Riding Skill instead of Mount Skill?

starkerealm

MSchroeder wrote: »

4. “Can I still upgrade my riding skill after Update 6?”

Of course! The procedure is very similar to the current system: Just go to a Stablemaster, and you can increase one of the three categories – speed, stamina, or carrying capacity – by one, once per day, for a small gold fee. The only difference is that now, rather than the Stablemaster feeding your mount, they’re training your character!

I've got this mental image of the Daggerfall's Stablemaster cramming raw oats into my character's mouth, while yelling at passers by.

Anyway, honest question, are we getting new caps for the rider skill?

So, right now, an imperial horse can't have more than 50 capacity. But, a player (with the cargo horse) could have +60. Is this being changed, to account for that, or is 50 still the cap, and people with +60 mounts are getting grandfathered in?

Kevinmon

Oh wow, this is a huge change from the past.

Nightreaver

@MSchroeder
Still confused. Can we get some clarification on your clarification?
1) Is there a cap on Player skill?
In your example you fed an Imperial Horse (speed 15%) 50 apples and a Light Horse (25% speed) 50 apples which increases the mount speed to 75% yet the player skill remains at 60.
If so then there is any advantage to increasing the mount speed beyond 60%? Seems like you would be able to max out Speed and Stamina with two Imperial Mounts.
Even without the Light horse wouldn't the character still have a 60 skill in riding speed just from the Imperial horse? ( 15 + 50)

2)

As a second example, take a similar character. He’s got an Imperial Horse that's been fed 50 Apples, and a Light Horse that has only had 10 Apples. When the changeover happens, that character will have 50 points in their riding skill’s Speed category

An Imperial horse has 15% speed, feeding it 50 apples would increase the speed to 65%. Shouldn't the character have at least 60 skill?

Sacadon

@MSchroeder,

Please help with a clarification to your post (copied below). If we've a character that has a mount with saddlebags showing now because we fed it capacity 20 or more times, can we expect that

1) After update 6 all of the characters mounts will show bags? (assuming the 20 or more transfer of skill)

2) Are there any other circumstances that ZOS forcing us to deal with displaying the fugly-god-awful-A bags on all mounts post update 6?

3) In the event the answer is yes to 1) and/or 2), if we sell the horses with fugly-bags showing prior to update 6, can I avoid this over inflated concern of mine?

Context: Early on, many players learned that 20 or more capacity feedings resulted in saddlebags displaying on their horses. Since most of those same players did NOT want their horse look like a pack mule, we just bought another horse and started over again just to ensure they didn't have them. This of course took time and effort, but worth it to avoid the pack mule situation. Anyway, I think you get the idea.

---

MSchroeder wrote: »

To answer a few more questions:

2. “What happens to the mount’s stat-based appearance?”

When your riding skill gets high enough in each of the three categories – speed, stamina, and carrying capacity – then ALL mounts that character rides henceforth will reflect this, with the appropriate accoutrements. If you’ve increased your riding skill’s carrying capacity enough, then every mount you ride will have saddlebags. This does mean that a fully maximized rider will have barding, armor, and saddlebags, on all of their mounts.

At the moment, our team is working on bugs and improvements with this system. For instance, we have a known issue that a mount with all three stats “past the mark” will only display two of the accoutrements, rather than all three. We’re also considering various ways to allow a player to control which accoutrements their mount has, but we have nothing finalized at this time. Neither the options nor the known issue will be “in” in time for PTS, but we’ll be sure to say when they’re implemented.

Slurg

The current horses available to us right now (with +10 increase to base stats pre-feeding) will still be available after the transition, right?

Will players be able to feed a cheap horse up to the same stats as a +10 horse after the change or will they still need to purchase the more expensive horse to get the extra +10 bump to those stats?

It's clear this new system is in place to get people into the cash shop buying new horse and guar and other mount skins since they will no longer need to worry about starting from scratch with the feedings on each mount. I think that this new system is a much fairer way to accomplish that than to let cash shop people buy fully maxed mounts, which would give them an unfair advantage in the game.

