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1.6 PvP sorc testing/results, by Teargrants [Updated with video]

  • Satiar
    Satiar
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  • Ezareth
    Ezareth
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    I just want to say thanks for testing all of this and keeping civil manner about you Teargrants. I'm downloading the PTS now, hopefully I can do some testing with you some time over the coming weeks.
    Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
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  • Fruity_Ninja
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    Jahosefat wrote: »
    They also added a delay to encase (stealth nerf!). Now encase casts that purple haze on the ground, and ~1 second later people in the purple haze get snared. So you can't run around and snatch people with it like you used to be able to (it's very hard to hit running people with it now).


    Yeh I noticed that, the delay is terrible. I reported that as a bug on PTS...damn. Was hoping that was the case, rather than a delay that was there by design :/
  • Asgari
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    Jahosefat wrote: »
    They also added a delay to encase (stealth nerf!). Now encase casts that purple haze on the ground, and ~1 second later people in the purple haze get snared. So you can't run around and snatch people with it like you used to be able to (it's very hard to hit running people with it now).


    Yeh I noticed that, the delay is terrible. I reported that as a bug on PTS...damn. Was hoping that was the case, rather than a delay that was there by design :/

    It's like it got nerfed with how it is now. Can't really use it on the move or open field.
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  • Teargrants
    Teargrants
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    I just want to say thanks for testing all of this and keeping civil manner about you Teargrants. I'm downloading the PTS now, hopefully I can do some testing with you some time over the coming weeks.
    Love to. I've been jumping back n forth between live/pts, whisper me on either whenever I'm on if you wanna set something up.
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    IxSTALKERxI
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  • frosth.darkomenb16_ESO
    frosth.darkomenb16_ESO
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    Teargrants wrote: »
    Update:
    New vid, this time duoing w/ our NB around WRX's group, King Richard jumped in to help too.

    Entropy was so underused before by sorcs... I wonder how many will use it now?

    To be fair it always was used to trigger might of the guild. Just not many were aware of it. The healing was not bad either but secundary.
    Now it will be very interesting to use.
  • Asgari
    Asgari
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    Teargrants wrote: »
    Update:
    New vid, this time duoing w/ our NB around WRX's group, King Richard jumped in to help too.

    Entropy was so underused before by sorcs... I wonder how many will use it now?

    To be fair it always was used to trigger might of the guild. Just not many were aware of it. The healing was not bad either but secundary.
    Now it will be very interesting to use.

    Having been a sorc all my life i used it since day one. structured entropy op.
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  • frosth.darkomenb16_ESO
    frosth.darkomenb16_ESO
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    Teargrants wrote: »
    Update:
    New vid, this time duoing w/ our NB around WRX's group, King Richard jumped in to help too.

    Entropy was so underused before by sorcs... I wonder how many will use it now?

    To be fair it always was used to trigger might of the guild. Just not many were aware of it. The healing was not bad either but secundary.
    Now it will be very interesting to use.

    Having been a sorc all my life i used it since day one. structured entropy op.

    Same here. I stopped using it only when I got stubborn and wanted to go stamina only. :smiley:
  • Asgari
    Asgari
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    Teargrants wrote: »
    Update:
    New vid, this time duoing w/ our NB around WRX's group, King Richard jumped in to help too.

    Entropy was so underused before by sorcs... I wonder how many will use it now?

    To be fair it always was used to trigger might of the guild. Just not many were aware of it. The healing was not bad either but secundary.
    Now it will be very interesting to use.

    Having been a sorc all my life i used it since day one. structured entropy op.

    Same here. I stopped using it only when I got stubborn and wanted to go stamina only. :smiley:

    I stopped using it to master the other classes and understand their abilities. now im back to my sorc.
    Formerly @Persian_Princess .. Now @Asgari
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  • DezIsDead
    DezIsDead
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    Teargrants wrote: »
    Update:
    New vid, this time duoing w/ our NB around WRX's group, King Richard jumped in to help too.

    This video made me wanna cry, in my defense I was trying out heavy/medium armor. Still that went better than most of my 1v1's
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  • Poxheart
    Poxheart
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    Teargrants wrote: »
    Update:
    New vid, this time duoing w/ our NB around WRX's group, King Richard jumped in to help too.

