Official Discussion Thread for “Your Guide to ESO Plus™ Premium Membership”

Rashishane

phreatophile wrote: »

I watched "ESO Live: All about Tamriel Unlimited"

Parts of it looked like a hostage video and I'm trying to decide if Paul's shirt was a distress signal like when they fly the flag upsidedown at an embassy.

Kidding aside, lots of cool items in crown shop. So far this doesn't look to bad.

Like most everyone else that's staying, the day I see P2W items in the store, I'm out, but for now looks pretty cool.

I KNOW! The whole beginning of the video you can see the strain on their faces as they try to avoid saying "B2P" instead of "non-subscription model" and when the interviewer says "F2P" you can see them both go "nooooo!!!!" until they realize what the interviewer is actually saying. I was curious how their morning yesterday started up- I was imagining a meeting with the entire company like "TODAY IS THE DAY PEOPLE! HOLD ON TO YOUR BUTTS BECAUSE TODAY WE WILL BE THE MOST HATED PEOPLE IN AMERICA. KEEP YOUR CHINS UP, YOUR UNDIES CLEAN, AND YOUR TEMPERS MILD! READY YOUR BATTLE CUBICLES...4...3....2.....1.....RELEASE THE B2P ANNOUNCEMENT!"

DireKit

Zenimax claims to care about what its player base thinks and feels and to listen to feedback, yet here are fourteen pages of almost solid condemnation of this decision and still in almost John Smedley/Sony Online Entertainment form (Remember the CU and NGE?) they press forward, ignoring the players.

Great business plan.

This might not be so bad if they can actually avoid making the crown shop the 'pay to win' thing that We fear it is going to be, but somehow common sense and cynicism tells us "stop showing optimism, you dumbface."

Stonesthrow

@DireKit‌

You seriously think that they were going to change their minds from yesterday because a few folks post in this thread?

You sir… you are unique in your optimism. /salute

Oh, and when you post in ALL bold, it loses it's effectiveness. Just saying.

DireKit

Stonesthrow wrote: »

@DireKit‌

You seriously think that they were going to change their minds from yesterday because a few folks post in this thread?

You sir… you are unique in your optimism. /salute

Oh, and when you post in ALL bold, it loses it's effectiveness. Just saying.

@‌Stonesthrow

Sarcasm does not translate well over text, does it? Nor does gender.

We are female and We were being sarcastic, but points for being such a try-hard.

Just saying.

Tarkit

This is a really, really, really dumb move.

Dark_Dunmer

I refrained from posting yesterday in the heat of the moment, and gave myself a day to think.

I guess the biggest issue I have it I do feel like I can't trust ZOS. I feel deliberately lied to, and honestly, I think this path has been planned for quite some time. But, truth be told, I guess this means these guys are no different than the rest of corporate America and are out for themselves, are are just the sheep they feed on.

That being said; no this isn't the path I prefer. Yes I will continue to play, for now, with a sub. But there are some things I really question and don't understand.

In its current form, ZOS can't handle the PvP load as it is, we have long waits in the evenings, and lag outs in large fights, population caps have been lowered. Now they are adding more people. Might have been smart to fix that little problem before adding to it. Pots and Soul Gems are revenue sources for players... you are taking that stream away from them or at least diluting it... not very supportive of your player base You promise the Store will only be cosmetics and convenienece items. You are selling Pots, soul gems, exp boosters, so already pushing it. You honestly, have flat out lied to use about the pay model, we have no real reason to believe that you don't plan on adding items available only in the store, equal to what can be gotten at the highest level of PvP or PvE content, or even superior to those; you realize you now have a serious credibility issue. RNG boxes/Keys are money makers. You know it. Those of us who have been around the game block know it. You have said no plans for those. See my comment above.... This appearing and/or the slippery slope above are game deletion events. ;

I thought long and hard about whether to even bother putting more time in to ESO. The game is going to change significantly. My hope is my guilds stay solid. That may help PvE for me. You, ZOS, have a responsibility to protect the stability, integrity, and viability of both PvE and PvP. I hope you are up to it. I am questioning you now in a big way. I really hope you don't go the way of SWTOR. I was sad when I walked away from that game with all the time I had put into it. I have even more time in ESO.

Dark_Dunmer

I forgot 2 things...