I always liked the looks of the black horse but didn't want a pure stamina mount. With this news, I've purchased one and will start feeding it for stamina. Got plenty of gold to spend and nothing else to spend it on right now anyway.

c0rp

This is a good change. Now we can use whatever mount whenever we want and not have to worry about it being gimped in a certain category, since the player now carries the skills instead of the mount.

Tapio75

Feidam wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Why?

Now everybody will end up with max speed, max stamina and max carrying capacity... Literally no variety left in the system.

Variety will come with your choice of mount to use. So everyone will not, in theory, look the same but will functionally be the same. This is solely a QoL change.

When i plainly read what they state about the system, horses will be just visuals, horses no longer have separate stats. Horses will not add to riding skill but the riding skill is only thing that dictates Stamina/speed/capacity.. So everyone will eventually have the same stats and there will be no more variety left exept superficial horse skins.

Old system was great, new system is boring.

Lykurgis

Wait...
@MSchroeder
Is this account wide or per character? For example, I have 3 V14s, all of which have a Imperial horse that was fed exclusively 1 of each type of food, so my speed horse is on 1 character, my pack mule another character ect...each at 50. Does this mean all my characters mount progress is now merged?

Nightreaver

Lykurgis wrote: »

Wait...
@MSchroeder
Is this account wide or per character? For example, I have 3 V14s, all of which have a Imperial horse that was fed exclusively 1 of each type of food, so my speed horse is on 1 character, my pack mule another character ect...each at 50. Does this mean all my characters mount progress is now merged?

Based on what @MSchroeder posted "When the changeover happens, each character’s riding skill is determined independently, based only on the stats of that particular character’s mounts." I would say the skill applies only to the character that possesses it.

But in rereading it I have another question for @MSchroeder‌
Are all the base stats changing?
Based on your post I am guessing that the new base stats will be:
Common Horse: Speed 0, Stamina 0, Carrying Capacity 0
Imperial Horse: Speed 0, Stamina 0, Carrying Capacity 0
Draft Horse: Speed 0, Stamina 0, Carrying Capacity 10
Gaited Horse: Speed 0, Stamina 10, Carrying Capacity 0
Light Horse: Speed 10, Stamina 0, Carrying Capacity 0

Lykurgis

well, damn.

there's the gold sink going into 1.6...

Feidam

Tapio75 wrote: »

Feidam wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Why?

Now everybody will end up with max speed, max stamina and max carrying capacity... Literally no variety left in the system.

Variety will come with your choice of mount to use. So everyone will not, in theory, look the same but will functionally be the same. This is solely a QoL change.

When i plainly read what they state about the system, horses will be just visuals, horses no longer have separate stats. Horses will not add to riding skill but the riding skill is only thing that dictates Stamina/speed/capacity.. So everyone will eventually have the same stats and there will be no more variety left exept superficial horse skins.

Old system was great, new system is boring.

Keep in mind our opinions are subjective. I vastly prefer this new system to the old. Doesn't mean the old one is bad just not my preference. So we'll have to agree to disagree.

Stonesthrow

Elridge wrote: »

So they said on the twitch video that now we will have a riding skill, instead of the current mount system.

Source:http://www.twitch.tv/zenimaxonlinestudios/v/3711373 24min 44 seconds

Does this mean we can't have multiple mounts with different abilities? I have one for PvE (faster with a good amount of bag space) PvP (pure speed) and RP (armored)

I'm a bit confused as to what they mean by it will now be a riding skill, and worried that we wont be able to customize each mount we own for different situation? or that we will have god mounts with max health/speed/bag space once we fully level riding

Not sure if you got your answer… so much text here.

Riding is now Character Based.

Whatever you want to train your character's riding skill to be on a daily basis will affect that character's riding skill only.

Can be maxed in Speed AND Stamina AND Capacity at the same time.

If your character already has a maxed capacity horse and is working on a second horse with max speed, your "riding skill" will consist of both of them now and you can continue to level one daily as well as picking up stamina as an option.

Your "riding skill" will be for any mount on that character going forward.

Was also mentioned that the "caps" of the the three riding skills are now going to be higher as well.

Nightreaver

Stonesthrow wrote: »

Was also mentioned that the "caps" of the the three riding skills are now going to be higher as well.

