In response to the ongoing issue, the North American and European megaservers are currently unavailable while we perform maintenance.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
The issues have been resolved, and the ESO Store and Account System are now available. Thank you for your patience!
The issue is resolved, and the North American and European PC/Mac megaservers are now available. Thank you for your patience!
We are currently investigating issues some players are having on the megaservers. We will update as new information becomes available.
A Final Plea for Clemency on the B2P/F2P decision
mamericus
✭✭✭
This post is meant as an open letter to the producers and development team of The Elder Scrolls Online at Zenimax Online Studios.
Full disclosure: I just cancelled my subscription and I absolutely abhor this decision. This is a plea to the producers of the game detailing my grievances and I'm hoping some of my fellow community members and ZoS staff may agree with at least some of what is said here. I do not know at this point whether I will continue to play this game; I'm just nursing the heartache for now.
I've spent the better part of last year playing, enjoying, and promoting this game among everybody I know. I started this game back in Beta with a few of my real life friends. They all quit a few months after launch, claiming the game had "failed", but of course some gamers will say that about any game they don't like. Not I; I stayed, and I would spend hours every week defending this game against anyone who would dare speak ill of it. I was already a huge fan of the Elder Scrolls franchise when I started playing, and I remain one to this day. For this reason alone, I would've endured any downsides to this game that came along (bugs, dropping population, exploits; there weren't that many downsides to this game for me, really), anything except this.
Why am I angry? Because you lied. You may have never stated "We will never go B2P/F2P" but you lied by omission. You lied when you removed the 180 day subscription model from your site and the only official reply from a community manager on the entire forums was in French and purposely omitted the real reason behind the move. You lied to your customers, to the people who paid for your product and supported your business endeavour. You lied to the people who defended you and the people who voted for you (on MMORPG.com). I don't hold a grudge against Zenimax Online Studios because I am not naïve and I realise this was simply a business decision and not meant to hurt anyone, but I would have preferred you kept your integrity in the process.
At this stage, I feel betrayed and I feel cheated. There are some people on the forums accusing you of using our subscription fees to fund a sort of "prolonged beta" while you released the game on all platforms; I do not share their sentiments at all. I do not mind having paid and thus contributed to the development of this game and would not mind continuing to do so. If you had asked for donations during Beta I would have gladly contributed back then. But what is unacceptable to me is making a decision like this without immediately and clearly communicating it to your subscribers. I even spent time on these same forums trying to dismiss the rumours and rebuke the doomsayers and pessimists heralding the eventual arrival of a free-to-play model. You have made me look like an idiot.
Why am I worried? I may not be able to consider myself a "hardcore" gamer when it comes to MMO's, but I've played a couple in the past (EVE, LotRO, SWTOR), and two of the games I've loved the most and spent YEARS of my life playing and enjoying, have been utterly ruined by decisions like this, and at this point it is absolutely impossible for me to remain optimistic and believe this one will not suffer the same fate.
Why don't I like this? So many reasons... Many people are worried you will use this model to block content or zones, cram mindless and meaningless fluff down our throats, or give some players a competitive edge through cash (P2W), and while I have no doubt that you will be doing all of these things (because every game that has made this decision in the past, even those that had pledged not to do these things, ended up doing them all) and share these legitimate concerns, I also have other more selfish reasons of my own.
Like many gamers, I have a mild undiagnosed case of obsessive compulsive disorder and when I play a game like this, I like to try and get every achievement, Easter egg, outfit, piece of fluff, etc. that's available in the game. Developers realise this recurrent behavior in gamers, and when a game announces an online store, it means they will be releasing a TON of fluff content to try and exploit this market niche. To me, that is evil and immoral. A palomino horse on launch, a few pets now and then, game merchandise is fine. I even bought a bristlegut piglet on Ebay myself because I wanted one so bad, and have purchased several items from the Bethesda store, but the amount of items you will undoubtedly make available through your in-game store and the scale of it, all meant to squeeze the last dollar out of everyone's pocket with content you bought with cash rather than earned is just plain wrong. This is not rewarding players, it's extorting them.