    I see that they haven't fixed keep walls becoming stuck as your target. :/
    Unsubbed and no longer playing, but still checking the Alliance War forum for the lulz.

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  • Ezareth
    Ezareth
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    Have they fixed any bugs at all since I left?

    I've experienced the door bug, weapon (wont) swap bug, knocked down through block, knocked down through dodge roll, broken audio bug, broken animations bug, FPS bug(occasionally happens when ambushed) and a host of others. The game is running as poorly as it ever has and I haven't even stepped foot into lagblade yet.

    I have been Testing on PTS and they have totally jacked spell cost reduction. It is no longer mathematically sound any more. Some things are additive, other things are multiplicative and none of it adds up right.

    Taking your first Passive negative cost reduction talent *doesn't* reduce your spells by that amount. It is something less. I'm suspecting there is an unmitigated percentage of each spell that no matter how much your cost reduction is, you'll always pay.

    The Champion cost reduction points appear to affect your modified spell cost and so is multiplicative at the end and is pretty weak.
    Edited by Ezareth on January 31, 2015 10:43PM
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  • Teargrants
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    Update:
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  • Ezareth
    Ezareth
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    Why no mages wrath?
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  • Teargrants
    Teargrants
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    Why no mages wrath?
    No place to fit it on my bar w/ destro/resto setup. Using Crushy Shock/Degeneration to proc shards so Fury would only be used in execute phase. For 1v1s at any rate, if I get them that low, Crushy Shock spam will finish them off anyways.

    For group combat though, I can go back to resto/sword & shield and have Fury to steal all the KBs and gen ulti. Haven't decided yet, gonna have to test in larger group fights. The only reason I even consider destro Crushy Shock spam is because it counts as 3 projectiles for the Scales nerf, so I don't really worry about spamming it at DKs.
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  • Ezareth
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    I'm still finding it hard to justify the loss of either Resto(healing ward) or S&B for a Destro staff. Doing blocks with my shield while refreshing my shields and while bolt escaping away is such a life saver. I'd run out of stam far to quickly otherwise.

    Did you notice how jacked up all the reduction abilities, enchants and gear are? I'm afraid to do the testing any further on that stuff.

    Does anyone know if they ever fixed Nirnhorned, 1H sharpened or any spell penetration to be somewhat consistent yet?
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  • Teargrants
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    I'm still finding it hard to justify the loss of either Resto(healing ward) or S&B for a Destro staff. Doing blocks with my shield while refreshing my shields and while bolt escaping away is such a life saver. I'd run out of stam far to quickly otherwise.

    Did you notice how jacked up all the reduction abilities, enchants and gear are? I'm afraid to do the testing any further on that stuff.

    Does anyone know if they ever fixed Nirnhorned, 1H sharpened or any spell penetration to be somewhat consistent yet?
    Yeah, that's why I use resto/sword & shield on live. The problem is in 1.6 the stam drain from blocking is just so huge I'm not sure it'll make much difference. The other thing, is because of the stam loss, I can't keep uptime on Defensive Posture (which is how I get around Scales on live). W/ destro/resto I trade that for Purge + Crushy Shock (which eats through Scales in 1.6).

    Cost reduction glyphs are kinda weird, they seem to apply more reduction on some skills than others, but it does that on live too. I don't even try to figure out the math behind it, just test it and see if it feels like an improvement over other glyphs.

    As of 1.5 the spell pen portion nirnhorned has never worked, literally 0% spell pen. Don't have a nirnhorned wep on pts to test it.
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  • ToRelax
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    Why no mages wrath?

    Mage's Fury is more useful when you are creating bursts and proccing shards with a setup relying on class abilities to deal damage - if you use a destro staff and spam crushing shock, you either lose dps with Fury hile trying to bring them down or give them a chance to get up again when you already have them close under 20%.
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  • Ezareth
    Ezareth
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    Teargrants wrote: »
    I'm still finding it hard to justify the loss of either Resto(healing ward) or S&B for a Destro staff. Doing blocks with my shield while refreshing my shields and while bolt escaping away is such a life saver. I'd run out of stam far to quickly otherwise.

    Did you notice how jacked up all the reduction abilities, enchants and gear are? I'm afraid to do the testing any further on that stuff.