I missed that. Where was this said?

Iago

what worries me about this is I have a horse built to be a pack horse and carry stuff and I have another horse have been focusing on nothing but speed with will the new skill line make it so I can still carry as much as my pack horse and still be as fast as my speedy horse?

Feidam

Iago wrote: »

what worries me about this is I have a horse built to be a pack horse and carry stuff and I have another horse have been focusing on nothing but speed with will the new skill line make it so I can still carry as much as my pack horse and still be as fast as my speedy horse?

Yes. Upon launch it will take those horse's highest stats and make them your riding skill.

Iago

Feidam wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

what worries me about this is I have a horse built to be a pack horse and carry stuff and I have another horse have been focusing on nothing but speed with will the new skill line make it so I can still carry as much as my pack horse and still be as fast as my speedy horse?

Yes. Upon launch it will take those horse's highest stats and make them your riding skill.

so I'm going to be up to carry a 410 extra items and run just as fast as a white horse? fossil have a skill line that improves that?

Valencer

Feidam wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

Feidam wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Why?

Now everybody will end up with max speed, max stamina and max carrying capacity... Literally no variety left in the system.

Variety will come with your choice of mount to use. So everyone will not, in theory, look the same but will functionally be the same. This is solely a QoL change.

When i plainly read what they state about the system, horses will be just visuals, horses no longer have separate stats. Horses will not add to riding skill but the riding skill is only thing that dictates Stamina/speed/capacity.. So everyone will eventually have the same stats and there will be no more variety left exept superficial horse skins.

Old system was great, new system is boring.

Keep in mind our opinions are subjective. I vastly prefer this new system to the old. Doesn't mean the old one is bad just not my preference. So we'll have to agree to disagree.

Sure, opinions are subjective by definition.

The result of this change is a fact though:
Everybody ends up with max stats. Less variety. Simplification of the current system (flawed as the current system may be).

Djem

This is a great change.

Epona222

There are still a couple of points I am not clear about:

1. Apparently the appearance of mounts we currently own will carry over into the new system and be account-wide. However, I am unclear whether all the current options for appearance will still be purchasable with in-game gold after the change. Question here is, if I do not own (for example) a black horse on any character before the change, will I still be able to buy that skin after the change for 42.7k in game gold, or will it be removed as an in-game purchase and only be available in the cash shop for IRL $/£ or Crowns or whatever?

2. Please confirm the max that our characters can be trained for in each skill - because the horses currently have different stats, do I need to own (for example) a draft horse now and have it fed 50 times for carrying to ever be able to reach the carrying max after the changeover, or will I be able to train myself 60 times after the changeover so that I don't miss out on those 10 inventory slots from the base draft horse stat?

The official responses on the thread deal with what will happen to peoples' existing horses come the changeover - I want to know whether those of us who do not yet have every horse appearance and fed up to max (horse base of 10 + 50 feedings for that base stat, for expensive horses at least) will miss out in any way.


EDIT: Also is it my imagination, or is there no longer any hover-over text for what the different horse foods provide? Only just noticed that.

Turelus

@MSchroeder I have a question to try and fully understand what's happening here.

In order to reach the full level 60 in rider skills for 1.6 you must have reached the current max possible in each area.

Speed
Light Horse 25% + 50 ranks = 75%, becomes Rider Level 60.
Other Horse 15% + 50 ranks = 65%, becomes Rider Level 50.

Stamina
Gaited Horse 20 + 50 = 70, becomes Rider Level 60.
Other Horse 10 + 50 = 60, becomes Rider Level 50.

Carrying
Draft Horse 10 + 50 = 60, becomes Rider Level 60.
Other Horse 0 + 50 = 50, become Rider Level 50.

The above is the simple and correct way these conversions will happen?

SLy_Kyti

Epona222 wrote: »

There are still a couple of points I am not clear about:

1. Apparently the appearance of mounts we currently own will carry over into the new system and be account-wide. However, I am unclear whether all the current options for appearance will still be purchasable with in-game gold after the change. Question here is, if I do not own (for example) a black horse on any character before the change, will I still be able to buy that skin after the change for 42.7k in game gold, or will it be removed as an in-game purchase and only be available in the cash shop for IRL $/£ or Crowns or whatever?