Some people claim one of the good points of this move is the potential of attracting a larger player base. This game is rated M for mature content. In the United States that means only people of age 17+ are legally allowed to purchase/should be playing this game. That being the case, I think it's safe to assume most people of that age (who are able to afford a computer to play this game on) are able to afford $15 a month on a subscription model. So my conclusion is yes, the B2P/F2P model may indeed attract more players, but it is my belief it mostly translates into a greater influx underage players (who do not usually own credit cards and are not always able to afford/allowed by parents to get a subscription), which should technically not even be playing this game, but of course you don't care about that because you put up a disclaimer. In any case, I would hate to see this game turn into a children's playground. I have nothing against children, but in a game that is supposed to have a mature lore and be as immersive as this one, the usual banter and nonsense that comes with younger teens interactions is undesirable to me in a game like this. This is of course subjective, but I did mention my reasons were selfish. So more population thanks to B2P/F2P? Maybe. Better one? Hardly.
Speaking of immersion... No matter how seamlessly you try to integrate this new in-game store into your UI (because undoubtedly there will be one), a store where you can buy features and mounts and fluff displaying my cash balance will just look SO unnatural in an otherwise beautiful, immersive, minimalistic UI (Yes, I'm one of those people who actually loves it and tries to keep it as vanilla as possible. I did mention I was one of your supporters, remember?).
Some people are concerned about content or zones being blocked or gated through the online store. While this is not a huge concern for me, and I understand that these "Premium" member benefits for people who continue their subscription will include access to most of this content, it is annoying we will likely have to enter this hideous in-game store and spend what will surely be our "monthly allowance" of crowns for being subscribed on content that up until now, has just be granted to us naturally and seamlessly as content updates.
Unfair advantages... While you may do your utmost not to introduce any game-breaking, balance-breaking, unfair competitive advantages as items in this in-game store, it always ends up being the case down the line. Even if it's a mount with slightly better stats, or pots that heal for one hitpoint more of anything, the fact that there will be a possibility to acquire things in the game through cash rather than earning them through playing, no matter how marginal the benefits, is completely disgusting. No matter how adamantly producers defend this point, every game in the market with an in-game store (micro-transactions) is a Pay to Win game.
The gameworld economy will suffer from this. Already it is not the most successful and booming economy ever seen in an MMO. But it's functional and it works as it is. Through the eventual inevitable introduction of items in the in-game store that are available in-game through other means, the gameworld's economy will suffer. I don't think anyone can really predict what the impact will be and to what extent, but I don't think it bodes well.
Make no mistake: opponents of this model are not making a case against equal opportunity. I am no elitist jerk who wants to keep new players or casual players or free players from achieving the same things I could as a subscriber. This is a case for fairness, integrity, and allowing players to enjoy your amazing game fully, by playing it. One of your developers said it best recently in the last episode of ESO Live when asked about animation cancellation, he said something along the lines of "players should be able to do whatever they want [in the game]" but this should NEVER come at the cost of squeezing a few dollars more for every thing they want to do. Especially from those who have already been gladly paying to enjoy the game, while supporting it, and defending it, and voting for it. It's greedy and immoral, and it will ruin the game for so many of us.
What can you do about this? Ideally? Reverse this decision. I know it's never going to happen, and I can tell this has probably been in the works for a while now and you may already have agreements with Microsoft and Sony about this, but I'm holding on to a sliver of faith here that you will listen to your player base (not the potential one but the one that has already been paying, playing and supporting this game for the past year) and do what is right by them. As developers and ZoS staff? Support us. Protest this. Do and say what you think is right, as any citizen of Tamriel would. If the problem is revenue and you are able to maintain development at the current rate, I'd be more than happy to pay double for my subscription, and I personally know many people who would do the same, and I'm confident thousands more would too. We are willing to pay for expansions; heck, a lot of the updates you have done could be considered expansions in their own right.
