Templar 1.6 Discussion

ThatHappyCat

Merrak wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

All debuffs can be exploited by everyone. But remember that they don't stack, so if someone else is using a debuff with Minor Fracture you will only get that benefit once.

Are you certain that all of them can be? Because Reaper's Mark doesn't apply to everyone, only the caster since they have the debuff as well.

You're thinking of the old Reaper's Mark. Take a look at the new version.

Regarding Radiant Destruction:

While I do seem to be overpowering my opponents in duels with Radiant Oppression as my primary DPS skill, I also note that so far all of my opponents: are in light armour (much more fragile now), have low HP (I current have 27k HP while most light armour casters in PvP have considerably less), spam Crushing Shock (seems to me Crushing Shock is much weaker than in live), rarely interrupt me on purpose (mindless Crushing Shock spam ends when you put a bit of pressure on them), and blow their stamina in an instant (you can't hold block or dodge repeatedly with a stick and dress now).

In other words I think the main issue here is most players are still adapting to 1.6. I will note however that Radiant Destruction starts executing at 30% health instead of 20% like most other executes, and once your opponent is in execute range they pretty much drop dead in an instant. That might be a bit too much.

Merrak

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Merrak wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

All debuffs can be exploited by everyone. But remember that they don't stack, so if someone else is using a debuff with Minor Fracture you will only get that benefit once.

Are you certain that all of them can be? Because Reaper's Mark doesn't apply to everyone, only the caster since they have the debuff as well.

You're thinking of the old Reaper's Mark. Take a look at the new version.

Oh, right right. Sorry...stupid 1.6 changeover.

booksmcread

People are starting to adapt to Radiant Oppression in duels. It's new and people are not used to it or expecting it, so knowing the counters to it will take a while for people to learn. That being said, I do think I am doing a little too much damage to full health targets with it. I was able to cast it on a full health stamina NB and take him to half health with one full cast. I think its damage on targets at or lower than 30% is where it should be.

danno8

jdroebuckb16_ESO wrote: »

300-500 DPS on a sustained boss fight. (This is where I struggle the most and I am not sure what is good? My initial attacks have my dps in the 1000+ but then the longer it goes it just settles down to a 400-500 and stays around that)

Heavy armour ensures you will run out of resources and need to heavy attack to get some back. That is why your short fights are ok but your long ones expose the weakness.

ThatHappyCat

booksmcread wrote: »

People are starting to adapt to Radiant Oppression in duels. It's new and people are not used to it or expecting it, so knowing the counters to it will take a while for people to learn. That being said, I do think I am doing a little too much damage to full health targets with it. I was able to cast it on a full health stamina NB and take him to half health with one full cast. I think its damage on targets at or lower than 30% is where it should be.

Yes, the extra 40% damage at full magicka makes it rather strong as a DPS skill considering how overwhelming it is as an execute. There's also the issue that once the beam locks on there's no way to break it through line of sight (which makes it incredibly useful when fighting defenders on walls).

Feidam

booksmcread wrote: »

People are starting to adapt to Radiant Oppression in duels. It's new and people are not used to it or expecting it, so knowing the counters to it will take a while for people to learn. That being said, I do think I am doing a little too much damage to full health targets with it. I was able to cast it on a full health stamina NB and take him to half health with one full cast. I think its damage on targets at or lower than 30% is where it should be.

I wonder what is his/her health pool total. Against a character with no investment in health that would be a conceivable result.

Sasky

Feidam wrote: »

I wonder what is his/her health pool total. Against a character with no investment in health that would be a conceivable result.

And that's the main issue in PvP. With the nerf to the ratio you get for HP, everyone has significantly lower health and is easier to kill.

ThatHappyCat

I don't really see it as an issue. If you don't invest in health you should be easy to kill, and if you're also wearing light armour you should crumble when slapped.

Everyone's too used to taking no survivability hit in light armour and investing everything in DPS up to soft caps. Now we might actually have diversity.

Feidam

Sasky wrote: »

Feidam wrote: »

I wonder what is his/her health pool total. Against a character with no investment in health that would be a conceivable result.

And that's the main issue in PvP. With the nerf to the ratio you get for HP, everyone has significantly lower health and is easier to kill.

Some what yes. I've played around with stats and with food I sit about 25k health and 28k magicka. And it seems to do rather well. I think several folks are going glass cannon and entering pvp with like 16k health. While they can hit incredibly hard add any resistance and they crumble.

That said I do think damage scaling is a bit off.

Khivas_Carrick

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

I don't really see it as an issue. If you don't invest in health you should be easy to kill, and if you're also wearing light armour you should crumble when slapped.

Everyone's too used to taking no survivability hit in light armour and investing everything in DPS up to soft caps. Now we might actually have diversity.

