even notice an in-game difference between having and not having a green drink stacked together with purple food. Like whoever would even bother with green drinks' petty bonus at all. Or ever did.

edit: Please remember that blue food is often way more preferred than purple food. Most people buff their main stats with better number (Health+Stamina or Health+Magicka) instead of mediocre buff for all 3 stats of which one is unneeded dump stat anyway. So with this "grading" idea, blue+blue food/drink combination would give way more potent combinations than purple+green. Thus making even less reason for purple food to exist. Probably, not really as it should be.

Rosveen

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Hey there folks,

Thanks for the feedback on this! You're also welcome to provide feedback using the /feedback command within the game. If you folks have any ideas on how to make drinks a more enticing choice, let us know those too!

Could you explain why the devs think stacking is a bad idea and continuously try to find another way? If we knew your reasons, it would help us come up with a solution. Right now all we see is ZOS asking for more feedback while ignoring the mountain of "please let them stack" feedback we already sent. It's puzzling.

Ilawynde

Make em STACK!! could be some epic battles insuing!

tinythinker

angelyn wrote: »

LunaRae wrote: »

Here's the problem, food indirectly provides other bonus' that drinks simply don't.

Food increases magika = more spell power
Food increases stam = more weapon power
Food increase HP = bigger shields

Drink increasing regen rates gives nothing but regen rates. I think ZOS needs to somehow incorporate regen rates to giving some indirect bonus like food buffs do right now. Maybe reduce the amount of weap / spell power / shield bonus gained by 50% and offset that by giving regen rates the same effect. Now when you increase your regen rate by X value for all three stats you also get side-effects.

If you don't want to give regen rates a side effect (like food buffs do) then I think you need to SIGNIFICANTLY increase the regen rates so they offset the indirect bonus' you get from food buffs.

VERY GOOD POINT!

If it helped with armour and spell resistance this would make me use it since my light armour is made of tissue paper now. Perhaps they could make drinks have a regen plus other effect? Some of the potions have great effects but they only last a short time. Maybe some of those effects would be useful if there was an option to have say:

"Increase health regen by X and armour by X for 1 hour"

"Increase spell resistance by X and magicka regen by X for 1 hour"

"Increase stamina regen by X and speed by X for 1 hour"

etc etc

Or give us ability to stack food and drink.

They have a whole new system of major and minor buffs, drinks could take advantage of some of the minor buffs in addition to resource recovery rates. Consider a drink that also gave you one of the following:

(There are a couple buffs, like berserker, that are missing from this list but referred to at other places in the patch notes. Others are omitted because they affect a target and would work better as poisons than food.)


Minor Resolve: Small increase to physical resistance.

Minor Ward: Small increase to spell resist.

Minor Protection: Reduces damage taken by 8%

Minor Evasion: Increases dodge chance by 5%

Minor Brutality: Increases weapon damage by 5%

Minor Sorcery: Increases spell damage by 5%

Minor Force: Increases critical damage amounts by 15%

Minor Savagery: Increases weapon critical chance by 3%

Minor Prophecy: Increases spell critical chance by 3%

Minor Mending: Increases healing done by 8%

Minor Vitality: Increases healing taken by 8%

Minor Expedition: Increases movement speed by 10%

Minor Heroism: Increases Ultimate gain by 1