If the game is unsustainable even then and people just keep leaving it then for heaven's sake, give it an ending and let it die with dignity! Keep your integrity! I would be right there with you to the end! Then you can move on, and devote resources to bigger, newer and better projects that we will also contribute to because we would know that you did right by this one. Don't sell out you IP like this... Do you think the Elder Scrolls franchise would have had the success it had if you had allowed modders to sell their creations as micro-transactions? Your games are famous thanks to your most loyal players: honour them.
If doing what is right does not sway you, think about this: the kind of press you would get for having the chutzpah to reverse this decision based on player feedback would earn you the respect and loyalty of so many gamers and publications.
But, like I said earlier, I am not naïve. So if my faith is misplaced, I suppose at least allow us to be a part of this, as you have with everything else so far in the game's development. Put it up on the PTS and allow us to give you our feedback about the model and its systems. A few of my suggestions would be: only sell items in the store that are automatically and unrestrictedly available to subscribers in the game as it is (sure with a new mount or vanity pet every now and then only); put the store on the browser, and not in-game, so you don't pollute that beautiful UI with something subscribers don't want to see, and don't give anyone immediate advantages that will be mailed to them without even leaving the client; make the references to purchase items or bonuses from the store simple when integrated into the UI (for non-subscribers only), things like a simple line of text obscuring the slot in the UI that would allow a subscriber to research a crafting trait, pointing the free player to visit the store to unlock that right.
Basically, if this is unavoidable, try and make it as seamless for subscribers as it could be. Allow us to retain the game we have played and loved as it is, while convincing new players to join the subscription model by letting them know that nearly everything they have to pay for in small amounts, they would have access to by subscribing. If the numbers still don't add up with that, increase the subscription price anyway, I would still subscribe if I knew these compromises were being made.
I want a game that lets me earn things through playing, not buy them with real cash.
I apologise for the length of this; I did not originally plan for it to be this long, but I do hope it is a testament of how disappointed I and I'm sure many other members of this community are about this decision. If nothing can be said or done, as a parting sign of good faith for a devoted player who loved this game, it would be nice if anyone at ZoS could at least acknowledge this post. Thank you for reading.
-Your loyal customer,
Marcos Americus
(Tampico, Mexico)
Marcus Arctus, VR14 Imperial Dragonknight (DC)
Rodyrick Greyman, 26 Breton Templar (DC)
Ja'Mithro, 10 Khajiit Templar (DC)
Zhatara Yokan, 4 Redguard Nightblade (DC)
Keeps-Many-Mats, 3 Argonian Sorcerer (DC)
Delos Hlaalu, 4 Dunmer Sorcerer (DC)
Hrolfjen, 5 Nord Dragonknight (EP)
Artánaro, 7 Altmer Nightblade (AD)
EDIT: fixed a typo.
Edited by mamericus on January 21, 2015 6:50PM Full disclosure: I just cancelled my subscription and I absolutely abhor this decision. This is a plea to the producers of the game detailing my grievances and I'm hoping some of my fellow community members and ZoS staff may agree with at least some of what is said here. I do not know at this point whether I will continue to play this game; I'm just nursing the heartache for now.
I've spent the better part of last year playing, enjoying, and promoting this game among everybody I know. I started this game back in Beta with a few of my real life friends. They all quit a few months after launch, claiming the game had "failed", but of course some gamers will say that about any game they don't like. Not I; I stayed, and I would spend hours every week defending this game against anyone who would dare speak ill of it. I was already a huge fan of the Elder Scrolls franchise when I started playing, and I remain one to this day. For this reason alone, I would've endured any downsides to this game that came along (bugs, dropping population, exploits; there weren't that many downsides to this game for me, really), anything except this.
Why am I angry? Because you lied. You may have never stated "We will never go B2P/F2P" but you lied by omission. You lied when you removed the 180 day subscription model from your site and the only official reply from a community manager on the entire forums was in French and purposely omitted the real reason behind the move. You lied to your customers, to the people who paid for your product and supported your business endeavour. You lied to the people who defended you and the people who voted for you (on MMORPG.com). I don't hold a grudge against Zenimax Online Studios because I am not naïve and I realise this was simply a business decision and not meant to hurt anyone, but I would have preferred you kept your integrity in the process.