^^^^This.

He hit the nail on the head here. People are way used to being nigh unstoppable in all armor types but now things have changed, especially for those wearing Light Armor. What would equate to you essentially having magic as your armor thanks to spells and the like, you are not screwed regardless of whatever you do all because you chose to ride into battle wearing a dress.

Sasky

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

I don't really see it as an issue. If you don't invest in health you should be easy to kill, and if you're also wearing light armour you should crumble when slapped.

Everyone's too used to taking no survivability hit in light armour and investing everything in DPS up to soft caps. Now we might actually have diversity.

Fair enough. Perhaps they intend to require people to stack more health/reduction (and certainly once people get into thousands of CP there will be more reduction). However, people coming from 1.5 don't realize how much of a glass cannon their build is because you get the armor/spell resist reduction, health reduction, block cost increase, and new numbers to hide all that.

So you get primarily glass cannon vs glass cannon in PvP (except for the few like @Feidam who have adjusted stats) and then skills seem really high damage and OP.

As far as diversity, it might force everyone to run around in mostly heavy armor.

ThatHappyCat

Sasky wrote: »

As far as diversity, it might force everyone to run around in mostly heavy armor.

I saw a guy in heavy armour with 50k HP. He was extremely difficult to kill, but he also did almost no damage. It's funny in duels, but in an actual battle he can pretty much be ignored.

Feidam

still trying to figure out what feels off to me. Shields are necessity now. Make sure you have one in pvp. The other thing I'm noticing is a lot of the skills people are used to playing with are not necessarily your best choice when putting together a weapon bar. Paying attention to the secondary effects is a must now.

ThatHappyCat

Feidam wrote: »

still trying to figure out what feels off to me. Shields are necessity now. Make sure you have one in pvp.

For a light armour DPS yeah. The aforementioned heavy armour guy with 50k HP didn't use a damage shield.

Feidam

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Feidam wrote: »

still trying to figure out what feels off to me. Shields are necessity now. Make sure you have one in pvp.

For a light armour DPS yeah. The aforementioned heavy armour guy with 50k HP didn't use a damage shield.

Probably because he has like no Magicka or stamina with that much health. Maybe he is a pacifist and just wanted to tickle everyone.

ThatHappyCat

Feidam wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Feidam wrote: »

still trying to figure out what feels off to me. Shields are necessity now. Make sure you have one in pvp.

For a light armour DPS yeah. The aforementioned heavy armour guy with 50k HP didn't use a damage shield.

Probably because he has like no Magicka or stamina with that much health. Maybe he is a pacifist and just wanted to tickle everyone.

Obviously he's an extreme example, but across the continuum there should be plenty of builds (i.e. medium armour) that don't need shields to survive.

kungmoo

ok, after much testing with the wonderful skill that is radiant destruction... I have found the major flaw with it and why it is considered OP by everyone... and honestly I have to agree with that because of one simple reason


its an execute that starts doing 300% damage when the target is below HALF (50%) health.... not the 20-30% range of other execute skills

Feidam

astal360b14_ESO wrote: »

ok, after much testing with the wonderful skill that is radiant destruction... I have found the major flaw with it and why it is considered OP by everyone... and honestly I have to agree with that because of one simple reason


its an execute that starts doing 300% damage when the target is below HALF (50%) health.... not the 20-30% range of other execute skills

Bug report it. It sounds like it is not scaling appropriately then. I'll test and see what I get when I get time later. If you read the tool tip it is up to 300% damage so it should scale like the other scaling executes.
Those that scale like this start at when a target hits 50 and only reach full power after they drop to 20%.

jdroebuckb16_ESO

Hey. Thanks for those who commented on my post. I'm predominantly in levelling mode to get to vr14 pre 1.6 and felt not worrying about dying would be useful. I also like the cosmetics and hate wearing skirts in mmorpg!

You are right though, in long battles it's the lack of resources which makes the dps drop. The thing is, in levelling it makes zero differences. I can solo VR14 delves in craglorn and anchors in any cadwells gold. I was just concerned for when I hit trials my build was too AOE Damage focussed,

I use 2H sword mostly but have all weapons maxed out so could swap. I start rally which is on my second bar just to maximise my light weave attacks and for the HOT.

If it's a single mob or a boss mob I would then use dark flare as opener, if it's a group of then I would dump flaming spear on them all...

I then critical rush in and weave a light attack immediately and take a step back ( as it rushes you past).

I then simply weave puncturing sweep with light attacks which generates massive ultimate which I typically just hit empowering sweep (but on groups of 1-3 they die so quick you don't get it off.