    Does anyone know if they ever fixed Nirnhorned, 1H sharpened or any spell penetration to be somewhat consistent yet?
    Yeah, that's why I use resto/sword & shield on live. The problem is in 1.6 the stam drain from blocking is just so huge I'm not sure it'll make much difference. The other thing, is because of the stam loss, I can't keep uptime on Defensive Posture (which is how I get around Scales on live). W/ destro/resto I trade that for Purge + Crushy Shock (which eats through Scales in 1.6).

    Cost reduction glyphs are kinda weird, they seem to apply more reduction on some skills than others, but it does that on live too. I don't even try to figure out the math behind it, just test it and see if it feels like an improvement over other glyphs.

    As of 1.5 the spell pen portion nirnhorned has never worked, literally 0% spell pen. Don't have a nirnhorned wep on pts to test it.

    On live your cost reduction percentages are added together and then multiplied against your base spell cost reduced by your jewelry reduction enchants.

    So if a spell costs 100 mana, and you have -20 to spells on enchants your adjusted base is 80. If you have 20% spell cost reduction total the cost of that spell is 64 not 60.

    I can't figure out the calculation on PTS. It appears every spell has a portion of unmitigatable cost added to each spell. You then get your normal spell cost reduction to the base cost.

    For instance I was testing with Crystal fragments proc with over 100% total spell reduction and 3 -200 spell cost enchants yet it still costs 505 Magicka.

    Nirnhorned does offer *some* penetration but it is absurdly bad, even lower than the pen you get with a 1 hand penetration weapon. I have a legendary nirnhorn staff I'll test with.

    Was just playing on PTS more and I'm getting constant health desyncs. I got disentegrated at 80% health and was just dumbfounded until I realized what was happening. Old bugs returning again...
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  • Teargrants
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    Ah thanks for the info.

    About health desyncs, I've suspected that but it's been hard to tell because of all the 20k+ hits from single skills (bugged destro heavy atk for example). Wouldn't be surprised if there is a desync issue, same thing happened when they changed bow animations months ago, and 1.6 is changing most animations in the game now.
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  • Lord_Hev
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    Teargrants wrote: »
    Why no mages wrath?
    The only reason I even consider destro Crushy Shock spam is because it counts as 3 projectiles for the Scales nerf, so I don't really worry about spamming it at DKs.


    I tested Crushing Shock on a DK. It only counts as one hit for the Sales calculation. Despite it technically being 3 projectiles.

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  • Itoq
    Itoq
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    Jahosefat wrote: »
    They also added a delay to encase (stealth nerf!).

    Anyone know if all roots are affected similarly?

  • shishkin_85eb17_ESO
    Hi sorc. fellows. What I've mentioned in 1.6 PTS that we sorcerers have to change the way of thinking at all.
    So as with the gear you could not rise to much critical chance we have to go the way of spell damage, thank's also to the new buff given by Entropy and totally new spell damage calculation based on weapon damage figures
    To take Matrial knowledge set + Twilight's Ambrace will be really cool stuff 4/4 - 180*3 = 540 Spell damage boost up.
    Gear variates could be even more effective Wise Mag, Twilight's, Arche Mage, Cyrodil's light (rings) my was quick and dirty done. So finally
    Passives in champions for the penetration+ weapons on penetration+ mundus on penetration ( it stuck each other to the light armor passive 70% penetration in total app.), as much as possible in to the Mana Attributes (balance health further with armor glifs)

    For single target bar we take duals (long swards with penetration traits -1590 Spell dmg (gold improved))

    Bar - Mages fury, Curse, Fragment, Entropy, Mega Light (protects also from stealth attacks now much better )))).
    Ulti - Soul strike or Overload due to spell damage will be a lot of dps also

    Jwelery cost reduction, Passive in champion - cost reduction and Light armor buff

    Result:
    23K Mana 19K Health, 2300 Spell damage (with major sorcery buff after entropy)

    Figures in the abilities are crazy
    Mages fury - 2500 dmg (6000 on blow)
    Curse - 5800 dmg
    Fragment - 6800 + 20% on proc- 8160
    Entropy - 2000 app.