Gold sellers will be back

They will bring their hordes of BOTS

Wonder how ZOS will deal with them this time ?

Joseph.f.kennedyb14_ESO

They had to change the pay model some how so that it would be less costly for console players. I think this is a good compromise is they make sure they do not go over board with the Crown shop. The one thing I do not like is that everyone who has been playing & paying since launch will only get 100 crowns per month instead of the 1500 crowns per month that we will be getting after March 17th for the months already subed for.

The one thing they have to watch out for is with the new player areas. As plus members we will have access to them automatically. But is we go to Tamriel Unlimited (TU) we will loose them. But, what if you have been a plus member for say the next two years and then have money problems and go to TU? As of right now you would loose access to all of the new areas as opposed to some one who purchased them in the Crown Store. I thing they need to figure out if you have been a Plus member for so many months you still get access to some of the new content. Not all of it. If a new area comes out the week before you go to the TU model then obviously they would loose access to that. But if you been a plus member for two years and go to TU then I think it would be fair that you still get access to areas that came out the year before.

I think there is a lot of potential for the game to get even better here. But there is also the potential for it to go wrong to. I think the most important point is for everyone to stay active on the forums here and voice any problems right away. Zenimax is constantly changing things based on the feed back we are giving them. And that is the one thing we can all do to help keep them honest.

Vellandora

Definitely sad to hear about this upcoming change(feel subscription is best model for a consistent dedicated player base), I enjoy this game and don't want to see it get ruined by bad decisions from the developers. And by "ruined" I mean turned into some form of pay-to-win that and most people would not enjoy/support. With that being said I will continue to play the game and see how it goes.

Thoughts on the future on ESO:

--As far as pay-to-win goes
It can mild to blatantly "If you spend money you're gonna win". For the "convenience" items, the stated potions and soul gems, as long as they are no better then what a player may find/make in-game the effect will likely be minimal. And as long as players CANNOT buy gear or weapons. Reason being even if the gear and weapons have the same stats it will create a rift between those who spend money and those who don't. As the players not spending money are now fighting an uphill battle against someone who just bought the best gear and has it right away. Worst case scenario of course being if gear bought in crown shop was better then what could be obtained in-game for free.

--For cosmetic items in crown shop
Cosmetics and vanity items such as mounts or costumes in the crown shop are fine, unless ZOS took out existing features in-game such as ability to dye gear from anyone not spending money. My only real concern here is I hope this doesn't mean all future additions that are cosmetic related are only offered in the crown shop, an example would be one time use item to change a characters body shape/features that you pick in creating the character. Or a barber to change hairstyle. A barber I would expect to be in-game and cost gold to use. Something such as getting to revisit the character creation to change body shape etc I would expect to see in the crown shop.

--For the DLC and buying it or getting free access as long as the player has a subscription going.

Joseph.f.kennedyb14_ESO wrote: »

As of right now you would loose access to all of the new areas as opposed to some one who purchased them in the Crown Store. I thing they need to figure out if you have been a Plus member for so many months you still get access to some of the new content. Not all of it. If a new area comes out the week before you go to the TU model then obviously they would loose access to that. But if you been a plus member for two years and go to TU then I think it would be fair that you still get access to areas that came out the year before.

You make a good point, I'm curious to see if it'll be cheaper to buy the DLC so it's always available and not have a subscription. Or keep a subscription going and after so long use those crowns to buy the DLC so it's permanent(then cancel the subscription upon purchasing the DLC).

Tarwin

In all honesty I don't really see much of a downside to this if you continue to pay monthly except perhaps a bit more Riff Raff running around and possibly a new bot invasion.

I am curious though. Will you be able to know if a player is a freebie player or subscribed? I'm envisioning Guilds not warming up to non subscribers due to the limit of numbers of players allowed in a guild.

Oc3anman

I originally posted this on a less appropriate forum.

Well, I have to say I was initially just horrified by this announcement. Now, with a little time to think about it, I believe the choice to go B2P was largely to appease the console market. The biggest issue with appeasement, in this case, is that TES appeals to a niche market. It's no fault of the developers that Skyrim became outrageously popular, but I think it is unrealistic to expect every TES game to sell so well. In my opinion, the devs were making the game they wanted to play, when they made TES games in the past (see Paradox Interactive), but the popularity of Skyrim has caused them to, perhaps, start considering the game everyone wants to play (see Electronic Arts). Well not only do TES games appeal to a niche market, but MMORPGs appeal to a niche market, so with TESO, the devs are aiming at a niche within a niche. Sure, all the Skyrim "fans" are going to wail about the subscription, but a MMORPG implies a commitment in time and (in many cases) money that the vast majority of gamers are unwilling to commit. This transition to a B2P system, however, feels somewhat like a betrayal to the niche within a niche.