For boss mobs, as I'm heavy armour I'm never in danger of dying but I run out of magicka so weave in odd brawler or heavy attacks. This is what sees my dps drop massively in sustained fights.

I guess my original vision was an heavy armoured AOE damage build which by definition I am. By weaving odd brawler (for AOE DOT and shield), dropping a rune of protection, weaving puncturing sweep and using odd blazing shield I can kill as many mobs as I'm up against, I've rounded up about 20+ mobs in a craglorn delve and burn through them.

I was thinking this may be a good champ point grinding tactic but know in trials I'm gonna need a single target dps "go to" setup.

danno8

astal360b14_ESO wrote: »

ok, after much testing with the wonderful skill that is radiant destruction... I have found the major flaw with it and why it is considered OP by everyone... and honestly I have to agree with that because of one simple reason


its an execute that starts doing 300% damage when the target is below HALF (50%) health.... not the 20-30% range of other execute skills

I can confirm. It starts the 300% at 50% health.

Edit: I was testing on some trolls and it might be 200% from 50%-->30% then the full 300% after that.

Hard to tell because they die so fast.

kungmoo

danno816_ESO wrote: »

astal360b14_ESO wrote: »

ok, after much testing with the wonderful skill that is radiant destruction... I have found the major flaw with it and why it is considered OP by everyone... and honestly I have to agree with that because of one simple reason


its an execute that starts doing 300% damage when the target is below HALF (50%) health.... not the 20-30% range of other execute skills

I can confirm. It starts the 300% at 50% health.

Edit: I was testing on some trolls and it might be 200% from 50%-->30% then the full 300% after that.

Hard to tell because they die so fast.

that's been my problem... cant find anything really to test it on solo... though I saw someone mention one of the world bosses in Bangkorai that I plan to try it out on later

kungmoo

astal360b14_ESO wrote: »

ok, after much testing with the wonderful skill that is radiant destruction... I have found the major flaw with it and why it is considered OP by everyone... and honestly I have to agree with that because of one simple reason


its an execute that starts doing 300% damage when the target is below HALF (50%) health.... not the 20-30% range of other execute skills

ok I need to retract that earlier statement based on further testing (finally found a workable world boss with 180k health to toy with)

at 50% health the damage goes up 100%
at 40% it goes up 200%
at 30% it goes up 300%

so it may be working as intended, though it may need to be changed to just start doing more at 30% and lower health

Feidam

My tests also so it starts scaling with 100% damage increase at 50 maxing out at 300 around 25-30% health

Dredlord

timidobserver wrote: »

Dredlord wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

danovic wrote: »

Think Zos doesn't play enough Templars to realize the mending 30 percent increasing chance is for critical heals not offensive crits. They need to change it back!

I am pretty sure it was done because non-Templar healers have been complaining about being inferior for a long time.

Implying the inferiority had anything to do with mending

It was because breath of life is in every way superior to every resto staff heal in the game.

Mending is a large part of what makes Breath of Life superior.

not even close. no other heal in the game can spike for 900 base, non crit.

The 900 base only applies a significant heal to one person. The additional targets only get a meh heal. However, when Breath of Life crits everyone gets a large heal. Mending is major when doing competitive content like Sanctum Ophidia and Vet DSA.

incorrect, everyone does not get a large heal when it crits, each heal crits independently. many times I have crit healed someone on the main heal and got small non crit secondary heal resulting in my death.

I think you missed the point by trying to find something to prove wrong. That point being that the base heal of the primary target can be nice, but the secondary targets is not that great of a base heal. Which is why mending is part of what makes BOL powerful. You can count on all low health targets getting a crit heal when it is needed like the pull phase on the final boss of Vet Dsa. Now more RNG is involved.

try not to take it personally when you make a mistake and it gets pointed out, nobody cares who you are... only that what we are debating here is based on correct information.

Khivas_Carrick

So, anybody come up with a new rotation yet? Lol

Feidam

Magicka based vampires bane, entropy, puncturing strikes and radiant oppression is netting me about 10.5k dps. Still working on a pure ranged build for single target.

Khivas_Carrick

Nice.

I have two set ups for stamina melee, one supportish and the other pure damage.

The first is Blazing Spear, Rally, Reverse Slice, Power Of the Light, and Wrecking Blow.

The second is replacing blazing spear with Biting Jabs, -or- Wrecking Blow with Jabs. Needless to day I'm still working out the kinks, bit I think jabs might be a cornerstone ability for dps

Khivas_Carrick

Shameless bump because I refuse to let this go to the wayside and be forgotten. Important *** in here guys

Leon119

Any1 figured out a caster dps bar for endgame pve ?

Khivas_Carrick

Actually I think somebody has involving purifying light and vampires bane and crushing shock with radiant destruction.