2. Please confirm the max that our characters can be trained for in each skill - because the horses currently have different stats, do I need to own (for example) a draft horse now and have it fed 50 times for carrying to ever be able to reach the carrying max after the changeover, or will I be able to train myself 60 times after the changeover so that I don't miss out on those 10 inventory slots from the base draft horse stat?

The official responses on the thread deal with what will happen to peoples' existing horses come the changeover - I want to know whether those of us who do not yet have every horse appearance and fed up to max (horse base of 10 + 50 feedings for that base stat, for expensive horses at least) will miss out in any way.


EDIT: Also is it my imagination, or is there no longer any hover-over text for what the different horse foods provide? Only just noticed that.

From my play time on today's PTS...
(1) Yes, you can still buy a horse you don't have, same price 42k gold. All character's on pts can use that skin. Its in your collection tab, like a disguise.
( a). Each character has its own horse statistics. Given by max achieved skill for THAT character. If you have a capacity horse with 50 slots - you get 50 slots. Add to that your max stamina, speed and you get total for character's horse.
(b.) My new pts toon did NOT have the imperial horse or palamino available to purchase until I logged into my main ( from Live) then going back to new character it was available to buy another or use skin.
(c). Not realizing Info from (b) above I bought new black horse on pts. Now my main character ( from live but on pts) can use that skin.

(2). The max stat for horses skill is 60, Sixty. This may change?¿
(a). You still feed your horse ONE helping a day. The helping is now called " riding skill" and still 250 g. The skill is still Stamina, Speed or Capacity.
(b). On LIVE you can now feed 3 horses each day and have all three stats combine on one horse when this version 1.6 comes there. Of course you can buy as many as you want on pts too. Personally I'd take the time between now and March and level a horse on Live.

The CROWN store was not available, and may not be for a week if rumors are true. I expect what will be there will be what is in game already, i.e. Imperial Edition, Palamino for REAL cash. And cosmetic skins like White maned Black Horse for Crowns.

YMMV

~Sly

SLy_Kyti

Turelus wrote: »

@MSchroeder I have a question to try and fully understand what's happening here.

In order to reach the full level 60 in rider skills for 1.6 you must have reached the current max possible in each area.

Speed
Light Horse 25% + 50 ranks = 75%, becomes Rider Level 60.
Other Horse 15% + 50 ranks = 65%, becomes Rider Level 50.

Stamina
Gaited Horse 20 + 50 = 70, becomes Rider Level 60.
Other Horse 10 + 50 = 60, becomes Rider Level 50.

Carrying
Draft Horse 10 + 50 = 60, becomes Rider Level 60.
Other Horse 0 + 50 = 50, become Rider Level 50.

The above is the simple and correct way these conversions will happen?

Sorry my friend but your calculations are incorrect.
Horses start out with a skill point spent so can only presently be leveled on Live server to 50 max skills. That's 49 upgrades.
The calculations are for example a Draft horse 10 + 49 = 59.
The max skill available looks to be 60 on PTS. I will confirm after some much need sleep ( sleepy Kyti). It may go to 75, enabling all horses to be maxed higher.
Thanks for your good questions.

olemanwinter

Valencer wrote: »

Now these kind of interesting trade-offs are not going to be there anymore.

That's the point. Diversity of play-style, diversity of strategy is being killed. Don't you people understand yet. Everytime someone at Zos lifts a finger diversity dies.

From little things like the horses to big things like entire classes.

Look at the nerf to Veil of Blades damage mitigation, which will effectively ruin the NB healing build.

GaldorP

I currently have all 6 types of horses on my main character. All lv 50 and all with max speed.

Does that mean that, after the conversion, I will have the same amount of speed riding skill points as a person who had only a single lv 50 horse with maxed speed and all other points I spent will be wasted?

Also, will there be any compensation for the stable place updates we bought? If I remember correctly, the last stable place update alone costed 100'000 gold.