Again, I imagine, more than (perhaps) disappointing sales and subscriptions (and I'll touch on that a little later), TESO went B2P to get the most out of the console release. Console players have the additional expense of their platforms' various premiums to play games online. It might be a lot to ask for a console gamer to pay a subscription, plus the online premium, and also pay for DLC/et cetera. I understand the move (all betrayal aside) from a simplified business standpoint.

I think the subscription wasn't the largest factor to dissuade sales. I have read several times that nearly 5 million players participated in the beta program. That's 5 million players who were theoretically interested in TESO, but in my opinion (though I couldn't possibly suggest a better way to stress test the servers), the beta was simply an atrocious product. I feel like a great many of the 5 million beta testers probably had the unjustified opinion that it was somehow a representation of the boxed product. I believe the beta did much more to hurt sales than any subscription price. The numbers I've read, though I admit I have no idea as to the reliability of these numbers (but would be quite interested in hearing the actual numbers from a ZOS employee) were 5 million beta tested, only about 1.25 million bought the game at launch, and about 775k have active subscriptions at the time of the B2P announcement. Again, there is no way to verify these figures are accurate whatsoever.

The niche within a niche created the best community it has ever been my pleasure to be apart of. The people who play the game want to be there so much they pay to be there. The mega server was an inspired thought as well. To put the PvXers with the RPers has truly made TESO a unique experience, in addition to being a very special game to begin with. The same can't be said for WoW. Even with their subscription fee, the community in WoW is overwhelmingly dominated by negative people. In my opinion, one of the reasons why TESO was such a unique community experience, is that the ERSB rating, the higher than average system requirements, and subscription fees kept it (by my estimation) a majority adult community. The worst community I have ever experienced is far and away the community for League of Legends, which, in all fairness is not a MMORPG, but still should stand as a warning for the type of player a game may attract when it has zero cost to play. I think, however, the League of Legends cash shop is a great model.

Which brings me to the crown shop. When I read about this, I wasn't /mad, I was just /disappointed. The trick is to surprise the players of TESO by not making a mess of this. The flood of children and teenagers after console release will be more than happy to buy ridiculous ornaments (please be sure to capitalize on major holidays), pets, and mounts. Embrace the micro transaction but please don't abuse it. I think, aside from cosmetics, appropriate crown store merchandise would be subscriber boosts, that one could buy by the day, week, or month, to grant a 10% bonus to XP, inspiration, gold acquisition etc. This could stack with the subscriber bonus as well. The things I'd prefer not to see include anything that can be crafted, or consumables that have better stats than crafted comparatives. Also please don't sell anything that has durability. Armor skins would be awesome, but armor itself would be devastating, in my opinion. The armor skins could even come with small bonuses for leveling purposes. Also, make the crown shop available by website, or from a merchant or building in the game. Limit the marketing to e-mails and login screens, please do not make the crown shop intrusive by adding an option to access it from the corner of your screen, or have a barrage of windows appear when you log into the game.

As of right now (in these early theoretical stages of implementation), I don't see any problems with the current ideas for the B2P model, but there is a lot of potential for harm here. I sincerely hope we don't lose the members of the community whom so endear this game to me. I sincerely hope that the game is not ruined by this transition. And I sincerely hope the game maintains enough subscribers that the devs don't feel compelled to offer P2W type advantages in the crown shop to bolster revenue. Thank you ZOS for finally coming out and telling us. Thank you to anyone who actually read this post!

Yours truly,
-Kruz gro-Gorgh

SainguinLibras

Just throwing my 2 cents in. But I unsubbed too. I wonder how many that is now? Enough to let ZOS know it truly screwed it's community? Maybe.

Either way, you all have fun with your cosmetic clown suits and pink unicorn mounts.

Oh and have fun never bothering with Alchemy again, cause ya know, those are cash shop now.