    And still with such setup we have 37% critical rate, you can imagine what happen if curse or fragment or fury blow crits ))

    And thanks to penetration is almost everything goes in to the target.

    I've made on PVP one round death of melee players (in lucky cases) - Entropy, curse, fragment, fury, fury, curse blow, Fury blow, RIP - DPS 14K
    In PVE on the troll VR 8 DPS was up to 18K, 1,7 round done.

    Now I am on job so could not give the detailed figures and proofs but it looks like the real nuke sorc, build ever possible in TESO
    Will give more detailed description when EU characters will be copied to PTS.
    In case have questions or doubts will be glad to discuss

    Update 1
    Gear variate could be even more effective.
    Wise Mag (3) - 3 Armor - Crit + spell damage
    Twilight's (4) 2 Armor + 2 duals- Crit + spell dmaage + Max Health
    Arche Mage (3) 2 Armor + Neck - Regen + spell damage
    Cyrodil's light 2 rings - Spell damage
    In total 180 Spell damage *4 = +720
    720 +1590+20% = 2700 Spell damage
    My gear was quick and dirty done. So finally the potential for improvement is quite high in direction of spell damage + penetration.
    Also we should not forget that nobody take care about spell resistance as sorcerers were always far away from being really dangerous as well as all other caster builds.
    Will write down based on the same logic the destro staff AOE build description as damage scaling now also from Spell damage could be the same effective with tones of DPS
    Filling tells to me that Pulse + Liquid Lightning (twice more damage per tick than the wall of elements now + it has cool synergy which do not brake the spell) + Megalight + Critical surge + Lighting form will be a good variant still to rush in to the big groups in PVE. Ulti Atronach (nice synergy +8% to all damage ) or Meteor (+ has a dot spot). Even nerf. of surge and crit chance will not effect your healing as the damage increases dramatically and you will get less times but more relevant heal ticks.
    Edited by shishkin_85eb17_ESO on February 2, 2015 11:08AM
  • Ezareth
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    Anyone else notice the fact we have to spread our bonus damage across two different constellations(Elemental + Magic) while the melee classes get a single constellation for bonus damage (physical)?
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  • Satiar
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    Ehhh, melee classes who put everything into damage are going to hurt from it. The lack of damage shields means they need to put points into survivability as opposed to pure damage.

    That said, eventually people will prob max out more than 1 tree.
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  • Ezareth
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    Satiar wrote: »
    Ehhh, melee classes who put everything into damage are going to hurt from it. The lack of damage shields means they need to put points into survivability as opposed to pure damage.

    That said, eventually people will prob max out more than 1 tree.

    Well the blue Mage group is almost exclusively for adding damage. I don't think someone would put everything into one ability but that one pysical damage ability is in essence twice as powerful(or a bit less due to diminishing returns of additional points) as the equivalent trees needed by Sorcs. Either Magic should be lumped in with the Elemental ability or the benefit given by both ability should be increased somewhat compared to the physical damage ability.


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  • frosth.darkomenb16_ESO
    frosth.darkomenb16_ESO
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    Satiar wrote: »
    Ehhh, melee classes who put everything into damage are going to hurt from it. The lack of damage shields means they need to put points into survivability as opposed to pure damage.

    That said, eventually people will prob max out more than 1 tree.

    Well the blue Mage group is almost exclusively for adding damage. I don't think someone would put everything into one ability but that one pysical damage ability is in essence twice as powerful(or a bit less due to diminishing returns of additional points) as the equivalent trees needed by Sorcs. Either Magic should be lumped in with the Elemental ability or the benefit given by both ability should be increased somewhat compared to the physical damage ability.


    Would it be possible that due to how diminishing return works, the advantages per point are greater for magic than for physical damage?
    You have more locations to dump your points so in the end, you can have more CP that brings you undiminished boosts.

    Or do those boosts not combine additively?
  • Ezareth
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    In theory you could balance the elemental and magical abilities so that they awarded double the maximum bonus damage at 100 points that you get from the single physical ability and that would be balanced were that the case. From what I've seen however the Physical bonus uses the same algorithm as the elemental and magic ability and thus it would take twice and many skill points to get the same overall benefit for a Sorc for example.
    Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
    Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
    Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
    Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
    Ezareth PvP on Youtube
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