At this stage, I feel betrayed and I feel cheated. There are some people on the forums accusing you of using our subscription fees to fund a sort of "prolonged beta" while you released the game on all platforms; I do not share their sentiments at all. I do not mind having paid and thus contributed to the development of this game and would not mind continuing to do so. If you had asked for donations during Beta I would have gladly contributed back then. But what is unacceptable to me is making a decision like this without immediately and clearly communicating it to your subscribers. I even spent time on these same forums trying to dismiss the rumours and rebuke the doomsayers and pessimists heralding the eventual arrival of a free-to-play model. You have made me look like an idiot.
Why am I worried? I may not be able to consider myself a "hardcore" gamer when it comes to MMO's, but I've played a couple in the past (EVE, LotRO, SWTOR), and two of the games I've loved the most and spent YEARS of my life playing and enjoying, have been utterly ruined by decisions like this, and at this point it is absolutely impossible for me to remain optimistic and believe this one will not suffer the same fate.
Why don't I like this? So many reasons... Many people are worried you will use this model to block content or zones, cram mindless and meaningless fluff down our throats, or give some players a competitive edge through cash (P2W), and while I have no doubt that you will be doing all of these things (because every game that has made this decision in the past, even those that had pledged not to do these things, ended up doing them all) and share these legitimate concerns, I also have other more selfish reasons of my own.
Like many gamers, I have a mild undiagnosed case of obsessive compulsive disorder and when I play a game like this, I like to try and get every achievement, Easter egg, outfit, piece of fluff, etc. that's available in the game. Developers realise this recurrent behavior in gamers, and when a game announces an online store, it means they will be releasing a TON of fluff content to try and exploit this market niche. To me, that is evil and immoral. A palomino horse on launch, a few pets now and then, game merchandise is fine. I even bought a bristlegut piglet on Ebay myself because I wanted one so bad, and have purchased several items from the Bethesda store, but the amount of items you will undoubtedly make available through your in-game store and the scale of it, all meant to squeeze the last dollar out of everyone's pocket with content you bought with cash rather than earned is just plain wrong. This is not rewarding players, it's extorting them.
Some people claim one of the good points of this move is the potential of attracting a larger player base. This game is rated M for mature content. In the United States that means only people of age 17+ are legally allowed to purchase/should be playing this game. That being the case, I think it's safe to assume most people of that age (who are able to afford a computer to play this game on) are able to afford $15 a month on a subscription model. So my conclusion is yes, the B2P/F2P model may indeed attract more players, but it is my belief it mostly translates into a greater influx underage players (who do not usually own credit cards and are not always able to afford/allowed by parents to get a subscription), which should technically not even be playing this game, but of course you don't care about that because you put up a disclaimer. In any case, I would hate to see this game turn into a children's playground. I have nothing against children, but in a game that is supposed to have a mature lore and be as immersive as this one, the usual banter and nonsense that comes with younger teens interactions is undesirable to me in a game like this. This is of course subjective, but I did mention my reasons were selfish. So more population thanks to B2P/F2P? Maybe. Better one? Hardly.
Speaking of immersion... No matter how seamlessly you try to integrate this new in-game store into your UI (because undoubtedly there will be one), a store where you can buy features and mounts and fluff displaying my cash balance will just look SO unnatural in an otherwise beautiful, immersive, minimalistic UI (Yes, I'm one of those people who actually loves it and tries to keep it as vanilla as possible. I did mention I was one of your supporters, remember?).
Some people are concerned about content or zones being blocked or gated through the online store. While this is not a huge concern for me, and I understand that these "Premium" member benefits for people who continue their subscription will include access to most of this content, it is annoying we will likely have to enter this hideous in-game store and spend what will surely be our "monthly allowance" of crowns for being subscribed on content that up until now, has just be granted to us naturally and seamlessly as content updates.
Unfair advantages... While you may do your utmost not to introduce any game-breaking, balance-breaking, unfair competitive advantages as items in this in-game store, it always ends up being the case down the line. Even if it's a mount with slightly better stats, or pots that heal for one hitpoint more of anything, the fact that there will be a possibility to acquire things in the game through cash rather than earning them through playing, no matter how marginal the benefits, is completely disgusting. No matter how adamantly producers defend this point, every game in the market with an in-game store (micro-transactions) is a Pay to Win game.