Seriously, why did I even pay for this? And how can I get my refund? I paid 15$ a month for a half broken game missing half of it's features. It feels real good. I mean it must, with all the fanboys in game taking this like it's holy gospel.

I really wanted this game to be great.

That's what ya get for wanting something real bad.

For now, I'm going back to The Secret World. It's developers are honest.

PS I honestly feel for all of you who ground out multiple V14s and paid for it. It's nice to know the B2P plebs won't ever know what this game USED to be, FOR 15$ A MONTH.

Mordhar

This is totally expected but still sad turn of events.

A year ago, when ESO still in beta, there was numerous discussions about chosen payment model.
People were concerned. ZOS repeatedly told us that “the game going to be P2P and it never going to change”.
Most of us understand that was a lie. At least those who seen other modern MMO and was not blinded by false promises about “this time everything would be different”.

There were even discussions about how much time it will take for ESO to go P2W. Most guesses were in range of 3-6 months. Game remained “genuine P2P” for almost a year, which is beyond most optimistic expectations.

Anyway, it was a good game. And I have extremely good time playing it while it lasted.
R.I.P. ESO, hail to the “tamriel unlimited”.

reften

infoub17_ESO22 wrote: »

Seems like a lot of folks don't get it. This game did not make enough money for Zenimax. It failed. Failed MMO's go to F2P, then they die out.

It's the natural progression of a company that did not commit to the end game at the beginning of the game.

The Zenimax team was the wrong choice. They are the x factor that failed. Bethesda chose unwisely and drank from the wrong chalice.

yup, Zenimax does not exist to provide us with the game we want, they exist to provide a game that makes them money.

Brunlea

If going B2P will bring in more people and revenue then fair enough. The Secret World seems to be doing OK with this.

If the game continues to improve i'm sure many people would subscribe.

Stonesthrow

DireKit wrote: »

Stonesthrow wrote: »

@DireKit‌

You seriously think that they were going to change their minds from yesterday because a few folks post in this thread?

You sir… you are unique in your optimism. /salute

Oh, and when you post in ALL bold, it loses it's effectiveness. Just saying.

@‌Stonesthrow

Sarcasm does not translate well over text, does it? Nor does gender.

We are female and We were being sarcastic, but points for being such a try-hard.

Just saying.

Sorry about that… and you are quite right.

So was I and had never heard, or been called, "try-hard" before, thanks.

ricku1967

@Dark_Dunmer, you said "Pots and Soul Gems are revenue sources for players... you are taking that stream away from them or at least diluting it... not very supportive of your player base" um, if you go back and listen. he said those items in the crown shop are no better than what a player can buy from a vender right now. the potions and gems made by the players are still going to be the strongest and of the highest quality in the game. How exactly is this going to take away revenue from the players when people can go to a vender right now and get potions and soul gems?? and no where did i hear him say the crown shop will have "experience boosters"...the experience boosts will go to the people still paying a sub fee. I could be wrong, but i have watched it twice now and never heard them say that the store will have experience boosters.

Davadin

So... Witcher 3 is coming out soon, guys! Rejoice!

Also, I'm partial with this B2P crap. But I suppose as long as they don't put up paywall on regions, I'm OK.

I don't think that's the case though.... considering there will be DLCs.... so sad that stuff like Craglorn or Armor Dye will become payable DLCs.....

Davadin

tedefumpb16_ESO wrote: »

Maybe it is worth that everyone gives his opinion, maybe not.
I can see the pros and cons in both subscription/no-subscription systems.
Both has their advantages, I guess.

But, the crown shop... No, really, this is a mistake.

Everybody is paying, or nobody is paying.
This is fair. Everybody is the same.
This makes the community of player consistent.
This does not encourage cleavage between groups of players.

But the crown shop... Come on.
Whatever you sell in there. Useful or useless stuff. Beautiful or ugly.
What are the advantages of this crown shop ?
What does it bring, other than cleavage ?

Money ? Subscription for everyone was fine then.

I feel like this crown shop is going to tear the game apart.
Two official categories of players, two official categories of content.
The players who pay, the players who don't.
The content you need to pay for, the content you don't need to pay for.

This really doesn't sound like a good idea to mix them in the same virtual environment.

How about DLC? I'm 100% more concerned with DLC rather than crown shop.