Slurg

Epona222 wrote: »

EDIT: Also is it my imagination, or is there no longer any hover-over text for what the different horse foods provide? Only just noticed that.

I noticed the lack of mouse over text that started recently as well. Also one of my characters has a horse with saddlebags now that should not have saddlebags because I did not feed it oats 20 times. I /bug reported it.

Edit: on live server, not PTS.

Turelus

SLy_Kyti wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

@MSchroeder I have a question to try and fully understand what's happening here.

In order to reach the full level 60 in rider skills for 1.6 you must have reached the current max possible in each area.

Speed
Light Horse 25% + 50 ranks = 75%, becomes Rider Level 60.
Other Horse 15% + 50 ranks = 65%, becomes Rider Level 50.

Stamina
Gaited Horse 20 + 50 = 70, becomes Rider Level 60.
Other Horse 10 + 50 = 60, becomes Rider Level 50.

Carrying
Draft Horse 10 + 50 = 60, becomes Rider Level 60.
Other Horse 0 + 50 = 50, become Rider Level 50.

The above is the simple and correct way these conversions will happen?

Sorry my friend but your calculations are incorrect.
Horses start out with a skill point spent so can only presently be leveled on Live server to 50 max skills. That's 49 upgrades.
The calculations are for example a Draft horse 10 + 49 = 59.
The max skill available looks to be 60 on PTS. I will confirm after some much need sleep ( sleepy Kyti). It may go to 75, enabling all horses to be maxed higher.
Thanks for your good questions.

I was assuming the bonus point you get in all areas when purchasing your 49th point would be counted as well.

Heruthema

My only problem with this new system is that they did not let us know way back when they decided to do it so we could STOP buying horses. Now if I have bought ONE speed horse ALL my characters can use it. So I have spent Thousands in gold on horses for each character that I could have used elsewhere had they just let us know.
I like the fact that horses are account wide items, just not happy that gold was used for something that was not needed.

Lord_Draevan

starkerealm wrote: »

I've got this mental image of the Daggerfall's Stablemaster cramming raw oats into my character's mouth, while yelling at passers by.

Oh god the mental image :disagree:
"Mommy, what that man doing?"
"Don't look, sweetie..."
"NOM NOM FEED ME MOAR OATS"
Then it gets to the point of:

Skrofler

Heruthema wrote: »

My only problem with this new system is that they did not let us know way back when they decided to do it so we could STOP buying horses. Now if I have bought ONE speed horse ALL my characters can use it. So I have spent Thousands in gold on horses for each character that I could have used elsewhere had they just let us know.
I like the fact that horses are account wide items, just not happy that gold was used for something that was not needed.

I'm pleased to tell you you've got it all wrong.

Only visuals are account wide. If only one of your characters has a white horse, all characters will soon have a white horse.

But the stats will still count per character. If only one of your characters has a +50 speed horse now, only that character will have +50 (or equivalent) riding skill post patch.

What I would like to know is whether it would be a waste to buy a horse for my fresh character now. I.e. will the initial riding skill cost 17k or is it free?
It looks like bad economy to buy a fast horse now since I would be paying 26k extra for 2500 worth of upgrades.

Valencer

The stats are going to be on a per-character basis, but in the end you'll have wasted 42.7k because you could just as easily have bought the imperial horse or even the normal brown horse (and still save 25.7k) and upgraded that one. In the worst case scenario you'll have to spend 2.5k to get the 10 missing points.

Your last sentence describes the problem perfectly.

Refunds for any additional 42.7k horses (not the first one you bought of a specific breed) would be nice, but I doubt it's even on their radar right now.

Another issue that I'm personally annoyed with is that hybrid horses get screwed over in the conversion. Everybody who stacked one stat on every horse (speed horse, inventory horse) can immediately max out the system.

Meanwhile, my main has a 25-20-4 light horse (+10 speed) and a 29-0-20 draft horse (+10 inventory) and by their description I'll end up with 35-20-30 riding stats, leaving me with more than half of the system to work through. Buying a new horse to level the remaining stats is pointless at this point, as Ill need 20 days to surpass even the lowest stat of my 2 existing horses. So I'm out of options.