The gameworld economy will suffer from this. Already it is not the most successful and booming economy ever seen in an MMO. But it's functional and it works as it is. Through the eventual inevitable introduction of items in the in-game store that are available in-game through other means, the gameworld's economy will suffer. I don't think anyone can really predict what the impact will be and to what extent, but I don't think it bodes well.
Make no mistake: opponents of this model are not making a case against equal opportunity. I am no elitist jerk who wants to keep new players or casual players or free players from achieving the same things I could as a subscriber. This is a case for fairness, integrity, and allowing players to enjoy your amazing game fully, by playing it. One of your developers said it best recently in the last episode of ESO Live when asked about animation cancellation, he said something along the lines of "players should be able to do whatever they want [in the game]" but this should NEVER come at the cost of squeezing a few dollars more for every thing they want to do. Especially from those who have already been gladly paying to enjoy the game, while supporting it, and defending it, and voting for it. It's greedy and immoral, and it will ruin the game for so many of us.
What can you do about this? Ideally? Reverse this decision. I know it's never going to happen, and I can tell this has probably been in the works for a while now and you may already have agreements with Microsoft and Sony about this, but I'm holding on to a sliver of faith here that you will listen to your player base (not the potential one but the one that has already been paying, playing and supporting this game for the past year) and do what is right by them. As developers and ZoS staff? Support us. Protest this. Do and say what you think is right, as any citizen of Tamriel would. If the problem is revenue and you are able to maintain development at the current rate, I'd be more than happy to pay double for my subscription, and I personally know many people who would do the same, and I'm confident thousands more would too. We are willing to pay for expansions; heck, a lot of the updates you have done could be considered expansions in their own right.
If the game is unsustainable even then and people just keep leaving it then for heaven's sake, give it an ending and let it die with dignity! Keep your integrity! I would be right there with you to the end! Then you can move on, and devote resources to bigger, newer and better projects that we will also contribute to because we would know that you did right by this one. Don't sell out you IP like this... Do you think the Elder Scrolls franchise would have had the success it had if you had allowed modders to sell their creations as micro-transactions? Your games are famous thanks to your most loyal players: honour them.
If doing what is right does not sway you, think about this: the kind of press you would get for having the chutzpah to reverse this decision based on player feedback would earn you the respect and loyalty of so many gamers and publications.
But, like I said earlier, I am not naïve. So if my faith is misplaced, I suppose at least allow us to be a part of this, as you have with everything else so far in the game's development. Put it up on the PTS and allow us to give you our feedback about the model and its systems. A few of my suggestions would be: only sell items in the store that are automatically and unrestrictedly available to subscribers in the game as it is (sure with a new mount or vanity pet every now and then only); put the store on the browser, and not in-game, so you don't pollute that beautiful UI with something subscribers don't want to see, and don't give anyone immediate advantages that will be mailed to them without even leaving the client; make the references to purchase items or bonuses from the store simple when integrated into the UI (for non-subscribers only), things like a simple line of text obscuring the slot in the UI that would allow a subscriber to research a crafting trait, pointing the free player to visit the store to unlock that right.
Basically, if this is unavoidable, try and make it as seamless for subscribers as it could be. Allow us to retain the game we have played and loved as it is, while convincing new players to join the subscription model by letting them know that nearly everything they have to pay for in small amounts, they would have access to by subscribing. If the numbers still don't add up with that, increase the subscription price anyway, I would still subscribe if I knew these compromises were being made.
I want a game that lets me earn things through playing, not buy them with real cash.
I apologise for the length of this; I did not originally plan for it to be this long, but I do hope it is a testament of how disappointed I and I'm sure many other members of this community are about this decision. If nothing can be said or done, as a parting sign of good faith for a devoted player who loved this game, it would be nice if anyone at ZoS could at least acknowledge this post. Thank you for reading.