Go ahead let them buy soul gems and cosmetics... but, say, Imperial City comes out and there will be a cleavage (nice choice of word) between who has it and who doesn't?

That's bad. Like, REAL BAD.

"Hey guys wow AvA is so much fun! Yeah! Big raids!"
"OK, let's chase them to Imperial City!"
...then half the raid said "Ummm we don't have that DLC. Sorry."

Immersion out the window.
Fun out of the window.
Continuity out the window.

LtAscott

I have read all 14 pages of this post.
**** it.
**** you.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

ZOS_JasonLeavey wrote: »

This is the official discussion thread for the web article “Your Guide to ESO Plus™ Premium Membership.”

Find out more about the excellent in-game benefits that all ESO Plus members will enjoy in Tamriel Unlimited!

This is a disgusting money grab and I'll have no part of it. Goodbye ESO.

Dark_Dunmer

@ricku1967 - Might want to look at the reddit AMA reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2tfb48/welcome_to_the_eso_tamriel_unlimited_aua/
-
- but Store will now be a source of gems and pots for cash, no need to get gold to buy just spend real world cash, undercuts our game economy
- In the AMA on Reddit Paul Sage says " I will say openly that some people feel 'time-saving' items are buy-to-win such as being able to gain experience faster. But our perspective is that removing time barriers is something players want, without providing an unfair advantage in power." so it would appear they will be selling items to remove time barriers, and that, to me, sounds like xp boosters

Zebular

Dark_Dunmer wrote: »

@ricku1967 - Might want to look at the reddit AMA reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2tfb48/welcome_to_the_eso_tamriel_unlimited_aua/
-
- but Store will now be a source of gems and pots for cash, no need to get gold to buy just spend real world cash, undercuts our game economy
- In the AMA on Reddit Paul Sage says " I will say openly that some people feel 'time-saving' items are buy-to-win such as being able to gain experience faster. But our perspective is that removing time barriers is something players want, without providing an unfair advantage in power." so it would appear they will be selling items to remove time barriers, and that, to me, sounds like xp boosters

They said in the Twitch video that potions and gems in the Crown store will NOT be as good as what a player can craft and will be around the same, more or less, as ones obtained from drops and such. Since ones that drop, drop with random quality, there's times when dropped ones will be better than Crown ones, or not quite as good. Crown potions and gems will also scale to your level, but still won't be better than player crafted ones at level.

Dark_Dunmer

@Zebular I would say buying Pots and gems that scale as you level is better than buying ones that are static and that you will out-level. That is actually a pretty big advantage for store bought ones over ones made by fellow players.

hmmm The Pots will probably be less of an issue, in reality. The number that drop while leveling I found sufficient for my needs; unless they nerf the drop rate. As far as Tri-pots et. al. I only use those in Trials, DSA, and some vet dungeons. Otherwise, I just use regular drop single stat pots... but again, if the drop rate on those were to be nerfed, that would be a bit diabolical.

Gems on the other hand... if you could buy a batch of those that level with you, that is an advantage. I wouldn't bother buying gems from guild merchants as I level and go into PvP if I could get gems that level with me.

jmunkxb14_ESO

tedefumpb16_ESO wrote: »

Maybe it is worth that everyone gives his opinion, maybe not.
I can see the pros and cons in both subscription/no-subscription systems.
Both has their advantages, I guess.

But, the crown shop... No, really, this is a mistake.

Everybody is paying, or nobody is paying.
This is fair. Everybody is the same.
This makes the community of player consistent.
This does not encourage cleavage between groups of players.

But the crown shop... Come on.
Whatever you sell in there. Useful or useless stuff. Beautiful or ugly.
What are the advantages of this crown shop ?
What does it bring, other than cleavage ?

Money ? Subscription for everyone was fine then.

I feel like this crown shop is going to tear the game apart.
Two official categories of players, two official categories of content.
The players who pay, the players who don't.
The content you need to pay for, the content you don't need to pay for.

This really doesn't sound like a good idea to mix them in the same virtual environment.

*best Beavis and Butthead impression* heh heh he said cleavage

Threemoons

Oy Vey.

F2P is what DESTROYED Funcom's Conan world...it was an amazing community and a fantastic game...then came the real-cash item stores and F2P and desperate over-incentivizing to get new sub players onboard, essentially letting newbies quickly pop in at level 80.