-Your loyal customer,
Marcos Americus
(Tampico, Mexico)
Marcus Arctus, VR14 Imperial Dragonknight (DC)
Rodyrick Greyman, 26 Breton Templar (DC)
Ja'Mithro, 10 Khajiit Templar (DC)
Zhatara Yokan, 4 Redguard Nightblade (DC)
Keeps-Many-Mats, 3 Argonian Sorcerer (DC)
Delos Hlaalu, 4 Dunmer Sorcerer (DC)
Hrolfjen, 5 Nord Dragonknight (EP)
Artánaro, 7 Altmer Nightblade (AD)
EDIT: fixed a typo.
77
-
tinythinker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Which is why you can let go of that sliver of hope of a chance that this decision will be a reversed. First and foremost Zenimax Media, Inc, Bethesda Softworks, LLC, and Zenimax Online Studios, LLC, are businesses whose first priority is to produce a product or provide a service that makes a profit.Reverse this decision. I know it's never going to happen, and I can tell this has probably been in the works for a while now and you may already have agreements with Microsoft and Sony about this
The best protesting players can hope for is raise a fuss that limits how much buy-to-play starts to resemble pay-to-win. There are many fence sitters who will not cross that line, but they also define that line on an individual basis. The game will always move toward whatever model is most profitable.❤Experienced, new, returner?❤ Help keep ESO's community strong ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ -- share what you love about the game, offer constructive feedback, and make friends.ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Who are you in Tamriel (whether it's just your character's attitude & style or a full backstory)? - Share your Character's Story! ◔ ⌣ ◔
(And let us know 🔷What Kind of Roleplayer You Are🔷 - even if that only extends to choosing your race)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Support Mudcrab Mode for ESO (\/)!_!(\/) - part joke, part serious, all glorious! You butter be ready for this3 -
Plantagenet✭✭✭
After flat out lying to us for over a year, I doubt they even care.
We are simply money sponges, and this is the best way to squeeze us.7 -
Shurta✭✭(agree, agree, agree, agree, agree, ....) in {agree}^(+infinity) (this forum misses of mathematical symbols...
) Edited by Shurta on January 21, 2015 6:59PM"Faire un personnage qui n'est pas original est déjà original quand l'originalité est devenue une banalité."Graziella Briselame.1 -
Kraven✭✭✭✭✭Matt Firor, "Charging a flat monthly (or subscription) fee means that we will offer players the game we set out to make, and the one that fans want to play. Going with any other model meant that we would have to make sacrifices and changes we weren’t willing to make.”
“Our fans are our biggest inspiration, and we’ve listened to their feedback on the entertainment experience they want,” said Matt Firor
There is just no justifying it any longer. I call Bull ***.
I support what you are trying to say. However, at this point they've stopped listening, if they ever listened in the first place.
Be prepared for this to be closed as another "good bye" post, they've been deleting posts all morning. The decision won't be reversed and is likely to be one they regret down the road.V14 - IMPERIAL NIGHTBLADE - DPS/TANK
V13 - BRETON SORCERER - HEALS/DPS
V2 - REDGUARD DRAGONKNIGHT - MELEE DPS
V1 - BRETON TEMPLAR - TANK/DPS
to be continued... Nevermind, no longer "to be continued"10 -
Torquebow✭✭✭Awesome right up OP. I also withheld my sub, mainly as a precaution as I don't and NEVER will support P2W games. No matter how small, if you have a advantage that you can buy in a cash shop or by paying a fee, that someone else doesn't have then it is P2W.
We will see how things go from here but I am pretty frustrated right now with the MMO market in general.3 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭WoW is doing good still lol sucks ESO caved in this soon tbh. WoW isnt even that good of a game.4 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Im upset because they have delayed all this new content so they can develop the pay to win system. If I had known this was coming id have cancelled my sub and waited. Ive been paying for two months not playing my characters because of this champion system. Now I see why its been delayed so long. We could have had this and the justice system months ago but they had to develop the pay to win store first.11 -
Torquebow✭✭✭SavageHenry wrote: »all I got from this was you where quite happy paying monthly for a mediocre game and bashing any one who dare to disagree with you, and your not happy because this greedy company is no longer taking you money every month.
you are the poster boy for why the gaming industry is the way it is. Maybe just maybe if you didn't get so emotionally involved with a company who's only purpose is to make money you wouldn't be so surprised or up set.