I'd forgotten that I had auto-renew on for my sub, and just wound up paying them $99 by mistake, but I may yet go back to it for a bit.

I also pretty much dropped The Secret World to go play ESO, but now, I think I'll go back as it seems less spoiled by a F2P model and I have a lifetime sub.

Pretty sad though.

As others have said, this is going to destroy ESO the nanosecond that another MMORPG comes out with a better content update plan that actually engages people to keep playing.

I beta-tested this game and I'm sad to see it go F2P SOOOOO bloody soon.

jmunkxb14_ESO

I guess that I just don't understand what the big deal is, everyone here has been paying to play this game this far and this change is the one that is making people leave? Really there aren't many details out about it right now, other than there will be vanity options and weak potions/gems for sale in the shop, and the subbers will continue to get the DLC for free, plus a 10% bonus to xp and gold gain. Where is the downside to continue your subscription? The freeps will have to shell out extra cash for DLC, get no boosts and no free crowns. This seems kind of like the station cash system sony has for their games and it's working for them. Admittedly I haven't played Everquest or Eq2 for a while but the community didn't seem to get any worse while I was playing when they went f2p. I still think that having to buy the game before being able to play for free will deter a lot of the bad element from swarming down on ESO, but even if it doesn't, there are a lot of tools in place to clean up chat and spam. Anyways I'll stop here because I'm about to start rambling. One more thought, once everyone stops being so emotional and starts thinking about this change logically I hope they will realize that this change was probably needed.

tino.antoninieb17_ESO

I will keep playing till money gets in way of competition - and it will .
I will play as far as i consider that ESO gaming comunity is bareable and soon it will not be.
ZOS has one of weakest mangement teams i have saw in my entire life and i am in business for last 23 years.
They will make money coz some products desteny is to make money and in this case not coz of good management but in dispite of management.

DireKit

We will keep playing and paying a subscription to ride this out and see if this b2p model is truly not as bad as We suspect it will be, but up until now Zenimax and its employees have given us and no other customer any reason to trust or believe anything that they say so We suspect in spite of their claims to the contrary (since they also claimed they would stick with the subscription model come hell or high-water and that it would ensure us regular QUALITY updates, they have not and it has not) that this 'crowns shop' will become a p2w source for the game and in that case, We are out.

Not gonna play another Cryptic (Perfect World Entertainment) game where you can buy everything in-game with real money and trolls run rampant, ruining and destroying what little community may be left.

You, Zenimax.. you have a serious smear on your integrity that is your own design and what you do from hereon out will have an ever increasing impact on your reputation, which is already bloody and bruised in the eyes of many customers.

If regular QUALITY updates do not follow this change, We will also leave. This seems like as many have stated that it was planned far in advance and that Zenimax certainly seems to have intentionally lied to its player-base, that does not bode well given your already tattered reputation.

At this point you need to salvage what you have left and We genuinely believe the only way you can do that is by ensuring this 'crowns shop' is NOT p2w and that regular updates become a trend, actual MEANINGFUL updates that are NOT just random crap added into the 'crowns shop'.

We will add as well, if you ever go fully free to play We will also leave because the Community will become rapidly more toxic and infinitely more unbearable on a level of which many players probably can not even imagine. That is not hyperbole, that is experience and having seen it happen in numerous games.

Aerolin_Eltryss

This will be ok so long as ZOS remember they are dealing with fans of TES as their core market. Casual players will come and go but hardcore Bethesda TES fans will put in the time, effort and money.

Warning to ZOS - DO NOT EVER ALLOW the crown shop to sell:

- Armour items more powerful than a player can create
- Any item above standard quality
- Weapons more powerful than a player can create
- Enchantment/Potions/Food items more powerful than a player can create
- XP buffs
- Resources for crafting
- No traits on crown shop items

If the crown shop only sells base items (white colour text) up to level 45 I can't see a problem as you will still need to put in the time to win. Whether that time be spent investing in crafting or earning in game gold via loot and purchasing from player market.

DO NOT BECOME PAY TO WIN!

I will keep playing, and I will keep my subscription however as soon as I see a level 10 player acting like a twit and running around in purple/gold armour sets I'm gone.

I think the bethesda guys need to head over to ZOS and slap them around a bit!

Please, as a life long fan of TES I beg you - do not ruin this for us!

That is all.