Poor chap, all weepy cause you Favorite company lied to you.
Really?... all I got from was the OP really liked the game and didnt want to see it changed for the worse. Maybe your attitude is just ***....
I'd agree that the game is mediocre right now, but it's not very old either, most games take time to go from ok or decent to really good.
Edited by Torquebow on January 21, 2015 7:08PM1 -
Kraven✭✭✭✭✭WoW is doing good still lol sucks ESO caved in this soon tbh. WoW isnt even that good of a game.
Not to mention DAoC, which many of these devs worked on is Still subscription. So they caved because they themselves no longer have faith in their own product being worth the money. OR it's a cash grab, that will at best earn increased profit for a short period of time.V14 - IMPERIAL NIGHTBLADE - DPS/TANK
V13 - BRETON SORCERER - HEALS/DPS
V2 - REDGUARD DRAGONKNIGHT - MELEE DPS
V1 - BRETON TEMPLAR - TANK/DPS
to be continued... Nevermind, no longer "to be continued"2 -
mamericus✭✭✭tinythinker wrote: »
Which is why you can let go of that sliver of hope of a chance that this decision will be a reversed. First and foremost Zenimax Media, Inc, Bethesda Softworks, LLC, and Zenimax Online Studios, LLC, are businesses whose first priority is to produce a product or provide a service that makes a profit.Reverse this decision. I know it's never going to happen, and I can tell this has probably been in the works for a while now and you may already have agreements with Microsoft and Sony about this
Precisely why I chose the word faith, and not hope. Implying I am praying to Akatosh for this, not actually expecting it to happen. Also, while I do not contest you may be absolutely right, I still like to think we live in a better world where some companies still say and do what is best for their customers, and not their pockets. And even in the event that they were just another greedy business out to make a profit no matter how, I attempted to provide an argument that it would be a more dignified way to do so to just provide this game with an ending and pull the plug on it, and devote resources to other games, rather than ruin this for so many of us.1 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WoW is doing good still lol sucks ESO caved in this soon tbh. WoW isnt even that good of a game.
Not to mention DAoC, which many of these devs worked on is Still subscription. So they caved because they themselves no longer have faith in their own product being worth the money. OR it's a cash grab, that will at best earn increased profit for a short period of time.
They wanted to release on the consoles. The only way possible to do this was have a buy to play game. Microsoft made it clear people would be required to pay for xbox live gold and there was no way around it. So the only choice they had was to make the game buy to play. They think they will get more cash from the console players.7 -
Sinlar✭✭✭This one is willing to wait and see what develops. Make no mistake though, if they ruin the beautiful world that I have come to love, I will do all that I can to ruin theirs.4 -
mamericus✭✭✭SavageHenry wrote: »...
This game is not B2P/F2P yet. Please don't insult it. [...]
[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]Edited by ZOS_EveP on January 23, 2015 11:37AM2 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »WoW is doing good still lol sucks ESO caved in this soon tbh. WoW isnt even that good of a game.
Not to mention DAoC, which many of these devs worked on is Still subscription. So they caved because they themselves no longer have faith in their own product being worth the money. OR it's a cash grab, that will at best earn increased profit for a short period of time.
They wanted to release on the consoles. The only way possible to do this was have a buy to play game. Microsoft made it clear people would be required to pay for xbox live gold and there was no way around it. So the only choice they had was to make the game buy to play. They think they will get more cash from the console players.
It will definitely supplement whatever theyre making now.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax0 -
SavageHenry✭✭✭SavageHenry wrote: »all I got from this was you where quite happy paying monthly for a mediocre game and bashing any one who dare to disagree with you, and your not happy because this greedy company is no longer taking you money every month.
you are the poster boy for why the gaming industry is the way it is. Maybe just maybe if you didn't get so emotionally involved with a company who's only purpose is to make money you wouldn't be so surprised or up set.
Poor chap, all weepy cause you Favorite company lied to you.
Really all I got from was the OP really liked the game and didnt want to see it changed for the worse. Maybe your attitude is just ***....
I'd agree that the game is mediocre right now, but it's not very old either, most games take time to go from ok or decent to really good.
Nope my attitude is fine, if it where other wise my post would have been filled with trollish nonsense. as is, it is more a reflection of a subsection of the gaming community, who are quite happy to fork out for substandard games, sold on false promises, and hacked apart to be sold to you bit by bit.
And the OP is a prime example of those who eagerly defend it and trash others because they get a little bit of enjoyment out of it.
Was I harsh in how a worded this sentiment yes, But I have no time for fluffy bunny's defending mediocrity at a premium to the rest of us.1 -
ItsMeToo✭✭✭✭✭...Edited by ItsMeToo on January 21, 2015 7:19PMFYI - There is no such thing as 'night capping' in a world wide MMO.FYI - There was no paid Beta. When they launched the game the Beta was over, even if you don't think it was.FYI - It's B2P not F2P. There is a difference.FYI - It doesn't take any player skill to mash keys or buttons in this game. The ones that stay alive longer have the better internet connection and speed.FYI - The game is not broken, it still works. It just has 'bugs' that need to be fixed.Balance is a "Bad" thing.
Example: There were hundreds of Jedi and only two Sith in Star Wars. The Jedi wanted, "Balance in the Force" and they got it. Now there are only two Jedi and two Sith.
Balance is a "Bad" thing.Is the glass half full or half empty?
I say, "Get a smaller glass."0 -
Kevingway✭✭✭We can't blame consoles. At most, Zenimax would have had to have lost a little bit of money to the console subscription models in order to keep the game there. Instead, they decided to make the same profit from the console versions as they otherwise already would have and remove regular subscriptions.
Game companies profit from the PS4 and Xbone sub fees too, remember. That could have easily replaced the standard ESO sub fee while simultaneously keeping the sub fee for PCs.1 -
Grapdjan✭✭✭✭I'm personally looking forward to the transition, I'm sorry you are not. I don't feel it is really as bad as people imagine. It's just more options and therefore more players.2 -
SavageHenry✭✭✭SavageHenry wrote: »...
This game is not B2P/F2P yet. Please don't insult it.[...]
It is by no means a fantastic game, You might think it is, you may wish and hope all you want but is just a standard MMO with an elder scrolls skin.
Where it as fantastic as you claim it to be would they have needed such a change in their pricing? would they have needed to "lie" about it?
would players have left in the numbers they did? would it have gotten the reviews it has? So Fantastic most certainly not.
[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]Edited by ZOS_EveP on January 23, 2015 11:38AM2 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭In point of fact Sage or Firor explicitly said they would kill the game before shifting from a sub model.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT3 -
mamericus✭✭✭SavageHenry wrote: »
It is by no means a fantastic game, You might think it is, you may wish and hope all you want but is just a standard MMO with an elder scrolls skin.
Where it as fantastic as you claim it to be would they have needed such a change in their pricing? would they have needed to "lie" about it?
would players have left in the numbers they did? would it have gotten the reviews it has? So Fantastic most certainly not.
*Sigh* I now wish you had left along with all those players...
First off, the term fantastic in the above context, is meant to be subjective, meaning I like it. You don't clearly, that's fine.
Secondly, there's nothing standard about this MMO.
Thirdly, if you are so displeased with this game, what are you doing here, exactly? If you are bored, would you like to go play something together on Steam? Otherwise, would you please go troll somewhere else?4 -
Kraven✭✭✭✭✭In point of fact Sage or Firor explicitly said they would kill the game before shifting from a sub model.
^This. Which means from the ground up the company is just straight full of ***.V14 - IMPERIAL NIGHTBLADE - DPS/TANK
V13 - BRETON SORCERER - HEALS/DPS
V2 - REDGUARD DRAGONKNIGHT - MELEE DPS
V1 - BRETON TEMPLAR - TANK/DPS
to be continued... Nevermind, no longer "to be continued"1
